Ladies - Why a foreign man?

[Excedryn]

especially those who go looking for arm candy (only care about her beauty)

In this particular phrase I mean to say that some men travel only to find someone with great physical beauty. They do not care about her family, her inner world, her culture, or the traditions which are special to the lady. These men think only of themselves. The lady is not a person with feelings to this kind of man, she is only a trophy.

I believe that in most cases the men who read this forum are gentlemen who enjoy travel to your country, who learn Russian words and phrases to understand and communicate, and who want to share their lives with a special lady. For example, look at the feelings expressed by Excedryn. Just from that one post he sounds to me like a very mature man who would cherish a beautiful lady. I can easily say the same compliments about men like ECR and many others.

Nessibelle, my sincere apology to you for not being more clear. Thanks to Tom, ECR and Excedryn for your excellent assistance.

Thank you for the "spot on" observation Mendy.  I have found out more about myself searching for that special lady than I definitely expected. Oh the magical world of "growing pains"  Of course, the more interesting part is I actually embrace it as opposed to dancing in denial. It is rather nice to know I am not a superficial individual. 

[mendeleyev]

Пожалуйста! (You're welcome) 

[Helen]

I am sure, that each person should have the right of a choice. Expansion of borders - that very well. I like to socialize as it helps me to understand life and other people better.
With the Internet the world has become increasingly small and I feel that my second half could also be looking for me. Now I just need to find him! :-)  I am willing to travel across any sea to find true love...
Maybe this is a dream too bold for reality. But failing to seek for such an ideal means I would be settling for mediocrity.

[fireeater]

I am sure, that each person should have the right of a choice. Expansion of borders - that very well. I like to socialize as it helps me to understand life and other people better.
With the Internet the world has become increasingly small and I feel that my second half could also be looking for me. Now I just need to find him! :-)  I am willing to travel across any sea to find true love...
Maybe this is a dream too bold for reality. But failing to seek for such an ideal means I would be settling for mediocrity.

Welcome to the forum Helen 

Your reasons given match my own thoughts. With the internet the world is a smaller place, and who knows where she may be located. 

[Helen]

Thanks, fireeater
interesting forum... mmm...
I have postponed job and I read! 
I too thought, why I have left in the Internet with this purpose...
I shall be repeated: It - Expansion of borders. Expansion of opportunities.

[fireeater]

Thanks, fireeater
interesting forum... mmm...
I have postponed job and I read! 
I too thought, why I have left in the Internet with this purpose...
I shall be repeated: It - Expansion of borders. Expansion of opportunities.

Expansion of borders. Expansion of opportunities is always a good reason.

But do read the forum, lots of information, and opportunties as well. 

But also ask questions or leave comments in an existing one, for others to read. Or start a new topic if your mind desires it.  So where in Russia do you live ? 

[man4995]

Oh well... For me personally the main reason is the "double standards policy" that exists in Russia for men and women.
Men are considered being first rate human beings, who are allowed to be self-sufficient.
Women are regarded as second rate creatues, for whom the only way to justify their presence on Earth is to find a husband (= master), serve him well and give him healthy sons.

Example from the real life \ people I know from a city with population of half a million, southern Russia:
- local oligarch, 34 y.o., never married, no kids, short and fat. Educational level: 8 years school. Considered being "завидный жених". Treated by society with respect.

- local lady, 33 y.o., divorced, 10 y.o. son, high position with state \ legislation, bought & renovated 4 bedroom apartment, earning money for herself \ her son \ her mother \ her grandmother; drives a car; goes to aerobic classes twice a week; manicure, pedicure, etc. - looks VERY attractive. University degree. What do people say about her? They pity her!! Because she is DIVORCED!! She did not wish to provide for one more useless eater - and our society blames her for that! "She could not keep her husband, what a bad luck..."

Women are supposed to "hunt" for men here, because our society can not accept an idea that a woman can be self-sufficient, too!

You can also add some statistics proving that at the similar positions women's salary is around 70% of men's salary, and if it goes about top managers \ directors' positions - only 40% from what a man would earn there.

I don't want to be treated as a "second rate". I don't wanna earn less than a proud dick bearer would earn at my position. I wanna live in a society which respects its members for their merits, not for their anatomy.

I also want to live in a warmer place with more sunshine than snow, with a more stable political & economical situation, with foreseeable future.
I want to be with a man who can treat me as an equal partner, with whom we can have equal rights, and share responsibilities for the sake of mutual prosperity.

Do you measure people by how they look? ... good standard for you, huh?
How high position in power/money they can get? ... good standard for you, huh?

so this guy chooses not to get married, good for him. I respect his choice and he has his peace...
and that lady ... good for her looking attractive, providing for herself and her family... at the same time, the guy above avoided children, so he doesn't have to work as hard as the lady, but the lady has to work hard, I feel very bad for her as her ex-husband should help her...

not sure what happened for her and her ex-husband, not sure who's fault it is, maybe both are at fault? but the guy above obviously makes no mistakes so far, so more respect is given to him...

I don't care how much money/power he/she can make.
Certainly divorces indicate "don't know how to avoid problems, unable to solve them, or don't want to solve them and hope it goes away by itself???" well, people should really blame both the lady and her ex-husband, BOTH!
and people see that guy has peace being single, good for him!

question for you... how can people put equal and the same standard for two different kinds of human being, men and women??? how can it be??
and how can TWO people, a man and a woman, make ONE decision??? how can it be??
how can two powers continually competing and have love at same time??
... maybe that's why the WEST men are sick and tired of women here wanting power/money above love...

in fact, most WEST women have their job/career/boss as their MASTERs(MASTERs above their men, women's liberation movement), and that MASTERs only wants her making money for them... ONLY MONEY/PRIDE, NO LOVE AT ALL!!!
the same for WEST men working for their MASTERs, then the question becomes...
... which master is better? working for love or working for money?

[BelleZeBoob]

Oh well... For me personally the main reason is the "double standards policy" that exists in Russia for men and women.

Men are considered being first rate human beings, who are allowed to be self-sufficient.

Women are regarded as second rate creatues, for whom the only way to justify their presence on Earth is to find a husband (= master), serve him well and give him healthy sons.

Example from the real life \ people I know from a city with population of half a million, southern Russia:

- local oligarch, 34 y.o., never married, no kids, short and fat. Educational level: 8 years school. Considered being "завидный жених". Treated by society with respect.

- local lady, 33 y.o., divorced, 10 y.o. son, high position with state \ legislation, bought & renovated 4 bedroom apartment, earning money for herself \ her son \ her mother \ her grandmother; drives a car; goes to aerobic classes twice a week; manicure, pedicure, etc. - looks VERY attractive. University degree. What do people say about her? They pity her!! Because she is DIVORCED!! She did not wish to provide for one more useless eater - and our society blames her for that! "She could not keep her husband, what a bad luck..."

Women are supposed to "hunt" for men here, because our society can not accept an idea that a woman can be self-sufficient, too!

You can also add some statistics proving that at the similar positions women's salary is around 70% of men's salary, and if it goes about top managers \ directors' positions - only 40% from what a man would earn there.

I don't want to be treated as a "second rate". I don't wanna earn less than a proud dick bearer would earn at my position. I wanna live in a society which respects its members for their merits, not for their anatomy.

I also want to live in a warmer place with more sunshine than snow, with a more stable political & economical situation, with foreseeable future.

I want to be with a man who can treat me as an equal partner, with whom we can have equal rights, and share responsibilities for the sake of mutual prosperity.

By and large, the last time I faced the mentality described by Olga was some 20 years ago, or I watched Russian movies that emphazise the point that the single woman is a second rate human being. I just don't see this around me any more. Bu tit may be my personal experience.

I agree with Olga that Russian women hunt men. To get a man, you most likely have to win him over from another woman. However I think that they do it not because women feel that they having a man is a must in their lives but because eligible and available men are scarce in Russia, and as a result of specific dating dymanic in the country.

[Nessibelle]

not sure what happened for her and her ex-husband, not sure who's fault it is, maybe both are at fault? but the guy above obviously makes no mistakes so far, so more respect is given to him...

Only those don't make mistakes who doesn't do anything at all - doesn't go to school, for example

Have you ever stopped to think that maybe one's divorce is not one's fault but one's service?
You should mind that people in FSU marry very early, women especially for they considered to be bearing machines and can provide men with healthiest children in the age of 18-28. So, when a woman marries almost at her teen age, she continues to develop her personality and brain capacity, so that in the age of 25-30 she can overgrow the relationship with her husband. Why should she/they/whoever be blamed for finding the best way out?
Just a thought.

[alenika]

not sure what happened for her and her ex-husband, not sure who's fault it is, maybe both are at fault? but the guy above obviously makes no mistakes so far, so more respect is given to him...

Only those don't make mistakes who doesn't do anything at all - doesn't go to school, for example

Yes, one can live all life not taking any responsibility and thefore making no mistakes. No mistakes are not always a plus, it can mean permanent avoiding of any responsibility.

[BelleZeBoob]

Have you ever stopped to think that maybe one's divorce is not one's fault but one's service?
You should mind that people in FSU marry very early, women especially for they considered to be bearing machines and can provide men with healthiest children in the age of 18-28. So, when a woman marries almost at her teen age, she continues to develop her personality and brain capacity, so that in the age of 25-30 she can overgrow the relationship with her husband. Why should she/they/whoever be blamed for finding the best way out?

Just a thought.

Very much agree! Marriage is made to make the life of two people even better. If the union stops making people happy, why should they keep it? A divorce may be a blessing in some cases.

[sparky114]

Have you ever stopped to think that maybe one's divorce is not one's fault but one's service?
You should mind that people in FSU marry very early, women especially for they considered to be bearing machines and can provide men with healthiest children in the age of 18-28. So, when a woman marries almost at her teen age, she continues to develop her personality and brain capacity, so that in the age of 25-30 she can overgrow the relationship with her husband. Why should she/they/whoever be blamed for finding the best way out?

Just a thought.

Very much agree! Marriage is made to make the life of two people even better. If the union stops making people happy, why should they keep it? A divorce may be a blessing in some cases.

Well said that lady 

Divorce for me and my Ex wife was the best thing for both our health and sanity 

And our two children are not maladjusted or distubed by it, they like the life they have now with two families and they were only 6 and 3 when we split.

So I agree Belle it was the correct thing for the both of us to do.

Mark

[Boris]

Have you ever stopped to think that maybe one's divorce is not one's fault but one's service?
You should mind that people in FSU marry very early, women especially for they considered to be bearing machines and can provide men with healthiest children in the age of 18-28. So, when a woman marries almost at her teen age, she continues to develop her personality and brain capacity, so that in the age of 25-30 she can overgrow the relationship with her husband. Why should she/they/whoever be blamed for finding the best way out?

Just a thought.

Very much agree! Marriage is made to make the life of two people even better. If the union stops making people happy, why should they keep it? A divorce may be a blessing in some cases.

Yes, I agree that in some cases divorce is for the best. But I fear now it is becoming an excuse to avoid normal difficulties that come up in a marriage. It is too easy to walk away sometimes.

[Excedryn]

Have you ever stopped to think that maybe one's divorce is not one's fault but one's service?
You should mind that people in FSU marry very early, women especially for they considered to be bearing machines and can provide men with healthiest children in the age of 18-28. So, when a woman marries almost at her teen age, she continues to develop her personality and brain capacity, so that in the age of 25-30 she can overgrow the relationship with her husband. Why should she/they/whoever be blamed for finding the best way out?

Just a thought.

Very much agree! Marriage is made to make the life of two people even better. If the union stops making people happy, why should they keep it? A divorce may be a blessing in some cases.

Yes, I agree that in some cases divorce is for the best. But I fear now it is becoming an excuse to avoid normal difficulties that come up in a marriage. It is too easy to walk away sometimes.

I have to agree with you there, Boris. A lot of issues marraiges see can be worked on but I have seen plenty of couples where no effort is given to do that on either side of the coin and husband and/or wife opted for the "easy" way out. I think if I wanted a marraige that was perfect in the aspect that it didn't require work when issues came up I could marry an invalid in a rest home with 24/7 care. (Very radical way to view it but, meh...)

[Ada]

Have you ever stopped to think that maybe one's divorce is not one's fault but one's service?
You should mind that people in FSU marry very early, women especially for they considered to be bearing machines and can provide men with healthiest children in the age of 18-28. So, when a woman marries almost at her teen age, she continues to develop her personality and brain capacity, so that in the age of 25-30 she can overgrow the relationship with her husband. Why should she/they/whoever be blamed for finding the best way out?

Just a thought.

Very much agree! Marriage is made to make the life of two people even better. If the union stops making people happy, why should they keep it? A divorce may be a blessing in some cases.

Yes, I agree that in some cases divorce is for the best. But I fear now it is becoming an excuse to avoid normal difficulties that come up in a marriage. It is too easy to walk away sometimes.

It depends on what you understand by normal difficulties, every day issues, differences of opinion, yes, those can be overcome. But when it comes to general attitude towards the one supposed to be your partner, or infidelity, that is a more complicated matter 

[Excedryn]

I think general attitude can actually be worked on assuming both parties are wanting that. Infidelty...evil word and an absolutely unforgivable offense in my book.

[mirror]

I like a BIG body BOYS!  especially americans boys.  But if I find a big boy elsewhere then it is ok too.

[2tallbill]

He meant that your statement contained some important information, that many men could learn something from it and that some men could learn more than others. 

Thanks. But why

especially those who go looking for arm candy (only care about her beauty)

?

I think that Mendy is mixing up his phrases a little bit.

1. Arm trophy: Gorgeous woman to parade around with on ones arm.
2. Eye candy: a woman so beautiful to be like candy for the eyes.

Sometimes I mix various common phrases myself for humor, I am not
sure if this was Mendy's intention or not.

Does a bear sh!t in the woods?
Obviously they do where else would they go

Is the Pope a Catholic?
obviously he is the head of the Catholic Church.

These are both common phrases to exclaim that something is obviously true.

So to mix them I say
"Does the Pope sh!t in the woods?"

Humor is the most difficult type of communication between languages and cultures,
IMHO and I seriously doubt that this humor would work in the FSU but it will
get a smile here.

[Olga_Mouse]

Do you measure people by how they look? ... good standard for you, huh?

How high position in power/money they can get? ... good standard for you, huh?

Man4995, I am not MEASURING anybody in my post - just describing 2 people I know, and including their position "in power \  money" to make the picture complete.

What I wanted to emphasis is the way they are regarded by the local society: he - with respect, she - with pity! Though, IMO, she deserves respect much more than he does.

[WestCoast]

Do you measure people by how they look? ... good standard for you, huh?

How high position in power/money they can get? ... good standard for you, huh?

Man4995, I am not MEASURING anybody in my post - just describing 2 people I know, and including their position "in power \  money" to make the picture complete.

What I wanted to emphasis is the way they are regarded by the local society: he - with respect, she - with pity! Though, IMO, she deserves respect much more than he does.

Olga, just following this quote back to one of your posts from last year where you state that you want to live somewhere that is warmer with less snow. Pardon me for being a little blunt but instead of looking for a foreign husband why not just immigrate yourself?  You're a smart, educated and well- travelled woman who speaks languages other than Russian.  You have frequent contact with foreigners, so you should have minimal trouble integrating into French, Italian or Spanish culture. 

Your posts have mentioned trips to other parts of Europe and you deal with foreigners and presumably foreign companies, so you have the opportunity to make contacts in business in other parts of Europe and secure employment in these areas.  The TV news and online news are full of stories of FSU residents living and working in Europe so it must be possible to  move from Russia to Europe with minimal problems.

There have been posts on this forum and other forums dealing with the process of immigrating to countries in Europe.  Any information that you need can probably be found on the Internet and I assume that forum members here would provide help in finding information if needed.  In some of your previous posts you've been more than blunt when giving your opinion of some Russian and non-Russian men, so why not immigrate yourself instead of waiting for a man to assist you?

[WestCoast]

Do you measure people by how they look? ... good standard for you, huh?

How high position in power/money they can get? ... good standard for you, huh?

Man4995, I am not MEASURING anybody in my post - just describing 2 people I know, and including their position "in power \  money" to make the picture complete.

What I wanted to emphasis is the way they are regarded by the local society: he - with respect, she - with pity! Though, IMO, she deserves respect much more than he does.

Olga, just following this quote back to one of your posts from last year where you state that you want to live somewhere that is warmer with less snow. Pardon me for being a little blunt but instead of looking for a foreign husband why not just immigrate yourself?  You're a smart, educated and well- travelled woman who speaks languages other than Russian.  You have frequent contact with foreigners, so you should have minimal trouble integrating into French, Italian or Spanish culture. 

Your posts have mentioned trips to other parts of Europe and you deal with foreigners and presumably foreign companies, so you have the opportunity to make contacts in business in other parts of Europe and secure employment in these areas.  The TV news and online news are full of stories of FSU residents living and working in Europe so it must be possible to  move from Russia to Europe with minimal problems.

There have been posts on this forum and other forums dealing with the process of immigrating to countries in Europe.  Any information that you need can probably be found on the Internet and I assume that forum members here would provide help in finding information if needed.  In some of your previous posts you've been more than blunt when giving your opinion of some Russian and non-Russian men, so why not immigrate yourself instead of waiting for a man to assist you?

Uh-Oh. 

Barry she already told me that she hates the cold and it's forecast to be quite cold in Vancouver for the next few weeks.  So I think that I'm safe.

[BelleZeBoob]

Do you measure people by how they look? ... good standard for you, huh?

How high position in power/money they can get? ... good standard for you, huh?

Man4995, I am not MEASURING anybody in my post - just describing 2 people I know, and including their position "in power \  money" to make the picture complete.

What I wanted to emphasis is the way they are regarded by the local society: he - with respect, she - with pity! Though, IMO, she deserves respect much more than he does.

Olga, just following this quote back to one of your posts from last year where you state that you want to live somewhere that is warmer with less snow. Pardon me for being a little blunt but instead of looking for a foreign husband why not just immigrate yourself?  You're a smart, educated and well- travelled woman who speaks languages other than Russian.  You have frequent contact with foreigners, so you should have minimal trouble integrating into French, Italian or Spanish culture. 

Your posts have mentioned trips to other parts of Europe and you deal with foreigners and presumably foreign companies, so you have the opportunity to make contacts in business in other parts of Europe and secure employment in these areas.  The TV news and online news are full of stories of FSU residents living and working in Europe so it must be possible to  move from Russia to Europe with minimal problems.

There have been posts on this forum and other forums dealing with the process of immigrating to countries in Europe.  Any information that you need can probably be found on the Internet and I assume that forum members here would provide help in finding information if needed.  In some of your previous posts you've been more than blunt when giving your opinion of some Russian and non-Russian men, so why not immigrate yourself instead of waiting for a man to assist you?

Right on, West Coast! Boris, why Uh-Oh?

But nevertheless, immigration may not always be possible in the countries of choice. Positively, I think that Olga has already explored this possibility, and so far she did not find an acceptable way to immigrate.

It is one thing to be well travelled and work in foreign countries temporarily, but it is completely another thing to immigrate. Developed countries willingly open their doors to tourists, interns and secondee expats, because they bring money into countries and thus move the ecomony, assisting the country in maintaining their high level of ecomony.

When the same person files for permanent residency, the accepting country starts all possible scrutiny about the applicant, because it is clear that if the aspiring immigrant will not be able to establish herself ecomonically in the new country, it becomes a public charge and will burden the local system of social security, what is often the case

Same story about finding a job abroad when being in Russia. I used to work for multinationals who has internal policies that promote international rotation of employees. It has my immediate interest, but no matter how persistent was I in offering my candidacy for rotation, I was out of luck. It is not as easy to find a job from abroad.

as far as I can remember, Olga would be interested in southern European countries. That means facing the EU immigration rules. To my knowledge, the EU immigration policies are rather strict, and would require more efforts than, for instance, immigration to Canada.

[WestCoast]

Do you measure people by how they look? ... good standard for you, huh?

How high position in power/money they can get? ... good standard for you, huh?

Man4995, I am not MEASURING anybody in my post - just describing 2 people I know, and including their position "in power \  money" to make the picture complete.

What I wanted to emphasis is the way they are regarded by the local society: he - with respect, she - with pity! Though, IMO, she deserves respect much more than he does.

Olga, just following this quote back to one of your posts from last year where you state that you want to live somewhere that is warmer with less snow. Pardon me for being a little blunt but instead of looking for a foreign husband why not just immigrate yourself?  You're a smart, educated and well- travelled woman who speaks languages other than Russian.  You have frequent contact with foreigners, so you should have minimal trouble integrating into French, Italian or Spanish culture. 

Your posts have mentioned trips to other parts of Europe and you deal with foreigners and presumably foreign companies, so you have the opportunity to make contacts in business in other parts of Europe and secure employment in these areas.  The TV news and online news are full of stories of FSU residents living and working in Europe so it must be possible to  move from Russia to Europe with minimal problems.

There have been posts on this forum and other forums dealing with the process of immigrating to countries in Europe.  Any information that you need can probably be found on the Internet and I assume that forum members here would provide help in finding information if needed.  In some of your previous posts you've been more than blunt when giving your opinion of some Russian and non-Russian men, so why not immigrate yourself instead of waiting for a man to assist you?

Right on, West Coast! Boris, why Uh-Oh?

But nevertheless, immigration may not always be possible in the countries of choice. Positively, I think that Olga has already explored this possibility, and so far she did not find an acceptable way to immigrate.

It is one thing to be well travelled and work in foreign countries temporarily, but it is completely another thing to immigrate. Developed countries willingly open their doors to tourists, interns and secondee expats, because they bring money into countries and thus move the ecomony, assisting the country in maintaining their high level of ecomony.

When the same person files for permanent residency, the accepting country starts all possible scrutiny about the applicant, because it is clear that if the aspiring immigrant will not be able to establish herself ecomonically in the new country, it becomes a public charge and will burden the local system of social security, what is often the case

Same story about finding a job abroad when being in Russia. I used to work for multinationals who has internal policies that promote international rotation of employees. It has my immediate interest, but no matter how persistent was I in offering my candidacy for rotation, I was out of luck. It is not as easy to find a job from abroad.

as far as I can remember, Olga would be interested in southern European countries. That means facing the EU immigration rules. To my knowledge, the EU immigration policies are rather strict, and would require more efforts than, for instance, immigration to Canada.

Belle I've seen a number of programs on TV and online articles about migration of eastern Europeans (Russian, Ukrainians, Bulgarians etc) to countries in Europe such as Spain, Portugal and France.  These programs were about legal migration and dealt with their adjustment to life in their new country.  I mean no insult to Olga, she has always struck me as a smart woman so if a woman from St. Petersburg can move to Spain and make a life for herself I'm sure Olga can.   

Perhaps now with the current economic climate if might be more difficult but surely 2-3 years ago when economic times were great it would have been far easier.  Perhaps Olga could do some prep work now for moving in the near future.

[BelleZeBoob]

WestCoast, there are really many migrants into EU countries, but the state of things is that an independent immigration - I mean, with no family sponsorship, no job offers, no refuge seeking - should be rather restricted in the EU countries.

From the migrants that you mentioned, what is the percentage of the independent migrants?

Unlike Canada, EU does not need bodies, and is relatively closed to influx of new people.

Or may be Olga Mouse could share with us some ways of immigrating to the EU independently? Just curious.

[WestCoast]

WestCoast, there are really many migrants into EU countries, but the state of things is that an independent immigration - I mean, with no family sponsorship, no job offers, no refuge seeking - should be rather restricted in the EU countries.

From the migrants that you mentioned, what is the percentage of the independent migrants?

Unlike Canada, EU does not need bodies, and is relatively closed to influx of new people.

Or may be Olga Mouse could share with us some ways of immigrating to the EU independently? Just curious.

Unfortunately the programs did not go into details about the actual numbers but they did say the migration was legal.  When I saw one particular program, about February 2008, it said that many Russians had immigrated to Spain.  As would be expected most were families, Russian husbands and wives plus children, some of course were family sponsorships but there were also a number of single men and women. 

The women seemed to have jobs in occupations that tend to be typically female, nurses, child care, cooking, secretarial, administrative, etc. If the programs mentioned how the immigration process worked in these countries I don't remember but with all the forums available on the Internet I'm sure the information exists somewhere.