Ladies - Why a foreign man?

[Manny]

We hear 3000 reasons why men look to the FSU, but to the ladies here, why a foreign man?

We hear respect issues, drink issues and 'not serious' issues. Cynics suggest its all about the new country and the money.

Can we hear it direct from you please? Why a foreign man?

[mirror]

Why a foreign man?

It is not obvious.
To have a big choice is important.  What I see the most of foreign men speculates with their living abroad position. 

[alenika]

Can we hear it direct from you please? Why a foreign man?

It just happened this way. Maybe because I prefer internet communication to real one on initial stages and prefer to talk in english - this way I can  easier express myself and can somehow excuse my writing style  I will not add romantic comments about love and so on but they do matter too 
But generally I think that there if only one excuse for marrying someone from far - it's some really strong special feelings to each other. otherwise I don't understand why normal man and woman would cause so serious changes to their lives and be ready to overcome all the difficulties of international marriage.

[Olga_Mouse]

Oh well... For me personally the main reason is the "double standards policy" that exists in Russia for men and women.

Men are considered being first rate human beings, who are allowed to be self-sufficient.

Women are regarded as second rate creatues, for whom the only way to justify their presence on Earth is to find a husband (= master), serve him well and give him healthy sons.

Example from the real life \ people I know from a city with population of half a million, southern Russia:

- local oligarch, 34 y.o., never married, no kids, short and fat. Educational level: 8 years school. Considered being "завидный жених". Treated by society with respect.

- local lady, 33 y.o., divorced, 10 y.o. son, high position with state \ legislation, bought & renovated 4 bedroom apartment, earning money for herself \ her son \ her mother \ her grandmother; drives a car; goes to aerobic classes twice a week; manicure, pedicure, etc. - looks VERY attractive. University degree. What do people say about her? They pity her!! Because she is DIVORCED!! She did not wish to provide for one more useless eater - and our society blames her for that! "She could not keep her husband, what a bad luck..."

Women are supposed to "hunt" for men here, because our society can not accept an idea that a woman can be self-sufficient, too!

You can also add some statistics proving that at the similar positions women's salary is around 70% of men's salary, and if it goes about top managers \ directors' positions - only 40% from what a man would earn there.

I don't want to be treated as a "second rate". I don't wanna earn less than a proud dick bearer would earn at my position. I wanna live in a society which respects its members for their merits, not for their anatomy.

I also want to live in a warmer place with more sunshine than snow, with a more stable political & economical situation, with foreseeable future.

I want to be with a man who can treat me as an equal partner, with whom we can have equal rights, and share responsibilities for the sake of mutual prosperity.

[Ladagirl]

Why a foreign man?

I am sure you know a lot of stories about the many reasons why some women prefer foreign men to local men and why women prefer to change their country and marry foreign men. Some stories are because of love, some are because of the money or a better lifestyle, and some just because they want to take a free adventure abroad.

For me it was not because he is foreign, not because of his country and it was not important where my partner lived. For me it was not important if he was a local or foreign man. I was happy, very positive and optimistic in Russia and I thought I would be happy abroad also.

Some Russian men, like some foreign men, do want be married, have a strong family, and want to love and be loved. For me, abroad was just an option I considered, not a firm choice. I always felt I would live abroad since I was a teenager. I travelled as a tourist all over Europe; Europe was not unfamiliar for me. The country was not important for me, more important the man.

Fortunately, I am very lucky, I found my man, and his country now is my country. My optimistic view helped me very much with my adaptation, as I am an optimist by nature. My knowledge and education as a Psychologist has helped me very much with my adaptation also.

[Anastassia]

Well, for me it is a little bit of everything that was mentioned here.

I was looking for the whole package and found him in the US.

I hate all the vices that Russian men possess so I started looking abroad.

Also, yes, stable financial situation is very important to me too.

I felt that i needed to keep practicing my English, and that means direct communication with foreigners.

I was raised in the family of professional interpreters who worked abroad lots of times. I was surrounded by English since my childhood.

I absolutely hate Russian music and this music culture that comes with it. When I was a little girl I was exposed to Pink Floyd, ABBA, Rolling Stones and Beatles.

I was pretty comfortable living in Moscow, had a rewarding job and things like that. So finding a man of my dreams was the only problem for me on Russian turf so to speak.

Right now my home is here in the US and I feel like a total foreigner in Moscow. Scary and uncomfortable. Bare in mind that my mom married an American too and we are together now. I feel whole and very happy. The only thing i miss is my friends, but lots of them are in Europe...

[Cestmoi]

The following opinion is only my, and may be not representative of others.

so the reasons why women start looking for foreign man and not for man in the home country:

1. For younger girls - adventure. Meeting a foreigner is different than meeting a local guy.

2. For women who decided to use the help of marriage agencies - in most cases normal FSU men do not post their profiles in marriage agencies websites. Those who post - are not really appealing. Women trust foreign marriage agencies more. Women believe they can meet better men via help of foreign MOB business.
Traditionally in FSU the marriage agencies (there were special radio stations, and newspaper ads) service was used by male criminals who were serving their sentense and were looking for a female pen-pal to fantasise about family life while reading her letters in the cell. Other males were either old or unattractive (physically or socially). This is very untrue that all men are bad in FSU. This is more true that FSU men who use marriage agencies are worse than country average.

3. It is relatively hard for a woman with kid to marry locally. They hope foreign men will welcome their children.

4. Financial stability - another myth. Women believe that they will find a man who, since he lives in richer country and is relatively more well-off than woman is, will be eager to support her and will not require her to work if she can't find good job. Yes, this is a tradition in patriarchic societies that man is a financial provider in the family. 

5. Ability to live in a better country - many women do not realize that USA and EU are not lands of milk and honey. Grass always looks greener on the other side of a fence.
For some women, who grown in families dissatisfied with Communist regime, the West is associated with freedom - of choice, speech, media, freedom to choose favorite music (like Jazz, or Rolling Stones which were not very legal in FSU) and to be able to embrace the consumer's society extras - after growing up in the FSU society where looking different was not welcomed, and product variety was low/limited. (Now FSU is VERY different from old times. Everything is available for these people who have money.)
Probably fascination with the West phenomenon is similar to "California Dream" created by Hollywood movie industry - "Californian weather is always sunny and warm, easy to earn good money, glamorous lifestyle, all women are hot and pretty." Many FSU women imagine all US as one big Venice Beach and in some places - a little bit of Manhattan.

6. Woman in MOB scene want to find a man who will solve her problems and give her what she wants, while she will give this man her love and care.

7. Illusion of having many admirers - when to some woman 5 men write nice letters and show interest, woman may think she is attractive and special, the feeling which she lacks in harsh reality. She does not realize that each of these men writes letters to 50 other women and that he has a list of "top 5 - Plan A, meet on next trip", "top 10 - maybe call, plan B" and "other" or "maybe".

8. Find a man who won't cheat, wont' drink, will love her and her children, will be generous, not poor, clever, ambitious, will never want to divorce her. etc. Women want this not because they can't find these male qualities in FSU. This is just a typical list of expectations that woman wants to see in her future husband.

9. again, illusion - since women know little about other countries, and have limited communication with foreign men - they want to think and tend to think that foreign men are better than these men in fact are. FSU women are too optimistic and very romantic.

10. "Modern FSU women" have heard many times about feminist wave in the West, and they think  that both men and women have same rights in the West, and also believe (wrongly) that western men like/admire/appreciate/love/welcome feminist women.

11. Non-feminist FSU women believe that western men are tired with feminist women and only FSU traditional women can save the west from population crisis (low birth-rate).

As may be seen from my short list above - reasons are different for different women. There may be many many more of other reasons.


The reasons why women do go abroad are different. Usually, as Alenika remarked - the reason is that woman gets very special feelings for a particular man.

As you may see, i do not put in the list "low quality of life in FSU" or "bad FSU men" - I believe both statements are wrong. Bad or good people can be found everywhere.

I would partially agree with Olga_Mouse about double standards for males-females in FSU. But I would not be so optimistic about West, research shows that even in the West women are paid less than males. Also, Olga, you know that russian people may "show pity" when they are jealous of others' success, so if I were this woman - with great job, wonderful son, own property, and good income - i would not care at all what some gossipers say. Let gossipers put their pity on their morning croissant and eat it with morning coffee. I think if you will move to European country you will be treated as "different rate" (i would not necessarily say second-rate) than country nationals. You are wise woman Olga, don't be so naive. If you can't feel comfortable about how your neighbors treat you at home - how can you feel comfortable abroad?
But yes, there are double standards, not every day, not always, and sometimes women provoke them. 

[Zmejka]

I always took internet as one more way to broaden your search. Before placing my ad on international dating sites i used local dating sites and met a few local guys there - at one point i got bored with it and dropped it. And yes, i had difficulty to meet guys just straight somewhere, i'm in general quite shy, so most meeting happened if my girlfriends orginised them - or i met somebody in the University for example.
At one point i decided to place my ad on the international dating sites - at that moment it was more for fun for me and was just exciting to get letters and reply in foreign language. I was 21 then. I didn't deceive anyone and didn't place "marriage" as my goal in my ad. I didn't think what will happen in the future, as i got tired at one point with local internet dating may be with time i would get have tired from the internation one and would have just stopped. But i met a nice guy and we decided to go further. Why not, i thought, why to wait for someone local and establish relationships while someone far away is aready found - so quickly by luck - and we have much in common? So we met and now i'm so much thankful that once we both decided to search online.

[BelleZeBoob]

I just have been asked this question again. May I paste my thoughts on this topic that I wrote in the other site some time ago.

I think it is about availability and quality of Russian men. Below are my comments on both.

Scarcity

Russia used to be a patriarchal society where men used to play more significant role than women. The Soviet history added to this by destroying the old Russian nobility and merchants and focusing on hard manual laborers. For Russian people, life became a lot harder, only the strongest could survive. Therefore, one needed either to be strong, or to have a strong one by their side. Men became a definite commodity.

In a Russian family, boys used to be more valued than girls with the hope that they grow to family providers. The girls were nevertheless regarded as a more comfortable family asset, less risky but potentially less profitable. Since the life was hard, being a single woman was a way to poverty.

As people already said, Russians typically marry between 20-25 years. After they reach 18, the dating fever is high. The best of the best catches are usually taken till they reach 25-28 years old. This is especially true for the men. The men are commodities in Russia, not the women. If a young stud is good, he is likely to be taken early, unless some particular reason.

For a young woman things are a bit different. Even if she is beautiful, kind and promising home keeper, she may well stay single for a long time. A single quality woman in Russia would mean that she did not find a suitable match yet. A single quality man in Russia would create excitement, competition and big female fuss around him.

When Russian women say ‘there is no men around’, they mean ‘there is no suitable men around’. The male marriage material is scarce, not the men as such. The statistics shows equal numbers of both genders.

If we move the age scale a bit forward, we will see that starting from 35-40 years of life Russian men begin either to loose a lot in their quality of looks, health and attitude, or to dye off. Now tell me what age group prevails among men in the online dating company who target Russian women? Exactly this one, 40 +.

Hope that explains a bit on the scarcity issue.

This and the respective competition among women resulted in extremely high requirements for women in Russia. That’s why Russian women put a lot of efforts to look their best. Russian men set the beauty bar very, very high. Men of all ages prefer women 20-25 years old, please no older. They tend to think that after 25 years old a woman is garbage. I seldom see a Western man having same thinking.
 
Quality

You see there is a big disparity in quality of men and women in Russia. Mother nature made the men less capable to endure a permanently hard life. It looks like the life in Russia has made a heavy impact on Russian men. Until some 25 years of life, they seem to have a somehow positive attitude; they are alluring and having fun. This age group does hardly differ from their Western peers.

With the time however, Russian men quickly and drastically loose in quality. This is especially to notice at high school meetings. I barely recognize my former classmates after 15-20 years of finishing school. Where are all their sparks and laughs gone?

Russian men don’t smile. They wear super sober, even grumpy faces. The female instincts don’t like it at all. I have seen and had enough soberness. I want to enjoy life.

Their way of dress leaves a lot to be desired. Many try to groom and to look good, but…somehow something is missing in the whole picture. They struggle at being nice and making others feel good. Russian men used to live in far from decent, even humiliating conditions. This made a negative impact on their personality.

To put it short, Russian men look like life has been beaten out of them. Our instincts assume the appearance reflects the inner world.

Here is one big advantage of Western men over the Russian ones. Even in their 40s and 50s, they hardly loose in quality. Many even gain.

RM vs WM

In early 1990es I jobbed as interpreter in a joint venture with many Europeans, mostly German men. The difference between Russians and Westerners was apparent. The latter had a truly positive demeanor. They were challenging. Interesting. Sparkling. Optimistics. Even a few business problems did not mean disaster for them. To me they look like people who used to live a decent life.
Needless to say, German and Dutch soon discovered the local women, and a chain of divorces followed on both sides.  Even the married expats divorced and married a few Russian women colleagues. 

All conditions being equal, I'd prefer a Russian man. But they are not equal, not at all.

[vox11]

When Russian women say ‘there is no men around’, they mean ‘there is no suitable men around’.

So if 'suitable' is 'earning at least $x0,000 / year'  there are for sure more suitable men abroad.

[MiniGirl]

As for me, i am looking for englishspeaker, coz english sounds very very sexy. 

[babybaby]

  By our culture years before woman was always couple steps down comparing with man. Now it seems that Russian and Ukranian men treatment allows very easy to make womens life difficult . It is lots of drinking, easy to beat to say terible words to think that if man taking care of family that he is cloth to god and women have to sit and be happy that she is at least taken care of. If woman independent, man feeling like weak cat and it is sad picture. I was married russian man and know lots of men around ( my friends boyfriends) and can say that there are not much happiness for woman. Not much respect to women like to personality. Reach men spoiled by very young girls and this girls sometimes ready to everything to be next to such a men. For me it is more that enough reasons why I looked for the man from other country and want to tell that in cases I know it is really huge diferens and positive feelings.
But this is our women nature to love and to take care of husband never mind of treatment and other things. That is why foreighn men feeling interests to our girls. They seems to be little different. Lots of my friends telling that they would not find a man from other country because of being scared of what can happen, so better not very sweet but life with our men

[Lisalane]

Yes,The Foreign Man is handsome and they so money,And another thing is that they are very sexy to enjoy a unknown person.How will they and how is he doing.........




If I am doing anything false or any bad comment then cut it.
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[Nessibelle]

The reasons why I am looking for a foreign man have already been mentioned above. Men in Russia often consider women to be second-rate beings, but in Kazakstan the situation is much more awful!! I have a friend who can't find a man here, because she is not a virgin in her 26.
And yes, I need a man of about 35-45, I want my future husband to be a big boy, but almost all the men older than 30 are married, and 90% of those who are still single are not to anyone's interest at all.
If I needed just money, I could easily find a married 50-55 y.o. man and become his mistress. He would sometimes visit me and of course pay my bills. It's a wide-spread practice here. But I don't want to be a mistress, I want to have a family, to love and to be loved.
But still there are some good men here, and if I meet one, I would give up looking for anyone anywhere.

[mendeleyev]

Nessibelle, this one statement is something many guys, especially those who go looking for arm candy (only care about her beauty), need to see from a lady.

But still there are some good men here, and if I meet one, I would give up looking for anyone anywhere.

[Nessibelle]

Nessibelle, this one statement is something many guys, especially those who go looking for arm candy (only care about her beauty), need to see from a lady.

But still there are some good men here, and if I meet one, I would give up looking for anyone anywhere.

Sorry, could you please express your thought in a simpler way, because I don't understand.
Do you want to say, that guys who are not looking for a serious relationship need a woman like me? Sorry, it might sound stupid but I really a bit confused about the meaning of the statement.

[TomT]

He meant that your statement contained some important information, that many men could learn something from it and that some men could learn more than others. 

[Nessibelle]

He meant that your statement contained some important information, that many men could learn something from it and that some men could learn more than others. 

Thanks. But why

especially those who go looking for arm candy (only care about her beauty)

?

[ECR844]

He meant that your statement contained some important information, that many men could learn something from it and that some men could learn more than others. 

Thanks. But why

especially those who go looking for arm candy (only care about her beauty)

?

"Nessibelle,"

  I believe the original poster was commenting on the fact that you mention the possibility of meeting a man locally at home. One of the often mentioned reasons on forums of this nature for FSU and Russian ladies looking for foreigners for marriage is that the local men are dysfunctional, drunks, drug addicts, ____fill in blank with your prejudices and preconception here__, etc..


  As a result some of the men who seek FSU women and RW, have deluded themselves that there is no reason or possibility that a FSUW or RW would want a local man. Often times we have seen that the same men who have this incorrect assumptions and stereotypes also judge a woman based only on her beauty, as opposed to her character or other attributes. They see her as a trophy or accessory for their life as opposed to a partner and wife. I hope this helps,
ECR844

[Excedryn]

I have nothing to add to this except to say thank you to the ladies who responded to this thread. I definitely am not one of those men who run around with the idea that I am going to "nab a trophy", nor one of those who would enjoy the "mistress in waiting" game either. I would sooner write a woman who has a child and "real" photographs of herself/child than some hot tottie in a pink bikini flaunting her curves (general rule of thumb is I never write to those anyhow). 15 years ago I had a completely different outlook of course. At 37, I have matured enough to know what I want in a relationship.
What I have seen posted has been quite inciteful and certainly has cleared a few points of confusion/misconception I have had about who, what, when, where, and why. So for that I say thank you again!

[mendeleyev]

especially those who go looking for arm candy (only care about her beauty)

In this particular phrase I mean to say that some men travel only to find someone with great physical beauty. They do not care about her family, her inner world, her culture, or the traditions which are special to the lady. These men think only of themselves. The lady is not a person with feelings to this kind of man, she is only a trophy.

I believe that in most cases the men who read this forum are gentlemen who enjoy travel to your country, who learn Russian words and phrases to understand and communicate, and who want to share their lives with a special lady. For example, look at the feelings expressed by Excedryn. Just from that one post he sounds to me like a very mature man who would cherish a beautiful lady. I can easily say the same compliments about men like ECR and many others.

Nessibelle, my sincere apology to you for not being more clear. Thanks to Tom, ECR and Excedryn for your excellent assistance.

[Nessibelle]

Thank you for your explanations. Now it's clear. I suspect it was not clear to me when I wrote so, because it was almost morning and my brain was begging for a sleep))

Everyone being sane and sober should understand that general conclusions are frequently myths. Especially about people. So there are worthy men in FSU for sure.

[TomT]

Everyone being sane and sober should understand that general conclusions are frequently myths. Especially about people. So there are worthy men in FSU for sure.

Along the same line of thought, you should not believe that all Western men are the best in the world; there are unworthy men here, as well. One good feature about international dating is that it requires the man to make more effort than he would in local dating. The fact that he arrives in your country may not tell you everything about his character but at least you know that he kept his promise to visit and that he is not too lazy to travel.   

[Nessibelle]

Along the same line of thought, you should not believe that Western men are the best in the world; there are unworthy men here, as well.

Sure. People are just people no matter where they live.

One unique feature about international dating is that it requires the man to make more effort than he would in local dating. The fact that he arrives in your country may not tell you everything about his character but at least you know that he is not too lazy to travel.   

Yes, and if he travels to my place for 3-4 times, I would guess he is at least interested in me.

[TomT]

Precisely.

Unfortunately, it is impossible to predict how much effort a man will make after the intensity of new love subsides. This problem is not unique to international dating, though; it applies equally to local dating.