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Author Topic: My Visit to North Korea. A Look Inside the DPRK.  (Read 32084 times)

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Offline Omega1982

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Re: My Visit to North Korea. A Look Inside the DPRK.
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2019, 06:43:43 PM »
The western media is fond of telling us that there are many restrictions on taking photographs and especially filming in North Korea.

I didn’t find that to be the case at all. Whilst it is true that there are restrictions on photographs of military installations, soldiers and the like, photographs of regular things and life in and around the streets there are no restrictions that I encountered. As long as you don’t seek to do anything that they consider disrespectful you will have no problems at all.

Below is a video composed of several short videos I took simply driving around the streets in different places (excuse the wind noise). I have segued them all together to create one video which is 4½ minutes long. The video starts off driving past Kim Il-sung Square which you will be familiar with if you’ve seen NK military parades and the like on the news.


I think that gives you a pretty good impression of day-to-day life around the streets. I found it remarkably similar looking to Russia.


Where's the funding coming from for the construction? 

How can you really tell that "morality is stuck in 1957" by just going on a tour.  I think that would require a more in depth interaction with the locals. 

Online Guile

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Re: My Visit to North Korea. A Look Inside the DPRK.
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2019, 10:11:29 PM »
Are the guides single? 

So how were the women? 

Do you think there will ever be a bride industry? 

I read somewhere that North Korean women are more naturally beautiful than the South Koreans which love plastic surgery.

You want to date North Korean women? haha. Have you even been to either Korea?

Offline Manny

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Re: My Visit to North Korea. A Look Inside the DPRK.
« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2019, 11:03:20 PM »
Are the guides single? 

One was married, the other not.

So how were the women? 

Many are quite easy on the eye. You'll see a few in later posts.

I read somewhere that North Korean women are more naturally beautiful than the South Koreans which love plastic surgery.

They are keen to point that out.  :)

Do you think there will ever be a bride industry?

No. This did come up. One of my fellow travellers was a Bulgarian chap and he was quite interested in the idea of procuring a wife from there. He had been married to a woman from Columbia previously, and as my wife is from Russia, and as the international dating subject is one I know a lot about, this sparked much conversation around the whole topic.

The long and short of it seems to be that the women are very patriotic and have no particular desire to leave their homeland, family and culture. Marrying a foreigner isn’t a thing. Added to the fact it is not simple to get an international passport and extremely difficult to get a permanent exit visa of any kind. Not to mention communication with DPRK citizens from abroad is difficult due to the restrictions around internet and telephony.

Assuming you were able to build a relationship with a woman, and assuming she wanted to leave, I think you'd need to be quite well connected to enable her departure. And I doubt it would be cheap. The guides refused to speculate on that scenario.

If you wanted to go and live in the DPRK - and some foreigners do and have done - then there would be a possibility of marrying a local, as there would anywhere.

How can you really tell that "morality is stuck in 1957" by just going on a tour.  I think that would require a more in depth interaction with the locals. 

It's not hard to work out. You use your eyes and ears, you see the society around you, how people behave, how they dress, what music they listen to, etc. The streets are not full of druggies, there's no graffiti, there's no litter, there's no street crime. Western culture is generally eschewed. It feels a little as if time has frozen in the late 50's. I liked that about the place.

Here's an interesting thing: in 2003 a delegation from the US National Lawyers Guild/American Association of Jurists visited the DPRK. They visited many of the places I did and drew much the same conclusions on the society as I did. You can read the report >>here<<. It's a good read.
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.


Offline rosco

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Re: My Visit to North Korea. A Look Inside the DPRK.
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2019, 03:43:02 AM »
My favourite part of any Guardian article;


"Since you’re here…
… we have a small favour to ask. More people, like you, are reading and supporting the Guardian’s independent, investigative journalism than ever before."



 :ROFL:

Offline Manny

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Re: My Visit to North Korea. A Look Inside the DPRK.
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2019, 11:09:24 AM »
On the itinerary was a trip to the war museum. Much of the indoor sections you can't take photos in, but you can take photos of this section.  :nod:

Just a small part of the display of some of the hardware taken from the US Imperialist Aggressors.









Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Offline Manny

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Re: My Visit to North Korea. A Look Inside the DPRK.
« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2019, 11:11:56 AM »
And a few more............









Can anyone guess what the best trophy they have is? It was removed from the US armed forces in 1968, some years after the war was supposedly over.
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Offline BillyB

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Re: My Visit to North Korea. A Look Inside the DPRK.
« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2019, 05:01:11 PM »
- It isn't half as bad as portrayed in the West, particularly the US


I'd like to see the areas where tourists aren't allowed to go. Capitols are usually where the money and good jobs are.

Can anyone guess what the best trophy they have is? It was removed from the US armed forces in 1968, some years after the war was supposedly over.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Pueblo_(AGER-2)

It's possible that ship may be back in America's possession if North Korea wants their ship back in a trade.

Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776. If you want to stop the war in Ukraine, fix elections, stop medical tyranny and forced vaccinations, lower inflation and make America and the world a better place, get Trump back into power. The Democrats and Republicans have shown they can't do the job. They are good at robbing us and getting people killed in non stop wars.

Offline rosco

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Re: My Visit to North Korea. A Look Inside the DPRK.
« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2019, 03:11:47 AM »
I never said it was a great place to live but it isn't as bad as we're told it it. Particularly if you keep in mind what we discussed above, you don't miss what you don't have.

Funnily enough, I like checking out a kiwi chap called Indigo Traveller on YouTube. He goes to all sorts of places off the beaten track and covers them in a video blog. Iraq, Iran, Somalia etc. Some of his stuff is really interesting. In fact Iran was another place where the people got a glowing report, contrary to what we get told in the West.


Anyway, he did a multi video blog on North Korea and covered a lot of where Manny has been. From his blogs, North Korea looks a little bit boring, quite suppressed, quite old fashioned but also some amazing scenery, particularly the mountainous region near the border. It looks stunning.

Yes the tours are planned, as they all are around the world. When people come to Scotland they see the distilleries, the nation parks, eat seafood and visit the castles. We don't drive them through the shitholes in Glasgow and stop at some low end factory to interrogate the workers!!

The comments on IT's videos are classic yank though;

"Lets storm North Korea instead of Area 51"

"North Korea seems very scary. You could slip up on one little mistake, and be sent to your death bed."

"North koreans arent paid actors, They're forced actors"

Apologies if this derailed the thread a bit. Still enjoying the posts Manny  :thumbsup:

Online andrewfi

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Re: My Visit to North Korea. A Look Inside the DPRK.
« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2019, 03:38:07 AM »
At some point, I fully expect to see somebody suggest that because Manny is posting stuff that counters the western propaganda image of North Korea that Manny is either a dupe of Korean propaganda or a paid servant of the North Korean government.

The truth is that in just the same way as Germans during WW1 and the sequel were portrayed as eaters of babies and during Gulf War 1 Iraqis were portrayed as baby killers, that much of the demonising of North Koreans and North Korea itself is dehumanising propaganda designed to enable hate and fear among the sheeple.

Given that many of the constraints upon the country are a response to the actions of the demonising, dehumanising outsiders that all seems a tad rich, but nobody ever said that cognitive dissonance was a rational process!

The reality is that Manny is reporting no more or less than other people who choose to gain knowledge in a more objective, less coloured manner already understood to be the case. I expect that among the many surprises that Manny encountered on his visit, that the lifestyle and behaviours of the people he met and the way in which he was treated were not unexpected or surprising.
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

Offline Manny

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Re: My Visit to North Korea. A Look Inside the DPRK.
« Reply #34 on: November 13, 2019, 09:28:40 AM »
Can anyone guess what the best trophy they have is? It was removed from the US armed forces in 1968, some years after the war was supposedly over.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Pueblo_(AGER-2)

It's possible that ship may be back in America's possession if North Korea wants their ship back in a trade.

Yes indeed, the USS Pueblo. A US spy ship that was captured by the DPRK in their waters in January 1968. Here it is.



It had by then (despite what Wikipedia says) been in DPRK waters 17 times in a few months.



Before you go on you get the full explanation. The image is of the crew surrendering.



Its under constant guard.

Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Offline Manny

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Re: My Visit to North Korea. A Look Inside the DPRK.
« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2019, 09:29:09 AM »
This Cold War spy ship is the only US Navy vessel being held by a foreign government.



They let handsome English blokes mooch around it though and take photos with the guards.  ;D



A shot of the interior.



Eventually, the US government admitted it was a spy ship, previously pretending it was some kind of research vessel.



They issued a full apology to the Korean people, after eleven months, and the captured US navy crew were released.

The DPRK have refused to give it back as it is a trophy. It is one of many US items in the museum captured from the US. Other examples include drones and other spying equipment captured in the 80s and 90s in addition to stuff from the Korean War.

The Victorious Fatherland Liberation War Museum is a good trip to do if you are there. It's a huge venue with some great exhibits and scenes, and most informative. You get a good understanding of the Korean War from their perspective.
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Offline BillyB

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Re: My Visit to North Korea. A Look Inside the DPRK.
« Reply #36 on: November 13, 2019, 02:25:35 PM »
At some point, I fully expect to see somebody suggest that because Manny is posting stuff that counters the western propaganda image of North Korea that Manny is either a dupe of Korean propaganda or a paid servant of the North Korean government.


Western media has lied about Trump Russia collusion for over two years but they are capable of telling the truth sometimes. Much of the stories they get on N Korea are from people who escaped North Korea.

When it comes to dictators, the city they rule in prospers while others suffer. My wife lived in Tripoli, Libya when she was my fiancée. She said it's a great place to live and Ghaddafi was well respected. I didn't say much over the phone because I know somebody could be listening but I wanted to tell her unemployment is high and life sucks for them and most people in Libya hate Ghaddafi.

As the civil war in Libya raged on, rebels made little progress but soon NATO got their act together and did a better job bombing a road to Tripoli for the rebels. I call my wife and tell her get ready to run. I told her call the embassy for directions on what to do. I told her the rebels are almost to Tripoli. She said not to worry. Everything is safe and the news reports are that the fighting is on the other side of the country. I told her that is false and better get ready to leave. I didn't hear from her a couple of days. She wrote she's in Ukraine. That night after we talked, shooting in the city started and they drove to the airport as quick as they could. Tens of thousands of foreigners were there trying to escape.

Propaganda works both ways. Sure it's nice N Koreans aren't always on their cell phone and interact with each other more but let's be real, we prefer to be where we're at than living in N Korea when you factor in all the good and bad.
Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776. If you want to stop the war in Ukraine, fix elections, stop medical tyranny and forced vaccinations, lower inflation and make America and the world a better place, get Trump back into power. The Democrats and Republicans have shown they can't do the job. They are good at robbing us and getting people killed in non stop wars.

Offline Manny

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Re: My Visit to North Korea. A Look Inside the DPRK.
« Reply #37 on: November 13, 2019, 03:34:57 PM »
Much of the stories they get on N Korea are from people who escaped North Korea.

Which is a miniscule minority of the populace. I'd suggest the defectors, runaways and the traitors are not good witnesses and not representative of the whole.

People abandon their homeland, family, friends and culture on a one way ticket maybe for a reason.

For normal people, there is nothing I saw that anyone needed to "escape" from. Unless maybe you did something wrong and you wanted to (or had to) run away. In that situation, when you arrive in your new location, you need to big up the negatives of where you came from to be allowed to stay.

Western media has lied about Trump Russia collusion for over two years

Similarly, I'd suggest much of what we have seen written about "Rocket Man" and "Hermit Kingdom" and the like is utter tosh. Certainly, I'd suggest North Korea is not an aggressive state like they are painted. Like Russia, they have invaded nobody and they seek to defend themselves from aggression and generally to be left alone. The US, after bombing the country into near oblivion (and still losing the war and signing the only ever armistice agreement without a victory) has spent the last half a century or so leaning on, threatening, spying on and applying sanctions to North Korea. They have been seeking productive talks for decades. Trump is the only one that has ever engaged with them properly. But Trump seems to misunderstand the history and doesn't grasp that denuclearisation isnt at all on the table. It can never be as they must have a deterrent against US aggression lest Kim Jong-un suffers the same fate as Gaddafi.

North Korea watched the US destroy Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan in meaningless wars. They watched the regime change in Ukraine, attempted regime changes in Syria and elsewhere. Involvement in Yemen. The constant threats and aggression against Venezuela, Russia and others. The trade war with China. They know from bitter experience during the Korean War the US cannot be trusted. They know while they have a nuclear deterrent, a strong army, friends in China and Russia and a war already won under their belt they are safe from US aggression. If they gave up nuclear weapons, like Libya, the US would then invade them and destroy their country. Again.

John Bolton said the US sought the "Libya model" with the DPRK.

What happened in Libya was they denuclearised, then got invaded and the leader killed.

Quote from: Trump
“We were set back very badly when John Bolton talked about the Libyan model ... what a disaster,” Trump told reporters at the White House.

This is why the people in the DPRK respect and love their leaders. This is also why you can't buy Coca Cola there and there are no McDonalds.
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Offline NS1

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Re: My Visit to North Korea. A Look Inside the DPRK.
« Reply #38 on: November 13, 2019, 04:38:35 PM »
Manny you applying for the job of Media relations expert?
It might be cool to visit and check out something different.
But you wouldn't give up your life, toys or the luxuries you have come to
know for one minute.

I know you have a hate on for the US and I guess its friends.
But reality is, you, I and most other people never see what really happens
behind the Scenes of most of these countries and likely will never know
the real truth of most of it.

Reality most of it for power and wealth and those who have it always want more.
Its been going on before the roman empire and will til someone pulls the trigger.
There is nothing permanent except change.

Offline BillyB

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Re: My Visit to North Korea. A Look Inside the DPRK.
« Reply #39 on: November 13, 2019, 04:55:59 PM »
people never see what really happens
behind the Scenes of most of these countries and likely will never know
the real truth of most of it.


Nobody knows all the truth but most people know some of the truth. We're not completely blind. If everybody had a free one way ticket to live anywhere in this world, we have a pretty good idea on which would be the most populous nation. We have a pretty good idea N Korea's population would decrease.

When a nation like Syria has a war, watch how people vote with their feet. Among the nations nearest to Syria, the refugees chose European nations. How many Syrians chose Russia, Belarus, Ukraine, etc...? They know which nations are accepting, friendly, and has an environment that is best for their and their children's future.

Picture in link below showing two sides to the Berlin Wall. Which side would you like to live on? Wall was put up by the same people who put up the barbed wire fence  and armed guards in the background to keep people in. The other side of the fence has nothing to stop people from scaling the wall.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Wall#/media/File:Berlinermauer.jpg
Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776. If you want to stop the war in Ukraine, fix elections, stop medical tyranny and forced vaccinations, lower inflation and make America and the world a better place, get Trump back into power. The Democrats and Republicans have shown they can't do the job. They are good at robbing us and getting people killed in non stop wars.

Offline dcguyusa

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Re: My Visit to North Korea. A Look Inside the DPRK.
« Reply #40 on: November 13, 2019, 05:00:46 PM »
Quote
(and still losing the war and signing the only ever armistice agreement without a victory)

You apparently forgot about the Treaty of Versailles.  That ended the war of European imperialist aggression.  And followed by a war of Socialist/National Socialist aggression.  :fighting0025:

https://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/modern-world-history-1918-to-1980/the-treaty-of-versailles/
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Online Guile

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Re: My Visit to North Korea. A Look Inside the DPRK.
« Reply #41 on: November 13, 2019, 07:54:05 PM »
So all the concentration camps in N Korea they have are not real?

Offline BillyB

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Re: My Visit to North Korea. A Look Inside the DPRK.
« Reply #42 on: November 13, 2019, 08:37:47 PM »
So all the concentration camps in N Korea they have are not real?

We call them concentration camps. They call them re-education camps. You seen many photos of people, especially women, clapping and crying for joy when the great one walks by. If one is not crying hard enough, they may get sent to a camp that teaches them to cry hard. Those photos aren't taken by Western media for propaganda purposes. Those photos, after approval, are released by N Korea to the world to show the great one is loved. Nobody in this world has made more women orgasm just by walking past them than Kim Jong Un.
Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776. If you want to stop the war in Ukraine, fix elections, stop medical tyranny and forced vaccinations, lower inflation and make America and the world a better place, get Trump back into power. The Democrats and Republicans have shown they can't do the job. They are good at robbing us and getting people killed in non stop wars.

Offline Manny

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Re: My Visit to North Korea. A Look Inside the DPRK.
« Reply #43 on: November 13, 2019, 09:36:52 PM »
So all the concentration camps in N Korea they have are not real?

About as real as US institutions such as Terre Haute and that well-known offshore facility affectionately known as Guantánamo Bay.

I haven’t visited any NK penal facilities, so I’m not qualified to opine on them. I don’t expect they’re nice, but prisons seldom are.

What we call a ‘concentration camp’ they call a ‘penal labour colony’ or a ‘prison camp’. Its the same use of language that calls governments of countries we disagree with a ‘regime’ rather than the elected government they often are.

If I visit Florida, when I get home people don’t say to me, “Ah, but what about the plight of the 2.3 million people in America’s prisons?” America has the highest incarceration rate in the world. It also starts one war after another across the world. It doesn’t stop people visiting New York.

I fail to see the relevance of a North Korean prison in a discussion about tourism. As long as tourists to the DPRK follow the rules, they won’t see the inside of a prison.

I get that some people may feel uncomfortable when asked to think outside the box or challenge the fake news they’ve been fed. Why we are seeing whataboutism here.
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Online Guile

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Re: My Visit to North Korea. A Look Inside the DPRK.
« Reply #44 on: November 13, 2019, 10:01:32 PM »
The difference is that most of the people in those camps are North Koreans.  It is still a dictatorship.

The problem in NK is that if you are perceived to do anything wrong you could be throw in jail.  Foreigner or not.  Like that Otto guy who stole a flag and somehow ended up in a coma.  Or some US journalists who were taken.

If I steal a flag from the embassy in USA, Canada, UK, Europe I'm not gonna be sentenced to 10 years hard labor.

No need to take unnecessary risk.  That's why I won't go to Dubai. Seems like a hot tourist spot now but they still are under Muslim law.  No alcohol.  You can go to prison for unpaid debts.






Offline BillyB

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Re: My Visit to North Korea. A Look Inside the DPRK.
« Reply #45 on: November 13, 2019, 10:22:58 PM »
The problem in NK is that if you are perceived to do anything wrong you could be throw in jail.  Foreigner or not.  Like that Otto guy who stole a flag and somehow ended up in a coma.  Or some US journalists who were taken.


All of us at this forum has made mistakes. I know I've made less mistakes compared to others but I also know I'm not mistake free. As teenagers or young adults we can make stupid mistakes and make even more mistakes when drunk. Stealing a souvenir isn't worth a coma that led to a death sentence for punishment.

I knew an Afghan guy who told me when he was a child at soccer games, the authorities would stop the game and announce what some people did. They'd say this guy stole and would then chop off his hand. This guy ran from the police and they would chop off his foot. Some got their heads chopped off.

N Korea isn't as bad as Afghanistan but people still live life scared and don't want to make mistakes humans naturally make because they know it could be their last mistake. I'd bet money citizens there commit less crimes than Americans.
Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776. If you want to stop the war in Ukraine, fix elections, stop medical tyranny and forced vaccinations, lower inflation and make America and the world a better place, get Trump back into power. The Democrats and Republicans have shown they can't do the job. They are good at robbing us and getting people killed in non stop wars.

Offline Manny

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Re: My Visit to North Korea. A Look Inside the DPRK.
« Reply #46 on: November 13, 2019, 10:26:10 PM »
The difference is that most of the people in those camps are North Koreans.  It is still a dictatorship.

The problem in NK is that if you are perceived to do anything wrong you could be throw in jail.  Foreigner or not.  Like that Otto guy who stole a flag and somehow ended up in a coma.  Or some US journalists who were taken.

If I steal a flag from the embassy in USA, Canada, UK, Europe I'm not gonna be sentenced to 10 years hard labor.

No need to take unnecessary risk.  That's why I won't go to Dubai. Seems like a hot tourist spot now but they still are under Muslim law.  No alcohol.  You can go to prison for unpaid debts.

If you choose to visit a country, you familiarise yourself with their rules and laws in advance and decide if you want to follow them or not. If you don’t agree with them you don’t go.

The Otto guy stole. Penalties for theft are harsh (why the crime rate is close to zero). He knew that before he went (all tour companies give out an orientation pack in advance). He chose to break the law there.

When in Rome.......
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Offline Manny

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Re: My Visit to North Korea. A Look Inside the DPRK.
« Reply #47 on: November 13, 2019, 10:40:35 PM »
Stealing a souvenir isn't worth a coma that led to a death sentence for punishment.

To suggest a guy received a death sentence is misleading. Its untrue.

I had this discussion there.

The ‘souvenir’ was a piece of party material that contained emotive content for Koreans. To us, it seems like a guy stole a poster and was dealt with unnecessarily harshly. To them, by stealing that particular item he was disrespecting the party, and by extension disrespecting the people and the country.

Disrespecting the party/leaders and stealing are two big no-noes in North Korea. That guy did both. He knew the rules and cultural norms before he went and chose to ignore them.

He got a long prison sentence. They would maybe have done a deal with the US and released him I think. As it was the guy got sick and ended up in a coma. Many pharmaceuticals are unavailable in North Korea due to US sanctions. Nobody intended for the guy to get sick. They would have preferred to deport him under different circumstances.
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Offline Omega1982

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Re: My Visit to North Korea. A Look Inside the DPRK.
« Reply #48 on: November 13, 2019, 10:44:22 PM »
Are the guides single? 

So how were the women? 

Do you think there will ever be a bride industry? 

I read somewhere that North Korean women are more naturally beautiful than the South Koreans which love plastic surgery.

You want to date North Korean women? haha. Have you even been to either Korea?

Yes I have.  I've been to Asia five times and to South Korea once. 

Offline Omega1982

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Re: My Visit to North Korea. A Look Inside the DPRK.
« Reply #49 on: November 13, 2019, 10:50:49 PM »
Manny I understand that currently it is almost impossible to get married to a North Korean woman.  What I meant was that if the country changes a bit as China has done in the past forty years then it might be a possibility.  I met an intelligent Chinese man on a European flight last month and he said that North Korea is very much like China was 40 years ago. 

At the end of the day we seek a slightly younger and slim bride, and there are less and less places worldwide where one can find this.