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Author Topic: Dedollarization.  (Read 524 times)

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Offline Omega1982

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Dedollarization.
« on: October 30, 2019, 11:28:13 PM »
Manny has been talking about this for years. 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/a-growing-club-of-very-powerful-countries-is-steering-away-from-using-the-dollar/ar-AAJBVox

Online msmoby

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Re: Dedollarization.
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2019, 04:32:14 AM »
'Sure' and in the meantime I have sent thousands of USD to China in the last 10 days - via Paypal

Reality v wet dreams

Offline Omega1982

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Re: Dedollarization.
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2019, 03:17:14 AM »
Manny was right all along. 


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Re: Dedollarization.
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2019, 04:01:11 AM »
Manny was right all along.

Yes its coming, I hope it will be after I have died, but Trump is certainly accellerating the pace with his numbskull actions.


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Online BillyB

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Re: Dedollarization.
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2019, 10:53:53 AM »
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/a-growing-club-of-very-powerful-countries-is-steering-away-from-using-the-dollar/ar-AAJBVox


Eustance Huang graduated college 3 years ago and writes about markets and video games. He needs to get some experience at life before trusting what he writes. I don't know how old you are Omega but I'm old enough to be smarter than kids.

America's economy is incredible strong right now and it continues to get stronger while the rest of the world faces recession. Trump has negotiated and is currently negotiating better trade deals for America. Sure he's an asshole but he's working for us. Hopefully other nations vote in leaders that fight for their nation same as Trump does for ours. People will only have to deal with Trump a few more years but I hope his policies stay around for decades.

America has controlling shares at the World Bank and IMF. Why? Because we put the most money in there for other nations to borrow or get bailed out. If China or Russia wants to take the lead, they can up their game in those two institutions.

Also for a nation's currency to become the world's currency, the nation needs to be trusted. Not many nations trust Russia or China to use their currency or want their troops on their land for security purposes. American troops are in 800 locations around the world. Most of the places we were invited in because those nations trust America. Many nation's trust the EU but the EU can't provide security. Many European nations rely on security from the US.

Offline Valenki

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Re: Dedollarization.
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2019, 01:48:09 PM »
The US is becoming increasingly desperate. They managed to put Irak back on the dollar and they've been trying it on in Venezuela too. The dollar is table-game currency and the dominoes are starting to fall against it. Once it tips off the balance it's all over with and the US will have to barter in Euros or Rubles if it wants to survive at all. 
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Offline Valenki

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Re: Dedollarization.
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2019, 01:55:11 PM »
... Many nation's trust the EU but the EU can't provide security. Many European nations rely on security from the US.
Reliance on U.S. security is based upon the tried and true Mafia principle and no longer has anything to do with an external threat. CIA racketeers check on their "security" (protection) recipients and remind them, "It's a nice country you have here. It would be a shame if something bad should happen to it."
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Online BillyB

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Re: Dedollarization.
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2019, 02:27:03 PM »
... Many nation's trust the EU but the EU can't provide security. Many European nations rely on security from the US.
Reliance on U.S. security is based upon the tried and true Mafia principle and no longer has anything to do with an external threat. CIA racketeers check on their "security" (protection) recipients and remind them, "It's a nice country you have here. It would be a shame if something bad should happen to it."

Some countries feel the same way you do. Most do not. Those who are relying on American security are free to rely on Russia for their security instead. America and Russia don't attack each others troops. The reason why nations don't invite Russian troops in their country is because.... well...… ask Ukraine how it worked out for them.

America did not treat Fidel Castro of Cuba nicely. Fidel did not treat Americans nicely either. But if Cuba had a pro American leader, America would treat that leader nicely but Russia won't.

If Russia and China want to be top dogs in this world, they either got take a lot of nations over or gain their trust. Right now China and Russia are only scaring off their neighbors.

Offline Valenki

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Re: Dedollarization.
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2019, 09:45:55 PM »
... Many nation's trust the EU but the EU can't provide security. Many European nations rely on security from the US.
Reliance on U.S. security is based upon the tried and true Mafia principle and no longer has anything to do with an external threat. CIA racketeers check on their "security" (protection) recipients and remind them, "It's a nice country you have here. It would be a shame if something bad should happen to it."






Some countries feel the same way you do. Most do not.
Personally, I think that most do.

Those who are relying on American security are free to rely on Russia for their security instead.
You keep referring to "reliance on security" but you need to motivate your conviction by first naming a threat. Who is it you think we need protection from?

The reason why nations don't invite Russian troops in their country is because.... well...… ask Ukraine how it worked out for them.
You want me to ask the Ukrainian people or the hand-picked politicians who were wedged into power by coercive, U.S. tactics? True, we don't invite Russian troops in our country. Why should we? Who wants to be occupied? What we want is for the U.S. troops to leave - their occupation is unwanted.

America did not treat Fidel Castro of Cuba nicely. Fidel did not treat Americans nicely either.
Give me an example of Castro treating the U.S. un-nicely.

But if Cuba had a pro American leader, America would treat that leader nicely but Russia won't.
Castro was pro-American. I suggest you do some reading on the events leading up to the Cuban revolution and Washington's response. You will find that the leader the U.S. "treated nicely" was Fulgencio Batista (a yes-man for the American mafia) and the reason for the revolution in the first place.

If Russia and China want to be top dogs in this world, they either got take a lot of nations over or gain their trust.
They are top dogs in this world already.

Right now China and Russia are only scaring off their neighbors.
That brings us full circle back to my initial comments on how the U.S. forces itself on other nations by threats. If you feel China and Russia are scaring off its's neighbours then why are both growing in European endearment and the U.S. is waning? Is it because we do not agree with you about being "scared off" or can it be that we are tired of the U.S. "scaring us off" and we are now willing to risk China and Russia "scaring us off" instead?
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Online BillyB

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Re: Dedollarization.
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2019, 10:00:22 PM »
If you don't know why most nations prefer America's security over Russia and China's, it's best you ask those nations. Even suggest to them to replace American troops with Russian or Chinese and give them a good reason why.

As far as Castro goes, it's been talked about for decades. I'm surprised that you don't know why sanctions were placed on Castro/Cuba. He stole a lot from Americans. America can be friends with Castro after Americans are compensated for what Castro stole.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/04/allowing-lawsuits-properties-seized-castro-cuba-190417142211925.html

Offline Valenki

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Re: Dedollarization.
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2019, 10:18:11 PM »
If you don't know why most nations prefer America's security over Russia and China's, it's best you ask those nations. Even suggest to them to replace American troops with Russian or Chinese and give them a good reason why.
You seem to have a firm notion that nations are eager to be occupied by a foreign military and that it comes down to a simple matter of which foreign occupational Army we prefer. A  better idea would first be for you to answer my earlier question, "Who is it you think we need protection from?" and we can then take the discussion from that point.

As far as Castro goes, it's been talked about for decades. I'm surprised that you don't know why sanctions were placed on Castro/Cuba. He stole a lot from Americans. America can be friends with Castro after Americans are compensated for what Castro stole.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/04/allowing-lawsuits-properties-seized-castro-cuba-190417142211925.html
Castro didn't "steal" much (if anything at all) from the U.S. Maybe you are referring to the American Mafia's money-laundering tourist industry? I am sure you don't mean Cuba's natural resources of fruit and tobacco that was commandeered by the U.S. Mafia. Perhaps you are talking about the American Mafia's control on drugs and prostituion?

And what about American "sanctions"? You speak as though you think I know nothing (or little) about why they were implemented. I suggest it is you who is unfamiliar on the reasons for those sanctions. For example ... can you tell me why you think Soviet missiles were placed on Cuba?
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Online BillyB

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Re: Dedollarization.
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2019, 10:45:55 PM »
"Who is it you think we need protection from?" and we can then take the discussion from that point.


Each nation has their own reasons for security. One size does not fit all so there are dozens of answers to your question. If those nations can't preserve their way of life, they may ask another country to help out. Guess who gets asked the most?

Castro didn't "steal" much (if anything at all) from the U.S. Maybe you are referring to the American Mafia's money-laundering tourist industry? I am sure you don't mean Cuba's natural resources of fruit and tobacco that was commandeered by the U.S. Mafia. Perhaps you are talking about the American Mafia's control on drugs and prostituion?


If you don't think Castro stole anything from Americans who invested their money in Cuba, bought land, or operated businesses, then I understand why you don't think Castro is a bad guy and we should be friends.

But Castro did steal from American citizens and the American government sticks up for it's citizens. You may not like that behavior from a government. I like it.


can you tell me why you think Soviet missiles were placed on Cuba?


There's was a thing called the Cold War going on at that time. America placed missiles in Turkey and Russia placed missiles in Cuba. Is your version of history the same or is there a Mafia conspiracy involved in this too?

Offline Valenki

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Re: Dedollarization.
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2019, 11:29:17 PM »
If you don't think Castro stole anything from Americans who invested their money in Cuba, bought land, or operated businesses, then I understand why you don't think Castro is a bad guy and we should be friends.
Those were all Mafia-generated assets. If American citizens buy into such a risk then if the consequences pull the rug out then it's 'hard knocks' for those taking such risks.

I've been spending my summer holidays in  Bulgaria for the last few years and it is no secret that tourism there is a Mafia-operated money-laundering machine. If the Bulgarian government cracks down on organized crime and the hotel I've chosen will not be refunding me my money .... tough shit. And that goes for people buying land or operating businesses there. If you don't know the risks you shouldn't play.

But Castro did steal from American citizens and the American government sticks up for it's citizens.
Sorry Billy, but the only damage control the U.S. initiated was for the benefit of the American Mafia, something that even Fidel Castro hadn't expected. He thought Washington would praise him for ridding his country of organized crime. Turns out (apparently) that Kennedy really did have tight connections with the Mob - just as the rumours had always claimed. 

can you tell me why you think Soviet missiles were placed on Cuba?

There's was a thing called the Cold War going on at that time. America placed missiles in Turkey and Russia placed missiles in Cuba ....
Yes. So you acknowledge the fact that the whole issue was about U.S. missiles in Turkey (and Italy) poised and aimed at Soviet cities and that Krushejev's plan was to force them out by placing his own missiles on Cuba aimed at U.S. cities. He succeeded, by the way. OK, good start! Now, all you have to do is reply to my question: "Why do you think there were sanctions placed on Cuba by the U.S?" You have failed to address that question. You are inspired to know about the tit-for-tat missile jousting so what "foul" was committed by the USSR that sanctions would rectify? I don't see a "foul". Do you?

.... Is your version of history the same or is there a Mafia conspiracy involved in this too?
Why would it?
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Online BillyB

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Re: Dedollarization.
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2019, 06:35:25 AM »

Val, you somehow believe every property owned by Americans were by the Mafia when most property and businesses owned in Cuba by Americans were owned by law abiding citizens. My web link said there are around 200,000 claims. Think those are all mafia related? You also believe Castro seizing all property without due process was a good thing and should be praised by America. Is it okay for Sweden to take everything you got on an accusation that you're a criminal? Or should Sweden take criminals to court first to confirm they're a criminal before claiming their property? I already supplied a web link to why America took action against Cuba although you want me to answer your question....again. Of course more action was taken against Cuba for their behavior during the cold war. You like what Cuba did. I and most Americans don't. Castro is responsible for the direction he took his country in. Life is tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid. So they continue to suffer. They should pick better friends.

Offline Valenki

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Re: Dedollarization.
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2019, 07:33:17 AM »
Val,
Nice touch. I like it!  :)
... you somehow believe every property owned by Americans were by the Mafia when most property and businesses owned in Cuba by Americans were owned by law abiding citizens.
"Law-abiding". That's funny. Allow me please to digress for only a very short moment: During the Apartheid government in South Africa forcing blacks to the back of the queue was law and any white person who stepped in front of an African (or worse, much worse) was "law-abiding".

Now, the pro-American puppet government of Cuba was headed by Fulgencio Batista. He was sort of a Shah (of Iran) forerunner in the sense that they were both put into power by "playing ball". Batista was in the pay of the American Mafia and he turned a blind eye to all of the organized crime shenanagans going on under his nose. Hey, he was getting paid handsomely!  So ..... he made the laws to fit the demands of the Mob. So (again) anyone who made any transactions within his law were "law-abiding". It makes no difference then who bought what in Cuba because it was all under the eye of the American Mafia. Are you following this? No? I am assisting the Mafia by spending my money in the holiday resorts of  Bulgaria but I am "law-abiding". Get it now?
You also believe Castro seizing all property without due process was a good thing and should be praised by America.
Absolutely. Did the 13 original States of the U.S. gain independence by "due process"? Why shoot, the land belonged to the Indians anyway. Cuba belonged to the Cuban population, not La Cosa Nostra of East Harlem.
Is it okay for Sweden to take everything you got on an accusation that you're a criminal? Or should Sweden take criminals to court first to confirm they're a criminal before claiming their property?
Is there some relevant reason for asking that question?
.....  more action was taken against Cuba for their behavior during the cold war. 
Rather than get ourselves in a quagmire suppose you tell me what "behaviour during the cold war" you are talking about? Give me an illustration of what you think might be the best example. Your personal view, I mean.
You like what Cuba did.
Yes.
I and most Americans don't.
Perhaps, if you and those "most Americans" read through this dialogue you/they might change their minds.
Castro is responsible for the direction he took his country in.
Yes. He is responsible for the direction he took his country in .... even when the U.S. made it extremely difficult for the Cuban population.
Life is tough.
Indeed it is.
It's even tougher if you're stupid. So they continue to suffer. They should pick better friends.
Are you speaking again about "most Americans" who have been denied the facts of Cuban history? If so, you are being unfair. Americans are dreadfully ignorant about the outside world through no fault of their own. No, they are not "stupid". Deprivation of knowledge is not their fault any more than economic hardship forced upon Cuba by the U.S. makes the Cuban population "stupid".
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Offline AvHdB

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Re: Dedollarization.
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2019, 10:20:06 AM »
As far as Castro goes, it's been talked about for decades. I'm surprised that you don't know why sanctions were placed on Castro/Cuba. He stole a lot from Americans. America can be friends with Castro after Americans are compensated for what Castro stole.

While unrelated to claims of confiscated property in Cuba.

There is a parallel. Property taken during the Nazi period in both Germany and abroad. Art work has indeed been returned to the heirs. Though to some degree I think this is a never ending treadmill. Some of the claims are dubious others were settled decades ago only to be reclaimed by different descendants. It is for a subset of lawyers a cash cow.

What is interesting now there are claims against former Republics of the Soviet period. While I doubt much will happen in the near future, the foundation from a legal standpoint has been made. My guess this change in attitude will eventually reach courts regarding property else where. 
“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

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Re: Dedollarization.
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2019, 06:55:26 PM »
Property taken during the Nazi period in both Germany and abroad. Art work has indeed been returned to the heirs.


Thanks to guns, Nazi policy on property acquisition got reversed.

Val, imagine yourself being rich. You living in Sweden don't care about politics between Sweden and your next door neighbor Norway. You are not associated with the Mafia. You then invest in property in Norway. You buy land to build you a house and a hotel. You open a new store called Ikea! Business is good. Life is good. Some guy named Castro Jr overthrows the government in Norway and nationalizes everything which allows him to take everything foreigners invested in Norway but he doesn't compensate for foreigners losses. He labels you all as being associated with the Mafia so he's doing a good thing confiscating stuff YOU stole from somebody else. There is no trial to prove you are with the mafia or that you stole anything but you are deemed guilty and their newly revised history books will record all Swedes living in Norway as Mafia. Now the Swedish government gets upset. What was a friendly neighbor is now an enemy and done Swedes wrong. They place sanctions on Norway and tell their citizens to file claims so they may someday recover money and property should the situation in Norway changes. Would you file a claim against Norway and Castro Jr or will you let your investments go and tell your government to remove the unjust sanctions against Norway that is hurting their citizens?

Offline Valenki

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Re: Dedollarization.
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2019, 12:01:48 AM »
Property taken during the Nazi period in both Germany and abroad. Art work has indeed been returned to the heirs.

Thanks to guns, Nazi policy on property acquisition got reversed.

Val, imagine yourself being rich. You living in Sweden don't care about politics between Sweden and your next door neighbor Norway. You are not associated with the Mafia. You then invest in property in Norway. You buy land to build you a house and a hotel. You open a new store called Ikea! Business is good. Life is good. Some guy named Castro Jr overthrows the government in Norway and nationalizes everything which allows him to take everything foreigners invested in Norway but he doesn't compensate for foreigners losses. He labels you all as being associated with the Mafia so he's doing a good thing confiscating stuff YOU stole from somebody else. There is no trial to prove you are with the mafia or that you stole anything but you are deemed guilty and their newly revised history books will record all Swedes living in Norway as Mafia. Now the Swedish government gets upset. What was a friendly neighbor is now an enemy and done Swedes wrong. They place sanctions on Norway and tell their citizens to file claims so they may someday recover money and property should the situation in Norway changes. Would you file a claim against Norway and Castro Jr or will you let your investments go and tell your government to remove the unjust sanctions against Norway that is hurting their citizens?
Apples and pears, Billy. Worse, in fact, you are swimming upstream against your own morals.

Sweden doesn't control Norway (as the American Mafia did in Cuba) and any property I might purchase there will be by way of Norwegian law, not Swedish occupational law or by bribery. I am disappointed that you do not see the difference.

It seems as though you consider the commandeering of Jewish homes and businesses in Poland (by the Nazis) legally yours by binding judicial contract that you may have procured by Nazi law. But no, I really do not think you believe that any more than I do.

In your own words, "Thanks to guns, Mafia policy on property acquisition got reversed".
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Re: Dedollarization.
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2019, 08:24:19 AM »
Sweden doesn't control Norway (as the American Mafia did in Cuba)


Why do you think the American Mafia was the only group that owned property and businesses in Cuba? To validate Castro stealing property from all Americans under the disguise criminals were owning it? Currently American citizens and businesses own property and businesses all over the world.

any property I might purchase there will be by way of Norwegian law, not Swedish occupational law or by bribery. I am disappointed that you do not see the difference.


You did not answer my question. You're dancing around it. Assume you buy property and open businesses in Norway under it's current law. The government there gets taken over and the new laws says you're Mafia without a trial so everything you possess is taken by the government of Norway. Will you be happy about it, accept Norway's new laws or will you make a claim to get your property back? I think you'd make a claim. I think you're no different than the Americans you criticize.

Offline Valenki

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Re: Dedollarization.
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2019, 09:00:42 AM »
Sweden doesn't control Norway (as the American Mafia did in Cuba)

Why do you think the American Mafia was the only group that owned property and businesses in Cuba? To validate Castro stealing property from all Americans under the disguise criminals were owning it? Currently American citizens and businesses own property and businesses all over the world.
You are not paying attention, are you.

any property I might purchase there will be by way of Norwegian law, not Swedish occupational law or by bribery. I am disappointed that you do not see the difference.
You did not answer my question. You're dancing around it. Assume you buy property and open businesses in Norway under it's current law. The government there gets taken over and the new laws says you're Mafia without a trial so everything you possess is taken by the government of Norway. Will you be happy about it, accept Norway's new laws or will you make a claim to get your property back? I think you'd make a claim. I think you're no different than the Americans you criticize.
What are you talking about? Norwegian law is Norwegian law. Democratic law. Cuba was under mafia Mob rule. It wasn't Democratic. Doing business with them was like buying goods that "fell off the back of a truck" and the rightful owner can claim it at any time. The Cubans are the rightful owners and made their claim once Fidel Castro took it to task and did the right thing.

If you want to deal with the devil that's your business but don't cry when the shit hits the fan and it's your loss.
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Re: Dedollarization.
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2019, 04:30:10 PM »

How hard is it to answer my question? I'd file a claim against a nation that steals my property. It's not that difficult to answer.

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Re: Dedollarization.
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2019, 05:48:11 PM »
I guess he would to talk to a few Cuban refugees to really understand the problem with Cuba. What happens here is these guys read some propaganda and think they are informed. If I remember it right most of the refugees I talk to left the country feeling there life was endanger because they had relatives killed. All the refugees I talk to strongly supported the sanctions. I lived in southern Florida until 1976. Your changes of becoming president would be diminished because it would be hard to carry the state of Florida if you did not support sanctions of Cuba. 

Just to make matters worse they would capture any boater who got near there waters and put them in jail for a long time. Then shoot down airplanes who had a navigation problem. You may not remember but this was before GPS and navigation was difficult. Most Yacht clubs knew some who was in jail or had been in jail and sailors talk to each other. Another big voting block against Cuba. Every time president tried to kiss and make up with the Cubans, they would capture someone else or shoot down another plane and end the process. I am sure our friend does not understand there was this block of voters who were against Cuba and Cuba did a lot to keep it that way.


Offline Valenki

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Re: Dedollarization.
« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2019, 09:15:30 PM »

How hard is it to answer my question? It's not that difficult to answer.
I have answered your question. If you do not like my answer or you feel that my answer didn't satisfy your expectations then perhaps you ought to rephrase it or ask another one.  :nod:

I'd file a claim against a nation that steals my property.
You can still file a claim with the Gambino family. Good luck!  :laugh:
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Re: Dedollarization.
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2019, 09:20:37 PM »

How hard is it to answer my question? I'd file a claim against a nation that steals my property. It's not that difficult to answer.

Billy don't bother arguing with that dude.  He's denser than a Swedish meatball!

Online BillyB

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Re: Dedollarization.
« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2019, 09:51:35 PM »
What happens here is these guys read some propaganda and think they are informed.


Val thinks everything American in Cuba was Mafia or Mafia owned so he rationalizes Castro stealing everything American was a good thing.

Castro was pro-American. I suggest you do some reading...…


Castro stole from Americans for our benefit.  :laugh:



 

 

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