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Author Topic: Are you British or Irish..or both? Courts must decide!  (Read 788 times)

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Online msmoby

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Are you British or Irish..or both? Courts must decide!
« on: September 11, 2019, 01:06:48 AM »
A lass from .N.Ireland got a Belfast High Court decision to rule that she was Irish for the purposes of her Application under EU law to apply for residency for her US partner.

The UK govt appealed and this is now The Good Friday Agreement v UK Nationity Law..


An interesting case for us as SC and I could still use the same route.

Will I have to 'renounce' being a Brit?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-49655676

I like having two passports ..when applying for Visas it is useful.

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Re: Are you British or Irish..or both? Courts must decide!
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2019, 12:45:42 PM »
You better be fast, we'll be out of the EU in six weeks hopefully.  :coffeeread:

Pay like everyone else. The country needs the money. We dont need people sneaking middle aged foreign women in under the radar free of charge. That we are over run with unproductive immigrants is one reason we voted to leave the EU anyway.

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Re: Are you British or Irish..or both? Courts must decide!
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2019, 05:24:11 PM »
You better be fast, we'll be out of the EU in six weeks hopefully.  :coffeeread:

Pay like everyone else. The country needs the money. We dont need people sneaking middle aged foreign women in under the radar free of charge. That we are over run with unproductive immigrants is one reason we voted to leave the EU anyway.
God if only.. I will help you hoping, you guys voted for freedom and you deserve now to get it!
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Re: Are you British or Irish..or both? Courts must decide!
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2019, 12:21:43 AM »
You better be fast, we'll be out of the EU in six weeks hopefully.  :coffeeread:

Pay like everyone else. The country needs the money. We dont need people sneaking middle aged foreign women in under the radar free of charge. That we are over run with unproductive immigrants is one reason we voted to leave the EU anyway.

Tut, tut, Manny


All these years posting that same Bollox?)

To go the EU route one must prove you can support one's family and five years on do the same..for them to be allowed to stay.


My previous 'imports' are working and paying taxes and one is now a UK citizen who has imported yet another productive migrant who worked and paid taxes...

They decided to make their lives elsewhere..

Your only 'moan' can therefore be I paid little money compared to the UK route? The joy of having had an IRL passport.



YOU paid much less than know and wifey had to jump through less hoops.


I might have to pay £378 to STOP being a Brit...

As I said..Madame is not keen on living here.

As for 'leaving' ...Markje and your good self seem to be under some sort of wishful thinking spell?

We might 'leave' ..if we have a deal...  on 31st October.. 

My stance on same has not altered.. I think I will be winning some money.. But it sure is proving a bumpy ride..


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Re: Are you British or Irish..or both? Courts must decide!
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2019, 12:23:09 AM »

God if only.. I will help you hoping, you guys voted for freedom and you deserve now to get it!

'freedom' ?

From what, exactly?


Online rosco

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Re: Are you British or Irish..or both? Courts must decide!
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2019, 05:13:06 AM »
I find it very difficult to support this, when the vast majority of us go through the normal channels and pay up for the process. I disliked it but accepted it was a necessary evil, in order for the UK to control the immigration process.

It feels like you’re undermining and cheating the system to save yourself a few grand.

Given your views in general, I think you should give up your nationality and become Irish or European or whatever you lot call it.

Offline Manny

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Re: Are you British or Irish..or both? Courts must decide!
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2019, 06:05:06 AM »
It feels like you’re undermining and cheating the system to save yourself a few grand.

I agree. That few grand he is cheating us out of again is a lot of school books or medicine for a pensioner.

Given your views in general, I think you should give up your nationality and become Irish or European or whatever you lot call it.

Then he'll import her under freedom of movement and they'll both live for free. Maybe even on benefits like his mates the Romanians do.

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Re: Are you British or Irish..or both? Courts must decide!
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2019, 07:19:23 AM »
I am sure there are lots of mobys out there looking at ways to manage their situation to best advantage.

As one door closes, another opens.

Can one blame people from using systems to their advantage?
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

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Re: Are you British or Irish..or both? Courts must decide!
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2019, 08:19:36 AM »
It feels like you’re undermining and cheating the system to save yourself a few grand.


I agree. That few grand he is cheating us out of again is a lot of school books or medicine for a pensioner.

Pompous bollox .. My kids went to private school .. I didn't use the public purse for their education ...  :coffeeread:

Given your views in general, I think you should give up your nationality and become Irish or European or whatever you lot call it.


Then he'll import her under freedom of movement and they'll both live for free. Maybe even on benefits like his mates the Romanians do.

Sighs,

She cannot 'live' for free ... I cannot and haven't ever claimed benefits - other than Child Benefit - for UK born kids ..  I have to not be a burden on the state .. or no residency ..

WHY perpetually post - suggesting stuff that isn't true .. ? !

I am sure there are lots of mobys out there looking at ways to manage their situation to best advantage.

As one door closes, another opens.

Can one blame people from using systems to their advantage?



I just happen to have dual nationality ..  There are certain folk on here who I KNOW are the pot calling the kettle black ;)

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Re: Are you British or Irish..or both? Courts must decide!
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2019, 11:22:06 AM »
It feels like you’re undermining and cheating the system to save yourself a few grand.


I agree. That few grand he is cheating us out of again is a lot of school books or medicine for a pensioner.

Pompous bollox .. My kids went to private school .. I didn't use the public purse for their education ...  :coffeeread:

Given your views in general, I think you should give up your nationality and become Irish or European or whatever you lot call it.


Then he'll import her under freedom of movement and they'll both live for free. Maybe even on benefits like his mates the Romanians do.

Sighs,

She cannot 'live' for free ... I cannot and haven't ever claimed benefits - other than Child Benefit - for UK born kids ..  I have to not be a burden on the state .. or no residency ..

WHY perpetually post - suggesting stuff that isn't true .. ? !

I am sure there are lots of mobys out there looking at ways to manage their situation to best advantage.

As one door closes, another opens.

Can one blame people from using systems to their advantage?



I just happen to have dual nationality ..  There are certain folk on here who I KNOW are the pot calling the kettle black ;)

Please be honest with your quotes because I can’t be bothered bickering with you, especially over stuff I didn’t even say.

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Re: Are you British or Irish..or both? Courts must decide!
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2019, 12:53:18 PM »
Rosco,

I most certainly apologise for attributing Manny's words to you.

I guess I am a little worked up about folks posting utter twaddle re the stringent rules .






Offline Manny

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Re: Are you British or Irish..or both? Courts must decide!
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2019, 03:39:29 PM »
So stringent there are circa 10m more here than the government will admit, and you are planning to bring yet another.............

I am sure you think your woman is great, and she may well be a nice person, but we dont need another non-English speaking immigrant sneaking in via the backdoor. Certainly not a middle aged one that spends so much time in the sun that she may cost the country many tens of thousands in healthcare while you paid £0 to import her. Your second.

Your choices cost the country money. You pay no tax or VAT. You are taking books off school desks and drugs from pensioners who have paid taxes all their lives. 

I can't support that. Why not take her to live in Cyprus or somewhere? No sun here........

I dont want my taxes paying for your lifestyle choices.

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Re: Are you British or Irish..or both? Courts must decide!
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2019, 10:27:13 PM »
So stringent there are circa 10m more here than the government will admit, and you are planning to bring yet another.............

Manny,

Take a deep breath and relaxxxxx... 

Now READ, carefully... An EU citizen, exercising his / her treaty rights to 'import' non EU family members has to COMPLY and prove the ability to support his family..

An EU citizen can pitch up and live in the UK, work in the UK and does not have access to benefits ... Those rights have to be 'earnt' in time spent (legally) present and in the form of contributions.

The Tories have been in power nearly 10 years and could have made the UK law comply with the EU Directive...registering within 3 months...they have not...


So, neither you, I, nor the govt know how many EU citizens live here.



I am sure you think your woman is great, and she may well be a nice person, but we dont need another non-English speaking immigrant sneaking in via the backdoor. Certainly not a middle aged one that spends so much time in the sun that she may cost the country many tens of thousands in healthcare while you paid £0 to import her. Your second.

1/ My 'first' and her offspring have contributed to UK PLC in the form of taxes and NI contributions.

2/ My second ..if she wanted to live here.. would assuredly also not be a burden on the nation.


Your choices cost the country money. You pay no tax or VAT. You are taking books off school desks and drugs from pensioners who have paid taxes all their lives. 

Why are you still spouting Bollox?

My choices, previously cost the nation how?

Again, my own kids did not use their right to attend state school, so I paid taxes for services never used..   

So, I am CERTAIN your family have cost the state a LOT more than mine have...

I can't support that. Why not take her to live in Cyprus or somewhere? No sun here........

I dont want my taxes paying for your lifestyle choices.

Your closing paragraphs prove you do not pay attention and your continued ignorance to 'my' way of bringing a non-EU wife to here is controlled and income standards are set and IF there was resource to public funds (state benefits) then permanent residency would be out of the question..

How many people do you think use my route to bring in their partner?

I would concern yourself with those who don't pay taxes, claim millions in grants and get paid to be govt ministers whilst stashing the cash elsewhere..and forming Irish entities because of the Brexit they hope to create to ensure less EU wide income scrutiny.

Bizarrely, such folk are people you respect?)

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Re: Are you British or Irish..or both? Courts must decide!
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2019, 11:37:55 AM »

God if only.. I will help you hoping, you guys voted for freedom and you deserve now to get it!

'freedom' ?

From what, exactly?

an undemocratic bureaucracy that infringes more and more on your souvereignity
You can change anything in life, but a BMW only for a BMW
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Re: Are you British or Irish..or both? Courts must decide!
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2019, 12:36:58 PM »
))


If you mean the 'dreaded' EU...then explain how they are 'undemocratic'?

I thought you were referring to the current UK govt...

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Re: Are you British or Irish..or both? Courts must decide!
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2019, 03:35:20 PM »
1/ My 'first' and her offspring have contributed to UK PLC in the form of taxes and NI contributions.

Chicken feed. I'd wager that my and Rosco's VAT, NI and income tax in a quarter exceeds anything they've paid in a decade. Or likely to in the next.

2/ My second ..if she wanted to live here.. would assuredly also not be a burden on the nation.

You dont know that. She'll want HRT soon most likely. Perhaps other expensive healthcare based on her lifestyle choices. Will she eventually be entitled to benefits; even as a pensioner? For sure, she'll not be a productive immigrant bringing a skill that the country needs or generating business activity that pays us decent taxes in exchange for her right of residence via the back door. Certainly, her lack of English skills alone forbid her coming here via the front door, as most married Brits wives have done (Life in the UK test, paid for visas, etc.)

By importing yet another non productive immigrant here free of charge, you - like many others - are abusing our hospitality and abusing the rules designed to help people with a valid right or need. People like you are one of many reasons why we voted to leave the EU - to stop this kind of Brussels-mandated immigration abuse.

So, I am CERTAIN your family have cost the state a LOT more than mine have...

Doubtful. My businesses pay taxes and have done since 1991. We pay Council Tax, NI, income tax, VAT and plenty of indirect taxes on consumption. You pay probably nowt and jolly around the world sofa-surfing, arguing with people over seven dollars worth of petrol while playing at being a ten bob millionaire.

Nothing personal against the woman who is your intended, but for me, she is an unwelcome immigrant here as she will prove to be value negative. I dont want my taxes paying for your lifestyle choices to import yet another non-productive, non English speaking immigrant. 

By gloating online about being able to abuse our country by the use of your second EU passport means you are laughing at us. I hope the UKBA are reading this. 

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Re: Are you British or Irish..or both? Courts must decide!
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2019, 03:24:57 AM »
1/ My 'first' and her offspring have contributed to UK PLC in the form of taxes and NI contributions.



Chicken feed. I'd wager that my and Rosco's VAT, NI and income tax in a quarter exceeds anything they've paid in a decade. Or likely to in the next.

Ooops...Your 'point' was that they would be a burden... They aren't and never have been... Which is what you 'objected' to..

2/ My second ..if she wanted to live here.. would assuredly also not be a burden on the nation.



You dont know that. She'll want HRT soon most likely. Perhaps other expensive healthcare based on her lifestyle choices. Will she eventually be entitled to benefits; even as a pensioner? For sure, she'll not be a productive immigrant bringing a skill that the country needs or generating business activity that pays us decent taxes in exchange for her right of residence via the back door. Certainly, her lack of English skills alone forbid her coming here via the front door, as most married Brits wives have done (Life in the UK test, paid for visas, etc.)

I assuredly do..She has and will have PRIVATE cover... 



By importing yet another non productive immigrant here free of charge, you - like many others - are abusing our hospitality and abusing the rules designed to help people with a valid right or need. People like you are one of many reasons why we voted to leave the EU - to stop this kind of Brussels-mandated immigration abuse.

What 'abuse'?

You KNOW you are busted re the 'first'...you would be 'busted' by 'another' ..if she wanted to reside here..

So, I am CERTAIN your family have cost the state a LOT more than mine have...

I think you are quoting me, here...Did you see Rosco 'object'?))


Doubtful. My businesses pay taxes and have done since 1991. We pay Council Tax, NI, income tax, VAT and plenty of indirect taxes on consumption. You pay probably nowt and jolly around the world sofa-surfing, arguing with people over seven dollars worth of petrol while playing at being a ten bob millionaire.

1/ I have been paying taxes and NI for 12 years longer in MY name..although minus 9 years in CY. I did VERY nicely as a twenty / thirty something, thanks...Whilst not using the state schooling system..

2/ No argument..said tight wad entrusted me with a tiny amount to look after 'his lady'...the money was not mine...the argument was about the timing of the request given we were late for a train that went to Armenia...



Nothing personal against the woman who is your intended, but for me, she is an unwelcome immigrant here as she will prove to be value negative. I dont want my taxes paying for your lifestyle choices to import yet another non-productive, non English speaking immigrant. 

By gloating online about being able to abuse our country by the use of your second EU passport means you are laughing at us. I hope the UKBA are reading this.

IF we apply I will post our UK VISA reference number and you ( or any other person) with an 'objection' can write your reasons for non acceptance.

In the meantime, be honest with members..

You paid nothing like Rosco paid and your wife was not subject to language tests...(though she would have passed)

You are the best example of a 'leave' supporter's ignorance re immigration laws.

 

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Re: Are you British or Irish..or both? Courts must decide!
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2019, 03:48:42 AM »

God if only.. I will help you hoping, you guys voted for freedom and you deserve now to get it!

May be you meant 'freedom' like this family..they are renouncing UK nationality to be Dutch...


They are not outliers..

BBC News - Passports and nationality: The Brits going Dutch over Brexit
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-49695563


I am going out on a limb, here...


Tomorrow is 'crunch day' when the Supreme Court rules on the validity of the Scots Court of Sessions ruling about the suspension of Parliament...it's 'reasoning '..

Not SO long ago certain journals referred to some Judges as enemies of the people...


I am betting said judges may not have forgotten.

I think the Supreme Court may rule the Court of Sessions was CORRECT.

What may follow such a ruling will be more than interesting..  Boris' (extension( letter being sent to the EU by the Court ?..

One could not make this up..

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Re: Are you British or Irish..or both? Courts must decide!
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2019, 05:28:46 AM »
You paid nothing like Rosco paid and your wife was not subject to language tests...(though she would have passed)

I dont know what Rosco paid. I know wifey's visas etc ran into many thousands. And she took a life in the UK test. In English.

You are the best example of a 'leave' supporter's ignorance re immigration laws.

You are a good example of why we need an Australian style points system and control of our own borders back from the EU.

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Re: Are you British or Irish..or both? Courts must decide!
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2019, 06:17:35 AM »
I know wifey's visas etc ran into many thousands. And she took a life in the UK test. In English.

For NATURALISATION ... NOT a spousal visa, surely ..? ANYONE seeking Citizenship has had to pass since 2005

You are the best example of a 'leave' supporter's ignorance re immigration laws.

You are a good example of why we need an Australian style points system and control of our own borders back from the EU.

I based MY statement on your ignorance .. you suggested my family members past and present were / would be a burden - I demonstrated you were 'mistaken'..

YOU suggested some sort of 'illegality' in the EU freedom of movement route ..

Please tell us - is it 'illegal' ? Why would you feel the need to contact the Border Agency?  tiphat



You have demonstrated ignorance and seem upset I didn't pay as much as you to achieve the same result.


I had my Irish passport, already and learnt of the route via a member of this board who did the very same ..



I thank you for this board's usefulness.






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Re: Are you British or Irish..or both? Courts must decide!
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2019, 09:54:45 AM »
YOU suggested some sort of 'illegality' in the EU freedom of movement route ..

Please tell us - is it 'illegal' ? Why would you feel the need to contact the Border Agency?  tiphat

I think you need to learn English. Paraphrasing isn't for you. Your 'natural' English isnt up to it and what comes out is lies.

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Re: Are you British or Irish..or both? Courts must decide!
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2019, 10:02:20 AM »


By gloating online about being able to abuse our country by the use of your second EU passport means you are laughing at us. I hope the UKBA are reading this. 

YOU suggested some sort of 'illegality' in the EU freedom of movement route ..

Please tell us - is it 'illegal' ? Why would you feel the need to contact the Border Agency?  tiphat



I think you need to learn English. Paraphrasing isn't for you. Your 'natural' English isnt up to it and what comes out is lies.

OK, so you said  you hoped the UKBA are reading this... So, tell us ... WHAT will they see as a fib or illegal under current immigration law ?


I was not 'gloating' ... I raised the point as to whether I could use this route, again ... Wiz, STE and I have used it ..  Do you think their better halves are a burden / abusing the system, too ?


What 'we' have seen is that the first time... my former family members were / are anything but abusing the system ..


So, WHAT would the UKBA be interested in ?







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Re: Are you British or Irish..or both? Courts must decide!
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2019, 11:46:00 AM »
I believe it to be unethical to use two nationalities to shop around for the most convenient rule to suit you which isnt in the spirit of which those rules were written.

I believe it to be unethical to import multiple women using said rules in such a way they were not designed for.

I am not an immigration lawyer. I'd like to think UKBA may take an interest in people pulling out an alternative passport to import people into this country when they are in fact British Citizens too; by so doing you are cheating the exchequer out of fees that would normally be charged. Like I said, you are taking books off school desks. Feel proud.

If it is legal to do so, then it shouldn't be. After Brexit, loopholes like this will close.  tiphat

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Re: Are you British or Irish..or both? Courts must decide!
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2019, 11:57:48 AM »
I believe it to be unethical to use two nationalities to shop around for the most convenient rule to suit you which isnt in the spirit of which those rules were written.

I believe it to be unethical to import multiple women using said rules in such a way they were not designed for.

I am not an immigration lawyer. I'd like to think UKBA may take an interest in people pulling out an alternative passport to import people into this country when they are in fact British Citizens too; by so doing you are cheating the exchequer out of fees that would normally be charged. Like I said, you are taking books off school desks. Feel proud.

If it is legal to do so, then it shouldn't be. After Brexit, loopholes like this will close.  tiphat

Now we are getting to it ..

 On the application for the Family Permit Visa - 6 months , First five years residency and Perm residency   - the question is asked if the EU citizen has another nationality  and specifically British - I ALWAYS answered YES as being British .. 

  So, the UKBA have always known my status

I note you dodged my question re Wiz. Ste ..  I wonder why ?

It is not unethical to possess dual nationality . and it  my right to claim both nationalities .  I did not do so to dodge the UK immigration system .. I got the IRL passport because I could and it was less hassle going to the USA


The question is - is it LEGAL ... Hence the thread .. the Courts cannot make up their minds  - as the answer is basically - which is more important  ?  .. The GFA or the British Nationality law .. ..





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Re: Are you British or Irish..or both? Courts must decide!
« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2019, 12:11:42 PM »
It is not unethical to possess dual nationality

I didn't suggest it was. Your 'natural' English is failing you again.

I note you dodged my question re Wiz. Ste ..  I wonder why ?

I can't comment on Ste. He isnt married that I know of (I dont recall the minutiae of their arrangement), so not quite the same, and he appears to not participate here now anyway.

Your mate Wiz also constantly gloats about using EU rules to import his wife for free and by so doing robbing the exchequer of income. He too has taken books off the desks of schoolchildren and cheated the taxpayers of this country by using the same rules for purposes they were not designed for.

Clearly, this loophole is one people are using and it wants closing. As I said, after Brexit we are free to apply our own laws properly. As you once agreed yourself:

If the UK left the EU - such back doors would be closed.

You and Wiz used the Surinder Singh approach, yes?