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Author Topic: Visiting Kiev and making (almost) every possible mistake : Round 2!  (Read 4156 times)

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Offline Habeed

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About me: I've been a member of this site for a long time, but due to circumstances in my life, at the ripe old age of 36 I finally was able to actually get on a plane.  I'm a white male who is 2 inches below average height by U.S. standards (as most members here will know, this drastically lowers my chances on the US side), I look younger than macaulay culkin who's my age, and my BMI is 24.9*.  I work as an embedded software engineer in the USA and earn the typical low six figures most of us make. 

One of the challenges in my search is I don't know what this equates to in "market value"**.  Here in Kiev I see countless versions of the long legged brunette, basically Lily James.  This is what my subconscious mind scores the highest in terms of value - a woman with light brown hair like mine, and the thinner the better.  (ribs showing but not starving basically)  I don't know if I could win over one in her mid 20s, or early 30s, or I have to settle for an overweight woman with children who's 35. 

In Round 1, I visited Kiev in December 2019.  I met with 2 women I met through a single website, UKD:

LS Date 1.  With LS, I met her at Sam's Steak House.  She's a former professional handball player.  She has a pretty face and a great smile.  Our first date, we talk and talk about things in the USA.  I try to explain to her how things like health insurance works, how the legal system works, and so on.  Insightful stuff and I have no game, talking to me has been described as talking to a walking copy of wikipedia.  However, she does smile at what I say and seems to enjoy the conversation.  Here's where I first encounter outright racism in the USA, she asks if it's true we have n******* there.  I explain how you can't ever say the word as a Caucasian person there, how I have black friends and coworkers but unfortunately there are very high crime areas in the USA you must avoid, and those areas are generally high percentages of black people.  At the end of the date we walk and I notice she is significantly taller than me.  Also, she adamantly refuses to wait for the taxi in my apartment, and asks for ~1000 UAH for round trip taxi fare.  We agree to a date the next day at the Kiev War museum.
         I have photos from this date and all subsequent dates, how should I handle faces?

LS Date 2 - We went to the war museum in Kiev with the statue***.  It's quite cold for me outside, but we check out the Hind gunship they have****  We go inside one of the cargo planes, check out the old tanks they have parked, etc.  I notice how LS is concerned about my well being and when she notices I'm cold, we rush inside to the indoor portion of this museum.  As it turns out, this museum graphically illustrates the horrors of war.  They have all sorts of artifacts of death, often placed in spots where museum visitors are tempted to touch them, but the museum is using state of the art security!  Babushka is watching!  They have older women positioned in each room, where you can clearly see they are there and watching you.   I saw this kind of security many places.  LS seems fascinated by the artifacts, like going out to a place like this is new for her.  We then go to a pasta restaurant, after an hour long cab ride through Kiev traffic, where hand rolled fettucine and salmon for 2 people is under $40 U.S. We say our goodbyes.  No physical affection so far, and as usual she gets ~1000 UAH for taxi fare...

SL Date 1 After saying goodbye to LS, I go to meet with SL at a much nicer restaurant.  SL is physically about the best anyone can do.  She listed her age at 27, she has a pretty face, a slim body, and photos from when she competed in bikini fitness competitions.  A hard 9.  (a 10 would be SL at age 20)  We talk and talk, and she engages in the same casual racism as LS.  I was so distracted by her beauty I am having trouble remember what else we talked about.  The restaurant bill is around $80 even though I didn't eat anything, and she departs but only asks for 500 UAH in taxi fare. 

LS Date 3 We go to Grill de Brazil.  It's about $60 for unlimited food for 2 people plus some beers.  We talk and talk, and after the data LS wants to know if we can go watch a movie together.  At this point I might mention another fact about LS - she's somewhat overweight.  By U.S. standards she's not bad, but compared to SL or the average girl I see on the street, LS is fat.  I'm not feeling it, and I send her off, since I am almost late to my date with SL...

SL Date 2 - we eat in a really nice restaurant this time.  It's maximally romantic, with wine and a great view and everything else.  The tab is around $140 US, and again I didn't eat anything.  She kisses me afterwards, rather expertly with tongue and everything.  So..

SL Date 3 This is it.  (I think).  So I buy some nice new expensive clothes from the shop in Gulliver's.  ($240).  I get my hair cut ($15).  I go to see SL looking about as good as possible, and she has me meet in a phone store in Gulliver's.  She's "just shopping".  I...somehow end up buying her a $240 smartphone.

SL/LS Date 4.  This is when my lies catch up to me and I run into LS at the same time I have not gotten rid of SL.    So they meet, it's a little awkward, but we go to eat at the Sushi place in Gulliver's.  Also LS has brought a friend of hers, so now it's 3 girls and just me.  I have to admit this feels pretty good though it's apparently just a typical Tuesday in Kiev.  LS and her friend leave and it's just me and SL.  We make out in the mall lobby but I just can't close the deal. 

SL Date 5 - this time at a hyper expensive place, one right next to some government buildings.  There went another $120 or so.  Again can't close, but she does a little bit of heavy petting.  At this point I'm getting frustrated, this woman seems to be a black hole for my money and also I'm not getting any benefits in return...

LS Date 5 -  We go out to the pizza restaurant in Gulliver's.  As usual, it's far more reasonably priced.  Like $30 for 2 people with desert.  In the mall. 

SL Date 6 - Cafe.  She now needs to buy some medicine at the pharmacy.  Can I say no to a beautiful woman who isn't having sex with me?  I must cringe and admit I paid the bill.  Then she loaded her cart up with over $200 of groceries at the store.  Paid that also...Then she left me alone, again

LS Date 7 - we go to left bank for lunch.  It's about $40 total with cab fare.  We are just dating as friends at this point. 

SL Date 7 - The penultimate.  So SL has been telling this story about how she's getting a new apartment and she needs all new appliances, etc.  So on this date she takes me to a construction site.  Accompanied by some guy, we climb ~15 flights of stairs to see this apartment she claims is going to be hers.  She then has me follow her, not telling me where we are going, until we are at an appliance store.  I'm a fool and I got taken...to this point.  I tell her off, deny her cab fare, and leave. 

*so I still have belly fat but a relatively small amount
**A match exactly at market value would be one where the woman just barely goes through with getting engaged to me, being tempted to switch to other potential partners but never quite hitting the threshold, and then stays married at least 2 years without accusing me of domestic violence to get her Green card early. 
***The Ukrainian State Museum of the Great Patriotic War
**** I find out that bulbous dome will probably not stop 7.62 fire.  Tom Clancy was exaggerating! It looks like you can readily shoot down a Hind with an AK-47 or RPK, which goes to explain all the problems the Soviets would later have in Afghanistan when their own weapons were used against them...

Offline Halo

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Re: Visiting Kiev and making (almost) every possible mistake : Round 2!
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2019, 06:23:30 PM »
SL saw you coming!  That grocery bill is more than a month's worth for a single person.  This is a very common "scam" in Ukraine.  She will return some of those groceries at a discounted price, if they are non perishable.  The phone - stupid on your part, but be happy she didn't ask for the latest IPhone or Samsung.

It isn't typical in Ukraine for dates to bring along girlfriends.  That means the girl has zero interest in you.

You gave too much for taxis, unless the women are travelling over 50 km both ways.

Offline Habeed

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Re: Visiting Kiev and making (almost) every possible mistake : Round 2!
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2019, 07:43:52 PM »
Round 2

As I write this message, on August 3, 2019, I'm in Kiev in my rented apartment, alone.  How has round 2 gone?

This time, I join 3 sites.  UKD, UKDing, and B&L.  I also have successfully lost more than 20 lbs.  (I was overweight but not obese in round 1, now I am technically of normal BMI but I need to lose more to have visible abs)

I messaged a lot more girls.  But I'm pickier this time, and again for convenience reasons focus on girls only from Kiev.  I am noticing that the younger, hotter girls on these sites, if they are on them, tend to be from the contested provinces...

I will see LS again.  We had been talking and she implied, both directly and indirectly, that she would be more sexually receptive, and also I notice she's lost some weight as well.   

LS Date 1 - This was back at Grill Brazil.  I gave her a small token, a bottle of perfume from a duty free shop.  She seemed incredibly happy to see me again and seemed very happy at the restaurant.  However, she makes sure to "call a taxi" before we even get back to my place, basically meaning nothing physical will happen.  I am irritated with this - she makes excuses and keeps talking about how she must be at home right away.  I'm annoyed with her dissembling. 

I am somewhat doubtful about having a physical relationship with this woman as well - she's lost weight but still isn't particularly sexy to me.  I can't pick her up, her belly gets in the way, I don't like how her breasts sag and there are still some rolls of fat when you hug her.  But I am annoyed that she can't just say "I'm leaving because I don't want to do anything sexual with you". 

IR Date 1 - so I go out with IR.  So, apparently, Ukraine has more females than men.  This is unusual though I have read that some beautiful women are theorized to have genes that make children more likely to be girls than boys, which makes evolutionary sense.  Well, who did the boys of IR decide wasn't worthy of their attention?  Who did they kick to the curb and at 29 she's already setting up as an "old maid", with her knitting, her cats, and still living with mother?

That's IR.  She's a bit shorter than me, somewhat impoverished as she works for the UK government, and doesn't speak much english.  She looks good in a dress but is overweight, but again by U.S. standards not by much.  She just doesn't have good legs, has a somewhat plain face, and is a vegan, loves her cats, and is religious.  Oh and knits these hideous handmade dolls to make extra money.  I kiss her during out first date and things feel like they could really go somewhere physically...but I don't want to take advantage of her.  After the date, knowing about her vegan preference, religious preference, and the fact that she's basically in the bottom 3-5% or something out of all the Kiev girls I see on the street, I'm not feeling it. 

I feel like I could frankly have IR with ease, and just go fill out the fiance paperwork.  She seems instantly smitten with me, I doubt she has better prospects.  Cost of this date?  I voluntarily gave her 350 UAH to get her data plan restored and for metro fare.  She didn't want to accept my money.

But I think with my big head and realize that (1) if someone is instantly willing to do a deal, you're offering way more than market value.  (2)  Someone who's a vegan is very mentally stubborn.  It's one thing to not eat large, possibly intelligent animals like red meat.  Or even chicken.  But fish?  Eggs?  There's not much going on there brain wise.  To be vegan is to voluntarily choose to make suboptimal decisions for yourself.  What other suboptimal decisions might she stubbornly decide to stick to later in a marriage?  (similar argument against religion)

Nt Date 1 : This one is SL^2.  Basically the same girl, similar face, similar expensive tastes, similar moneygrabbing for no play attitude.  But I talk with her, and find out she already has her visa.  She's literally a divorced housewife who lives in a condo in Florida.  Right away I realize there's no deal to be had here - if I did get her to choose me somehow (after presumably throwing a lot of money in her general direction) - by definition this is a match below market rate.  (because theoretically I could find a more attractive girl who I can also offer a visa to and that match would also work)  Also, as a ballerina in her 20s, she bragged about meeting various rich and famous people - basically to her, my mere 6 figure income is sorta a commoner sort of income.  But she tells me of her sister, who supposedly has an MD, and I ask to meet her sister.  Oh, and about 3 scraps of food and some drinks with no alcohol at the restaurant she chooses is $140.   But hey, I'm learning, I got off cheaper...

LS Date 2 So I cancel on LS for lunch and let her know it's because I'm seeing another girl and that a contributing factor in this decision was her choice to leave me instead of making out or doing anything physical at all on our first date.  So this "playa" move of mine results in me actually getting to touch her at all, and to cuddle with her a bit.  Basically about half as much as I did with IR within an hour of meeting her.  We eat sushi and drink champagne in my apartment, and it costs just $40 US, and I playfully give her a rump slap as she leaves. 

LS Date 3 This one, we go to the zoo outside Kiev and see all the animals.  Have an adventure riding some propane powered jalopy of a taxi there.  It's only 350 UAH for the trip....LS claims her village is about this far out, and remember she always asks for 1000-1200 UAH for taxi....  Well, tbh, I always knew she was skimming a little for herself but it's like 10-20 USD so w/e.  We then go to blockbuster mall and drive go-carts.  I absolutely thrash everyone on the course, lapping LS several times.  (yeah so ok I thrash some other random teenagers who have probably never driven a car before but anyways...)  Try out the VR and flight sim in the arcade, then go back to the apartment...where she announces she's on her period and also a taxi is arriving soon.  I tell her that she's making a choice here and she leaves.

Afterwards on WhatsApp I ask her if she's ever been in a relationship.  She then claims she's had sex only 5 times in her life, and has only ever had a single boyfriend, over the 10 years since she was 18.  Or 14 years or so since a typical woman starts to explore her sexuality.  So, ok, this is a dealbreaker.  Because either (a) she lied and in fact is a normal woman, she just doesn't find me attractive, which is fine, I only marginally find her attractive myself.  Or (b) she's telling the truth, and has minimal libido.  Which is a massive dealbreaker as well.  If I wanted an overweight, emotionally supportive woman who won't have sex with me, I have U.S. friends who meet that description.  Several of them have been hot, despite my analytical writing style here I'm great at being that friend that women talk to all the time but never want to have sex with...

So I'm just about out of girls.

Today, I dated Nt's sister.  We went out but...the restaurant bill was $240.  Not only steep but enough to make me suspect she and her "sister" were just out for a free meal + a commission from the restaurant.  The two girls have no resemblance.  Still, Nt's sister did seem nice, speaks 4 languages, is a ballet instructor, supposedly also has a medical degree.  I was unable to get her to confirm any specific piece of knowledge to let me confirm that she has the degree she claims, and in any case at age 33 or so she probably would not be able to get a medical residency in the USA and practice.  I suspect the best she could do is become a Physician's Assistant by going back to school in the USA for the 2 years it takes.  Which does pay well, a dual income household with 2 professional jobs is obviously what you want to have in the USA.  Plus her hair is so expensive to maintain that some of that 97k average PA salary would go just to that...

  Also, at her age she basically needs to have kids in the near future, so there's that.  Honestly she's the best girl so far if she's even real, and not just Nt's friend and ripping me off.  Not sure on that part. 

But her "sister" is going to Odessa or something the day after tomorrow, or so she says, so we could see each other maybe once today before she's gone and I wouldn't be able to see her again for months.   

So Now What: I need more time in Ukraine to make this work.  10 days at a time here and there just isn't nearly enough.  I need a job that lets me "work from home" so I can fly over here and really play the field for a few weeks at a time while still reporting to work.  I need to learn at least some basic Russian or Ukrainian.  And I feel a lot of time pressure - I think I look pretty good for my age, and I'm under 40, but neither will be true for much longer. 

Sometimes I wonder if marriage is even worth the hassle.  Maybe what I actually want is a mistress.  Why "own" a depreciating, used asset when you can lease a "new" asset.  (as in, have a mistress who's in her early 20s and is one of the hotter examples of the girls I see all over Kiev).  From a rational perspective, in terms of the amount of good sex per dollar spent, (aka bang/buck) it is most likely optimal to have a mistress from a country such as this one with a low price-level in dollars. 


Offline Habeed

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Re: Visiting Kiev and making (almost) every possible mistake : Round 2!
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2019, 07:51:22 PM »
SL saw you coming!  That grocery bill is more than a month's worth for a single person.  This is a very common "scam" in Ukraine.  She will return some of those groceries at a discounted price, if they are non perishable.  The phone - stupid on your part, but be happy she didn't ask for the latest IPhone or Samsung.

It isn't typical in Ukraine for dates to bring along girlfriends.  That means the girl has zero interest in you.

You gave too much for taxis, unless the women are travelling over 50 km both ways.

Thanks for the reply.  Ok, yes, I read the Elena's Model's article on "Pro-Daters".  I know now that SL probably returned everything she could I bought her.  She didn't need the phone...she already had an iphone like basically every girl in Kiev no matter their income level...she was going to return it.  So in reality I just paid her $500 or so in total to "date" me...money if I had spent on a prostitute instead I would have gotten a much better ROI...

Thank you for letting me know that LS has zero interest.  Damn if you read the next part you will see where I eventually get to that understanding, several dates and several hundred dollars later...

How can I ask a woman to verify her taxi bill?  They always call someone, they never use the uber app or anything... (and no, the driver who comes to pick her up is usually fat and ugly, and probably not her boyfriend...so I at least I am not getting taken for that specific scam)

Should I just give up on Ukraine entirely, or Kiev entirely?  I feel like the scamming percentage is near 100%...

How do I solve the problem that basically only the "rejects" of the dating market go to sites like UKD, etc.  Maybe this problem can't be solved, but it's despiriting to be walking with the worst looking girl of her age on the whole damn street here in Kiev.  It makes you think that all the other girls there can't all have better matches than me.  And they aren't matching with USA millionaires, only 750 girls total leave through the K-1 program a year.  Most Ukraine girls are going to either stay single, marry a european, or marry a ukrainian. 

My next thought is maybe I need professional help.  I think I'm an ok looking guy.  I check out the guys on UKD who are competing with me, and by my biased opinion, I'm not bad.(I am younger looking and skinnier than basically all of the competition, but not taller.  Then again, a 6' man in the USA...will have good prospects on the USA side usually)  Maybe if I could just find some dates with legitimate girls who are actually interested, but not total spinsters who no one wants, eventually I could find someone who's a good match. 

CQMI Matchmaking CA sounds like they might be actually legitimate, if they really are based in a Western country.  (since they would potentially go to jail if they defraud their customers).   One major problem with such agencies is that, ok, CQMI wants $1000 to find you 3 girls, $3000 to find you 8.  Sounds expensive...but if they had saved me from meeting SL and LS, I would have saved the fee right there.  All $3000 of it. 

But CQMI could just do what the PPL fraudulent sites do, and pay the girls to date me*.  Plenty of money in the quoted prices for that.
*just once and platonically

Offline Habeed

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Re: Visiting Kiev and making (almost) every possible mistake : Round 2!
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2019, 08:24:07 PM »
Oh, and one remarkable thing I have noticed that I am going to highlight.  These Kiev girls have irrational, unreasonable jealously.  Remember LS, the girl who I've gone on 9 dates with without so much of a cheek peck?  When I introduced her to SL, or when I let her know I was cancelling lunch to talk to a different girl, she got quite jealous both times and said many things.  Found that Nt also is this way, and so is SL, and so is IR, and so on.
 
Each girl seems to want to believe you are seeing only them, and that other women don't exist.  Even from the first date, even if they have denied your advances and refuse to sleep with you, nevertheless, that penis of yours that they have never touched still belongs to them...

Online Lord of the Dance

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Re: Visiting Kiev and making (almost) every possible mistake : Round 2!
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2019, 10:13:14 PM »
nevertheless, that penis of yours that they have never touched still belongs to them...

That's why I've heard that most Ukrainian women carry an adequately sharp folding knife in their purse.  :)
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Offline Halo

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Re: Visiting Kiev and making (almost) every possible mistake : Round 2!
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2019, 01:36:26 AM »
Quote
that penis of yours that they have never touched still belongs to them...

It's not your penis that's valuable.  It's your wallet.

You can't ask a woman to verify a taxi.  She probably isn't taking a taxi, and is splitting the money you give her with whoever is giving her a lift.

Fleecing foreigners is an industry in Ukraine, and there is no shame in doing so.  In fact, it's considered "clever".  Even native Ukrainians no longer living in Ukraine, if identified as such, are subject to this.

Quote
Maybe this problem can't be solved, but it's despiriting to be walking with the worst looking girl of her age on the whole damn street here in Kiev. Kyiv

This is your main problem, and frankly, it can't be solved.   The attitude will ensure you will never succeed in the FSU.  It's probably best for you to date locally.

Offline Habeed

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Re: Visiting Kiev and making (almost) every possible mistake : Round 2!
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2019, 03:11:56 AM »
Quote
Maybe this problem can't be solved, but it's despiriting to be walking with the worst looking girl of her age on the whole damn street here in Kiev. Kyiv

This is your main problem, and frankly, it can't be solved.   The attitude will ensure you will never succeed in the FSU.  It's probably best for you to date locally.

?!  Even the worst looking girl is generally decent compared to what's available in the USA.  She's overweight but not obese.  And how is this an "attitude".  I am simply observing and noticing I'm not doing well in relative terms.  This is a valid observation.  If you bought a used car and then figured out that yours has the most mechanical problems and you also paid more than everyone in your whole city, you'd feel pretty bad, right?   Even if it turned out that once you ship the car to your home you find it was a bargain price back home.

Maybe I can't do better.  Maybe I can.  But the reason I'm not succeeding better so far is the girls who would be 'average' (for their age) on the street aren't even on the sites that cater to foreigners like me I have tried.  (UKD, UKDing, B&L)  Certainly not with profiles they check if they are even there.

Hence my thought of maybe I need to change my search strategy.  And sure, learning the language and culture would help.  It's not as if I am unwilling to do so, I just haven't yet. 

Anyways, I find this post of yours pointlessly defeatist and negative.  I mean, so I'm just another foreigner here.  But I'm trying, 10 years before most men do.  I don't believe I'm "entitled" to anyone, I'm just observing that if my matches are in the bottom 5%, maybe I can do better.  This is a reasonable assumption.

If you had a job offer and it pays in the bottom 5% of your profession, and to take that offer would lock you out of taking other jobs for a several year period at least, are you saying you should just take it?  (software) Job interviews these days have a language of their own, it's practically like learning a foreign language and culture in itself.  As a foreigner to things like "geek4geeks", you are going to get a low offer if you get one at all.

Are you saying that I'm incapable of learning?  [insult removed]

Online andrewfi

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Re: Visiting Kiev and making (almost) every possible mistake : Round 2!
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2019, 03:28:14 AM »
Up your game and find a woman in the USA. Ukraine has nothing that you need and everything you want has no interest in you.

And, NO NO NO, being slightly less tall than some people is not a guarantee of failure. Your accepting it as such IS a guarantee of failure.

Spend some of your very adequate salary on a decent therapist and get some control over your emotional life. Right now you are a soft beta, radiating a solid cuck vibe to all who see you. An emotionally sensitive woman (the women you meet!) will wring you dry and chuck the twisted remains away like a piece of used toilet paper.
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Online Steveboy

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Re: Visiting Kiev and making (almost) every possible mistake : Round 2!
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2019, 04:04:48 AM »
Should I just give up on Ukraine entirely, or Kiev entirely?  I feel like the scamming percentage is near 100%...


You are wasting your time in Ukraine.. especially a guy your age. you have no chance what so ever of finding a young Ukrainian girl for any type of relationship other than financial..

There are NO young Ukrainian women for marriage the few that say they are just  want your money!

It will not be easy for you in any FSU country being 36 years old.. but if you want at least a little chance better to try Russia/Belarusia or Moldova..
I support no government anywhere, ever, never. No institution, No religion!!

Offline Habeed

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Re: Visiting Kiev and making (almost) every possible mistake : Round 2!
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2019, 04:24:33 AM »
You are wasting your time in Ukraine.. especially a guy your age. you have no chance what so ever of finding a young Ukrainian girl for any type of relationship other than financial..

There are NO young Ukrainian women for marriage the few that say they are just  want your money!

It will not be easy for you in any FSU country being 36 years old.. but if you want at least a little chance better to try Russia/Belarusia or Moldova..

Ok, you have actual data to back this up.  I mean I have a subscription to two of your sites.  (you own or are involved in both B&L and UKDing, right?)

And yes your sites seem to have almost all older women.  Also my inbox is flooded from mails from them. 

So if I am seeking a 28 year old, you're saying Ukraine is a waste of time, and I should be trying Russia, Belarusia, or Moldova.  Ok. 

What's your definition of young, so we're clear?  How old do I need to be before I have an "easy" time in an FSU country? 

What do you define as an 'easy' time?  It seems like there are a certain grade of women (spinsters who 0 Ukrainian men are interested in...) that I can probably have easily.  Maybe that's the best I can do, I'm just trying to find out what's available. 

What if I get into shape and get a steroid pumped body with a six pack?  (don't do drugs, kids...)  Hypothetically would that make any noticeable difference?

Or, what if I were able to find a U.S. company that let's me work from home for a few weeks at a time, so I can get significantly more days here per year...or in one of the other hotspots you refer to.  This seems like it would help more than anything.

You have far more data on this than I ever will, so I eager look forwards to seeing your reply.

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Re: Visiting Kiev and making (almost) every possible mistake : Round 2!
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2019, 04:33:59 AM »
Thanks for the read.....

I went to Ukraine on my first trip at 27/28 (about 10 years ago) and met a young lady who I would consider a 9. We met several times again after and the relationship came with all sorts of issues but I had my fun. I was prepared for a holiday experience with the benefit of a sexy girls company. To be fair I never really liked Ukraine and I found the whole experience to be one where I was always sceptical about values. Other guys will have a different journey but I enjoyed the experience as a whole and learned a lot.

I then went to Minsk a few years later and ended up meeting my wife, we've been together ever since. What was different this time? Well we spent weeks talking about all sorts in the build up to my visit and when I got to BY, everything felt more genuine. Our relationship never had the same drama as Ukraine, and taxi's, restaurants and shopping never filled me with scepticism.

I'm not sure this game is for you or perhaps you need to look at somewhere other than Ukraine? I'm not being a dick here but try looking at home and working on it. I started travelling east for an adventure but also to look for pastures new. I'd had plenty GF's and one night stands but I felt I'd run out of material.

Wrong.....sometimes you just don't look in the right place. I think you'll just waste a heap of cash heading back there to date bang average girls whilst chugging over the hotties. You'd have been as well spending your doe on a cat walk hooker by the sounds of it.

Offline Habeed

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Re: Visiting Kiev and making (almost) every possible mistake : Round 2!
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2019, 04:34:11 AM »
Up your game and find a woman in the USA. Ukraine has nothing that you need and everything you want has no interest in you.

And, NO NO NO, being slightly less tall than some people is not a guarantee of failure. Your accepting it as such IS a guarantee of failure.

Spend some of your very adequate salary on a decent therapist and get some control over your emotional life. Right now you are a soft beta, radiating a solid cuck vibe to all who see you. An emotionally sensitive woman (the women you meet!) will wring you dry and chuck the twisted remains away like a piece of used toilet paper.

This is not a very helpful post.  Even if you are correct, and I'm not denying it, you could phrase your opinion in a more constructive way.  You do realize that no licensed therapist can treat someone for being 'beta'.  The reason I am like that is obviously a mixture of experiences and genetics.  A more constructive thing to say would be something like "well, you need to learn to hit the ball and get runs before you try to play against the best.  I suggest working on your "street game" in <x country> or whatever.  Whatever the people who preach the concept of "betas" and "players" and "the game" recommend. 

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Re: Visiting Kiev and making (almost) every possible mistake : Round 2!
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2019, 04:36:10 AM »
Or, what if I were able to find a U.S. company that let's me work from home for a few weeks at a time, so I can get significantly more days here per year...or in one of the other hotspots you refer to.

You'll need that anyway, should you meet the right lady.

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Re: Visiting Kiev and making (almost) every possible mistake : Round 2!
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2019, 04:48:13 AM »
You are wasting your time in Ukraine.. especially a guy your age. you have no chance what so ever of finding a young Ukrainian girl for any type of relationship other than financial..

There are NO young Ukrainian women for marriage the few that say they are just  want your money!

It will not be easy for you in any FSU country being 36 years old.. but if you want at least a little chance better to try Russia/Belarusia or Moldova..

Ok, you have actual data to back this up.  I mean I have a subscription to two of your sites.  (you own or are involved in both B&L and UKDing, right?)

And yes your sites seem to have almost all older women.  Also my inbox is flooded from mails from them. 

So if I am seeking a 28 year old, you're saying Ukraine is a waste of time, and I should be trying Russia, Belarusia, or Moldova.  Ok. 

What's your definition of young, so we're clear?  How old do I need to be before I have an "easy" time in an FSU country? 

What do you define as an 'easy' time?  It seems like there are a certain grade of women (spinsters who 0 Ukrainian men are interested in...) that I can probably have easily.  Maybe that's the best I can do, I'm just trying to find out what's available. 

What if I get into shape and get a steroid pumped body with a six pack?  (don't do drugs, kids...)  Hypothetically would that make any noticeable difference?

Or, what if I were able to find a U.S. company that let's me work from home for a few weeks at a time, so I can get significantly more days here per year...or in one of the other hotspots you refer to.  This seems like it would help more than anything.

You have far more data on this than I ever will, so I eager look forwards to seeing your reply.



I can assure you near every young women in Ukraine is a fake or a scammer..

https://www.facebook.com/CupidGuardcom-1946518872238288/

How old are you? 36? As I said it will not be easy as young women are no longer leaving FSU countries anymore.. BUT it is still possible, just takes lots of work..

As for my web sites , yes your mostly going to find women over 36/7/8 on the sites as the youngest.. any women younger than that on the sites are probably suspended or about to.. so no fairy stories.. any young women writing to you will probably be fake , that is how it is unfortunately ..

If your 36 years old my best advice is to pursue a women 35/36 Co's anyone younger and your on mission impossible..

But for absolute sure DO NOT waste your time in Ukraine.. I would only suggest going to Ukraine if you are seeking an older women 40/60 in which case its as easy as 1-2-3

https://bridesandlovers.com/ukrainian-older-mature-brides     Any guy who is serious about finding a mature Ukrainian women or a women within a realistic age group is on to a winner..



I support no government anywhere, ever, never. No institution, No religion!!

Offline Habeed

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Re: Visiting Kiev and making (almost) every possible mistake : Round 2!
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2019, 04:54:05 AM »
How old are you? 36? As I said it will not be easy as young women are no longer leaving FSU countries anymore.. BUT it is still possible, just takes lots of work..

As for my web sites , yes your mostly going to find women over 36/7/8 on the sites as the youngest..

Ahem, I do have 2 prospects, one 29, one 30.  Just both prime "spinsters" -> that is, there's a reason none of the locals wanted them.    One was significantly more overweight and still doesn't look that good, another has another significant set of drawbacks.  You're being rather negative for a guy who makes money from selling dreams...  The whole FSU is closed?  All of it?  Since what year?

I mean this place is a hot female ocean.  You're saying that there's no way to get a single one of these girls, at all, anywhere.  (besides the obvious way - just pay one to be your mistress.  Might actually be cheaper than a wife is long term...)

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Re: Visiting Kiev and making (almost) every possible mistake : Round 2!
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2019, 05:36:00 AM »
How old are you? 36? As I said it will not be easy as young women are no longer leaving FSU countries anymore.. BUT it is still possible, just takes lots of work..

As for my web sites , yes your mostly going to find women over 36/7/8 on the sites as the youngest..

Ahem, I do have 2 prospects, one 29, one 30.  Just both prime "spinsters" -> that is, there's a reason none of the locals wanted them.    One was significantly more overweight and still doesn't look that good, another has another significant set of drawbacks.  You're being rather negative for a guy who makes money from selling dreams...  The whole FSU is closed?  All of it?  Since what year?




I mean this place is a hot female ocean.  You're saying that there's no way to get a single one of these girls, at all, anywhere.  (besides the obvious way - just pay one to be your mistress.  Might actually be cheaper than a wife is long term...)


You're being rather negative for a guy who makes money from selling dreams.

I don't sell dreams and have never made out to!!  But I do tell the truth and will give honest frank advice which works better .. so I win win all the time.. members will always return.. works very well for guys over 40/45 .. unfortunately for younger guys there is not much I can do other than tell you to work hard and do not give up.. first way to succeed is understand it is going to be a long trip.. 2/3 years..and lots of trips..


You're saying that there's no way to get a single one of these girls, at all, anywhere

Nearly yes! I will presume your looking for a girl 28/35 years old.. it is not going to be easy.. nearly mission impossible.. Take my advice and forget about Ukraine
try Russia.. It will not be easy in Russia either BUT the women there will not all be out to rob you like in Ukraine!


And lastly!! Please do not take this the wrong way Im just telling you how it is.. Your name is Habeed so I would presume your kind of Middle Eastern guy , if you know what I mean.. that is going to make it a little bit harder for you most FSU women (Not all) seek white guys.. it is how it is..but do not let that put you off! There are plenty of guys as yourself here in St Petersburg dating or married to Russian women..

Of course some women like to date Colored guys, some like to date Indian guys and so on... but if your not white 100% it makes it a little harder.. just saying how it is..




I support no government anywhere, ever, never. No institution, No religion!!

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Re: Visiting Kiev and making (almost) every possible mistake : Round 2!
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2019, 05:38:03 AM »
Habeed, I am not a therapist. I do not play one on TV.

However, as a man, a person, I can see that you have issues. I used commonplace terminology to describe what I saw. I very much doubt that anything I wrote about you is inaccurate. Find someone who uses words that you like to help you deal with the issues you know you have.

Only then will you be able to start to find somebody who is compatible with you - and you will not need to be going to a country where you are set up to be a victim. You can find the good things you need right where you are.

Look at what you are going on about 'settling' for 'spinsters'. What the hell is in your mind? Have you no self-respect?

These might be lovely women, but your attitude, revealed in just a few words, is insightful. Do you want to be with a woman, for life, that you fundamentally disrespect? That's horrible for her, and for you.

Here's the thing, you need to come to understand what you have to offer. Learn what women want and need and offer those things. Understand what the woman you want needs and give it to her. She will love you and all you have to do is keep on giving it. Right now you seem to be wanting to get something for nothing. You are happy to drop your cash because that's easy for you. It is also easy for the recipients to take advantage of you but that's not how a relationship is built.

I can tell you all that, and it is all very true, but until you understand it and live it you will not find what you really want.
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

Offline Habeed

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Re: Visiting Kiev and making (almost) every possible mistake : Round 2!
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2019, 05:43:02 AM »
Habeed, I am not a therapist. I do not play one on TV.

However, as a man, a person, I can see that you have issues. I used commonplace terminology to describe what I saw. I very much doubt that anything I wrote about you is inaccurate. Find someone who uses words that you like to help you deal with the issues you know you have.

Only then will you be able to start to find somebody who is compatible with you - and you will not need to be going to a country where you are set up to be a victim. You can find the good things you need right where you are.

Here are the things I find wrong with your statement.  You speak of a problem there is no known way to fix, and you are ignoring the reality of markets and barriers.  Even if I count the women who haven't ripped me off (IR hasn't, LS is doing a really slow job of it) I am getting more attention from slimmer women than I would in a year in the USA.  Basically right now I am getting the same bottom of the barrel women I would in the USA - except they are just mildly overweight not so large they may fall dead at any moment.

Offline Habeed

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Re: Visiting Kiev and making (almost) every possible mistake : Round 2!
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2019, 05:47:21 AM »
How old are you? 36? As I said it will not be easy as young women are no longer leaving FSU countries anymore.. BUT it is still possible, just takes lots of work..

As for my web sites , yes your mostly going to find women over 36/7/8 on the sites as the youngest..

Ahem, I do have 2 prospects, one 29, one 30.  Just both prime "spinsters" -> that is, there's a reason none of the locals wanted them.    One was significantly more overweight and still doesn't look that good, another has another significant set of drawbacks.  You're being rather negative for a guy who makes money from selling dreams...  The whole FSU is closed?  All of it?  Since what year?




I mean this place is a hot female ocean.  You're saying that there's no way to get a single one of these girls, at all, anywhere.  (besides the obvious way - just pay one to be your mistress.  Might actually be cheaper than a wife is long term...)


You're being rather negative for a guy who makes money from selling dreams.

I don't sell dreams and have never made out to!!  But I do tell the truth and will give honest frank advice which works better .. so I win win all the time.. members will always return.. works very well for guys over 40/45 .. unfortunately for younger guys there is not much I can do other than tell you to work hard and do not give up.. first way to succeed is understand it is going to be a long trip.. 2/3 years..and lots of trips..


You're saying that there's no way to get a single one of these girls, at all, anywhere

Nearly yes! I will presume your looking for a girl 28/35 years old.. it is not going to be easy.. nearly mission impossible.. Take my advice and forget about Ukraine
try Russia.. It will not be easy in Russia either BUT the women there will not all be out to rob you like in Ukraine!


And lastly!! Please do not take this the wrong way Im just telling you how it is.. Your name is Habeed so I would presume your kind of Middle Eastern guy , if you know what I mean.. that is going to make it a little bit harder for you most FSU women (Not all) seek white guys.. it is how it is..but do not let that put you off! There are plenty of guys as yourself here in St Petersburg dating or married to Russian women..

Of course some women like to date Colored guys, some like to date Indian guys and so on... but if your not white 100% it makes it a little harder.. just saying how it is..

Thanks for letting me know the Russian women are less ripoff prone.  Also, knowing how it is is valuable information.  Even if you are completely right and none of the attractive girls with remaining childbearing potential will go home with me, there is still a way to get what I want.  (Step 1, get a job with more remote flexibility.  Step 2 find a mistress for I suspect a third or less the cost.  There is no step 3)

Also, I am not Indian.  True blood American and I have the same brunettes hair and green eyes as the girls I am after.  In fact I have lost almost none of it so far.

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Re: Visiting Kiev and making (almost) every possible mistake : Round 2!
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2019, 05:51:12 AM »
How old are you? 36? As I said it will not be easy as young women are no longer leaving FSU countries anymore.. BUT it is still possible, just takes lots of work..

As for my web sites , yes your mostly going to find women over 36/7/8 on the sites as the youngest..

Ahem, I do have 2 prospects, one 29, one 30.  Just both prime "spinsters" -> that is, there's a reason none of the locals wanted them.    One was significantly more overweight and still doesn't look that good, another has another significant set of drawbacks.  You're being rather negative for a guy who makes money from selling dreams...  The whole FSU is closed?  All of it?  Since what year?




I mean this place is a hot female ocean.  You're saying that there's no way to get a single one of these girls, at all, anywhere.  (besides the obvious way - just pay one to be your mistress.  Might actually be cheaper than a wife is long term...)


You're being rather negative for a guy who makes money from selling dreams.

I don't sell dreams and have never made out to!!  But I do tell the truth and will give honest frank advice which works better .. so I win win all the time.. members will always return.. works very well for guys over 40/45 .. unfortunately for younger guys there is not much I can do other than tell you to work hard and do not give up.. first way to succeed is understand it is going to be a long trip.. 2/3 years..and lots of trips..


You're saying that there's no way to get a single one of these girls, at all, anywhere

Nearly yes! I will presume your looking for a girl 28/35 years old.. it is not going to be easy.. nearly mission impossible.. Take my advice and forget about Ukraine
try Russia.. It will not be easy in Russia either BUT the women there will not all be out to rob you like in Ukraine!


And lastly!! Please do not take this the wrong way Im just telling you how it is.. Your name is Habeed so I would presume your kind of Middle Eastern guy , if you know what I mean.. that is going to make it a little bit harder for you most FSU women (Not all) seek white guys.. it is how it is..but do not let that put you off! There are plenty of guys as yourself here in St Petersburg dating or married to Russian women..

Of course some women like to date Colored guys, some like to date Indian guys and so on... but if your not white 100% it makes it a little harder.. just saying how it is..

Thanks for letting me know the Russian women are less ripoff prone.  Also, knowing how it is is valuable information.  Even if you are completely right and none of the attractive girls with remaining childbearing potential will go home with me, there is still a way to get what I want.  (Step 1, get a job with more remote flexibility.  Step 2 find a mistress for I suspect a third or less the cost.  There is no step 3)

Also, I am not Indian.  True blood American and I have the same brunettes hair and green eyes as the girls I am after.  In fact I have lost almost none of it so far.

(Step 1, get a job with more remote flexibility.

That is the best option for a younger guy and in fact there are already hundreds doing it in our city.. You can find a younger women for sure then! There are plenty of younger guys at the International Universities here.. most have your Russian girl friends .. if your living here it is another story! it's as easy as 1-2-3 ..

I support no government anywhere, ever, never. No institution, No religion!!

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Re: Visiting Kiev and making (almost) every possible mistake : Round 2!
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2019, 05:51:40 AM »
Steveboy you are making it sound like it's mission impossible!  It's actually quite easy if you know what you are doing.

I was in Russia this year. Met alot of new girls 20's and 30's. If you speak even basic Russian and are half intelligent you will do ok.

The methods used of yesteryear don't work.  No one I know goes for a 2 week visit trying to find a wife.  You need to spend 1-2 months there living like a local and getting a feel for the place.

Honestly most of the "advice" here is useless.   Next time I am in Moscow, if you come over I'll show you around.  Get your Russian tourist visa, be prepared to spend 2-3 weeks here and start learning Russian.

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Re: Visiting Kiev and making (almost) every possible mistake : Round 2!
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2019, 05:52:40 AM »
Habeed, go get some help. Really.

Of course, there are solutions to your problems. You are not unique. You're just a lonely, insecure bloke who wants stuff he can't (right now) have. You are one among millions.

The help you get, if you use what you learn, will shortcircuit years of failure and wasted energy. You will stop talking of women in the way that you do right now and make a move ahead.
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

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Re: Visiting Kiev and making (almost) every possible mistake : Round 2!
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2019, 05:56:10 AM »
And, yes, Steveboy is also right!

If you want to meet women as your equals, women who are genuinely attractive, then take the time to do so. Build a network, your girlfriends will come from girls who are your friends.
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

Offline Habeed

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Re: Visiting Kiev and making (almost) every possible mistake : Round 2!
« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2019, 07:17:20 AM »
Habeed, go get some help. Really.

Of course, there are solutions to your problems. You are not unique. You're just a lonely, insecure bloke who wants stuff he can't (right now) have. You are one among millions.

The help you get, if you use what you learn, will shortcircuit years of failure and wasted energy. You will stop talking of women in the way that you do right now and make a move ahead.

Dude, just stop.  There is no licensed or accredited "help".  Nor is feeling insecure nothing but a normal human thing.  If you are going to just say useless things why not just say I need to be younger and taller.