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Author Topic: Brexit II  (Read 38595 times)

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Online AvHdB

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Brexit II
« on: December 04, 2016, 10:20:51 PM »
It is amusing in one sense to see this discussion continue as the UK politicians drag there feet.

On the other side if the Brexit vote will not wake up Brussels does the Italian vote help the cause?

I suspect that Wiz as well as myself see the end of the European Union, as it is now, in our generation. The sad reality is not because of regulation (though most realize there is to much), and not because of monetary policy (the policy is not the issue it is the execution), or sentiment most members of the European Union have no problem with each other (OK perhaps the Italian garlic eaters and those dammed Greek olive farmers as well those French grape juice frogs.)

A bunch of self serving bureaucrats will kill there own Golden Goose in Brussels.

“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

Offline msmoby

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Re: Brexit II
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2016, 12:21:52 AM »
Ah yes, the leftoid champagne guzzling liberatii are revelling in this victory. They think it's the great comeback of the cleggies and a second referendum on the cards.  :ROFL:


DS

It was a backlash of electorate pointing out that Brexit must not be hard.. a shot across the bows of the govt... who said, 'we're carrying on' ..

Seeing Labour lost their deposit ..you demonstrate just how knowledgeable you are about the make up of this constituency..The result is up there with the 10 biggest bi-election shocks in history.. The govt ignores Witney and Richmond at it's peril..

As for Labour..they have already confirmed they will be the govt on article 50 en masse - so today's Supreme Court hearing result on any Commons vote being necessary is irrelevant..

'weak socialists' is indeed appropriate for THAT ;)

The biggest surprise of the weekend its the far right NOT winning the presidency in Austria..
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Offline Dogsoldier

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Re: Brexit II
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2016, 03:06:29 AM »
Ah yes, the leftoid champagne guzzling liberatii are revelling in this victory. They think it's the great comeback of the cleggies and a second referendum on the cards.  :ROFL:


DS

It was a backlash of electorate pointing out that Brexit must not be hard.. a shot across the bows of the govt... who said, 'we're carrying on' ..

Seeing Labour lost their deposit ..you demonstrate just how knowledgeable you are about the make up of this constituency..The result is up there with the 10 biggest bi-election shocks in history.. The govt ignores Witney and Richmond at it's peril..

As for Labour..they have already confirmed they will be the govt on article 50 en masse - so today's Supreme Court hearing result on any Commons vote being necessary is irrelevant..

'weak socialists' is indeed appropriate for THAT ;)

The biggest surprise of the weekend its the far right NOT winning the presidency in Austria..
The Liberal fuzziness is left of centre and one can lump together all the Bremoaners in this category irrespective of party affiliation.


Online andrewfi

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Re: Brexit II
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2016, 03:11:42 AM »
AvHdB, if you think that there is dragging of feet going on in the British civil service and political class at the moment then I think you could do with upgrading your knowledge past cartoons and facebook memes!

The process of extricating the UK from the EU will take years due to the complexity of the relationship. There are many legal hurdles to be overcome, not least those erected by interests opposed to following the will of the British electorate.

Right now there are many 'not negotiations' going on - 'not negotiations' because legally, until Article 50 is invoked, no negotiations are supposed to happen; however anyone not focused upon the latest cat meme or review of some new fangled wine will be aware that there is an awful lot of activity going on right now.
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

Offline msmoby

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Re: Brexit II
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2016, 11:52:55 AM »

The Liberal fuzziness is left of centre and one can lump together all the Bremoaners in this category irrespective of party affiliation.

This was a Tory seat - formerly with a 22K majority ..  :coffeeread:



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Offline Wiz

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Re: Brexit II
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2016, 02:22:44 PM »
The process of extricating the UK from the EU will take years due to the complexity of the relationship. There are many legal hurdles to be overcome, not least those erected by interests opposed to following the will of the British electorate.

Right now there are many 'not negotiations' going on - 'not negotiations' because legally, until Article 50 is invoked, no negotiations are supposed to happen; however anyone not focused upon the latest cat meme or review of some new fangled wine will be aware that there is an awful lot of activity going on right now.

Andrew

After the article 50 has been invoked then after 2 years max all negotiations will have to stop and the UK will be out of the EU.

I think May and Davis have already calculated the time, so they announced end of March for invoking the article 50. All the rest we read... is just a smoke screen. She made the statement that"Brexit means Brexit".

AvHdB

The main reason for the disintegration of the EU project... it's the Hard EURO, which is not flexible like a National currency... eg the British Pound!.

I suggest you read the rules about the EURO and you will realise that its design  by the Professor Bob Mandel was faulty....and that is why you see nearly all EU economies suffering.

Once a Nation joins the EURO, it is giving up its sovereignty and all the financial tools in its hands to protect the economy at times of trouble by taking various measures.

I have published an article about it in Greek language but for now I am lazy to translate in English.... maybe soon.
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Online andrewfi

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Re: Brexit II
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2016, 05:03:03 PM »
No wiz, that's not right. Two years is NOT the absolute limit. If desired the process can be extended, albeit with the agreement of all member states. As we have seen before though, that agreement is sometimes more honoured in the breach than in the practice. If it is worthwhile extending then that's what will happen.

That's just the same as the no negotiation before Article 50 thing. Of course there's loads of activity, one reason for delaying Article 50 was to enable the process of non negotiating negotiations to take place.
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Offline Donhollio

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Offline Wiz

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Re: Brexit II
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2016, 10:51:44 PM »
Andrew .... You are right!

LISBON TREATY  -   Article 50

1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.

2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.

3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.

4. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.

A qualified majority shall be defined in accordance with Article 238(3)(b) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.


5. If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49.
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Re: Brexit II
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2016, 01:39:57 AM »
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/germany-and-canada-the-wests-last-safe-harbours/article32926825/

Yes,

Thats what you get for ignoring regular joe too long.

The Netherlands since yesterday has a new "direct democracy" party. You get an app on your telephone and whatever the majority voters choose, thats what they will vote in our 2nd chamber.

Sounds like a really, really bad idea, but they still get my vote because the rest is worse.

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Offline msmoby

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Re: Brexit II
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2016, 05:08:44 PM »
UK gov backtrack starts..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38227676

Has May backed down over Brexit news?

''..one of the few things that we know for sure about the prime minister's plans for leaving the EU is that she does not want MPs to be able to tinker with them, scrutinise them in a meaningful way, before she actually gets to the negotiating table''

Whoops

''The government has announced that it will accept Labour's idea to publish a plan, of sorts, for Brexit, before Article 50 begins the legal process of the UK disentangling itself from the EU.
Some Tory MPs were set to gang up with Labour tomorrow in a vote to force ministers to publish something, anything, about their plans for Brexit, against Theresa May's wishes.''

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Online AvHdB

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Re: Brexit II
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2016, 06:08:29 AM »
AvHdB, if you think that there is dragging of feet going on in the British civil service and political class at the moment then I think you could do with upgrading your knowledge past cartoons and facebook memes!

The process of extricating the UK from the EU will take years due to the complexity of the relationship. There are many legal hurdles to be overcome, not least those erected by interests opposed to following the will of the British electorate.

Right now there are many 'not negotiations' going on - 'not negotiations' because legally, until Article 50 is invoked, no negotiations are supposed to happen; however anyone not focused upon the latest cat meme or review of some new fangled wine will be aware that there is an awful lot of activity going on right now.

It is amusing to listen to those who 'know'. Will we see a road map today or tomorrow? My guess is it will be tomorrow. 
“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

Online andrewfi

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Re: Brexit II
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2016, 06:49:37 AM »
What fact lite piece of unknowingness were you trying to communicate here?

Here's a tip: simply stringing English words together, one after the other, does not convey information unless you have instilled those words with some knowledge.

Try again. Perhaps you might want to consider a subscription to a news magazine aimed at a readership level to which you might comfortably aspire: http://theweekjunior.co.uk/
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Online AvHdB

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Re: Brexit II
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2016, 09:22:25 AM »
Sorry Andrew but I can not help you. That your 'education' does not include the political meaning or definition of tomorrow is not my problem.
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Offline Gipsy

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Re: Brexit II
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2016, 10:59:04 AM »
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/740965/Hard-Brexit-reduce-EU-immigration-boost-wages-working-Britons-NIESR-report

Oh dear, this is from a EU think tank, EU migration is causing LOWER salaries in the UK....

Mobysan, vote Brexit for a higher salary...  ;D
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Offline msmoby

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Re: Brexit II
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2016, 11:05:42 AM »
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/740965/Hard-Brexit-reduce-EU-immigration-boost-wages-working-Britons-NIESR-report

Oh dear, this is from a EU think tank, EU migration is causing LOWER salaries in the UK....

Mobysan, vote Brexit for a higher salary...  ;D

'Oh dear', indeed ..from the report ..''The research paper - titled The Economic Impact of Brexit-induced Reductions in Migration - said that ending free movement will have a significant negative impact on GDP. ''

So, which would a normal person want ?  A significant reduction in GDP or a 1 percent increase in wages for those who MIGHT get a job that someone far better qualified and harder working might have had ....

Always pays to read the report before posting 'headlines' that make one look silly



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Offline Gipsy

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Re: Brexit II
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2016, 01:08:12 PM »
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/740965/Hard-Brexit-reduce-EU-immigration-boost-wages-working-Britons-NIESR-report

Oh dear, this is from a EU think tank, EU migration is causing LOWER salaries in the UK....

Mobysan, vote Brexit for a higher salary...  ;D

'Oh dear', indeed ..from the report ..''The research paper - titled The Economic Impact of Brexit-induced Reductions in Migration - said that ending free movement will have a significant negative impact on GDP. ''

So, which would a normal person want ?  A significant reduction in GDP or a 1 percent increase in wages for those who MIGHT get a job that someone far better qualified and harder working might have had ....

Always pays to read the report before posting 'headlines' that make one look silly

Silly boy you....

Quote..
Astonishingly the academics estimate that the current freedom of movement regime boosts EU net migration to the UK by 500 per cent - a staggering sixfold increase.

And they conclude that once Britain withdraws from the scheme levels of EU immigration will fall back to around those in 2003, before the eastern bloc countries joined.
Unquote...

You missed Deliberately I suggest, the main crux of the report... :coffeeread:
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Offline Gipsy

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Re: Brexit II
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2016, 01:13:07 PM »
Quiet liked the comment in the house toady from the RtHon member for Wellingboro, who asked If we have to pay to join the EU single market, as they, the EU, export more to the Uk than the UK to them, are the EU going to pay to join our single market, and how much.... tiphat
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Re: Brexit II
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2016, 01:17:55 PM »
Quiet liked the comment in the house toady from the RtHon member for Wellingboro, who asked If we have to pay to join the EU single market, as they, the EU, export more to the Uk than the UK to them, are the EU going to pay to join our single market, and how much.... tiphat
Can you please use Quite instead of Quiet? It makes my head spin :drunk:
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Offline Gipsy

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Re: Brexit II
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2016, 01:19:29 PM »
Quiet liked the comment in the house toady from the RtHon member for Wellingboro, who asked If we have to pay to join the EU single market, as they, the EU, export more to the Uk than the UK to them, are the EU going to pay to join our single market, and how much.... tiphat
Can you please use Quite instead of Quiet? It makes my head spin :drunk:

Quiet...   :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
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Offline Wiz

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Re: Brexit II
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2016, 01:28:05 PM »
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/740965/Hard-Brexit-reduce-EU-immigration-boost-wages-working-Britons-NIESR-report

Oh dear, this is from a EU think tank, EU migration is causing LOWER salaries in the UK....

Mobysan, vote Brexit for a higher salary...  ;D

'Oh dear', indeed ..from the report ..''The research paper - titled The Economic Impact of Brexit-induced Reductions in Migration - said that ending free movement will have a significant negative impact on GDP. ''

So, which would a normal person want ?  A significant reduction in GDP or a 1 percent increase in wages for those who MIGHT get a job that someone far better qualified and harder working might have had ....

Always pays to read the report before posting 'headlines' that make one look silly

Moby

Did you hear or read this article .... today on the BBC?

MPs back government's Brexit timetable...... :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:

"MPs have voted to back the government's plan to start formal talks on Brexit by the end of March next year.

MPs backed Labour's motion, saying it was "Parliament's responsibility to properly scrutinise the government" over Brexit, by 448 votes to 75 - a margin of 373.

This followed another vote over the government's amendment to the motion, which added the proviso that its timetable for triggering Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty, getting formal talks with the EU under way should be respected. MPs backed this by 461 votes to 89 - a margin of 372."


So who looks silly now?   :laugh: :laugh: ;D


PS: You should know by now that the British politicians... always find away to fudge a solution!

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Offline Gipsy

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Re: Brexit II
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2016, 09:01:02 AM »
Mc D's are expanding their HQ in the UK, to make it the global central for all Non US business world wide, IOW, they are moving their current HQ out of Luxemburg relocating it into London..
Only the Luxemburg restraint business will remain in that country..
This means that all corporate revenues generated by Mc D's WW will be taxed in the UK...
About 1,200 new jobs as a bonus..
My, my, this Brexit future is beginning to look bad.. :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
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Re: Brexit II
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2016, 09:10:11 AM »
This means that all corporate revenues generated by Mc D's WW will be taxed in the UK...

I bet they pay nowt.

I bet the Lux company or another represented by a brass plate nailed to a palm tree somewhere will receive payments for consultancy, branding or IP that just happen to run into millions.
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Offline msmoby

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Re: Brexit II
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2016, 10:56:15 AM »

Moby

Did you hear or read this article .... today on the BBC?

MPs back government's Brexit timetable......



You mean the timetable that was 'secret'  - only the govt. would know ... until this Court case ?


So who looks silly now?   :laugh: :laugh: ;D

Labour ...

PS: You should know by now that the British politicians... always find away to fudge a solution!

..and YOU should know that the UK's laws have evolved through  - testing the law ..


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Offline Gipsy

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Re: Brexit II
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2016, 11:42:08 AM »
This means that all corporate revenues generated by Mc D's WW will be taxed in the UK...

I bet they pay nowt.


That remains to be seen, but I think that although they will use the tax laws to their advantage, they will still toss a few mil each year to HMRC..
Better than nowt...
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