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Author Topic: Yes Minister explains the EU  (Read 1190 times)

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Offline Wiz

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Yes Minister explains the EU
« on: August 12, 2019, 05:12:30 PM »
A five-minute explanation of the basic rules of government!

I am sure you would like to be reminded by Mr Humphrey........explaining ...

Yes Minister explains the EEC (EU)


To close to the Reality, when it comes to JUNKER .....don't you agree?

 tiphat

Online andrewfi

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Re: Yes Minister explains the EU
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2019, 04:43:51 AM »
I voted for Britain to leave the EU, however, I think that the EU as a concept is a good thing and an advancement for Europe. Yes, I think that the criticisms in the clip are valid. I also think they are an inevitable handicap of the project. That does not make the concept a bad one. Nor does it make the management inherently bad.

I have written at length, and even studied academically, the concept that maximising 'efficiency' is not always the optimal solution. I have even proven it economically.

Efficiency is always contextual, it depends upon the perspective of the stakeholders. A Europe that has done as the Soviet Union and the United States both did and created an interlocking and interdependent set of set of social, political, legal and economic structures is very unlikely to see the huge inefficiencies of internal war. War is the greatest inefficiency that humankind experiences. The waste of all resources is so immense that we cannot afford it. The USA, Soviet Union and EU have all eradicated the likelihood of war between constituent states because of that interdependence.

However, I voted for the UK to leave the EU because I could see that the EU, in its current form, is likely to succumb to an upswelling of pressure to devolution coming from the bottom and coming into opposition to a top-down pressure to unification. In my opinion, the upward pressure will overwhelm the downward pressure.

It was my opinion that it was better to leave the EU first rather than after others given the rather unique nature of Britains location, economy and political system. Of course, we see the upward pressure to devolution occurring in the UK we, as one of, if not the first political and economic groupings of independent nations is not immune to the pressures of devolution, but that is a force independent of the EU and would happen whether we were in, or out, of the EU.
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Online rosco

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Re: Yes Minister explains the EU
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2019, 05:28:35 AM »
Well said Andrew and I tend to agree. We can be guilty of not giving the EU the credit it deserves in many areas and focus on all the drawbacks or problems. That said, I don't get the impression that the EU is or will become a block that listens to the individual needs of any one nation and its all about the sum of the total. Without opening a can of worms we just need to look at cases where British industry has suffered so the state can prosper.

Hence, I voted to leave and preserve sovereignty. It's just a shame that on both sides and including the EU negotiators, people who aspire to be a paragon of democracy and freedom, can't accept democracy and freedom. They would rather punish the UK for deciding to take a different path instead of respecting the values they claim to uphold. The divide between both sides has become so great with emotions simmering, that decisions are based on which side of the divide you belong to, rather than what you actually think is right.
Common sense and decency is out the window and its become an ideological war - sadly.

Then there's Catalonia.......


Online andrewfi

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Re: Yes Minister explains the EU
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2019, 08:40:47 AM »
Catalonia is another example of the upward pressure against unity.

While almost all of the separatist movements have historical roots, it is my opinion that the current and visible surge in separatist/devololutionary activity is a reaction to the downward integrationary pressure. Catalonia, Scotland, Basque and others would be much less evident absent the EU.

I understand the position of the EU in negotiations with the UK. The EU need to convince other nations that leaving is a bad idea so they cannot be seen to be reasonable or transparent with the UK.

Of course, cooperation and compromise will happen because the cost to the EU of not doing so will be huge. Expect last minute frenzied activity, much of it not in public.
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Offline Wiz

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Re: Yes Minister explains the EU
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2019, 12:21:41 PM »
I voted for Britain to leave the EU, because of all the changes made to the original idea of a United Europe Group. The EU concept, as Andrew said, was a good thing to stop Europeans killing each other. but take a closer look to all changes that took place and also where Europe is going today.

I think the EU project was a long term plan, at the end of the WWII, by the Banksters and it was was formed for the explicit purpose of destroying not only the existence, but the very concept, of national sovereignty and permanently controlling and reducing the population of the planet for the benefit of very few people.

The INTER-ALPHA GROUP of Nation-Killers for Imperial Genocide


Below is a translation of an article that I posted on a Greek block on the 20 December 2013, under the title:

What will happen if we return to Drachma?.



The Euro is a tough and defective debt instrument
...  not a Real currency.

Euro Medium Term Note – EMTN. A euro medium-term note is a medium-term, debt instrument that is traded and issued outside of the United States and Canada. These instruments require fixed payments and are directly issued to the market with maturities that are less than five years.

Back in the 1980s, the leaders of Germany and France “conceived” the idea of a single European currency. Surprising in their speeches and their rhetoric, they said that they would have a single European currency that would unite the European economy to make it more efficient and productive. But in reality their motives were political and they wanted to create a currency that would compete with the US dollar. The idea was certainly great, but it lacked a basic foundation. In fact it wasn’t designed with the principles of a good economy, but rather for political ends and to satisfy their financial masters.

Within a single currency, all countries adopting the euro should abandon their own national monetary sovereignty. In other words, countries such as France and Germany would have to stop issuing the French francs and the German Marks and could therefore no longer pursue an independent monetary and fiscal policy. Thus, by being issuers of their own currencies (a situation that has enormous benefits), they have become mere users of the new currency.

Political leaders pushed their plan forward and made everyone think it was a great idea. The day finally came in 1999, when the Euro became the official currency of 11 European nations. Then followed and other states but some remained outside the euro, such as Britain.

The good times came together and the euro was embraced by investors and many of the world's central banks. The value of the Euro rose from 80 cents in 2001 to about $ 1.55 in 2008. Its value has almost doubled in just seven years. And there were many rumours that the euro would eventually replace the US dollar as the world's main reserve currency. Everyone thought the euro was starting to look like an incredible success. But as it turned out, the Euro was just over a brick wall!

When the global financial crisis hit, amidst the ensuing chaos and panic that followed, investors around the world resorted to the security of the US dollar. Few understood at first what was happening, and many believed that the United States would not be able to cope with the greatest difficulties. But it soon became clear that Europe had much worse problems than the US and unfortunately did not have the means to deal with it.



The truth about the EU and the creation of the Euro

The European propaganda has been telling us that the euro was (invented) to unite economically, emotionally and politically, all the countries of Europe, and to give this united Europe the economic potential to compete with the all-powerful US economy, which was a fairy tale.

What were the real causes, parameters, and purpose of Professor Robert Mandell of Columbia University in N.Y (who we consider to be his father) who invented and designed this new coin?

The same professor had planned the economic policy ( Supply side Economics ) the bright star and driver of the Thatcher and Reagan administrations. Later the father George Bush has called this economic policy, " VoodooEconomics "! Reagan, Thatcher, Voodoo and Euro are both sides of the same coin.

Like the Iron Lady and the faded GA GA President, the EURO is rigid and unbalanced. Simply put, when a state becomes a member of the euro, that state can no longer fight an economic downturn by using fiscal and monetary policy. The only thing it can do is to reduce wages; tax cuts (reduce job vacancies and cut benefits and allowances) as well as privatizations and redemption of state property. That was called …. “Austerity Measures”.

The only way for a government to create jobs (of course, at a reduced wage) is to make redundancies, cut benefits, salaries, pensions and other benefits for the people, and most importantly eliminate workers laws that create obstacles to the operation of businesses. It is precisely these measures that we have seen happening in all EU countries, especially to those in the South of Europe that lead to the complete disintegration and destruction of Greek society and its people! Whatever else the politicians and the TV parrots are telling us, are fairy tales to cover their chairs and pockets

In simple words, what is being done is a return to the Middle Ages where there were only slaves and colleges with no rights to offer their work.

The US Dollar needed the existence of an expensive hedge to keep it at risk and move low, in the interest of the US following the abolition of the Bretton Woods system , and thus the EURO was invented.

The euro was invented in America, with funding from the US Banks and was imposed in the EU, in cooperation with Germany and France.

Usurers, having attained full freedom in the casino, ''Wall Street '', of New York, as I have already explained in my previous post, “The END GAME”, their appetite was wedded and it was time for them to expand in the rest of the world, and of course the EU group of Nations was one of the most developed and larger blocs.     

Their purpose was to remove any laws and measures that interfere with, impede and regulate the free and uncontrolled circulation of the large speculative funds of the so-called "investment market" in the whole bloc called the EU.

The EURO was backed by its advocates, and was the straitjacket that will abolish in one single way all the restrictive laws in the EU stock markets, banks, labour relations and the general economy of the EU states. Simply they wanted to do and succeed, go everywhere freely and thrive as they please! Their purpose was not to overthrow the state. The results speak for themselves with the infamous "Real Estate Utilities" that is, selling at ridiculous prices.

In Greece, the guinea pig, only large multinational corporations win while small and medium-sized ones suffer and close. Labour laws were abolished, the Health system was dismantled, education, banking, the medieval and light industries, agricultural production, and now they are ready to take the silver of the state and peoples houses who have taken mortgages from the banks.

Germany, in particular Deutsche Bank, which controls the ECB, is a subsidiary of the financial killers, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, City Group and some others with the Rothschild’s behind all the major banks. What you see today was designed and implemented, first in Russia in the 80's. Search You Tube and see the video “Catastroika”.

One of the inhumane measures of the Euro is that the ECB is not allowed to print more notes to facilitate liquidity in Member States in the event of a market crash. Other friends of our American Banksters have found a solution to this problem. The US has the right, to print Dollars to help the ECB ( Fiat Money without a real value), pass them on to the ECB and they sell them for Euros that circulate on the free market. They have so far given $ 1.6 trillion for this purpose. This money do not appear anywhere in the US Budget. The ECB has banknotes to lend to member states and the dollar, without inflationary pressures on the US economy, gains in value, remains virtually stable as inflationary dollars are absorbed by the world market.

We are all aware of the Greek government swap fraud of the PM Spiros Simitis, with Goldman Sachs causing it to lower the 3% deficit imposed by the Euro on all members, as the biggest budget deficit on GDP. 

This 3% is the big hoax, because when you become a member of the Euro and the Eurozone you immediately lose whatever tools you have to defend against a recession and other problems. Simply put it, a 3% of your budget it deprives your Government of the right to have your own fiscal and economic policy, as I explained above, and this is a fraud.

Within the Euro you do not have the right to give incentives to restart your market. To be precise, if I remember correctly, Germany first broke the threshold..... and later regained 3%. Now of course, as we hear, it threatens to impose fines if a state escapes the euro. In addition, as of 1 July 2013, all economies and budgets are controlled by the EFSF and the EKT .

I would suggest you read these 2 Articles bellow and you will learn a lot.


Read the latest article:

Bretton Woods Is Dead: What Next?

 tiphat

Online andrewfi

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Re: Yes Minister explains the EU
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2019, 01:00:02 PM »
Lots of words there Wiz. Just one important point that undermines most of what was written.

While a common currency does reduce the number of levers that a government has on the economy, the most important one remains. Productivity.
When productivity increases output per unit labour increases. This increases the wealth of the country and improves the balance of payments. 'Austerity' is not the only tool available.
Increased productivity serves to reduce inflation, increase living standards, reduce unemployment, and reduce social costs - and perhaps some other benefits I have forgotten.

By omitting that aspect from the screed the writer shows that he does not have the basic tool with which to argue - knowledge. As a list of memes and retread phrases, it reads like copypasta from a load of similar sources without knowledge and insight.
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Offline Wiz

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Re: Yes Minister explains the EU
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2019, 03:59:09 AM »
Andrew

Bear in mind that I wrote this article 5 years ago and for a very different type of audience!

I voted for Britain to leave the EU because, the EU today has become very undemocratic, especially when electing its leadership!

It is pretty obvious that so many different economies can’t not be harmonized without several victims on the way…….

As about their rules on agriculture, fishing and heavy industries helps mostly the largest economies of the group, corporations and the Banksters. Normal working people, today in the UK hardly can afford to buy a flat or house. Prices have sky rocketed and everything else making life very difficult for the working people.

The decision by France and Germany to create the European army to control all other smaller states…..is a Neoliberal Fascist idea, unacceptable from most members.

While the idea of one large Eurostate, sounds good, the fact remains…..how can you improve PRODUCTIVITY, with “0 hours contracts” or following the same tactics suggested by the Creator of the Euro Robert Mundel,?

"The only way for a government to create jobs (of course, at a reduced wage) is to make redundancies, cut benefits, salaries, pensions and other benefits for the people, and most importantly eliminate workers laws that create obstacles to the operation of businesses. It is precisely these measures that we have seen happening in all EU countries, especially to those in the South of Europe that lead to the complete disintegration and destruction of Greek society and its people! Whatever else the politicians and the TV parrots are telling us, are fairy tales to cover their chairs and pockets"

Only the large multinational companies benefit and not the general populations of our countries. Using robots it does help to increase productivity and reduce costs for the companies but does not provide big number of jobs or good salaries for the workers.

Finally I am not an economist but like every body else who is interested in international or National matters I keep reading….

Your comment “it reads like copypasta “ is not welcome … and writing in a third person does not hide the fact that you are not an expert in every subject we discuss....... I am sure you also read around and probably use ideas or comments you have come across and read, into you own various comments!

 tiphat

Online andrewfi

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Re: Yes Minister explains the EU
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2019, 12:57:36 PM »
Wiz, I did not know that you wrote the post upon which I commented. You are one who frequently copy/pastes stuff into a screed. You ain't the only one who does it.

However, you just demonstrated my point with the bolded words you posted above. They are simply, factually incorrect.

I am not an an expert on everything, but I rarely post on stuff I do not know about. This stuff, I know something about. You do not understand how an economy is controlled, your words and your subsequent defence of them by repeating the same ideas show that.

1) Jobs are not created through redundancies - that's the opposite of what happens.
2) Cutting social benefits does not create jobs. At best it disincentivises malingering.
3) Creating jobs does not improve productivity in terms of output per unit labour.
4) Increasing the number of jobs without increasing productivity per unit labour does not increase national wealth.

I will stop there, but that's 4 errors of fact in just 100 words - not a good hit rate.
The stuff you posted just now is wrong, the stuff you posted yesterday was wrong.

The stuff you posted is the kind of ill-informed idiocy that one sees very often. You have just picked up on the memes of others because they suit your prejudices.
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Offline Wiz

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Re: Yes Minister explains the EU
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2019, 02:35:57 PM »
Obviously there is somewhere a problem with our communication and my writing.

I guess the translation from the Greek language to English was not good enough or up to your educational standards to which I cannot match, to convey the message of my post to you.

May ask you to read again my two posts and tell me which of the negative actions I mentioned, in both my posts, have not taken place or have not affected the every day life or the general population and not the 0.1% that benefits immensely from the changes?

Can you please explain to me where the imposition of the EURO to the Eurozone members, has benefited the general population and why the UK has faired much better keeping the Pound instead of Joining the Euro?

I can assure you that the Greek people instead of becoming poor and loosing everything, as they are doing today, the years before joining the EURO, the sheer majority were doing very well when we had the Greek Drachma pegged to the Dollar, every Greek has benefitted from it and everybody was earning good money.

Then most of the Greeks, you will find, owned not only the house or flat they were living but also they had a summer house somewhere near the sea and many of them have builded flats, studios and villa's for the tourists.

What about housing in the UK? How many people can afford to buy their own flat or house today, thanks to the Liberal policies imported from the US and imposed to the UK population by Mrs Thatcher?

I am sure you must remember the Neoliberal Big Bang introduced by Mrs Thatcher, who at the same time decimated the heavy industry of the country, forced the sale of the council houses  and privatised all public utilities and services?

Finally can you explain to me why the British people voted to exit from the EU if according to your views there were many good benefits for the country as a whole?

 tiphat





Offline AvHdB

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Re: Yes Minister explains the EU
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2019, 05:05:53 PM »
Obviously there is somewhere a problem with our communication and my writing.

I guess the translation from the Greek language to English was not good enough or up to your educational standards to which I cannot match, to convey the message of my post to you.

Your English is fine, clear, concise and readable. Do not worry about grammar police, they can not send you a fine!   :thumbsup:



Can you please explain to me where the imposition of the EURO to the Eurozone members, has benefited the general population and why the UK has faired much better keeping the Pound instead of Joining the Euro?

I can assure you that the Greek people instead of becoming poor and loosing everything, as they are doing today, the years before joining the EURO, the sheer majority were doing very well when we had the Greek Drachma pegged to the Dollar, every Greek has benefitted from it and everybody was earning good money.

Then most of the Greeks, you will find, owned not only the house or flat they were living but also they had a summer house somewhere near the sea and many of them have builded flats, studios and villa's for the tourists.


Wiz, The problem is not the Greek folk, from the handful that I have met they are decent.

The problem lies with the government, and it is almost identical (but not in scale) to the United States, they are spending money like a sailor on his first day of shore leave after a year at sea. There was in Athens and will be a day of reckoning in the United States.

This is the strength of Russia, not there military. It is piecemeal and poorly ecquiped though in the last 20 years they have made great strides forward. It is there financial house, it is in far better order than other countries or Unions.

The collapse in the United States will not be pretty.
“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

Online msmoby

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Re: Yes Minister explains the EU
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2019, 12:11:31 AM »


What about housing in the UK? How many people can afford to buy their own flat or house today, thanks to the Liberal policies imported from the US and imposed to the UK population by Mrs Thatcher?


Er, Wiz.. Thatcher brought MORE house-owners and vote Labour votes becase she made them property owners ..

What has happended - long since her running the nation, is a huge property buy to rent bubble, which SHOULD have been countered by taxing the income / capital gains on any property sale ..   Don't blame Mrs T for any future govt's ineptness


Finally can you explain to me why the British people voted to exit from the EU if according to your views there were many good benefits for the country as a whole?


Good question... Many voted 'leave' believing threy'd be 'better off' and immigration was 'bad..

What constantly tickles me is how an immigrant, who used EU rules to bring in another immigrant could vote to leave  :chuckle:

Do you want GM modified food and Chicken washed in chlorine - rather than EU based food hygine / processing regimes that work on behalf of the consumer, rather than the US  ones - the producer ?  :sick0012:


Online rosco

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Re: Yes Minister explains the EU
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2019, 04:29:07 AM »
Finally can you explain to me why the British people voted to exit from the EU if according to your views there were many good benefits for the country as a whole?


Good question... Many voted 'leave' believing threy'd be 'better off' and immigration was 'bad..

What constantly tickles me is how an immigrant, who used EU rules to bring in another immigrant could vote to leave  :chuckle:

To be fair, I think you're fudging the lines a bit there.

Many voted leave for the preservation of sovereignty, the lack of confidence in the unelected and their future plans and immigration absolutely isn't an issue. Illegal, unregulated and poorly controlled immigration is a huge problem though. If we need doctors, nurses, engineers and fruit pickers then we welcome all who arrive and contribute.

Swathes of economic migrants, setting up shop like they have in London and parts of Yorkshire for example, have left us worse off. Many of these communities only deal with each other, can't speak English and import their culture from the failed country they left. Admittedly not all but we do have integration problems that only the blind fail to see, so at least be honest about it.

Also, we could well be better off if we leave on fair terms and take advantage of forging new trade deals and partnerships. This high handed, determined view you have that we can only prosper in the EU, makes it hard to even discuss. Even you need to concede that there's life beyond the EU should we manage it properly. It bemuses me why you feel we need to become part of a superstate, dictated to by unelected officials for us to thrive.

Sadly, the remain faction is doing all it can to scupper it. They would rather we leave on a bad deal and get rammed by the EU so they can say "we told you so".....a sad mentality to say the least. Some would say traitorous.....and they often identify themselves as European!!  :chuckle:

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Re: Yes Minister explains the EU
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2019, 04:33:20 AM »
Do you want GM modified food and Chicken washed in chlorine - rather than EU based food hygine / processing regimes that work on behalf of the consumer, rather than the US  ones - the producer ?  :sick0012:

No but I find it interesting that you think we have to. Do you really believe that or will you admit that you're using this to fuel your agenda. We have a choice not to import as a country and a choice not to buy as a consumer.

Sensationalism much??

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Re: Yes Minister explains the EU
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2019, 05:46:01 AM »
Manny Thanks for the split.... but pls try and keep the asylum escapee from spoiling this thread too. I hope we are allowed to have a serious discussion without your "Court Jester" and "Asylum Escapee" spoiling it!

I have already advised him what to do to keep his sex life alive and healthy but loneliness drives him insane! We all have a real life too, unlike him and I will not bother answering all his TROLLING posts.

Thank you
  tiphat
____________________________________________________________

Obviously there is somewhere a problem with our communication and my writing.

I guess the translation from the Greek language to English was not good enough or up to your educational standards to which I cannot match, to convey the message of my post to you.

Your English is fine, clear, concise and readable. Do not worry about grammar police, they can not send you a fine!   :thumbsup:

Thanks for your comments regarding my fluency ability in English

For your information, I started learning English at the age of 7-8 years old and my teacher was a very nice neighbour from a privileged background, who had finished Oxford University and became a University lecturer. He felt sorry for the young orphan (my father was killed during the civil war) that his mother was straggling to bring him up, so he decided to help me to learn English.

His view was … learn English well and you will have an advantage from other people when looking for a job, so he spent 1 hour a week teaching me…..and by the end of the 1st year he used to give me the last week’s “Observer” paper to read….and on the next lesson, speaking ONLY English, I had to tell him everything I read and by the time I was 11-12 years old….going to high school we were talking only English and I become fluent.

I remember he gave me a book, “ESSENTIAL ENGLISH for Foreign Students” by C,E. ECHERSLEY and told me to read it and ask if I could not understand anything. When I met Hanna and she visited me in the UK at Xmas 2007, I gave her the book to read and told her to listen or read the BBC news and programs but not anything American. Now I regret it… I am sure you will know how fast the Russian women speak, like a Kalashnikov and don't stop to take a breath :laugh:


Can you please explain to me where the imposition of the EURO to the Eurozone members, has benefited the general population and why the UK has faired much better keeping the Pound instead of Joining the Euro?

I can assure you that the Greek people instead of becoming poor and loosing everything, as they are doing today, the years before joining the EURO, the sheer majority were doing very well when we had the Greek Drachma pegged to the Dollar, every Greek has benefitted from it and everybody was earning good money.

Then most of the Greeks, you will find, owned not only the house or flat they were living but also they had a summer house somewhere near the sea and many of them have builded flats, studios and villa's for the tourists.

Wiz, The problem is not the Greek folk, from the handful that I have met they are decent.

The problem lies with the government, and it is almost identical (but not in scale) to the United States, they are spending money like a sailor on his first day of shore leave after a year at sea. There was in Athens and will be a day of reckoning in the United States.

This is the strength of Russia, not there military. It is piecemeal and poorly ecquiped though in the last 20 years they have made great strides forward. It is there financial house, it is in far better order than other countries or Unions.

The collapse in the United States will not be pretty.

Absolutely agree and all Greek governments after the WWII and the civil war including the Junta period until today were/are corrupt to the core.

When I took early retirement in 2005 and during the last Crash in 2008 I started paying again closer attention to the Greek politics and soon realised that nothing has changed, since I left and the same and more corruption still existed.

I got involved posting in a paper called ΕΛΕΥΘΕΡΟΤΥΠΙΑ (Free Press) now defunct… because the Greeks prefer to listen to party lines and to those they owe a favour for finding them a state Job or dubious support to their business/interests other things.

All Greek politicians have at least christened 1 child in every village or town area where they are elected. So the parents and the whole family connections vote for him. I was always refused my mother's advice to visit my uncle who was the right hand of the Minister for defence before the Junta and never spoke to him.

I got my 1st job with the Nationalised Electricity Company in 1965 by accident.
 
While we were taking tests... the police arrested all supervising people from the Ministry because they were taking bribes issuing Licences and we had policemen keeping an eye....and few days later when I got the call to supply then certain documents my mother could not believe my luck!

When I took early retirement in 2005 and during the last Crash in 2008 I started paying closer attention to the Greek politics and soon realised the full scale of corruption that existed there. I got involved posting on a paper called ΕΛΕΥΘΕΡΟΤΥΠΙΑ (Free Press) now defunct… and also in various sites too. Eg RESALTO or ATTIKA NEA … click   https://attikanea.blogspot.com/search?q=wiz  translate and read if you wish to see what I was posting.

For your information that was a nice easy way to not forget writing Greek after 40+   years living in UK and I do exactly the same, here, to make sure I don’t forget my English too.

I have not studied in any English University, my 2 sons did and got a phD & Dr after their names. Older boy was “head handed” ( Fcuking Americans talent spotters)  is in San Francisco…and the young one works in the City of London. Well you would not like to be on the same room when an old Greek and his Greek sons talking Politics…..  :ROFL:

I arrived in the UK with only £500 in my NATWEST account and survived. Leaned economics and other games on the job, as they say, thanks to a nice Barclays Bank Manager, my Jew Solicitor friend also a client first and then friend, a Currency speculator in the city and an English Straight Accountant keeping me in the strait and narrow.

Today, I owe nobody a penny, I am a pensioner, wife prefers to go and work 3-4 days a week, leaving me in peace and quite and we travel, yearly many times all over Europe!

This year we have already been to Greece twice for the Greek Easter and the wedding of my second son in Corfu, where I took some more original photos of the Mouse island to avoid Moby accusing me for Copyright theft.  :P :nod: :laugh:


On Friday wife goes to our home in Ufa to see mama and family for 3 weeks, In early October I booked a week in Minorca and early November planning to go to the Canaries islands for some sunshine.

While she is in Russia, I go for a health MOT and soon I hope I will fix my Hollywood smile…too before the winter holidays.

BTW I do not have any mortgages or house on my name.......but my wife is very well secured, even if she loose her job or don't want to work anymore or I kick the bucket!     

you already know I don't drive a brand new car but an old VW Golf which is Classic.......30 Years old (Try to catch me if you want) and Manny, the expert can tell you how much I can sell it for when I decide to change!

 tiphat   :king:


Online andrewfi

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Re: Yes Minister explains the EU
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2019, 05:47:53 AM »
Almost all legislation that was introduced while we were in the EU will remain in place. Much of it was useful and benefits society as a whole (usually at the cost of some interest group - often the ones from whom such legislation was designed to protect us.)

Europe has, probably, the highest food standards in the world, that will not change. The UK is unlikely to change - John and Joanne Smith will not allow it.

And, yes, we have a choice as purchasers.

Anyone from the UK looking at what USAians buy and eat would be heartbroken at the poor quality of the stuff USAians shovel into their pieholes. That's such a paradox to me, part of me loves the variety and ingenuity of the products seen on the shelves of the supermarkets of our colonial cousins and yet I am so happy to be able to buy safe, nutritious, foods from the shelves of any European supermarket.

Bagel Bites- whoever thought of it deserves applause. But whoever put 'em in a box and froze 'em, with the poisons they include deserves imprisonment for crimes against humanity.

And look at this: Look at what goes into these to make them cheap and edible (and yet, not tasty!). Ingredients can be seen at about 1.25. And when you look at the nutrition values, just, wow!

In comparison to this kind of thing, the UK's widely derided Greggs baked goods are fresh-baked healthfoods!
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

Online msmoby

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Re: Yes Minister explains the EU
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2019, 05:52:07 AM »


To be fair, I think you're fudging the lines a bit there.

Many voted leave for the preservation of sovereignty,

1/ Cameron got us an even better load of opt outs ..   the UK controls it's own borders .. only EU folks without serious criminal records are allowed in without a visa

2/ EU migrants weren't allowed access to benefits for a longer period

We elect representatives to the EU get a say in trade deals and the making of new laws - many of the migration ones - we have opt outs ..

Let's not forget EU migrants pay MORE UK tax than UK citizens do - on average "2300 more, per anum in 2018...



the lack of confidence in the unelected

Who's unelected in the EU ?


and their future plans and immigration absolutely isn't an issue. Illegal, unregulated and poorly controlled immigration is a huge problem though. If we need doctors, nurses, engineers and fruit pickers then we welcome all who arrive and contribute.

But, but, but .... We already do not have any obligation to take such migrants



Swathes of economic migrants, setting up shop like they have in London and parts of Yorkshire for example, have left us worse off. Many of these communities only deal with each other, can't speak English and import their culture from the failed country they left. Admittedly not all but we do have integration problems that only the blind fail to see, so at least be honest about it.


Economic migrants have no right to remain under current laws ..



Also, we could well be better off if we leave on fair terms and take advantage of forging new trade deals and partnerships. This high handed, determined view you have that we can only prosper in the EU, makes it hard to even discuss. Even you need to concede that there's life beyond the EU should we manage it properly. It bemuses me why you feel we need to become part of a superstate, dictated to by unelected officials for us to thrive.

'high handed, determined - based on pragmatism - not so sort of hope without ANY basis for hope..

1/ Look at the nations we have done trade deals with.. how  many times less do they represent over just the EU ?

2/ You want GM modified foods, Chickens washed in Chlorine and treated with antibiotics by default ?  - THAT is what the Americans insist we 'accept'


Sadly, the remain faction is doing all it can to scupper it.

Not JUST remainers .. lots of Tory MPs - including the former Chancellor of the Exchequer are 'pro' leave - voting through article 50 - but not in any way supporting a 'no deal', default attitude ..


They would rather we leave on a bad deal and get rammed by the EU so they can say "we told you so".....a sad mentality to say the least. Some would say traitorous.....and they often identify themselves as European!!  :chuckle:

Many want to leave with a good deal and YES, many more do not want us to leave at all, but ALL want the PEOPLE to decide  on whether

1/ 'no deal' is fine

2/ Let's negotiate a trade deal and UK / EU citizens rights - living in third party states

OR

3/ Forget the whole thing ..

not leaving it to Boris or Farage...


Online andrewfi

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Re: Yes Minister explains the EU
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2019, 05:56:56 AM »
Wiz, when you post errors of fact and somebody with knowledge of the field points it out do not get too upset. Do as I do, learn, never stop learning.

Moving the goalposts around as you are trying to do is what moby does, it is as dishonest as it is obvious.

Why not go back and make a start on your learning by going to the four errors of fact that I pointed out and learn about them. It will help you.

As for your new point that the Euro was bad for Greece. Again, no, nope, nein, wrong. What was wrong was the dishonesty and fudging that enabled the Greek government of the time to join the Euro. What happened afterwards was the result of that dishonesty and fudging. Allocate the blame where you choose, but it was the Greek government(s) of the time that got what they wanted: cheap loans and the ability to kick Greek economic problems down the road for a few more years. Was Europe a stakeholder in that, of course, they were, and some in Europe have been enriched by the predictable transfer of assets sold to pay the bills that came due. But, it was Greek choices and the consequent path that made Greek problems.

The discipline that the Euro imposes upon the economy was not something that was considered by Greeks back then. The idea of a shared interest rate, much lower than the national rate was just one of the perceived benefits for Mr and Mrs Zorba. Ooooh, look our mortgage payments will go down! No understanding that it is the productivity of an economy that determines its success. Happy with something for nothing and damn the effects of a shared currency on a nation of tax dodgers and benefits claimants.

If only you guys actually worked rather than depending upon payouts from the government happily accepted at the same time you did everything you could to not pay the taxes that paid for your handouts then matters might have been different.

Remember I pointed out productivity to you? Well, there's a lack of productivity for you. A nation of people being purposefully lazy and hoping that something for nothing will always be available.


...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

Offline Manny

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Re: Yes Minister explains the EU
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2019, 09:33:40 AM »
2/ EU migrants weren't allowed access to benefits for a longer period

Not at all would be better.

Let's not forget EU migrants pay MORE UK tax than UK citizens do - on average "2300 more, per anum in 2018...

Romanian beggars and vagrants file self assessment do they?  :'(

Who's unelected in the EU ?

The people who run it the people cannot vote out. And we certainly can't.

Economic migrants have no right to remain under current laws ..

Really? Why are we paying Child Benefit for kids who still live in Poland, and numerous other benefits to a LOT from the armpit countries?

2/ You want GM modified foods, Chickens washed in Chlorine and treated with antibiotics by default ?  - THAT is what the Americans insist we 'accept'

Fine for the great unwashed. I doubt Ocado or Waitrose will run out of British ones.

Many want to leave with a good deal and YES, many more do not want us to leave at all, but ALL want the PEOPLE to decide  on whether

Stop lying.

3/ Forget the whole thing ..

 :ROFL:

not leaving it to Boris or Farage...

I'd be happy to let both of them and Mogg tie it up.

Online rosco

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Re: Yes Minister explains the EU
« Reply #18 on: August 15, 2019, 12:42:44 PM »
I find it hard to take any of your points seriously when one of them states, “that is what the Americans insist we accept”.

This part is covered in another thread but I find it interesting that you are privy to the finer points of a trade document that hasn’t even been discussed. This is all sensationalism and blindness, never mind a US trade deal hanging in the balance over chicken  :ROFL:

It’s already been pointed out that given the choice, nobody would buy it.

Manny thanks for taking the time to address his blunders. Moby, sorry but your points are simply sensationalist, desperation for your undying love of the EU.

Offline Wiz

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Re: Yes Minister explains the EU
« Reply #19 on: August 15, 2019, 06:38:24 PM »
Wiz, when you post errors of fact and somebody with knowledge of the field points it out do not get too upset. Do as I do, learn, never stop learning.

Moving the goalposts around as you are trying to do is what moby does, it is as dishonest as it is obvious.

Why not go back and make a start on your learning by going to the four errors of fact that I pointed out and learn about them. It will help you.

As for your new point that the Euro was bad for Greece. Again, no, nope, nein, wrong. What was wrong was the dishonesty and fudging that enabled the Greek government of the time to join the Euro. What happened afterwards was the result of that dishonesty and fudging. Allocate the blame where you choose, but it was the Greek government(s) of the time that got what they wanted: cheap loans and the ability to kick Greek economic problems down the road for a few more years. Was Europe a stakeholder in that, of course, they were, and some in Europe have been enriched by the predictable transfer of assets sold to pay the bills that came due. But, it was Greek choices and the consequent path that made Greek problems.

The discipline that the Euro imposes upon the economy was not something that was considered by Greeks back then. The idea of a shared interest rate, much lower than the national rate was just one of the perceived benefits for Mr and Mrs Zorba. Ooooh, look our mortgage payments will go down! No understanding that it is the productivity of an economy that determines its success. Happy with something for nothing and damn the effects of a shared currency on a nation of tax dodgers and benefits claimants.

If only you guys actually worked rather than depending upon payouts from the government happily accepted at the same time you did everything you could to not pay the taxes that paid for your handouts then matters might have been different.

Remember I pointed out productivity to you? Well, there's a lack of productivity for you. A nation of people being purposefully lazy and hoping that something for nothing will always be available.

Andrew let me make it clear that :

a) We have a discussion, b) I don't know your credentials, and c) we don't compete for some price or medal.

We are just in the pub or Greek Cafe having a drink and remember I am not Moby, respect your views and say so, when is necessary and I expect the same . Please do not underestimate my ability to understand the English tone and language.

Reading your comments above it's clear to me that you have fallen for all the propaganda and comments spread by other Europeans especially by the British, regarding the Greeks are lazy,  paying no taxes and all the other epithets.

Have ever been to Greece?

How the Greeks managed to have the largest commercial Maritime fleet on the world?

Just by not paying any taxes or with hard work?

Well if we start on that path we will never  stop throwing  stones to each other.

I do not move anything or try to avoid replying to your comments, but I am not Moby and can't spent all my time on the board.

I have already posted all the necessary information to satisfy your questions if you care to read and I give links too.

Sorry the translation is not very good but I hope you get the drift of my postings.

I have already replied to AV and agreed with him that the Greek politicians and traitors are to blame and of course the easily led and corrupted Greek population.

If you care to read what I post you will find that we do not have much differences......in our opinions.

The perfect Crime is ... the one that is Legal

Sorry but I have an early start tomorrow........enjoy reading my imperfect  translations, all copy and paste...... LOL

 tiphat

Offline Wiz

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Re: Yes Minister explains the EU
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2019, 04:18:42 PM »
Rosco

Let me explain few things to you, so you can have a better picture of my views.

1)   In another post I explained how I become fluent speaking the English language, since I was very young.

2)   In 1969, I was living and working on the Island of Corfu, (ex British colony), where I met my 1st Wife, who was English! Next year 1970 we got married in Hastings, East Sussex and at Christmas of that Years we visited my parents in Law. On arrival at Gatwick, I presented the Immigration officer with my Marriage certificate and he stamped my passport with “Indefinite Leave to Remain”. These were the rules at the time.

3)   While living in Corfu, as a sideline, I was providing electricity maintenance support for the accommodation of a British Tour Operator, with whom we became very good friends. In a couple of Years, I learned all the ins and out of the tourist business and with the help of my new friend, selling me travel tickets, I started providing the same service, with my MIL taking the bookings and advertising in the Sunday Times. Well on the Callaghan years, winter of discontent, I took unpaid leave and came to UK to expand my sideline tour operation. Obviously those years outbound tourism from the UK was going up and soon made the decision to move permanently here. I lived in London and in a couple of years at the advice of my tour ops friend; I bought a cottage in Surrey…… and moved out of the Greek Ghetto at Bayswater in London. He was living is Surrey and his wife found me the cottage.

4)    It was always my view…..and argument with my Greek co-patriots: “How can you come and work in the UK without speaking English?” Where I live, I very rarely have seen any dark skin people living here, while living in London I realise that white and dark colours, don’t mix well, so I remained in Surrey.

5)   I have already explained, what happened, when I married my Russian wife but if you don’t know please read my post My Russian Love affair!

6)   As you must know, I have dual Nationality and used My Greek Passport and the EU directive to bring my wife Hanna in the UK and saved over £1000….on the way. Of course I had to justify my income and buy Health Insurance for her and this ungrateful character, Moby, asked my advice on the phone and did the same for his wife V. What ever he says is pack of lies. I had no problem in the process where he did. Anything else he say….please check his own posts and you will find everything about his life, other adventures and fcukups. I have nothing to be ashamed off or been jealous of him or anybody else for that matter.

7)   In 2013 my wife got her driving Licence and in 2014 her British Nationality, after going though all the tests, costing us an arm and a leg, thanks to Theresa May. My wife enrolled in the local college, paid by our own pocket for 3 years, got her high level BRITISH Diploma, and now is working for the Local Government in Surrey.


8)   My views about Brexit are simple. Regarding the Immigration it is obvious that everything it's our politicians fault. Our Governments have messed up with immigration and lately the “Conservative Party”, officially the “Conservative and Unionist Party” have fcuked big time because they are in the pocket of the Jewish Banksters and the American Admin too, “Special Relationship” and other bollocks. Have you noticed who visited our clown PM Boris…. the other day?

It was Mr Bolton passing Boris a nice message …. If you do not follow our instructions in Gibraltar, no support for you at the Hormuz straits and with Iran.

Do you remember what happen after Cameron, yes that "Cameron" in the Panama papers paying no taxes…,the same one who destroyed Libya, together with the Americans and French, when he lost the referendum vote .....escaped.?

The following weekend after the referendum the EU published on it’s website the terms for the Brexit. Somebody has posted the link here and I had a good read…..

In simple terms, been a member of the EU for many years our Governments have agreed and signed many laws. If you don’t know the new directives/laws are not  published without first agreed and signed by all members states. All countries have the right to VETO.

Reading the rules on the EU site you will realise that there are 3-4 topics, like immigration, free movement and HCHR we have objections……all other subjects, we are in full agreement. Well I am sure they could have negotiated, the past 3 years all articles we do not agree or have objections and at the end of the day, transpose the new agreements into our Law and let tas it is the previously EU  directives/transposed Laws to the British Law, in place. Take a look to see how Switzerland deals with such matters and are not full members of the EU. They could easily copy their example for the NI Back stop!
   
9)   The “Conservative and Unionist Party” are controlled and financed by the Jewish Banking Mafia, they are responsible for the creation of Israel, the “Balfour Declaration of 1926” and now they follow their instructions for the NWO, as they call it and of course the 4th Baron Rothschild, Jacob Rothschild, takes care of them. The same Banking Mafia is controlling also the USA administration.

Of course the Cons, for their failure with Brexit, now they accuse Jeremy Corbyn for “Anti-Semitism”and causing huge problems in his party!

But it was T. May who imposed to our Laws the Zionist definition for “Anti-Semitism” not Corbyn!
Have you noticed by controlling all the Mass Media apart from Mirror, how they are attacking and lying against J. Corbyn?

The previous and current PM and their Neo-Liberal Party only care about their pockets not about their country or anybody else and on the way they are destroying GB and our lives.

BTW sometime ago, I read and posted that the "Paris Club" and City of London met in Paris and agreed to continue, with the EU permission the same as they have been today.

Brexit no Brexit..... No changes for the money men and their servants!

CORRUPTOCRATS OF THE EUSSR

The European Council has picked the EU’s new rulers. They include a convicted fraudster, a punisher of the Greek working classes, and politicians who were unpopular in their own countries. The EU’s anti-democracy stands exposed:


Ursula von der Leyen, of Germany’s CDU, has been put forward to be president of the European Commission, subject to parliamentary approval.

Belgian PM Charles Michel will be president of the European Council

Christine Lagarde looks set to take the reins of the European Central Bank.

Online andrewfi

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Re: Yes Minister explains the EU
« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2019, 11:10:44 AM »
Wiz, let us give this another shot.

In my post written above to which you take objection, please tell me one point made that is untrue. Tell me how I got it wrong. Don't bother trying to introduce a strawman, that simply shows the weakness of your knowledge and insight.

Also, please note that I am sure that there is an honest politician in Greece, there are hardworking Greeks, there are Greeks who are happy to pay their taxes (or have no opportunity to do otherwise). In a short forum post, one is not conducting a census. The points I made were and are applicable, based in reality and the concepts are real.

If you doubt me, then go do some learning, grab a textbook or two. I have published some booklists on this forum in the past, refer to them.
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

Offline Wiz

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Re: Yes Minister explains the EU
« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2019, 05:01:12 PM »
Wiz, let us give this another shot.

In my post written above to which you take objection, please tell me one point made that is untrue. Tell me how I got it wrong. Don't bother trying to introduce a strawman, that simply shows the weakness of your knowledge and insight.

Also, please note that I am sure that there is an honest politician in Greece, there are hardworking Greeks, there are Greeks who are happy to pay their taxes (or have no opportunity to do otherwise). In a short forum post, one is not conducting a census. The points I made were and are applicable, based in reality and the concepts are real.

If you doubt me, then go do some learning, grab a textbook or two. I have published some booklists on this forum in the past, refer to them.

It is pretty clear that your approach and tone in your posts is very condescending and arrogant.  I made this point earlier but you did not take the hint. Today you continue on the same lines and you make a mistake because I am not Moby.

A) Have you made the effort to read all of my latest posts and also those posted in Greek language back in 2013? My guess is that you have not read any of them but if you have,  clearly  you did not understand what I am/was talking about.

B) On my post "The perfect Crime is ... the one that is Legal" and at post No 5, I posted ...  The history of the Greek economy and if you had read it you would have a better idea of what I was talking about and what really went on in Greece since the fall of the Junta in 1973, regarding the economy and also the protagonists politicians who completely destroyed, impoverish, sold off my country for a song,  enslaved it and subordinated in a perpetual debt, till the end of the 21 Century, mainly to the Germans and the City Of London!

C) Then you started talking not only for the politicians but also the usual propaganda of the European mass media especially the British one that the Greeks are lazy, Paying no Taxes, and so on.

D) Do you think you know better the Modern history of my country, during WWII and after till today?

Do you know the role of the UK and your PM Churchill and his effort to impose his puppet the King George the II.  Are you aware that Greece destroyed by the Germans during the War,  in 1946 was embroiled in a terrible Civil War instigated By your PM Churchill ?

Are you aware that in 1947 the Americans took over running Greece, because you could not support financially the quislings - fascists and German collaborators, whom their families not only have been running but also robbing the country dry and of course, ever since the CIA is running the country?

E) Finally, If only you happen to know well the modern history of Greece then we could debate, as long as you  change your condescending and arrogant. attitude, otherwise please continue debating with Moby. Thank you.

 tiphat