The World's #1 Russian, Ukrainian & Eastern European Discussion & Information Forum - RUA!

This Is the Premier Discussion Forum on the Net for Information and Discussion about Russia, Ukraine, Eastern Europe and the Former Soviet Union. Discuss Culture, Politics, Travelling, Language, International Relationships and More. Chat with Travellers, Locals, Residents and Expats. Ask and Answer Questions about Travel, Culture, Relationships, Applying for Visas, Translators, Interpreters, and More. Give Advice, Read Trip Reports, Share Experiences and Make Friends.

Author Topic: D-Day… More Drama Than Decisive in World War II Victory  (Read 6581 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Wiz

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5131
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: D-Day… More Drama Than Decisive in World War II Victory
« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2019, 09:39:45 AM »
Priceless

Wiz quoting Quota as 'validation'..

US personnel have their lives in the D Day landings and there after, had already done so in the Italian campaign and the bombing missions that helped destroy Nazi infrastructure, which is much under played, meaning the Soviets and western fronts had to deal with Nazi units who were increasingly deprived of hardware, fuel and munitions..

Soviet infantry troops had far less cover and were frequently  thrown at the Nazi's in huge nembers before their heavy armour was wiped out..causing huge casualties.

Is their s subject you can deliver that demonstrates some knowledge, rather than seeking attention for serial howlers?

This is 101 stuff, Wiz..

Ask an old Antie to tell you when the American's first arrived in teh UK and what they were doing until D-day?

And what do you know about Russian troops on the war?

You were not even born ... I was.

 :ROFL:
Why the sun does not shine on the Ex- British Empire Anymore? Because God never trusted an Englishman in the dark!

Offline msmoby

  • BANNED
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11242
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • BANNED
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: D-Day… More Drama Than Decisive in World War II Victory
« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2019, 09:52:36 AM »
More Wiz revisionist history...

The Battle of Britain and the destruction of the RAF took longer and ultimately failed...so no operation Sealion...


In addition, those naughty Yugoslavs had to be subjugated ..so Barbarossa was delayed 38 days..

So...not JUST the Greeks...




 
I have never claimed to be a Blue Beret

Spurious claims about 'seeing action' with the Blue Berets are debunked >here<

Here is my Russophobia/Kremlinphobia topic

Offline msmoby

  • BANNED
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11242
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • BANNED
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: D-Day… More Drama Than Decisive in World War II Victory
« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2019, 10:11:24 AM »




Ask an old Antie to tell you when the American's first arrived in teh UK and what they were doing until D-day?

And what do you know about Russian troops on the war?

You were not even born ... I was.

 :ROFL:

1/ so you had no counter..

2/ Naturally, I had Grrandparents, Parents ( though v.young) Aunts and Uncles who have regaled their experiences ...so second hand... 

3/ Remind us of your age that we can know how old you were to 'remember'...))

4/ SC's Dad was 54 when she was born..he had his leg's blown off in the final push for Berlin ..  Guess what...? Boy did he have some stories to tell.

5/  That US troops were not 'over fed, over sexed and over here' is not in doubt..Their ultimate sacrifice is not, either..
I have never claimed to be a Blue Beret

Spurious claims about 'seeing action' with the Blue Berets are debunked >here<

Here is my Russophobia/Kremlinphobia topic


Offline Contrarian

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 13097
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Just Looking
  • Trips: 1-5
D Day...The Reason Russia Isn’t Speaking German & Under The 3rd Reich
« Reply #28 on: June 13, 2019, 11:05:39 AM »
AvHdB is correct in that the allies, mostly the USA, gave substantial equipment and food to the Soviets.

In fact the amount and level of assistance we gave to the Soviet Union is astronomical, yet the Soviets (and now the Russians) have always tried to belittle our contributions.

I’m 100% certain this has already been debated and litigated on this forum, but due to Wiz’s dementia and stubbornness he frequently brings up old subjects.

A major thing the USA did for the Soviets was to give them locomotives, without which they never would have been able to get massive amounts of supplies from the Far East and Siberia over to the front with Germany. We also gave them 4 wheel drive Studebaker trucks.

Without US and British equipment assistance there is little doubt, zero, that the Soviets would have been defeated by Germany.

As Av mentions it was also allied aircraft which took out the vaunted German Air Force and began to destroy industrial production of weapons factories in the German heartland.

On top of that we opened up a ground war against the Germans in Sicily and then Italy proper.

We did all that even though we were busy fighting a war against the Japanese elsewhere. In fact our actions against the Japanese prevented them from invading the Russian Far East, which allowed Stalin to transfer those divisions over to the German front.

All of those things had to happen in order to give the very desperate Soviets some breathing room.

Yes the Soviets took enormous losses, and quite frankly it was their own damn fault. That idiot Stalin not only starved Millions, he also had the best and brightest military officers rounded up, tortured and murdered during the Great Purges beginning in approximately 1936.

So initially 1 German infantry soldier was able to kill up to 10 Russians at the onset of combat (notice I’ll use Soviets and Russians as a term interchangeably). Throughout the entire war Germans had at least a 3 to 1 kill ratio against the Soviets. Initially it was horrendous due to poor training due to a lack of qualified Soviet officers, thanks to that genocidal asshole Stalin killing the best and brightest.

Remember jealousy, theft, torture and murder are always hallmarks of Communism and Stalin was one of the most evil, jealous and murderous of these monsters who ever walked the earth.

But no doubt in Wiz’s dementia weakened mind, all of these factors don’t seem to count, or better yet it’s the allies fault that Stalin killed his officers, his troops were poorly equipped, poorly trained and gave their lives at 10 to 1 ratios to the better trained, better equipped battle hardened Germans.

Quite frankly I agree with Patton, we supported the wrong side. At the very least we should have switched sides in 1944 and steamrolled the Russians back to Siberia. We should have liberated all of Eastern Europe and Western Russia as well.

We should have given the ungrateful dishonest Russians some property from Siberia to the Far East and invited Mao to make their lives as interesting as possible.

Any questions?  :coffeeread:

I already rebutted all of your nonsense in this particular post.  :coffeeread:

Offline Wiz

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5131
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+

BLAH BLAH BLAH

I already rebutted all of your nonsense in this particular post:coffeeread:

Objectivity is out of the window from all of you.... and I have many times made clear my position about it. The only thing you care is to attack Wiz and destroy anything he is posting on this board.

Can any of you post in chronological order, when the Russians joined the war and what happen and of course when the Alllies made their attack on D-Day and what happened afterwards, until the TOTAL German Capitulation?

When we clarify the above then we can talk about who helped etc........and of course won the war!


Meanwhile Read this old article from August 2004 Did Russia win D-Day? by Eric Margolis of Canada  and Published on the NorthStar website:

https://www.northstarcompass.org/nsc0408/dday.htm

Did Russia Win D-Day?

Sometimes from a vicious anti-Sovieteer comes the truth. This was written by Eric Margolis of Canada.

If the Soviet Union hadn’t chewed up millions of German soldiers and weapons, D-Day would have failed.

It’s high time that Russia was accorded recognition, especially during the last June celebrations in France on the occasion of the 60th Anniversary of the invasion of Normandy, France. Most North Americans believe that the US, Canadian and British invasion of Normandy was the decisive stroke of the war. Not so, in my view.

When the Allies invaded France, most of the war-battered German units they met were undermanned, short of armor, trucks, heavy artillery, almost immobile, and reduced to less that 40% combat effectiveness by previous hard fighting on the Eastern Front.

Most important, Germany’s once splendid air force was almost extinct. German forces at Normandy had almost no air cover and were pounded by the Allies day and night by thousands of Allied air strikes and bombers. Few of us recall that close to 20,000 innocent French civilians were killed by our bombing raids!

I am arguing that the German Wehrmacht was not defeated in France, but on the Eastern Front, during the 1941-44. The Red Army destroyed 507 German divisions, 48,000 German tanks and 77,000 German aircraft; 100 divisions of Nazi-allied Romanian, Hungary and Italy; and at least 450,000 Japanese soldiers, 32% of Japan’s total military losses.

Of Germany’s 10,000,000 casualties in World War II, over 75% came by fighting the Red Army. The German air force lost most of its planes and pilots on the Eastern Front. The gigantic battles on the Eastern Front ground down millions of lives.

Soviet Union lost over 20,000,000 people besides in the Pacific battles against Japan - they lost close to 1,000,000. D-Day was just a diversionary sideshow to tie down German troops while the Red Army pushed towards Berlin.

Some people may dispute this, but it is a historical fact that Germany’s military capability was destroyed way before the D-Day ever took place in June of 1944. It is interesting to speculate as to what would have happened to us in the West if Hitler did not invade USSR and if the Allies decided to land in Normandy to face the intact German machine! In my view, the Allies would have been beaten.

 tiphat

And I have already answered your questions before you made your posts but as usual you did not read my post and started telling us your opinion.

Sorry I cannot help you if you need glasses....
:'(
Why the sun does not shine on the Ex- British Empire Anymore? Because God never trusted an Englishman in the dark!

Offline Contrarian

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 13097
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Just Looking
  • Trips: 1-5

BLAH BLAH BLAH

I already rebutted all of your nonsense in this particular post:coffeeread:

Objectivity is out of the window from all of you.... and I have many times made clear my position about it. The only thing you care is to attack Wiz and destroy anything he is posting on this board.

Can any of you post in chronological order, when the Russians joined the war and what happen and of course when the Alllies made their attack on D-Day and what happened afterwards, until the TOTAL German Capitulation?

When we clarify the above then we can talk about who helped etc........and of course won the war!


Meanwhile Read this old article from August 2004 Did Russia win D-Day? by Eric Margolis of Canada  and Published on the NorthStar website:

https://www.northstarcompass.org/nsc0408/dday.htm

Did Russia Win D-Day?

Sometimes from a vicious anti-Sovieteer comes the truth. This was written by Eric Margolis of Canada.

If the Soviet Union hadn’t chewed up millions of German soldiers and weapons, D-Day would have failed.

It’s high time that Russia was accorded recognition, especially during the last June celebrations in France on the occasion of the 60th Anniversary of the invasion of Normandy, France. Most North Americans believe that the US, Canadian and British invasion of Normandy was the decisive stroke of the war. Not so, in my view.

When the Allies invaded France, most of the war-battered German units they met were undermanned, short of armor, trucks, heavy artillery, almost immobile, and reduced to less that 40% combat effectiveness by previous hard fighting on the Eastern Front.

Most important, Germany’s once splendid air force was almost extinct. German forces at Normandy had almost no air cover and were pounded by the Allies day and night by thousands of Allied air strikes and bombers. Few of us recall that close to 20,000 innocent French civilians were killed by our bombing raids!

I am arguing that the German Wehrmacht was not defeated in France, but on the Eastern Front, during the 1941-44. The Red Army destroyed 507 German divisions, 48,000 German tanks and 77,000 German aircraft; 100 divisions of Nazi-allied Romanian, Hungary and Italy; and at least 450,000 Japanese soldiers, 32% of Japan’s total military losses.

Of Germany’s 10,000,000 casualties in World War II, over 75% came by fighting the Red Army. The German air force lost most of its planes and pilots on the Eastern Front. The gigantic battles on the Eastern Front ground down millions of lives.

Soviet Union lost over 20,000,000 people besides in the Pacific battles against Japan - they lost close to 1,000,000. D-Day was just a diversionary sideshow to tie down German troops while the Red Army pushed towards Berlin.

Some people may dispute this, but it is a historical fact that Germany’s military capability was destroyed way before the D-Day ever took place in June of 1944. It is interesting to speculate as to what would have happened to us in the West if Hitler did not invade USSR and if the Allies decided to land in Normandy to face the intact German machine! In my view, the Allies would have been beaten.

 tiphat

And I have already answered your questions before you made your posts but as usual you did not read my post and started telling us your opinion.

Sorry I cannot help you if you need glasses....
:'(

https://www.webmd.com/alzheimers/guide/medicines-to-treat-dementia

Offline Wiz

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5131
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: D-Day… More Drama Than Decisive in World War II Victory
« Reply #31 on: June 13, 2019, 03:00:15 PM »

BLAH BLAH BLAH

I already rebutted all of your nonsense in this particular post:coffeeread:

And I have already answered your questions before you made your posts but as usual you did not read my post and started telling us your opinion.

Sorry I cannot help you if you need glasses....
:'(

https://www.webmd.com/alzheimers/guide/medicines-to-treat-dementia

Advice for Healthy Living

 tiphat
Why the sun does not shine on the Ex- British Empire Anymore? Because God never trusted an Englishman in the dark!

Offline dcguyusa

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1555
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: North America, South America, Europe, Asia
  • Status: Just Looking
  • Trips: None Yet
Re: D-Day… More Drama Than Decisive in World War II Victory
« Reply #32 on: June 13, 2019, 04:55:43 PM »
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/03/190312103702.htm

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/324710.php

https://www.marke*snip*ch.com/story/theyre-magic-eating-mushrooms-could-slash-risk-of-cognitive-decline-by-50-2019-03-22

Time to load up on Moo Goo Gai Pan.   :chuckle:

The *snip* on the URL link above needs to be replaced by T-W-A-T.    :ROFL:   :duh: (:)
An uninformed opponent is a dangerous opponent.

"Y'all be makin shit up" ~ Markeith Loyd

Online andrewfi

  • Supporting Member
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 20730
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Articles About Almost Anything!
Re: D-Day… More Drama Than Decisive in World War II Victory
« Reply #33 on: June 14, 2019, 04:51:42 AM »
There's little doubt that if the western allies had not invaded Europe through France that Russia would have rolled across Europe and that was the real reason for the invasion. It was unacceptable to both Britain and the USA that Russia should replace Germany as the European hegemon.

One can argue about lend-lease and its effect upon Russia. Based upon what I know, I doubt that Russia would've fallen without it. By the time lend-lease started to flow, Russia had already moved its manufacturing to the east of the Urals and was already producing more materiel than the Germans. The Germans would have advanced further but with the extended supply lines would have been beaten back. Something that most outsiders do not know is that most of the movement of supplies on the German Eastern Front was by horse and could not support the vast effort required to subdue Russia. The German goals in Russia were originally to obtain access to raw materials, in particular, energy from southern Russia and surrounding regions. It was hubris that led to the distractions which caused the failure of the primary objective.

The overarching effect of D-Day was to place most of Western Europe under allied control and that was the strategic goal of the invasion. Germany would've lost the war without D-Day. German defences in the west, in France, in particular, had already been weakened to support the Russian advances on the Eastern Front
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

Offline Wiz

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5131
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: D-Day… More Drama Than Decisive in World War II Victory
« Reply #34 on: June 14, 2019, 07:51:10 AM »
Priceless

Wiz quoting Quota as 'validation'..

US personnel have their lives in the D Day landings and there after, had already done so in the Italian campaign and the bombing missions that helped destroy Nazi infrastructure, which is much under played, meaning the Soviets and western fronts had to deal with Nazi units who were increasingly deprived of hardware, fuel and munitions..

Soviet infantry troops had far less cover and were frequently  thrown at the Nazi's in huge nembers before their heavy armour was wiped out..causing huge casualties.

Is their s subject you can deliver that demonstrates some knowledge, rather than seeking attention for serial howlers?

This is 101 stuff, Wiz..

Mr Mastermind

I did not point Quora as validating source but the fact that I got the information from there. If I did not mentioned my source you would be shouting "Playarism", "copy and paste", "Busted" and so on together with the other sheeps on the board.

I will never try to revise and change the history to anything than Objective Discussion. Unfortunately you and your USA friends.... don't see it that way. As members of the last Empire and the ex British Empire, both have the habit and that superiority attitude that it's your prerogative to rewrite history as suits you.

Sorry old chap.......I don't subscribe to that school of thought!

Go and talk to your friend Boris on how he can sell the NHS to the American with impunity, as there are plenty of idiots to vote for him....... Labour and all other parties are bloody Communists and Marxists  and not patriots.!

I agree with you that Stalin after he purged the echelons of the army....he used the tactic of the big numbers, to stop and finally turn around the German attack... and then reach Berlin before the other Allies, NOT CARING FOR THE LOSES OF DEAD AND WOONDED SOLDIERS.

Good idea if you read Andrews Views.... another revisionist like Wiz. :ROFL:

 :offtopic:

Just checked the temperature in Sochi.....

Sochi, Krasnodar Krai, Russia
Friday
Isolated Thunderstorms
Isolated Thunderstorms
27°C | °F
Precipitation: 30%
Humidity: 76%
Wind: 13 mph
Temperature Precipitation Wind

Must be very hot!


 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


Why the sun does not shine on the Ex- British Empire Anymore? Because God never trusted an Englishman in the dark!

Offline Wiz

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5131
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: D-Day… More Drama Than Decisive in World War II Victory
« Reply #35 on: June 14, 2019, 11:53:35 AM »
Top Russia Anchor Explains Why British Left Out
Russia & Putin From D-Day 75th Anniversary Events




:coffeeread:



Why the sun does not shine on the Ex- British Empire Anymore? Because God never trusted an Englishman in the dark!

Offline msmoby

  • BANNED
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11242
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • BANNED
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: D-Day… More Drama Than Decisive in World War II Victory
« Reply #36 on: June 15, 2019, 09:19:21 AM »
There now follows 'legendary' andrewfi self affirmation bollox:

There's little doubt that if the western allies had not invaded Europe through France that Russia would have rolled across Europe and that was the real reason for the invasion.

Whilst there might be few people that doubt the defeat at Stalingrad, I wonder if you missed Stalin constantly bemoaning the other allies for lack of action from the west?

Yours is but a pointless hypothesis. ...

The SOVIETS..(not 'Russians' ) benefitted from the kit sent via the Arctic convoys, the aerial pummeling of the Nazi's ability to manufacture kit, ammo and fuel supplies....let alone the need to fight on southern and western fronts.


That there was a race to gain Nazi tech and know-how is not debated..


 It was unacceptable to both Britain and the USA that Russia should replace Germany as the European hegemon.

Is your use of 'Russia' a Freudian slip?..

I am wondering if andrewfi has ever bothered to read of agreements made at Tehran, Yalta and Potsdam?  His scribes suggest not.. In Egypt the Allies (minus Stalin !) had even agreed that China should play a greater role in macro agreements after the war...

So much for another andrewfi 'pronouncement'....


One can argue about lend-lease and its effect upon Russia. Based upon what I know,

...and what do you 'know'?

I know that 97 percent of the Arctic Convoys got through and that the Allies got through 16 million tonnes of aid ( 4  million of it via the Arctic convoys) and half of it arrived via the Asian seaboard before the Japanese entered the war in Dec 1941.....



I doubt that Russia would've fallen without it. By the time lend-lease started to flow, Russia had already moved its manufacturing to the east of the Urals and was already producing more materiel than the Germans.

Have you facts and figures for the Soviet and Nazi out put?  This is yet another andrewfi 'theory'.. You were probably not aware of the 8 million tonnes supplied from the Asian ports by Allies BEFORE the victory in Stalingrad...


The overarching effect of D-Day was to place most of Western Europe under allied control and that was the strategic goal of the invasion. Germany would've lost the war without D-Day. German defences in the west, in France, in particular, had already been weakened to support the Russian advances on the Eastern Front

More hypotheses which can be debated forever, but to what end?

You do not know what would have happened if the Germans had been able to implement accurate delivery of V2' or put jet fighter into production, earlier..

The Soviets would not have been able to advance as fast without the Nazi's inability to replenish from their industrial heartland...Where the Soviets bombing these targets? ...

When you make VERY silly statements...expect to be busted..

Last night, my guest was a chap who's Dad was a recipient of the Ushakov medal.

You might now 'get' the level of repugnance your post invoked...

I have never claimed to be a Blue Beret

Spurious claims about 'seeing action' with the Blue Berets are debunked >here<

Here is my Russophobia/Kremlinphobia topic

Offline Wiz

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5131
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: D-Day… More Drama Than Decisive in World War II Victory
« Reply #37 on: June 22, 2019, 04:35:08 AM »
Typical Moby bullshit...... and a wasted of my time effort reading it, again!

Just a reminder......

Today is the Anniversary of the
German Invasion in the USSR in 1941

German Invasion of the USSR


Invading the Soviet Union 1941 -
Just Stupid? - Barbarossa without Hindsight






Why the sun does not shine on the Ex- British Empire Anymore? Because God never trusted an Englishman in the dark!

Offline msmoby

  • BANNED
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11242
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • BANNED
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: D-Day… Decisive in World War II Victory
« Reply #38 on: June 22, 2019, 05:12:17 AM »
Dear Wiz,

it is only 'BS' when you cannot counter valid points ..    :coffeeread:
I have never claimed to be a Blue Beret

Spurious claims about 'seeing action' with the Blue Berets are debunked >here<

Here is my Russophobia/Kremlinphobia topic

Online andrewfi

  • Supporting Member
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 20730
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Articles About Almost Anything!
Re: D-Day… More Drama Than Decisive in World War II Victory
« Reply #39 on: June 22, 2019, 01:41:18 PM »
Moby, when you want to leave the kid's table and join the adults please show some respect and turn up with the requisite knowledge to talk as an adult and not a thoughtless, ill-informed kid. That's a good lad.

I do not have the time to go through your childish attempts at making points. When you do some learning the need for my assistance will become unnecessary and you will have grown, just a little.
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

Offline Contrarian

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 13097
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Just Looking
  • Trips: 1-5
Re: D-Day… More Drama Than Decisive in World War II Victory
« Reply #40 on: June 22, 2019, 03:08:23 PM »
Moby, when you want to leave the kid's table and join the adults please show some respect and turn up with the requisite knowledge to talk as an adult and not a thoughtless, ill-informed kid. That's a good lad.

I do not have the time to go through your childish attempts at making points. When you do some learning the need for my assistance will become unnecessary and you will have grown, just a little.

IOW you have no rebuttal because he busted your dishonest propaganda.

When you get a real education and can make cogent arguments in the English language get back to us.

I don’t often agree with Moby yet in this case his argument is spot on.  :thumbsup:

You can be sure the Russians would have been speaking German minus the enormous assistance of the British and Americans.

Offline Wiz

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5131
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: D-Day… More Drama Than Decisive in World War II Victory
« Reply #41 on: June 23, 2019, 12:42:44 AM »
Dear Wiz,

it is only 'BS' when you cannot counter valid points ..    :coffeeread:

Dr Paisley.........it's better to take AVHDB's Advice......find somebody to get laid..... and then comeback to have a serious conversation. If you think you upset me with your comments..... I can  assure that I don't give  a fcuk for your beligerent behaviour.

The only thing you do is all the time to regurgitate the same subject over and over again in the hope that your view will win the argument.

Nobody refused that the Lease lent support obviously has helped the USSR but the fact remains....... it came very late in the fight.

Stalingrad was the German Waterloo.......and after they lost the chance to take over the city.... the clock turned around..... the new production lines were working in full speed East of the Urals.....

The western Allies for their own reason delayed to join the war on Land......the Russians did not capitulate and they did advance fast towards Germany.   

In the previous posted articles...... all this has been analysed and the only thick MALAKAS who did not understand it's YOU.

 It is very noticeable that you always follow a different line from all other poster and always fall flat on your face. Grow up and stop watching naked photos and continue your child addiction.

You have become a boring old fart! Grow up forgot sake!

Finally I have already asked you, or anybody else to post a chronological list of events...... but nothing come from you or others.

End of the matter and respect the dead people who lost their life for you.

Confed...... don't follow Moby and loose any respect you gained with your latest realistic comments on another thread.

 tiphat


PS: Changing the titles of the posts show that you are the biggest Malakas (onanist) around.




Why the sun does not shine on the Ex- British Empire Anymore? Because God never trusted an Englishman in the dark!

Offline msmoby

  • BANNED
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11242
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • BANNED
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: D-Day… More Drama Than Decisive in World War II Victory
« Reply #42 on: June 23, 2019, 01:48:56 AM »
Moby, when you want to leave the kid's table and join the adults please show some respect and turn up with the requisite knowledge to talk as an adult and not a thoughtless, ill-informed kid. That's a good lad.

I do not have the time to go through your childish attempts at making points. When you do some learning the need for my assistance will become unnecessary and you will have grown, just a little.


 :ROFL:

'OK' so what you're actually saying is, " I cannot fault anything you say, so I'm reduced to inferring some sort of 'issue' with your 'maturity'  " ...



Dr Paisley.........it's better to take AVHDB's Advice......find somebody to get laid.....

Paisley's 'Doctor' came from some crappy US 'diploma' and I expect you use his name as you know I have zip respect for his role in N.Ireland .. Any advice AvHdB might have given suggests he knows some issue I'm unaware of ;)

I'm not busting your ( or some other revisionist historian) 'input' to upset ..



 Nobody refused that the Lease lent support obviously has helped the USSR but the fact remains....... it came very late in the fight.

So, you can't / won't / didn't read ...  ? I pointed out that 50% of l;ease Lend was delivered BEFORE the Stalingrad victory ..it's miltary and moral value has never been disputed by me .. I've been to Volograd - swam in the might Volga, been to the Panoram - seen the tractor factory, been to Mamayev Kurgan and the tombs carved out within and seen Vasily Zaitsev's simple memorial.. I need no diversionary 'lecture from the likes of you



The western Allies for their own reason delayed to join the war on Land......the Russians did not capitulate and they did advance fast towards Germany.   

Ah,

What was:

1/ The Africa Campaign?

2/ The Sicily Landings ?


3/ Operation Dragoon?

Before D-Day


In the previous posted articles...... all this has been analysed and the only thick MALAKAS who did not understand it's YOU.

Calling me a w*nk*r in Greek will not alter the fact that much of your posting was utter bollox and point - by point refuted ..  :coffeeread:

Finally I have already asked you, or anybody else to post a chronological list of events...... but nothing come from you or others.

I'm not helping you understand stuff you can learn for yourself - just countering bollox

End of the matter and respect the dead people who lost their life for you.

As long as you post nonsense - expect it to be challenged









I have never claimed to be a Blue Beret

Spurious claims about 'seeing action' with the Blue Berets are debunked >here<

Here is my Russophobia/Kremlinphobia topic

Online B.B.

  • Supporting Member
  • Moderator
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4803
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
Re: D-Day… More Drama Than Decisive in World War II Victory
« Reply #43 on: June 23, 2019, 08:20:51 AM »
While clearly the Russians did the heavy lifting in the East, here is a reminder for people who need it:

I call as my first witness, Marshal Stalin:

"Without American production the [Allies] could never have won the war.", Josef Stalin at the Teheran conference.

As my second witness, I call Marshal Georgy Zhukov:

"It is now said that the Allies never helped us . . . However, one cannot deny that the Americans gave us so much material, without which we could not have formed our reserves and could not have continued the war . . . we had no explosives and powder. There was none to equip rifle bullets. The Americans actually came to our assistance with powder and explosives. And how much sheet steel did they give us. We really could not have quickly put right our production of tanks if the Americans had not helped with steel. And today it seems as though we had all this ourselves in abundance." --Marshal Georgy Zhukov, quoted by Boris V. Sokolov

Toodles,

B/B
Saving the World, One Clue at a Time
If your religion insults my intelligence, don't be surprised when my intelligence insults your religion.

Online AvHdB

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 14933
  • Country: nl
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Ukraine, Kiev
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: D-Day… More Drama Than Decisive in World War II Victory
« Reply #44 on: June 23, 2019, 08:45:45 AM »
While Wiz and Andrew want to promote there revisionist history the reality is otherwise.

Germany decided to engage in a dual front War. America was forced into this reality and the fact is the United States won on both sides.
“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

Offline Contrarian

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 13097
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Just Looking
  • Trips: 1-5
Re: D-Day… More Drama Than Decisive in World War II Victory
« Reply #45 on: June 23, 2019, 09:29:17 AM »
While Wiz and Andrew want to promote there revisionist history the reality is otherwise.

Germany decided to engage in a dual front War. America was forced into this reality and the fact is the United States won on both sides.


Exactly! American industrial power won the war, never forget this!

Offline Contrarian

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 13097
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Just Looking
  • Trips: 1-5
Re: D-Day… More Drama Than Decisive in World War II Victory
« Reply #46 on: June 23, 2019, 09:34:52 AM »
While clearly the Russians did the heavy lifting in the East, here is a reminder for people who need it:

I call as my first witness, Marshal Stalin:

"Without American production the [Allies] could never have won the war.", Josef Stalin at the Teheran conference.

As my second witness, I call Marshal Georgy Zhukov:

"It is now said that the Allies never helped us . . . However, one cannot deny that the Americans gave us so much material, without which we could not have formed our reserves and could not have continued the war . . . we had no explosives and powder. There was none to equip rifle bullets. The Americans actually came to our assistance with powder and explosives. And how much sheet steel did they give us. We really could not have quickly put right our production of tanks if the Americans had not helped with steel. And today it seems as though we had all this ourselves in abundance." --Marshal Georgy Zhukov, quoted by Boris V. Sokolov

Toodles,

B/B

Very good post.

And what did the Soviet troops eat? Laugh if you will but Spam and other rations kept them going.

And how did the Soviets get those tanks from the factories over in Siberia all the way to the frontlines? With American locomotives. Without the ability to move the tanks, made with American steel, those tanks would have been over a thousand miles away from the frontline.


Online B.B.

  • Supporting Member
  • Moderator
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4803
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
Re: D-Day… More Drama Than Decisive in World War II Victory
« Reply #47 on: June 23, 2019, 10:46:28 AM »
Germany decided to engage in a dual front War. America was forced into this reality and the fact is the United States won on both sides.

Germany's fate was sealed, if not before, certainly when it declared war on America. 

Also, our Eurocentric friends seem to forget that America was fighting a two-front war also.

B/B
Saving the World, One Clue at a Time
If your religion insults my intelligence, don't be surprised when my intelligence insults your religion.

Offline Contrarian

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 13097
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Just Looking
  • Trips: 1-5
Re: D-Day… More Drama Than Decisive in World War II Victory
« Reply #48 on: June 23, 2019, 10:56:11 AM »
Germany decided to engage in a dual front War. America was forced into this reality and the fact is the United States won on both sides.

Germany's fate was sealed, if not before, certainly when it declared war on America. 

Also, our Eurocentric friends seem to forget that America was fighting a two-front war also.

B/B

Breaking the pact with the Soviets was the number one stupid thing the Germans did.

Declaring war on the USA was the second and decisive stupid thing they did.

Online AvHdB

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 14933
  • Country: nl
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Ukraine, Kiev
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: D-Day… More Drama Than Decisive in World War II Victory
« Reply #49 on: June 23, 2019, 11:03:13 AM »

A rather long song, but fascinating.

The explanations below explain much.


http://alstewart.com/publicfiles/HISTORY_roadstom.htm
“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot