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Author Topic: The Notre Dame Cathedral fire  (Read 636 times)

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Online Tom Cat

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The Notre Dame Cathedral fire
« on: April 15, 2019, 12:16:19 PM »
A piece of history is burning to the ground.

Don't shoot the messenger, links to articles posted, don't necessarily reflect my personal opinion.

Online Lord of the Dance

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Re: The Notre Dame Cathedral fire
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2019, 12:33:18 PM »
Very sad. Fire can be so terribly destructive. Any idea how it started yet?
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Offline Chris

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Re: The Notre Dame Cathedral fire
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2019, 12:57:40 PM »
Sad news for such a historic building, just been watching the news and live feed, saw the spire and roof collapse. Probably linked to renovation work that was being carried out.


Offline BillyB

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Re: The Notre Dame Cathedral fire
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2019, 02:42:49 PM »
Seen construction scaffolding at the scene. I'd bet money a construction worker accidently started the fire. Welding and soldering can do that.

Online Confederate

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Re: The Notre Dame Cathedral fire
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2019, 06:45:16 PM »
Seen construction scaffolding at the scene. I'd bet money a construction worker accidently started the fire. Welding and soldering can do that.

Accidentally or on purpose? This is the holiest week in Christendom, was it a deliberate act of terrorism?


https://europe.infowars.com/notre-dame-cathedral-in-paris-on-fire-worker-claims-it-was-deliberately-started/
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Online AvHdB

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Re: The Notre Dame Cathedral fire
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2019, 06:56:07 PM »
Seen construction scaffolding at the scene. I'd bet money a construction worker accidently started the fire. Welding and soldering can do that.

Accidentally or on purpose? This is the holiest week in Christendom, was it a deliberate act of terrorism?

https://europe.infowars.com/notre-dame-cathedral-in-paris-on-fire-worker-claims-it-was-deliberately-started/

An acquitance of mine about 15 years ago restored in the Dordogne a listed, high value structure. Not really a chateaux more of a fortified farm house. The government control was excessive, including each worker having his own fire extinguisher.

Off course what the government mandates and what the government does it self are two different matters. Just consider the fire in the Cats House in The Hague.
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Offline Manny

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Re: The Notre Dame Cathedral fire
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2019, 12:31:47 PM »
Seen construction scaffolding at the scene. I'd bet money a construction worker accidently started the fire. Welding and soldering can do that.

Accidentally or on purpose? This is the holiest week in Christendom, was it a deliberate act of terrorism?


https://europe.infowars.com/notre-dame-cathedral-in-paris-on-fire-worker-claims-it-was-deliberately-started/

Nick Griffin (ex leader of the British National Party) posted a photo on Twitter of two grinning Muslims with it burning in the background behind them. The suggestion being that Muslims may have been behind it.

Moby will be along in a minute - quoting the Guardian - to tell us that Muslims never spontaneously combust, destroy property, rape children or blow things up in the name of Allah.
please tell me where I'm being / have been 'dishonest'? 
Yes, he said that.........

Online msmoby

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Re: The Notre Dame Cathedral fire
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2019, 01:09:15 PM »
Moby understands French and watches the French news...

He will be along to point out your are either gullible or a member of the Aaron Banks fake news club.


Online andrewfi

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Re: The Notre Dame Cathedral fire
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2019, 01:09:15 PM »
Stefan Molyneux was making the point that there seems to have been a spate of defacements, arson attacks and vandalism on Catholic churches in France this year. He also made the point, and it seems reasonable, that while authorities are telling people that it is too early to jump to conclusions they are also telling us that there is no sign of the event being due to arson. Both those statements cannot be true at the same time.

The claim that the fire was not due to arson is a conclusion, just as a claim that it might have been arson is a conclusion and is a sure sign that we are being manipulated. That's not to say that the incident was, or was not arson - just that the manipulation is clear and that suggests a narrative is either prepared or in the process of preparation.

Given the degree of caution taken by contractors on projects of this type of work, it seems very unlikely that what happened was an accident. Just think of all the things that would have had to go wrong in a highly controlled environment, for this to have happened.

When I used to run a disaster restoration business we were not dealing with priceless cultural and religious artifacts but we took huge care to make sure that we damaged nothing or that we dd not make anything worse than when we first touched it. In all my years, running several franchise areas with multiple teams of workers, all trained in conservation and precaution, we only ever had one item claimed to have been damaged, a vase, in a fire-damaged house. Frankly, I did not believe the claim was genuine. However, that gave me a little context when reading reports into yesterday's events. Given the training and conditions under which the workers on this project laboured I find it hard to believe that somebody did something careless that led directly to this fire.

Either there was a whole series of events that went wrong allowing this unlikely event to happen, or the fire was deliberate. It is actually easier to think the event was due to arson than that a business that is successfully based upon the extreme caution needed to protect some of the most valuable objects in the world had a series of failings of management, systems, and equipment yesterday, in Paris. If the company had such a degree of failure built into it then there would have been evidence of it in other projects, with less grave outcomes.
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Online AvHdB

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Re: The Notre Dame Cathedral fire
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2019, 02:51:08 PM »
While the experience of my acquaintance in France was somewhat different than what Andrew sketches it has similarities. The amount of control and almost meddling amazed me. A private individual restores a landmark at his own cost and the government tells him what size nails to use, the type of potties and type of heating system.

If I were to guess based on the available information presently this was a chain of events that led to the outcome, a disaster.

As I recall Windsor Castle was also subject to a serious fire. What was the background of that?
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Online Confederate

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Re: The Notre Dame Cathedral fire
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2019, 07:59:23 PM »
Stefan Molyneux was making the point that there seems to have been a spate of defacements, arson attacks and vandalism on Catholic churches in France this year. He also made the point, and it seems reasonable, that while authorities are telling people that it is too early to jump to conclusions they are also telling us that there is no sign of the event being due to arson. Both those statements cannot be true at the same time.

The claim that the fire was not due to arson is a conclusion, just as a claim that it might have been arson is a conclusion and is a sure sign that we are being manipulated. That's not to say that the incident was, or was not arson - just that the manipulation is clear and that suggests a narrative is either prepared or in the process of preparation.

Given the degree of caution taken by contractors on projects of this type of work, it seems very unlikely that what happened was an accident. Just think of all the things that would have had to go wrong in a highly controlled environment, for this to have happened.

When I used to run a disaster restoration business we were not dealing with priceless cultural and religious artifacts but we took huge care to make sure that we damaged nothing or that we dd not make anything worse than when we first touched it. In all my years, running several franchise areas with multiple teams of workers, all trained in conservation and precaution, we only ever had one item claimed to have been damaged, a vase, in a fire-damaged house. Frankly, I did not believe the claim was genuine. However, that gave me a little context when reading reports into yesterday's events. Given the training and conditions under which the workers on this project laboured I find it hard to believe that somebody did something careless that led directly to this fire.

Either there was a whole series of events that went wrong allowing this unlikely event to happen, or the fire was deliberate. It is actually easier to think the event was due to arson than that a business that is successfully based upon the extreme caution needed to protect some of the most valuable objects in the world had a series of failings of management, systems, and equipment yesterday, in Paris. If the company had such a degree of failure built into it then there would have been evidence of it in other projects, with less grave outcomes.


Excellent analysis Andrew, thank you.  :thumbsup:
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Online msmoby

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Re: The Notre Dame Cathedral fire
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2019, 08:13:09 PM »
AvHdB

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/spotlight-is-blamed-for-blaze-at-windsor-1561542.html

Q for those determined to make every incidents terrorist act...   

Are your lives that boring? This is the 21st C.. 

Those perpetrating such an act seek to claim blame ...



Online andrewfi

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Re: The Notre Dame Cathedral fire
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2019, 12:11:22 AM »
The Windsor Castle fire was due to carelessness and a lack of precautionary measures. To mention it suggests that we do not learn from our mistakes.

Interestingly, just as with Notre Dame, quite literally the day before the conflagration, contents of several of the rooms due to be burned had been removed. Funny how that happens, just another coincidence in a long line of coincidences required for the story to play out as it did.

The cynic in me is reminded to point out that a coincidence is merely two events with a connection that we do not yet know.
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Online msmoby

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Re: The Notre Dame Cathedral fire
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2019, 01:40:46 AM »
Ri-ight....

So, while doing rennovations priceless artifacts do not get moved to another place?

So much for conspiracy theories

Online rosco

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Re: The Notre Dame Cathedral fire
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2019, 04:50:32 AM »
Moby, you have the same information as everyone else although I'm not fluent in French with a Parisian accent like yourself, but I'd be interested to hear why you have almost polar opposite views on the subject, as in almost every other debate?

From what I can see, there appears to be some suspicion surrounding the fire at one of the worlds greatest christian land marks, in a country currently troubled with multiple islamic terrorist incidents and a large muslim population. There's also a huge amount of recent data to suggest that christian landmarks are being targeted for vandalism and arson in France. Logically its right to question whats happened and investigate if there will be a cover up for the good of diversity.

Nobody here has said for sure that this is the case but questions are rightly being asked. I also tend to agree with Andy on this because any contractor working in one of the most historically & culturally rich locations in the world, would have a very strict protocol and framework to work within. Accidents do happen but the likelihood of this happening due to an accident must be minuscule. If it was an accident, describing it as hugely unfortunate would be an understatement and it would involve a very long sequence of failed protocol for it to have happened. Still, its a possibility.

The photo Manny mentions (which I have seen) could also be unfortunate and innocent but the laughing emojis (literally thousands) on all the Facebook news pages by people from the islamic world or people with "muslim" names appears to practically portray an appetite for such an event to happen? Again, it could be coincidence but I'm inclined to think that there's a hate thing going on here, irrespective of how innocent you paint it.

So, with all this information and being mindful that I'm not yet pointing the finger at anyone, but merely keeping an open mind, why is it that you so staunchly and firmly believe that it couldn't be arson or a terrorist attack?

You have the same information and no proof, yet you appear to be adamant that it wasn't the muzzies. Is this belief based on liberal ideals and are you one of those secretly hoping it was a white male who did it?