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Author Topic: VK Ban for Ukrainians!?!  (Read 16463 times)

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Offline alwayspete

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Re: VK Ban for Ukrainians!?!
« Reply #75 on: April 06, 2019, 04:13:14 AM »
Nope, you're wrong.
But what do I know. I just sit in my Lay-Z-Boy in idaho, crossing swords with an obvious expert; well clued up on online dating, international relationships and life in Eastern Europe.  :popcorn:

You do really like your popcorn. :") Cheers to that! Thanks for the interesting conversation. Please stop calling me an expert on anything. I'm not. I'm just sharing what I've learned. Truce?

Pete :")

Offline msmoby

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Re: VK Ban for Ukrainians!?!
« Reply #76 on: April 06, 2019, 04:44:08 AM »

So, yes, you try to track me down elsewhere, using information found on the site I joined makes you a stalker.



What andrewfi fails to tell you is that - often - the lady when contacted - following research -  is often pleased to hear from you - never having communicated with you before ;)

Hardly 'stalking'

IF a lady is not pleased at an attempt at direct contact - circumvententing an agency / pay by letter site and you persist - THAT would be stalking


I found my Wife to be by 'detective work' - although the reason was that she had not logged in to the web sites for ages ..   


I want to be honest .. she was initially shocked and referred to me as 'Sherlock Holmes' in a negative way..  But it only took the move from email ( this is five years ago ) to Skype and the rest is history ..


Andrewfi is perennially single and not exactly the 'expert' he suggests

He is rather TOO fond of posting estimations of others' lives - that are risible in their veracity and often posts 'conclusions' based on 'data' he dreams up ..

Still want you to consider that you are just another - in a long line of guys  - which has included myself - who is funding a shyster section of the dating industry !

I have never claimed to be a Blue Beret

Spurious claims about 'seeing action' with the Blue Berets are debunked >here<

Here is my Russophobia/Kremlinphobia topic

Offline alwayspete

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Re: VK Ban for Ukrainians!?!
« Reply #77 on: April 06, 2019, 05:45:25 AM »

Yes, the IMBRA law was passed and applies to USA residents.  However, some dating agencies have tried to use it for other residents as well. For the most part, people in the USA consider it be more "red tape".

Online dating is becoming more common than local dating.  Yes, it should be easier to contact people from all over the world more easier now than 20 years ago.  But many here in this country do not date over the internet and I am sure many overseas will not do so as well.  Dating overseas carries the implication that you will have to sacrifice your life in your native land to change direction drastically.  The vast majority of the world will not do so (not counting the migrations at the southern US border and European migration from Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, etc.) even where romance is concerned.  Note that the women do not have any contact restrictions when dating local guys, so you see the inequality being applied here?

Regarding a "body guard" during dating a stranger.  Advice has been given not to do dating with a stranger without adequate protection and supervision.  You could lose your life.  While very rare, some out there have significant mental problems.

UADreams was among one of the few sites that I looked at over several years ago.  They allow you to write a free introductory letter to any profile.  I wrote a letter to a lady who worked at a fitness center.  She later wrote back saying that she got a new job at another city and was cancelling her contract with the dating site and wished me good luck.  I guess that is how the ball bounces.   :duh:

What did you mean by the phrase 'people in the USA consider it be more "red tape"'. I didn't understand.

I also tried the services of UADreams for a short period. To be honest, I had more communication with their customer service representative than the models there. Their customer support told me that contradictory to popular belief, there are many good men in Ukraine & most women there are not interested in foreigners or leaving the country and are very satisfied by the lives they lead. Sure life is more convenient & blissful to stay in one's own country with family, friends & relatives around. They said that only a minority among them really look for foreign husbands. But the ones who are looking really don't mind a change in scenario. Other wise why even bother to seek a foreign man, right?

A body guard during dating a stranger. Yes I was told by their customer support about the possibility of men with mental issues visiting them. Hence the safety precaution. I know UADreams compulsorily arrange the first meeting of their clients at their branch offices, in the presence of a translator or branch manager. They act as the woman's body guard for the 1st hour during the first meet. This is a good safety measure for both individuals involved.

But the downside to this is in order for the 1st meet to ever happen it is mandatory that the male client must choose their ridiculously priced trip packages to meet the lady at their branch & only at their branch. No other public place. Also this agency will never reveal it's branches location address to you until you've paid for the trip package. Every service they provide will costs you 3 times the actual cost. You don't have the freedom to do things your own way. The translation charges are cut throat as well! They have 14 branches all over UKR. But not even one address is on the website. There is no name or photograph of the owner or the branches external view. Some of their previous clients who visited their multiple branches stated in their reviews that their offices are in very remote locations, had no billboard advertising saying 'UADreams'. But instead there was only an A2 size print out stuck on the front door glass that read something like 'free photo portfolio'. How credible of an agency is that?!

At least the reply that you got from the lady at UADreams sounded authentic and not repetitive or duplicated. She could have been real! Did she say which city she moved to. They have branch offices in most states. All she had to do was transfer her profile. Maybe she lost interest in on-line dating. What was your overall impression of this agency in the end of it all? How long where you there for? I was there for a month and a half.

Pete :")


Offline alwayspete

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Re: VK Ban for Ukrainians!?!
« Reply #78 on: April 06, 2019, 06:10:16 AM »

So, yes, you try to track me down elsewhere, using information found on the site I joined makes you a stalker.



What andrewfi fails to tell you is that - often - the lady when contacted - following research -  is often pleased to hear from you - never having communicated with you before ;)

Hardly 'stalking'

IF a lady is not pleased at an attempt at direct contact - circumvententing an agency / pay by letter site and you persist - THAT would be stalking


I found my Wife to be by 'detective work' - although the reason was that she had not logged in to the web sites for ages ..   


I want to be honest .. she was initially shocked and referred to me as 'Sherlock Holmes' in a negative way..  But it only took the move from email ( this is five years ago ) to Skype and the rest is history ..


Andrewfi is perennially single and not exactly the 'expert' he suggests

He is rather TOO fond of posting estimations of others' lives - that are risible in their veracity and often posts 'conclusions' based on 'data' he dreams up ..

Still I want you to consider that you are just another - in a long line of guys  - which has included myself - who is funding a shyster section of the dating industry !

Thanks for making clear the true meaning of the word 'stalking'. If the lady does not appreciate it, sure I won't trouble her any more. But her inappreciativeness stems from 1 of 2 reasons.

1). Either the agency has misused her photographs and she doesn't have a clue about you or your heart-touching, romantic letters. Hence she's not interested in you.

OR

2). The lady is a scammer and even could be getting paid for her time writing letters & video chatting with you. Hence the interest on the dating site and none on direct contact.

Really you did some detective work? That's a good move. It just shows your true genuine concern for the lady. I'm sure she did understand your reasons for it and appreciated it at some level even if not directly expressed. Other wise the progress from email to Skype would have been delayed or might have never happened.

You've got really good English language skills, especially in the sentences towards the end of your post. Do you do formal writing like thesis writing for research? No pun or offence meant Andrewfi.

Pete :")

Offline Steveboy

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Re: VK Ban for Ukrainians!?!
« Reply #79 on: April 07, 2019, 10:18:54 AM »
Pete!

Here is some other good advice. do not waste your time learning the Ukrainian language, for what do you need to learn this for?

After 12 months you would of given up completely disillusioned and all that time learning Ukrainian would of been a waste of time, your never going to need to speak it in your life..

It is better just spending some time for a few months to see if any Ukrainian women are interested in you. Forget about your UADreams experience , those women were not interested in you in any way other than financially..

Try with some REAL women first then take it from there..
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Online Guile

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Re: VK Ban for Ukrainians!?!
« Reply #80 on: April 07, 2019, 11:50:04 AM »

I found my Wife to be by 'detective work' - although the reason was that she had not logged in to the web sites for ages ..   



why am I not surprised...Moby took the effort to find my ip, location, race and I ain't even a woman.  :ROFL: :laugh: :laugh:


Online Guile

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Re: VK Ban for Ukrainians!?!
« Reply #81 on: April 07, 2019, 11:52:20 AM »
Pete!

Here is some other good advice. do not waste your time learning the Ukrainian language, for what do you need to learn this for?


Most Ukrainians speak Russian anyways...better to learn Russian but again it's a TOUUUUGH language.

Offline Manny

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Re: VK Ban for Ukrainians!?!
« Reply #82 on: April 07, 2019, 12:19:11 PM »
But many here in this country do not date over the internet and I am sure many overseas will not do so as well. 

Id suggest that with the advent of sites like POF, Tinder, et al, online dating is now the norm in Europe.

Dating overseas carries the implication that you will have to sacrifice your life in your native land to change direction drastically.

Possibly for the better.

Advice has been given not to do dating with a stranger without adequate protection and supervision.  You could lose your life.  While very rare, some out there have significant mental problems.

Yes, European women should take care when dating odd Americans.  :ROFL:

Their customer support told me that contradictory to popular belief, there are many good men in Ukraine & most women there are not interested in foreigners or leaving the country and are very satisfied by the lives they lead. Sure life is more convenient & blissful to stay in one's own country with family, friends & relatives around. They said that only a minority among them really look for foreign husbands. But the ones who are looking really don't mind a change in scenario. Other wise why even bother to seek a foreign man, right?

Yes.

A body guard during dating a stranger. Yes I was told by their customer support about the possibility of men with mental issues visiting them. Hence the safety precaution. I know UADreams compulsorily arrange the first meeting of their clients at their branch offices, in the presence of a translator or branch manager. They act as the woman's body guard for the 1st hour during the first meet. This is a good safety measure for both individuals involved.

But the downside to this is in order for the 1st meet to ever happen it is mandatory that the male client must choose their ridiculously priced trip packages to meet the lady at their branch & only at their branch. No other public place. Also this agency will never reveal it's branches location address to you until you've paid for the trip package. Every service they provide will costs you 3 times the actual cost. You don't have the freedom to do things your own way. The translation charges are cut throat as well! They have 14 branches all over UKR. But not even one address is on the website. There is no name or photograph of the owner or the branches external view. Some of their previous clients who visited their multiple branches stated in their reviews that their offices are in very remote locations, had no billboard advertising saying 'UADreams'. But instead there was only an A2 size print out stuck on the front door glass that read something like 'free photo portfolio'. How credible of an agency is that?!

That is not something you "must" do, that is something you choose to do. They are free to choose their business model and construct their business in such a way that suits them. You are free to accept that and use them or shop elsewhere.

There is much reading for you here. There are over a decade of posts numbering half a million or so. This is a learning curve. This is an expensive endeavour.

Welcome to the site, by the way.  tiphat
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Online Guile

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Re: VK Ban for Ukrainians!?!
« Reply #83 on: April 07, 2019, 12:42:27 PM »
Pete how old are you?  all you seem to be worried about are the risks involved...are you even over 30?  If not I suggest to just go to Russia or Ukraine, teach English or volunteer there and live like a local. then you can date however you like.  This is what I did.

Offline Manny

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Re: VK Ban for Ukrainians!?!
« Reply #84 on: April 07, 2019, 12:48:21 PM »
I came across a couple of dating sites that are honest enough to say that their services cannot be offered for free in order to sustain the site.  They need someone to foot the cost of running the site.  So the ones who can pay the cost are targeted.  The women are not going to unless it is a site like Match.com where both sides have to pay.

Now here is a thing.

Sites aren't free to run (even this one), they must generate revenue and they'll not be doing that from the women.

That means the men must be monetised to make the site profitable. The men who *don't* get on the plane are the ones who pay the bills for the ones that do.

But there is another side to this: A lot of women, and my wife was among them, are *more* than happy to use a site where men must pay because it weeds out all the cheap and greedy ones who want everything for free (which weeds out in a stroke most undesirables). Communication is then in her native tongue as its translated. A layer of staff between women and their would-be suitors can further weed out oddballs and other undesirables. Misunderstandings are easily cleared up along the way. This means women dont spend all their free time for months on end writing pointless nonsense to Joe from Idaho who doesn't even have a passport and will never get on a plane. It means every now and again the staff get in touch and say "here is one with potential, you might want to engage with this one yourself". Agencies can be very time-efficient and useful for women.

I agree with Andrew, circumvent that chosen system and discover her on her personal social media platforms and that is cheap, greedy, stalky and will get you blocked by many in a heartbeat.

All that said, agencies use that system as a cover to scam blokes with translators too, so caveat emptor.

Some also use the excuse of the IMBRA law recently passed to support their rule of no direct communication between the two parties.

They may try, but that only applies to agencies based in the US (being the only ones subject to US law), is mostly ignored anyway and is a decade old.

Many of the ladies on that site say that they are happy to have a "body guard" to help them and protect them in their dating ventures.  Is this really true?

Having seen some communications first hand, I can see why some would.
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Offline Steveboy

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Re: VK Ban for Ukrainians!?!
« Reply #85 on: April 07, 2019, 01:55:31 PM »
Pete!

Here is some other good advice. do not waste your time learning the Ukrainian language, for what do you need to learn this for?


Most Ukrainians speak Russian anyways...better to learn Russian but again it's a TOUUUUGH language.

Yes.. BUT only if your actually planning to marry a Eastern European women and do the business of meeting and dating one..

Learning Russian or Ukrainian at this point is a waste of time and effort..

Its like I want to buy a Bentley in a few years.. so tomorrow Im going to go out and buy myself a Bentley key ring, leather jacket, join the Bentley club and so on..

And I don't even have my Bentley OR even enough cash to buy one.. easy logic really..
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Offline alwayspete

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Re: VK Ban for Ukrainians!?!
« Reply #86 on: April 07, 2019, 08:37:27 PM »
Pete!

Here is some other good advice. do not waste your time learning the Ukrainian language, for what do you need to learn this for?

After 12 months you would of given up completely disillusioned and all that time learning Ukrainian would of been a waste of time, your never going to need to speak it in your life..

It is better just spending some time for a few months to see if any Ukrainian women are interested in you. Forget about your UADreams experience , those women were not interested in you in any way other than financially..

Try with some REAL women first then take it from there..

I don't travel or learn languages to meet women. I do it because I enjoy it. But I do get your point though. It's one of my hobbies. Even though not fluent I do understand Spanish & French. I'm now learning Ukrainian & German.  I've left UADreams months ago. Didn't spend much time there either. If I can't find the woman on social media especially these days, I take it as a red flag. The women on UADreams none of them are on it. At least the ones I was interested in anyway. They bring up the silly excuse that the Russian social media VK is banned. But yet there are thousands of Ukrainians on VK. So clearly if there's a will there's a way! If the women are that patriotic there is FB,Twitter. Hence if they are really interested, granted they get to learn about the man for a while, they will always find ways for direct contact. That's just what I think. As always thank you Steve for your support & guidance! Much appreciated. You always get right to it.

Pete :")

Offline alwayspete

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Re: VK Ban for Ukrainians!?!
« Reply #87 on: April 07, 2019, 08:47:04 PM »
Pete!

Here is some other good advice. do not waste your time learning the Ukrainian language, for what do you need to learn this for?


Most Ukrainians speak Russian anyways...better to learn Russian but again it's a TOUUUUGH language.

I found there are similarities among Russian, Ukrainian, Belarusian. Personally I think Russian is harsh on the ears. I feel Ukrainian to be more melodious.

Offline alwayspete

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Re: VK Ban for Ukrainians!?!
« Reply #88 on: April 07, 2019, 09:11:07 PM »

That is not something you "must" do, that is something you choose to do. They are free to choose their business model and construct their business in such a way that suits them. You are free to accept that and use them or shop elsewhere.

Welcome to the site, by the way.  tiphat

Thanks for your welcome and input.

Sure they can choose their business model and construct their business in such a way that suits them. But that shouldn't turn to be an excuse to extort people. Making a profit is essential for the survival and progress of any business. Extortion is something else.

I'm not talking about myself. But some of the men have spend tons of money over there, for several years before even meeting up with the lady. Unwise move. I know. But when they finally decide to meet up with the lady, it will be a shock to them, when they get to know that the agency won't disclose their branch location address & won't allow you to meet the lady with whom you've been conversing with for many years until you pay for their ridiculously expensive trip packages. The men are trapped. They no longer have a choice to choose. They must in order to achieve any further progress in the relationship. If there ever will be a relationship in the 1st place.

Yes a lot of self education, patience & persistence required for this endeavour. I'm at the right place for it. Thanks again Manny!

Pete :")

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Re: VK Ban for Ukrainians!?!
« Reply #89 on: April 07, 2019, 09:42:26 PM »
Pete how old are you? if you don't wanna say give me decades or over/under 30.

Offline alwayspete

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Re: VK Ban for Ukrainians!?!
« Reply #90 on: April 07, 2019, 10:33:58 PM »
Pete how old are you?  all you seem to be worried about are the risks involved...are you even over 30?  If not I suggest to just go to Russia or Ukraine, teach English or volunteer there and live like a local. then you can date however you like.  This is what I did.

I'm old enough. I've travelled before. I prefer to travel solo. I'm not worried. There will be risks & challenges any ways. But I always go in with a bit of preparation. Currently I'm sorting a few things out, educating myself before making the trip. It won't happen soon. But it will & I'll be ready. Thanks for the advice. Yes I've looked into that. There is teaching English, proof reading, sales, customer support etc for people with good English skills. Now a days getting a steady English teaching job is difficult. You are offered the job for a couple of hours for 3 days in a week or so. The pay per hour is good. But still won't do. Rent in Ukraine is not cheap so this may just cover the rent. Does it help. Sure it does. Is that enough. Sure it's not. Thanks again.

Pete :")

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Re: VK Ban for Ukrainians!?!
« Reply #91 on: April 08, 2019, 01:51:39 AM »

I'm old enough. I've travelled before.

You are offered the job for a couple of hours for 3 days in a week or so. The pay per hour is good. But still won't do. Rent in Ukraine is not cheap so this may just cover the rent. Does it help. Sure it does. Is that enough. Sure it's not. Thanks again.

Pete :")

It's not about age but experience...with the type of questions you are asking it shows you haven't done it before.

Forget about teaching English in Ukraine. no money there. I mean go to Moscow.

The main factor is what age range of woman are you looking at.  Someone in their 20's is completely different than someone in their 40's. Aim for a 5-7 year gap if you are under 35.  If you are over than you got more leeway.

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Re: VK Ban for Ukrainians!?!
« Reply #92 on: April 08, 2019, 04:35:13 AM »

I'm old enough. I've travelled before.

You are offered the job for a couple of hours for 3 days in a week or so. The pay per hour is good. But still won't do. Rent in Ukraine is not cheap so this may just cover the rent. Does it help. Sure it does. Is that enough. Sure it's not. Thanks again.

Pete :")

It's not about age but experience...with the type of questions you are asking it shows you haven't done it before.

Forget about teaching English in Ukraine. no money there. I mean go to Moscow.

The main factor is what age range of woman are you looking at.  Someone in their 20's is completely different than someone in their 40's. Aim for a 5-7 year gap if you are under 35.  If you are over than you got more leeway.


Actually every thing comes down to your age today when pursuing a FSU women..

Lots has changed in the last 6/7 years when it comes to searching a women from say Russia.. I did offer $1000.00 here a few years ago as the wedding present to any guy who marries a girl under 30 and posts his pictures and story here.. no one ever got to get that.. to late now I need the money :)

It works like this now:

30-38 year old guys= very little chance , nearly zero as they will be looking for a girl 28-33 women this age simply are not interested any more, yes ok a few maybe , but very few AND your going to need to offer something good to make them want to leave their country, family and friends it will also need to be a BIG love! It is possible but very hard.

Best solution? Move to the girls country! Its a different case then  :thumbsup:


40-50 year old guys = Not to bad chance IF you are realistic in the age criteria of the women you seek, 45 and over searching a women 38-41 you should have no problem, though still not easy and lots of work!


50-60 year old guys = The ideal age to find a partner from any FSU country if you seek a women in a realistic age criteria and are not wasting time chasing school girls about

it's as easy as 1-2-3

Thats the best and most realistic dating advice you can get when it comes to age.. tiphat




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Offline msmoby

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Re: VK Ban for Ukrainians!?!
« Reply #93 on: April 08, 2019, 04:39:57 AM »
Jeez, Steveboy - another GREAT piece of advice

Listen to the guy who actually does this for a living ..

I have never claimed to be a Blue Beret

Spurious claims about 'seeing action' with the Blue Berets are debunked >here<

Here is my Russophobia/Kremlinphobia topic

Offline Olga_Mouse

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Re: VK Ban for Ukrainians!?!
« Reply #94 on: April 08, 2019, 05:24:02 AM »

Not stalking but investigating. There's a difference because the intentions are different.


 :thumbsup:
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Offline Olga_Mouse

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Re: VK Ban for Ukrainians!?!
« Reply #95 on: April 08, 2019, 05:25:15 AM »

Genuine women choose sites that moderate communication in order that they don't have to deal with an endless flood of dick pics from no hopers, granddads, chancers, perverts and other pond life.


Following your logic, if I am choosing free sites without pre-moderated communication, I am not genuine?  (:)
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Offline Olga_Mouse

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Re: VK Ban for Ukrainians!?!
« Reply #96 on: April 08, 2019, 05:29:06 AM »

Your point that must be highlighted is "websites which enable women to protect themselves can also be an ideal environment to milk hopeful guys"
This guaranteed protection claimed by the dating websites are plain scam.
Their men & women clients are adults who can protect themselves.
Their aim is to keep you on the website and mint money by making sure of no direct communication. I don't recommend such a website to anyone. Especially pay per letter, video chat services offered by such websites.


Exactly! If you can't protect yourself (both emotionally and financially), then you're not mature enough.

In that case any communication - no matter if real one, or virtual one; in your own country, or in another country - presents a danger for you.

Such people would better keep living in their glasshouses, without being exposed to the real world.
Leaving Russia is not an emigration, rather an evacuation.

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Re: VK Ban for Ukrainians!?!
« Reply #97 on: April 08, 2019, 07:11:18 AM »

Genuine women choose sites that moderate communication in order that they don't have to deal with an endless flood of dick pics from no hopers, granddads, chancers, perverts and other pond life.


Following your logic, if I am choosing free sites without pre-moderated communication, I am not genuine?  (:)

Nope, and you know it, your command of the English language is too good for you to have genuinely made that faulty connection.

You might be genuinely interested in meeting foreign guys and be happy to wade through the the grot and dick pics attendant with positing an attractive profile on a free site. Many women genuinely seeking a foreign bloke do not make that choice and so choose a site that mediates communication.

If I knew that you had used my information on a private site to track me down in ways not expected of users of the site I was on, I would think badly of you for doing it. Irrespective of the intent. In the end, you (Peter or Olga) can justify your stalking however you want but it is the perception of the target that matters. If I think you are being repugnant, stalky, intrusive, then I will reject you. Some might have lower standards, but if that's the case, why woukd they choose to use a site that places a premium upon privacy.

It ain't what you think that matters, but what your targets think.

Frankly, if you are going to stalk targets across the Internet then it seems sensible to never, ever, let on what you did because your target is unlikely to share your opinion about your stalking.
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

Offline msmoby

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Re: VK Ban for Ukrainians!?!
« Reply #98 on: April 08, 2019, 07:42:13 AM »
Andrewfi proves - once again - that he has one rule for himself and those rules do not apply to others ...


 


If I knew that you had used my information on a private site to track me down in ways not expected of users of the site I was on, I would think badly of you for doing it. Irrespective of the intent.

Given the utter twaddle you have posted re wives of members and members who left because of your VERY personal 'guesstimations' of their lives - when ALL they have done is question your often risible 'assertions'/ conclusions' - you'll 'forgive' the raucous sounds of laughter emanating from myself ..


When you come over all holier than thou - re what you deem 'private info '  - it is a sight to behold ..

Example - you got bent out of shape when photos you had uploaded to facebook went more even public than you intended

Time for not a little navel gazing




I have never claimed to be a Blue Beret

Spurious claims about 'seeing action' with the Blue Berets are debunked >here<

Here is my Russophobia/Kremlinphobia topic

Offline Contrarian

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Re: VK Ban for Ukrainians!?!
« Reply #99 on: April 08, 2019, 07:45:20 AM »

Genuine women choose sites that moderate communication in order that they don't have to deal with an endless flood of dick pics from no hopers, granddads, chancers, perverts and other pond life.


Following your logic, if I am choosing free sites without pre-moderated communication, I am not genuine?  (:)

Nope, and you know it, your command of the English language is too good for you to have genuinely made that faulty connection.

You might be genuinely interested in meeting foreign guys and be happy to wade through the the grot and dick pics attendant with positing an attractive profile on a free site. Many women genuinely seeking a foreign bloke do not make that choice and so choose a site that mediates communication.

If I knew that you had used my information on a private site to track me down in ways not expected of users of the site I was on, I would think badly of you for doing it. Irrespective of the intent. In the end, you (Peter or Olga) can justify your stalking however you want but it is the perception of the target that matters. If I think you are being repugnant, stalky, intrusive, then I will reject you. Some might have lower standards, but if that's the case, why woukd they choose to use a site that places a premium upon privacy.

It ain't what you think that matters, but what your targets think.

Frankly, if you are going to stalk targets across the Internet then it seems sensible to never, ever, let on what you did because your target is unlikely to share your opinion about your stalking.

Andrew your post shows that you always think with your head and rarely if ever with your heart.  :coffeeread: