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Author Topic: VK Ban for Ukrainians!?!  (Read 16464 times)

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Online andrewfi

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Re: VK Ban for Ukrainians!?!
« Reply #100 on: April 08, 2019, 07:49:01 AM »
Confederate, what you wrote makes almost no sense. Given that how one feels about something is absolutely an emotional response then how can what you wrote be true?

Thinking is hard, eh?

Moby, what are you going on about now?
Slow down, have a little think and then try using truth and facts to create a case. Really, it might help you.
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Offline Contrarian

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Re: VK Ban for Ukrainians!?!
« Reply #101 on: April 08, 2019, 08:15:48 AM »

This
what you wrote makes almost no sense. Given that how one feels about something is absolutely an emotional response then how can what you wrote be true?

Versus

Thinking is hard, eh?

You prove time and time again that it’s you who’s not capable of “thinking” with your heart.

This isn’t about me it’s about your technical response to Olga.

She made a thoughtful response, pragmatic and heartfelt.

You don’t wish to consider her opinion that there might be various exceptions to what you believe is ironclad.

You simply wish to win argument with her.

Opening your heart is hard, eh?

Offline Olga_Mouse

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Staking vs. due diligence
« Reply #102 on: April 08, 2019, 09:46:32 AM »
Nope, and you know it, your command of the English language is too good for you to have genuinely made that faulty connection.
Thank you for complimenting my English skills  tiphat  :knit:

You might be genuinely interested in meeting foreign guys and be happy to wade through the the grot and dick pics attendant with positing an attractive profile on a free site.
Many women genuinely seeking a foreign bloke do not make that choice and so choose a site that mediates communication.
Aha, so now "many"  :laugh: But not all  :laugh:  I can give you a few reasons why I am choosing free sites:
a) I do not like the idea of my "contact data" being sold ("purchase contact");
b) I do not like someone else to decide for me, whom shall I contact - and whom I shouldn't.
c) I am a grown up person, making my own decisions - and accepting responsibility for them. I want to find a man with similar mentality.
d) I do not want somebody "pre-moderating" the messages that I am receiving and sending, thus making (instead of me!) the decision what information I shall receive and give.

If I knew that you had used my information on a private site to track me down in ways not expected of users of the site I was on, I would think badly of you for doing it. Irrespective of the intent.
For me the intent matters.

In the end, you (Peter or Olga) can justify your stalking however you want but it is the perception of the target that matters. If I think you are being repugnant, stalky, intrusive, then I will reject you. Some might have lower standards, but if that's the case, why would they choose to use a site that places a premium upon privacy.
Aha, so now I am already stalking. Nice! An example:
- The guy writes on 3 dating sites that he's 50 y.o.;
- During one of the conversations (about parents) he says the birth year of his mother. Shall that digit be true, his mother would have given birth at the age of 50.
- I ask him about it. He answers that he was a late child, and that everyone thought his mother was his grandmother, bla-bla-bla.
- We speak about past jobs. He claims having worked for the company that "died" soon after the wall came down. I ask him how many years he has worked for this company; he said 6. It would mean, that he has started working there at the age of 16 - which is absolutely impossible.
- We briefly meet during one of my numerous trips to EU. Visually I would rate him between 55 and 60.
- I run one of his photos via Google search, and fall upon "stay friends" website - where his school years are noted.
- When I face him with that, he admits that he is 56.
So, Andrew, question: how do my actions qualify in your books? As stalking? or as due diligence?  ???

It ain't what you think that matters, but what your targets think.
The "target" (oh what a cold word!) should have thought better before lying. To me, at least  :chuckle:

Frankly, if you are going to stalk targets across the Internet then it seems sensible to never, ever, let on what you did because your target is unlikely to share your opinion about your stalking.
Well, the "target" in question obviously doesn't share my opinion about necessity of being sincere about the key aspects (age, aims, smoking \ non smoking, income level) from the very beginning  :biggrin:
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Offline Olga_Mouse

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Staking vs. due diligence (to Confederate)
« Reply #103 on: April 08, 2019, 09:54:23 AM »
You prove time and time again that it’s you who’s not capable of “thinking” with your heart.

This isn’t about me it’s about your technical response to Olga.

She made a thoughtful response, pragmatic and heartfelt.

You don’t wish to consider her opinion that there might be various exceptions to what you believe is ironclad.

You simply wish to win argument with her. Opening your heart is hard, eh?

Hi Confederate, first of all thank you  tiphat   for your support. I appreciate that  :thumbsup:

I do agree with you, that Andrew's reply was mainly about website policies, privacy, terms of use and all that bureaucratic crap. I do have a different point of view.

BUT I do not think that this thread (and forum as such) is about one person winning, and another losing. We are all different; we do have different points of view - based on our sex, age, cultural background and past experiences.

Exchanging our (yet so different!) points of view - is what this forum is about. We all win - because it gives us a chance to look at the situation from different angles.  Win - win !

Andrew's point of view IS already slowly changing (from "Genuine women choose sites that moderate communication" to "Many women genuinely seeking...") - so he is capable to critically analyze the information  :thumbsup:
Leaving Russia is not an emigration, rather an evacuation.

Offline Contrarian

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Re: VK Ban for Ukrainians!?!
« Reply #104 on: April 08, 2019, 10:15:19 AM »
You prove time and time again that it’s you who’s not capable of “thinking” with your heart.

This isn’t about me it’s about your technical response to Olga.

She made a thoughtful response, pragmatic and heartfelt.

You don’t wish to consider her opinion that there might be various exceptions to what you believe is ironclad.

You simply wish to win argument with her. Opening your heart is hard, eh?

Hi Confederate, first of all thank you  tiphat   for your support. I appreciate that  :thumbsup:

I do agree with you, that Andrew's reply was mainly about website policies, privacy, terms of use and all that bureaucratic crap. I do have a different point of view.

BUT I do not think that this thread (and forum as such) is about one person winning, and another losing. We are all different; we do have different points of view - based on our sex, age, cultural background and past experiences.

Exchanging our (yet so different!) points of view - is what this forum is about. We all win - because it gives us a chance to look at the situation from different angles.  Win - win !

Andrew's point of view IS already slowly changing (from "Genuine women choose sites that moderate communication" to "Many women genuinely seeking...") - so he is capable to critically analyze the information  :thumbsup:


You’re right, everyone can win. It’s refreshing to read your posts.  tiphat

In your detailed reply to Andrew above it became very clear what your thought process is and why you believe what you believe.

These discussions aren’t so much for me per se but for a young buck like “Lord of the Dance” who hasn’t yet made a trip to Ukraine or Russia.


Offline alwayspete

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Re: VK Ban for Ukrainians!?!
« Reply #105 on: April 08, 2019, 11:00:19 AM »
Pete how old are you? if you don't wanna say give me decades or over/under 30.

Over 30 Guile!

Pete :")

Offline Lord of the Dance

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Re: VK Ban for Ukrainians!?!
« Reply #106 on: April 08, 2019, 11:50:08 AM »
These discussions aren’t so much for me per se but for a young buck like “Lord of the Dance” who hasn’t yet made a trip to Ukraine or Russia.

Thanks for the tag Confederate. I'll read this thread later tonight. ~ Doug
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Online 2tallbill

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Staking vs. due diligence
« Reply #107 on: April 08, 2019, 12:27:18 PM »
Aha, so now I am already stalking. Nice! An example:

Men and women check each other out, it's especially common in the current
internet age.

I have three sisters two are married and one is not. My unmarried sister runs
a credit and background check on any guy she dates. If somebody wanted to
call that stalking she couldn't care less, she would prefer to know if the guy
is deserving enough to date her.

Look at this board we tell guys to google a woman's name and address or
even sections of her letters.

It's not stalking, it's sifting through your options. There are millions of guys
out there so you can't date each one of them to figure out if he is a good choice. 
You use whatever technological tools you can find to help you weed out or sift
out the lesser options so that you can spend your valuable time examining the
higher quality options.

Those methods make total sense, and are EXACTLY what I advise men to do.
Cast a wide net, sift through what you find, immediately dump anybody with
any character issues, dump anybody who is less than totally interested in you
lather, rinse and repeat until you find a keeper then get on a plane.

How would my advice be any different for a woman?

FSUW are not for entry level daters. FSUW don't do vague FSUW like a man of action so be a man of action  If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane. There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.
Get an apartment not a hotel. DON'T recycle girls

Offline Olga_Mouse

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Re: Staking vs. due diligence
« Reply #108 on: April 08, 2019, 12:33:57 PM »
My unmarried sister runs a credit and background check on any guy she dates. If somebody wanted to
call that stalking she couldn't care less, she would prefer to know if the guy is deserving enough to date her.

Thumbs up for your sis, Bill!  :thumbsup:
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Online AvHdB

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Re: VK Ban for Ukrainians!?!
« Reply #109 on: April 08, 2019, 12:44:17 PM »
Olga, there is no difference between men and women when checking the reality of the info, on say a dating site. In English it is often referred to as due diligence. The problem (stalking) comes when a person uses the information for either personal gain or to harass the other party. As far as I can see no one, including our hero Pete, has done this. Though there are some accusations too that present regarding three members.

It is a different matter if one snags images that are available on the internet (say FaceBook) and (mis)uses them. The standards are evolving but caution and courtesy should be the guiding principle.
“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

Offline Olga_Mouse

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Stalking vs. due diligence
« Reply #110 on: April 08, 2019, 01:16:26 PM »
    Olga, there is no difference between men and women when checking the reality of the info, on say a dating site. In English it is often referred to as due diligence.
    The problem (stalking) comes when a person uses the information for either personal gain or to harass the other party. As far as I can see no one, including our hero Pete, has done this. Though there are some accusations too that present regarding three members.
   It is a different matter if one snags images that are available on the internet (say FaceBook) and (mis)uses them. The standards are evolving but caution and courtesy should be the guiding principle.

Hi AvHdB,

I personally am not questioning the difference between staking and due diligence; but it seems that AndrewFI mixes the two different actions, with different intentions & and with different action vectors: one "inside" (self-protection), another "outside" (stalking).

Waiting for AndrewFI to post and tell us where (according to him) lies the border between these two actions  :popcorn:
Leaving Russia is not an emigration, rather an evacuation.

Offline dcguyusa

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Re: VK Ban for Ukrainians!?!
« Reply #111 on: April 08, 2019, 06:07:32 PM »

Yes, the IMBRA law was passed and applies to USA residents.  However, some dating agencies have tried to use it for other residents as well. For the most part, people in the USA consider it be more "red tape".

Online dating is becoming more common than local dating.  Yes, it should be easier to contact people from all over the world more easier now than 20 years ago.  But many here in this country do not date over the internet and I am sure many overseas will not do so as well.  Dating overseas carries the implication that you will have to sacrifice your life in your native land to change direction drastically.  The vast majority of the world will not do so (not counting the migrations at the southern US border and European migration from Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, etc.) even where romance is concerned.  Note that the women do not have any contact restrictions when dating local guys, so you see the inequality being applied here?

Regarding a "body guard" during dating a stranger.  Advice has been given not to do dating with a stranger without adequate protection and supervision.  You could lose your life.  While very rare, some out there have significant mental problems.

UADreams was among one of the few sites that I looked at over several years ago.  They allow you to write a free introductory letter to any profile.  I wrote a letter to a lady who worked at a fitness center.  She later wrote back saying that she got a new job at another city and was cancelling her contract with the dating site and wished me good luck.  I guess that is how the ball bounces.   :duh:

What did you mean by the phrase 'people in the USA consider it be more "red tape"'. I didn't understand.

I also tried the services of UADreams for a short period. To be honest, I had more communication with their customer service representative than the models there. Their customer support told me that contradictory to popular belief, there are many good men in Ukraine & most women there are not interested in foreigners or leaving the country and are very satisfied by the lives they lead. Sure life is more convenient & blissful to stay in one's own country with family, friends & relatives around. They said that only a minority among them really look for foreign husbands. But the ones who are looking really don't mind a change in scenario. Other wise why even bother to seek a foreign man, right?

A body guard during dating a stranger. Yes I was told by their customer support about the possibility of men with mental issues visiting them. Hence the safety precaution. I know UADreams compulsorily arrange the first meeting of their clients at their branch offices, in the presence of a translator or branch manager. They act as the woman's body guard for the 1st hour during the first meet. This is a good safety measure for both individuals involved.

But the downside to this is in order for the 1st meet to ever happen it is mandatory that the male client must choose their ridiculously priced trip packages to meet the lady at their branch & only at their branch. No other public place. Also this agency will never reveal it's branches location address to you until you've paid for the trip package. Every service they provide will costs you 3 times the actual cost. You don't have the freedom to do things your own way. The translation charges are cut throat as well! They have 14 branches all over UKR. But not even one address is on the website. There is no name or photograph of the owner or the branches external view. Some of their previous clients who visited their multiple branches stated in their reviews that their offices are in very remote locations, had no billboard advertising saying 'UADreams'. But instead there was only an A2 size print out stuck on the front door glass that read something like 'free photo portfolio'. How credible of an agency is that?!

At least the reply that you got from the lady at UADreams sounded authentic and not repetitive or duplicated. She could have been real! Did she say which city she moved to. They have branch offices in most states. All she had to do was transfer her profile. Maybe she lost interest in on-line dating. What was your overall impression of this agency in the end of it all? How long where you there for? I was there for a month and a half.

Pete :")

My reference to "red tape" is an analogy to another government regulation intruding into personal dating.  The IMBRA law was enacted due to a case in this country involving a US man who married a foreign lady and ended up murdering her.  It was meant to "expose" those with suspicious backgrounds so they would have a more harder time in bringing in someone from another country to abuse them.

Yes, the agency controls your entire dating experience with any of the lady profiles.  Similar to like having a matchmaker escort beside your entire visit with the lady.  And you have few options to date as you see fit.

The lady that I wrote to did not indicate where her new job was located.  I presume that it was not in one of UADreams satellite office locations.  I also found her profile on another dating site and that profile was also removed at the same time as the UADreams one.  I think she gave priority to her career than dating and decided to drop the latter.  I registered several years ago and my profile is still there (although not active).  I sometimes still get letters from profiles off and on since that time just like for other dating sites that I registered many years ago.  And of course, I receive spam dating emails from profiles at sites where I have not registered at all.  (:)
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Offline dcguyusa

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Re: VK Ban for Ukrainians!?!
« Reply #112 on: April 08, 2019, 06:27:39 PM »
Pete how old are you? if you don't wanna say give me decades or over/under 30.

Over 30 Guile!

Pete :")

Very few very young adults do international dating because they are just starting out in their career and they cannot afford to spend large sums of money dating UNLESS they were born with a "silver spoon" :money:  or they are raised in overseas locations. 
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Offline BillyB

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Re: Staking vs. due diligence
« Reply #113 on: April 08, 2019, 10:49:22 PM »

I remember one FSU women engaged to a man and she created a profile with another woman's photos and wrote to her fiancée from that profile. Her fiancee wanted to hook up with the girl. She called it off.

Some men do that too. Some think it's unethical but it's your life and responsibility to learning the person you're engaged to is loyal. Trust but verify.
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Online andrewfi

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Re: VK Ban for Ukrainians!?!
« Reply #114 on: April 08, 2019, 11:46:38 PM »
Olga, your English is clearly better than mine. I am unable to make more clear my point.

My apologies for my failure to communicate with the clarity you need. Due to my inability to communicate I am not going to waste your time by revisiting a point I am unable to express properly.
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Offline msmoby

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Re: VK Ban for Ukrainians!?!
« Reply #115 on: April 08, 2019, 11:55:23 PM »
Olga, your English is clearly better than mine. I am unable to make more clear my point.

My apologies for my failure to communicate with the clarity you need. Due to my inability to communicate I am not going to waste your time by revisiting a point I am unable to express properly.


Oh, come on andy, you can do better than that ..

You are getting a good kicking for posting  SO daft

Having Manny 'protect' you  failed ..
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Offline Olga_Mouse

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Olga, your English is clearly better than mine.
Andrew dear, both you and me know it can't possibly be true  :)

I am unable to make more clear my point.
Sure you are! You just don't want (for whatever reason) to tell us where do you see the line between due diligence and stalking  :duh:

My apologies for my failure to communicate with the clarity you need. Due to my inability to communicate I am not going to waste your time by revisiting a point I am unable to express properly.
You're not willing to waste YOUR time on discussing this topic, I guess. Well, so be it - we're all free to speak here... and free to remain silent as well  :coffeeread:
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Andrew dear, both you and I know it can't possibly be true  :)


fixed that...

Olga you are a pretty funny gal!  got that spunk (характер) that Russian women are known to have.  i like it hahaha

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Re: VK Ban for Ukrainians!?!
« Reply #118 on: April 09, 2019, 08:51:50 AM »
Hi Pete,

One can chuckle at the personalities as they interact, such is RUA.

Take the advice that fits and use it to your advantage. Begin to think of dates that you might be able to visit Russia, Ukraine and or Farawaystan. I certainly would formulate a plan B. Learn some basic Russian and study the culture and history of the target region.

Ask questions here and discard the popcorn munchers, inflexible opinions and those with an agenda.
“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

Online 2tallbill

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Re: VK Ban for Ukrainians!?!
« Reply #119 on: April 09, 2019, 02:24:29 PM »
The IMBRA law was enacted due to a case in this country involving
a US man who married a foreign lady and ended up murdering her. 

But when she served dinner the soup was cold!!
FSUW are not for entry level daters. FSUW don't do vague FSUW like a man of action so be a man of action  If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane. There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.
Get an apartment not a hotel. DON'T recycle girls

Offline yankee

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Re: VK Ban for Ukrainians!?!
« Reply #120 on: April 09, 2019, 03:13:37 PM »
My wife and I met on LL and totally ignored IMBRA
What is worse than not being able to get what you don't even want?

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Re: VK Ban for Ukrainians!?!
« Reply #121 on: April 09, 2019, 03:48:58 PM »
IMBRA should not be an issue. Assuming Pete is from New Zealand and plans to settle there with his partner.
“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

Offline dcguyusa

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Re: VK Ban for Ukrainians!?!
« Reply #122 on: April 09, 2019, 04:32:08 PM »
The IMBRA law was enacted due to a case in this country involving
a US man who married a foreign lady and ended up murdering her. 

But when she served dinner the soup was cold!!

I do not know the full details involving the murder case, but I believe the husband hired someone else to dispose of the foreign lady?
An uninformed opponent is a dangerous opponent.

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Offline dcguyusa

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Re: VK Ban for Ukrainians!?!
« Reply #123 on: April 09, 2019, 04:34:53 PM »
My wife and I met on LL and totally ignored IMBRA

As long as you have a "clean background" the law should be irrelevant to you.  From what I heard about the situation where the law originated from the guy did NOT have a "clean background".  So the law would have been an issue with "closet homicidal maniacs".   :duh:
An uninformed opponent is a dangerous opponent.

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Offline dcguyusa

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Re: VK Ban for Ukrainians!?!
« Reply #124 on: April 09, 2019, 04:38:04 PM »
IMBRA should not be an issue. Assuming Pete is from New Zealand and plans to settle there with his partner.

IMBRA is a US based regulation that applies to US based dating companies.  However, some foreign firms may try to "piggy back" and enforce some of these rules to their policies.  If putting more barriers up improve your "bottom line", then so much the better.   :nod:
An uninformed opponent is a dangerous opponent.

"Y'all be makin shit up" ~ Markeith Loyd


 

 

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