My Disastrous Experience with K1 Visa(s)

[justadude]

Although my story has been told and tossed about at length, I thought it might be nice to summarize it, in hopes that it can be of more help to others.

In early December of 2016 I met a girl in Kiev on Tinder. I flew there to meet her at the new year. We spent 10 days together. At the end of that time I proposed. She accepted and I obtained a K1 fiance visa for her. While the visa was in the works, I found out that she was a smoker, something she had withheld from me. I called off the engagement and canceled the visa. Nevertheless, I visited her in Kiev again during spring break 2017. At one point she was so stressed out about the situation that she became unwillingly institutionalized in a mental hospital. Last I heard she was doing OK.

During summer of 2017 I spent 7 weeks in Ukraine teaching English. At the end of the stay I met another Ukrainian girl on Tinder. I went back to see her around the new year. We took a trip to Lvov. I proposed to her and she said yes. I applied for and obtained a K1 fiance visa for her. She arrived in the US in November of 2018.

While I was waiting for her visa to be approved, I got involved with a local girl. I related this information to my fiance, along with other things that might make it difficult for us to succeed, not the least of which is that I am a vegetarian.

Nevertheless, she wanted to try. Soon after she arrived, I told her it was not going to work. She stayed for about 70 days of the 90 allowed. She left to return home. I gave her a bit over $5000 to help her get back on her feet. She had had a good career, which she abandoned to try to make a life with me. I have not heard from her in a while. The last I did she was depressed and had lost a lot of weight but seemed to making some positive strides (i.e., seeking help)

I made these big mistakes which cost two women dearly. Neither woman was ever trying to scam me. However, I will relate that some of the attitudes that I have heard typify Eastern European women about money (i.e., that a man should give it to a woman and that she should depend on him) do ring true with these experiences.

I think I could have made things work with the second girl, if I wasn't me. However, I am me. One of the things that make me who I am is worry about the future. In order to marry an immigrant and adjust her status to permanent resident (green card), one must file an affidavit of support, I864. This form obligates the sponsor (me in this case) to provide for the immigrant for life until one or more of the following 4 things occurs. The sponsor dies, the beneficiary dies, the beneficiary earns 40 quarters of social security benefits (works 10 years) or the beneficiary leaves the country and renounces residency. Notice that divorce is not on the list nor is there any expiration date. I was "freaked out" by the implications of this, and it played a major role in my decision.

I doubt that my story will directly relate to anyone else. It appears that I am so different from others that my experiences just don't translate. Nevertheless, some of the bits and pieces might be useful to someone.

[Guile]

So even if you divorce her you gotta pay support for the rest of her life?! God bless America!! hahahhaha

[SL0413]

I think I could have made things work with the second girl, if I wasn't me. However, I am me. One of the things that make me who I am is worry about the future. In order to marry an immigrant and adjust her status to permanent resident (green card), one must file an affidavit of support, I864. This form obligates the sponsor (me in this case) to provide for the immigrant for life until one or more of the following 4 things occurs. The sponsor dies, the beneficiary dies, the beneficiary earns 40 quarters of social security benefits (works 10 years) or the beneficiary leaves the country and renounces residency. Notice that divorce is not on the list nor is there any expiration date. I was "freaked out" by the implications of this, and it played a major role in my decision.

True, but not quite true.  I-864 creates a contract between the petitioner and the US government that the petitioner will support the person applying for permanent residency.  If the US government approves the application and allows the beneficiary to become a US citizen partially based on the I-864 form, then the petitioner is obligated to provide support equivalent to 125% of the poverty level.  If the beneficiary becomes a public charge, requiring Federal/State/Local aid, then those agencies can sue the I-864 applicant for the costs incurred.  The I-864 contract terminates if and when the beneficiary or applicant dies, the beneficiary looses permanent resident status and has departed the US, the beneficiary is subject for removal, the beneficiary has worked for 40 quarters, or the beneficiary becomes a US citizen (can take the citizenship test 5 years after gaining permanent resident status).

Note that after a marriage and divorce, if the wife attains alimony, then the public charge issue does not come into effect if the alimony amount is equal to or greater than 125% of the poverty level - currently $15,613 per year.  $1,302 per month.

[yankee]

Although my story has been told and tossed about at length, I thought it might be nice to summarize it, in hopes that it can be of more help to others.

In early December of 2016 I met a girl in Kiev on Tinder. I flew there to meet her at the new year. We spent 10 days together. At the end of that time I proposed. She accepted and I obtained a K1 fiance visa for her. While the visa was in the works, I found out that she was a smoker, something she had withheld from me. I called off the engagement and canceled the visa. Nevertheless, I visited her in Kiev again during spring break 2017. At one point she was so stressed out about the situation that she became unwillingly institutionalized in a mental hospital. Last I heard she was doing OK.

During summer of 2017 I spent 7 weeks in Ukraine teaching English. At the end of the stay I met another Ukrainian girl on Tinder. I went back to see her around the new year. We took a trip to Lvov. I proposed to her and she said yes. I applied for and obtained a K1 fiance visa for her. She arrived in the US in November of 2018.

While I was waiting for her visa to be approved, I got involved with a local girl. I related this information to my fiance, along with other things that might make it difficult for us to succeed, not the least of which is that I am a vegetarian.

Nevertheless, she wanted to try. Soon after she arrived, I told her it was not going to work. She stayed for about 70 days of the 90 allowed. She left to return home. I gave her a bit over $5000 to help her get back on her feet. She had had a good career, which she abandoned to try to make a life with me. I have not heard from her in a while. The last I did she was depressed and had lost a lot of weight but seemed to making some positive strides (i.e., seeking help)

I made these big mistakes which cost two women dearly. Neither woman was ever trying to scam me. However, I will relate that some of the attitudes that I have heard typify Eastern European women about money (i.e., that a man should give it to a woman and that she should depend on him) do ring true with these experiences.

I think I could have made things work with the second girl, if I wasn't me. However, I am me. One of the things that make me who I am is worry about the future. In order to marry an immigrant and adjust her status to permanent resident (green card), one must file an affidavit of support, I864. This form obligates the sponsor (me in this case) to provide for the immigrant for life until one or more of the following 4 things occurs. The sponsor dies, the beneficiary dies, the beneficiary earns 40 quarters of social security benefits (works 10 years) or the beneficiary leaves the country and renounces residency. Notice that divorce is not on the list nor is there any expiration date. I was "freaked out" by the implications of this, and it played a major role in my decision.

I doubt that my story will directly relate to anyone else. It appears that I am so different from others that my experiences just don't translate. Nevertheless, some of the bits and pieces might be useful to someone.

If she becomes a US citizen also.

[Omega1982]

This is a tough pill for me to swallow.  Forty quarters might take more than ten years if the woman is between jobs or simply lazy. 

Can our friends from Britain and Europe tell us how this works over there? 

If we have any Canadian or Australian members it would also be interesting to read. 

It's not a matter of justadude worrying too much, this can derail his retirement. 

[Omega1982]

Basically this law, plus the fake domestic abuse charges, the possibility of a prenup not holding up, and alimony really make this venture quite difficult for Americans.   

This is a topic I've been interested in for a long time.  It seems that if the man has professional skills that are transferrable, or works for an international organization which allows a relocation, or is retired and can move to Russia this might be a better option.  If things don't work out or the man wants to come back he can always come back. 

I have a friend of the family which lives six months in Spain and life is much less stressful and more entertaining than here in America.  I personally love Europe and Russia. 

Can anyone familiar with the topic and or law, tell us if it would be beneficial for the man to move to Russia if it were possible? 

Spasiba Bolshoi. 

[andrewfi]

How many of the women that an American might target as a bride would marry that guy if he was in Ukraine? Let us exclude Russia at this time because it is clear that this market is effectively dried up for all except those with the most attractive packages. The attractive package almost certainly includes moving to the Home of the Brave.

Ukraine still seems to be somewhat open, for the same reason that Russia was a decade and a half ago.

You're back to the 'if you can't do it over here then you sure as sh!t won't do it over there' thing.

So, there's little to no benefit to living over in Ukraine to be with your little love bunny because that just makes your offer less attractive. As women were wont to say a few years ago (and probably still do say today): I can marry a poor man any time I want, why would I choose one I can't even speak to?

[redroo]

OK, the Australian situation is as follows:
 
A foreign wife can arrive on a 9 month Fiance Visa. If the marriage goes ahead then she is a Temporary Resident for 2 years, and NOT eligible for any Government Assistance. So you must have specific private health insurance, pay any education expenses at the International Student rate etc. She will get free english lessons, but that's about all she will get free. You must support her completely at no expense to the government. She will not be eligible for Unemployment benefits if she can not find a job.

After 2 years Temporary Residency, you can apply for Permanent Residency, and when granted your partner then is treated equally as an Australian Citizen. If you break up during this period she can apply to stay in Australia without your "sponsorship". During this time you can come and go from Australia as you please, ie; multi-entry visa.

After 5 years residency (with the last 2 mostly "in-country"), and english competency, she can apply to become a citizen

Divorce is "no fault", you must ONLY prove 12 months physical separation.
You can make a Financial Agreement, and Parenting Plan, BEFORE your divorce, or wait for the Family Court to enforce one/both.

Under Australian law there is no difference between a "lawful" marriage and a "common law" marriage (ie: living together as partners). If you divorce a "lawful" wife, or leave a "common law" wife (live-in girlfriend for more than 12 months), they are eligible to claim up to 1/2 the assets of the marriage if you do not have children together. YES, up to 1/2. If you do not make a personal agreement between you both with separate lawyers, then the Family Court will decide for you.

If you have children, then it can be more in terms of division of assets, and you will be paying a Family Court decided amount of monthly Child Support until your children turn 18yrs.

Prenups, or Financial Agreements, do exist....BUT..... the Family Court will decide if they were "fair" and/or obtained under duress. As an example, there was a recent case where an agreement was overturned when the ex-wife claimed duress and the court agreed. The claim was she was in Australia, the wedding was days away, her family were in transit for the event, and she was presented with a "take it or leave it" document and told to sign or the wedding was off. He was a Millionaire and was trying to give her nothing.
There are examples of agreements being upheld where the both partners had their OWN lawyers, the agreements were deemed "fair" (ie a sliding financial agreement based on years together), and the woman had signed the translated document in her own language as well as english. It is possible to protect your previously gained assets as long as you go about it openly, but anything gained from your time together will be split.

You have kids together......all bets are off.

If you refuse to pay your monthly CS (or fall behind and your ex-partner makes a claim to the relevant agency), then you can be refused exit from Australia. 100s of (mainly) men are being turned back at the Airport as they attempt to go on holidays or business until they clear the arrears.

Forgot one thing....any child with ONE Australian citizen parent, born no matter where in the world, can claim Australian Citizenship

[yankee]

This is a tough pill for me to swallow.  Forty quarters might take more than ten years if the woman is between jobs or simply lazy. 

Can our friends from Britain and Europe tell us how this works over there? 

If we have any Canadian or Australian members it would also be interesting to read. 

It's not a matter of justadude worrying too much, this can derail his retirement.

My wife had chosen to be a dental assistant (hard to get a job as a college professor).   No one wants to pay for health insurance so part time is the best you can get.  So, yes, it will take more than 10 years to get 40 quarters. My wife, on average, worked for 4 dental surgeons at a time (all part time).  Most of the guys on this site do not work four different jobs at one time, so who is lazy?

[dcguyusa]

I have had experience with the Affidavit of Support filing (I-864) with USCIS for a foreign spouse and other relatives. The main premise of this form is to prevent the alien from becoming a public charge with the US Government (welfare, SSI, financial assistance).  It is assumed that the US spouse/sponsor will bear the burden of the cost of living of the foreign spouse/relative during their stay here.  I am not sure if the obligation is in force until the death of either party if the beneficiary status never changes (remains a permanent resident until death).  I have alien relatives who live here and receive SSI payments and subsidized housing and the sponsor is no longer obligated to provide support after they entered the country many years ago.  My former foreign spouse has worked for over 10 years and also was naturalized, so I have no financial ties with the former spouse.  She did not wish to go through the fiancée visa (K1) process (90 day of seeing if the marriage would happen or not).  She was going to quit her job and returning back to her country meant no job was waiting if you returned.  I understood the sacrifice that foreign people make when leaving their native land.  The final court decree stated no financial support from either party (because the marriage period did not exceed ten years) and both parties requested none.  Since we both are citizens, the issue with past USCIS filings no longer applies.

So if I was able to do it over again, would I? Probably yes.  And change the course of history.   

P.S.  A smoker is a major no-no for me.  My granduncle smoked cigars and my father smoked cigarettes.  Luckily, my father quit on his own before I reached my teen years.  I used to ride cross country buses with smokers on board.  I would vomit after inhaling the second hand smoke.   

[dcguyusa]

So even if you divorce her you gotta pay support for the rest of her life?! God bless America!! hahahhaha

For my situation, 100% absolutely false.

[BillyB]

I think I could have made things work with the second girl, if I wasn't me. However, I am me. One of the things that make me who I am is worry about the future. In order to marry an immigrant and adjust her status to permanent resident (green card), one must file an affidavit of support, I864. This form obligates the sponsor (me in this case) to provide for the immigrant for life until one or more of the following 4 things occurs. The sponsor dies, the beneficiary dies, the beneficiary earns 40 quarters of social security benefits (works 10 years) or the beneficiary leaves the country and renounces residency. Notice that divorce is not on the list nor is there any expiration date. I was "freaked out" by the implications of this, and it played a major role in my decision.

Risk vs reward. Find a quality woman and the reward is greater than any risk.

[andrewfi]

Risk vs reward. Find a quality woman and the reward is greater than any risk.

But first, put your own house in order! If one is not ready for a relationship then it is unlikely that a successful outcome to any search or courtship will be possible.

As somebody, unknown to me, but much wiser than I said - in order to be loved, first you must love yourself.

[BillyB]

But first, put your own house in order! If one is not ready for a relationship then it is unlikely that a successful outcome to any search or courtship will be possible.

That is true. Women will evaluate the risk vs reward on men too. The more problems a guy has, he himself becomes a risk instead of reward.

[Manny]

Under Australian law there is no difference between a "lawful" marriage and a "common law" marriage (ie: living together as partners). If you divorce a "lawful" wife, or leave a "common law" wife (live-in girlfriend for more than 12 months), they are eligible to claim up to 1/2 the assets of the marriage if you do not have children together. YES, up to 1/2.

How odd. A live in girlfriend gets half your stuff after a year in Oz? 

[msmoby]

How odd. A live in girlfriend gets half your stuff after a year in Oz? 

Why is it odd ?

Just as well you aren't in Australia, eh ?

[2tallbill]

Although my story has been told and tossed about at length, I thought it might be nice to summarize it, in hopes that it can be of more help to others.

In early December of 2016 I met a girl in Kiev on Tinder. I flew there to meet her at the new year. We spent 10 days together. At the end of that time I proposed. She accepted and I obtained a K1 fiance visa for her. While the visa was in the works, I found out that she was a smoker, something she had withheld from me. I called off the engagement and canceled the visa. Nevertheless, I visited her in Kiev again during spring break 2017. At one point she was so stressed out about the situation that she became unwillingly institutionalized in a mental hospital. Last I heard she was doing OK.

During summer of 2017 I spent 7 weeks in Ukraine teaching English. At the end of the stay I met another Ukrainian girl on Tinder. I went back to see her around the new year. We took a trip to Lvov. I proposed to her and she said yes. I applied for and obtained a K1 fiance visa for her. She arrived in the US in November of 2018.

While I was waiting for her visa to be approved, I got involved with a local girl. I related this information to my fiance, along with other things that might make it difficult for us to succeed, not the least of which is that I am a vegetarian.

I doubt that my story will directly relate to anyone else. It appears that I am so different from others that my experiences just don't translate. Nevertheless, some of the bits and pieces might be useful to someone.

NOTE 1: I only know what you've written here. I don't know you so I am making
my observations ONLY on what you've provided here in this thread.

NOTE 2: A little tough love which I post not to offend anyone but to point out
the problems which seem obvious to me.

NOTE 3: Skip over this if you don't handle the tough love part very well. I am
not here to offend you, I'm here so that the newbies can learn from your
experiences. You said that posted this for that purpose.

Your experiences do translate. People do this in the MOB world. You (and they)
get engaged to women that they barely know and to women you (and they) barely
care about. How could you get engaged to a woman who didn't even know that
you are a vegetarian?

How could you care about an FSU woman and then get involved with a local?
Answer? You can't, because if you cared for the FSU woman you were engaged
to you would have broken it off before getting involved with the local.

There is no way with 10 days boots on the ground (or under her bed) can you
know a woman enough to get engaged and start a K-1.

Americans do these K-1's too soon because we are so far away and have so little
vacation time, but you have to do your due diligence before you start your paperwork
for a K-1. A K-1 is intended to allow you time to plan for a wedding. It's not designed
as a test drive. You are supposed to have all your test driving and due diligence done
before starting the K-1.

You didn't know a girl smoked before you started K-1 paperwork? How is that possible?

Ask Manny how many trips he made to see his wife before getting engaged or starting
paperwork. Ask Yankee and others.

I visited Angel Eyes 4 times, on 4 separate trips. Then she came to see me twice in
the USA once for 3-4 weeks and the second time for months, before we got married.
I totally rushed things compared to others here.

What you've done was totally irresponsible and hopefully you and the newbies reading
this are learning from it.

BEFORE getting engaged
1. You need to be able to write down 100 things that will drive your girl nuts. 
If you can only list 95 things then you haven't looked deeply enough and
have NO reason to start K-1 paperwork since you are still just getting to
know her.

2. Can you list 20 things that she will put in the cupboards that you would
have put into the refrigerator? No? then you haven't looked deeply enough
and have NO reason to start K-1 paperwork since you are still just getting to
know her. 

3. Do you know how to find out what's wrong when she bursts into tears?
If she hasn't burst into tears in front of you then you don't even remotely
know this girl.

4. Have you at least 100 conversations about children, child discipline, 
sex after a child is born, and what to do if they come home with a note
from the teacher? If you say no, then you haven't done your due diligence.

5. How are things handled when the ex shows up? What happens when an
ex wants to pick a fight? These are due diligence conversations that you've
worked out already because you had a thousand conversations.

NOTE: None of the stuff below has to do with the OP, it's just semi related.

It's your job to get to know a woman before you get engaged. I've seen
many men make several trips, get married and then they are surprised
when they have a HUGE fight over disciplining an existing child.

How is it possible that they didn't completely discuss that? and figure out
every persons responsibilities and details? MANY people that I know from
THIS forum had fights over exactly that.

One guy who was very popular here had a 16 year old step son, started acting
up, wrecked a car, didn't think that his Step Dad had any authority over him
and the new wife agreed and the Step son ran all over him, and they hadn't
discussed this and worked out the details before they got married.

NOW they are divorced.

Don't play Russian roulette!! Don't leave all this crap to chance. You can know
a person and still have everything go pear-shaped. Why would you intentionally
increase the chances?

That's my two kopecks,

Bill

[2tallbill]

But first, put your own house in order!

Should be added to the Tablets of Stone

[yankee]

Bill, good words!

[Guile]

reality is justdude just wanted some tail or has commitment issues...he did this with another FSU girl too, she ended up in a mental hospital. (no joke, read it).

[patagonie]

Basically this law, plus the fake domestic abuse charges, the possibility of a prenup not holding up, and alimony really make this venture quite difficult for Americans.   

This is a topic I've been interested in for a long time.  It seems that if the man has professional skills that are transferrable, or works for an international organization which allows a relocation, or is retired and can move to Russia this might be a better option.  If things don't work out or the man wants to come back he can always come back. 

I have a friend of the family which lives six months in Spain and life is much less stressful and more entertaining than here in America.  I personally love Europe and Russia. 

Can anyone familiar with the topic and or law, tell us if it would be beneficial for the man to move to Russia if it were possible? 

Spasiba Bolshoi.

I would have in the future a half time life in FSU.
That's my project.
So you can assess the lady on the long term to know if it's working and don't need to get her back with all the problem of visas, documents and the risk of a divorce. 

[rosco]

How odd. A live in girlfriend gets half your stuff after a year in Oz? 

Why is it odd ?

Just as well you aren't in Australia, eh ?

Moby is either trolling here or his socialist, sorry conservative ideals can't contain themselves.

I'll play along. Imagine I've started my own business, worked hard, accumulated a nice portfolio over 15/20 years and then meet a lady and fall in love. Said girlfriend moves in with you and it doesn't work out a year down the road - as many relationships don't but particularly girlfriends (hint* not a wife because she wasn't the one to marry).

The relationship ends and she then gets half of your estate/life's blood, sweat and tears. Now lets go back to you, are you

A) Trolling  or

B) A communist/socialist.

Seriously?

 

[Contrarian]

How odd. A live in girlfriend gets half your stuff after a year in Oz? 

Why is it odd ?

Just as well you aren't in Australia, eh ?

Moby is either trolling here or his socialist, sorry conservative ideals can't contain themselves.

I'll play along. Imagine I've started my own business, worked hard, accumulated a nice portfolio over 15/20 years and then meet a lady and fall in love. Said girlfriend moves in with you and it doesn't work out a year down the road - as many relationships don't but particularly girlfriends (hint* not a wife because she wasn't the one to marry).

The relationship ends and she then gets half of your estate/life's blood, sweat and tears. Now lets go back to you, are you

A) Trolling  or

B) A communist/socialist.

Seriously?

Moby? B.

[andrewfi]

Neither A nor B applies here. Moby is just trolling, he is bored, lonely, got nothing better to do, so you get to be his distraction.

[redroo]

Guys (and ladies),

I did say......"UP to 50%" that a live in girlfriend could claim, but it is not set in stone or legislated. After 12 months living together Australian Family Law considers you a "common-law" marriage, no different to a "legal" marriage, and under Australia's "no fault" family laws the default starting point is 50/50 for all assets held by the couple. That includes not just your business, but also your physical assets and Superannuation (401K for our US friends)

Even if you had NO prenuptial/financial agreement, it is HIGHLY unlikely the Judge in Australian Family Court would give a 12 month live-in girlfriend 1/2 your business and Superannuation, BUT she will get something..... and definitely more than you want, if you go to Court!

A lot depends on what the Judge decides........
1: She has "given up" to be with you.....ie: a foreign girl who left her family, friends, culture, flat, car, job etc
    for you; and wants to go home. ie: are you giving her enough to restart her life.
2: What did she contribute to your (the families) assets or increase in assets during your co-habitation?, ie:
    did she help in the families business directly. Was she paid for her work? Did she have an outside job? (Do
    not count on her having an "outside" job of little monetary value reducing the idea of 50/50 while you were
    together)
3: How long you have co-habitated? (possibly along the lines of 1yr-20%, 2yrs-30%, 3yrs-40%, 4yrs+ 50%)
4: If you had a business, then how much did the business value, or income, increase while you were together.
5: Was there an agreement that she would be the "House Wife/Manager" and not work outside the home?.
    Her "house work" and "mothering" has $ value.
6: were there any claims of abuse, AVO's or coercion?
7: did you attempt to HIDE any assets or income from her? This is where the 50% Plus comes in....and
    possibly jail time if you continue to hide assets and income.

HER lawyer will start by asking for 1/2, and work from there.

Much better to make a quick agreement together before getting lawyers involved in a Family Court battle. You might get a soft c..k Judge full of love and sympathy, and wrong ideas about men "importing" brides as well!
If you do make a financial agreement when you separate, then make sure she has her own lawyer (not yours or the same practice) and then get that agreement registered by the Family Court. You can do this before you divorce.

My own agreement was actually sent back by the Family Court to my ex, to give her a second bite of the cherry (since I had negotiated less than 50%). We got her videoed agreeing to the document a second time, that she thought it was fair, and that she understood it in both english and russian (I had made sure the agreement was in both languages). On the second submission to Family Court it was accepted. We also had made a joint parenting plan, and child support agreement, that were registered at the same time prior to divorce. It was fairly friendly and easy to do in my case (but I appreciate that is not always possible).....and I saved making lawyers rich, and the real risk of losing more in court.

As I also pointed out, if you have a kid/s together (or you adopted/agreed to raise hers) then the Family Court can decide up from 50% of assets northwards. Child Support is at legislated amounts if you battle and have to let the court decide. I directly pay my ex on a fortnightly basis, without Government Agency interference.

Men in Australia who marry, or cohabitate, (anyone, not just a foreign girl) without first making a "fair" financial assessment and agreement are playing Russian Roulette in my experienced opinion (pun intended). 

I fully intend to live outside Australia (while partnered) from now on.