The great myth about the alleged small size of Russia's GDP

[Power Vertical]

The size of Russia's economy is the biggest propaganda myth in the west today. And even many Russians believe the nonsense. Russia is not a dollar bloc economy. So no. Measuring with nominal dollar GDP is not going to work. You have to use PPP.

In PPP terms, Russia comes in as the 6th biggest economy in the world. Around 4 trillion. Now to back check this number, we can look at other hard data. Like oil consumption.

Russia consumes twice as much oil as Texas & California combined.Russia consumes 3.3 million barrels of oil per day. Texas consumes 1 million and California consumes 650,000. (Yet we hear with regularity that Russia's GDP is the size of Texas.)

Number of billionaires. Russia has the 6th most billionaires.

Foreign exchange reserves. Russia has the 5th most foreign exchange reserves in the world.

Gold reserves. Russia has the 5th most gold reserves in the world.


So. Do you still believe that Russia has the GDP of Texas or Italy ?

[Power Vertical]

NUMBER OF BILLIONARES
Russia is 6th https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_the_number_of_billionaires

AMOUNT OF FOREIGN EXCHANGE RESERVES
Russia is 6th https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_foreign-exchange_reserves

OIL CONSUMPTION BY COUNTRY
Russia is 6th https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_consumption

GOLD RESERVES
Russia is 5th https://www.google.ca/search?q=gold+reserves+by+country+2018&ie=&oe=

[andrewfi]

I think that here you are preaching to the choir. I doubt that even Russophobes reading this here would disagree with the point you are making.

Is there a point that you are trying to make?

[Power Vertical]

I think that here you are preaching to the choir. I doubt that even Russophobes reading this here would disagree with the point you are making.

Is there a point that you are trying to make?

Yeah. There is a point that Im trying to make. Most people who don't hate Russia, don't know the data and are terrible at arguing against the propaganda about the Russian economy.

This isn't hard. The data is all on Wikipedia. Yet we never see it on Twitter, the forums, Youtube or anywhere. The utter bullshit still goes unchalleged. A day hardly goes by where i dont hear that Russia has the same size economy as Italy or Texas.

[BillyB]

Power Vertical, have you been to Russia? If so, where?

[Wiz]

Power Vertical, have you been to Russia? If so, where?

Just signed up. Im a eastern Europe/Russia watcher from canada

  

[Power Vertical]

Power Vertical, have you been to Russia? If so, where?

Yankee no. Close but not yet. Romania , Slovakia and Poland is the closest I've been. Also been to Serbia Bosnia ect.

Now tell me how this is relevent..

[Power Vertical]

Power Vertical, have you been to Russia? If so, where?

Just signed up. Im a eastern Europe/Russia watcher from canada

  

Ah a Brit. Britain. The fifth biggest economy in the world.     

As they say Russia is a gas station pretending to be a country. Britain is a hedge fund pretending to be a country. 

[SL0413]

So. Do you still believe that Russia has the GDP of Texas or Italy ?

Never even considered it.  I normally go around wondering about the GDP of Rwanda, the impact of the monarch butterfly migration patterns on soy bean crop fertilization, and the global market price, demand and consumption of clover honey.

[BillyB]

Power Vertical, have you been to Russia? If so, where?

Yankee no. Close but not yet. Romania , Slovakia and Poland is the closest I've been. Also been to Serbia Bosnia ect.

Now tell me how this is relevent..

Visit Moscow and St. Petersburg and then visit everywhere else in Russia. It's like night and day. All those billionaires and wealth are in two spots. Your impression Russia is rich and the people you talk to impressions are they're not rich are both right and both wrong.

[rosco]

Power Vertical, have you been to Russia? If so, where?

Yankee no. Close but not yet. Romania , Slovakia and Poland is the closest I've been. Also been to Serbia Bosnia ect.

Now tell me how this is relevent..

Visit Moscow and St. Petersburg and then visit everywhere else in Russia. It's like night and day. All those billionaires and wealth are in two spots. Your impression Russia is rich and the people you talk to impressions are they're not rich are both right and both wrong.

That’s wasn’t his point though Billy. It would be like walking through downtown New York then visiting one of the many shit hole towns and cities in the US. GDP OR PPP wouldn’t change.

[BillyB]

Power Vertical, have you been to Russia? If so, where?

Yankee no. Close but not yet. Romania , Slovakia and Poland is the closest I've been. Also been to Serbia Bosnia ect.

Now tell me how this is relevent..

Visit Moscow and St. Petersburg and then visit everywhere else in Russia. It's like night and day. All those billionaires and wealth are in two spots. Your impression Russia is rich and the people you talk to impressions are they're not rich are both right and both wrong.

That’s wasn’t his point though Billy. It would be like walking through downtown New York then visiting one of the many shit hole towns and cities in the US. GDP OR PPP wouldn’t change.

Well then we might as well brag how successful china is with their huge economy, GDP and amount of billionaires they have. I doubt most people would consider China a success since MOST people living there aren't successful. Shit holes are in every country. In some countries, it's rare. In others, it's the norm.

The best way to judge success of a nation is watching people vote with their feet. For example. How many Syrians chose to flee to Italy compared to Syrians fleeing to Russia? When people have choices, observe where they prefer to go because they do have an idea on which countries are successful and which are not. The amount of fossil fuels and billionaires living in a country doesn't factor into their decision.

[rosco]

Power Vertical, have you been to Russia? If so, where?

Yankee no. Close but not yet. Romania , Slovakia and Poland is the closest I've been. Also been to Serbia Bosnia ect.

Now tell me how this is relevent..

Visit Moscow and St. Petersburg and then visit everywhere else in Russia. It's like night and day. All those billionaires and wealth are in two spots. Your impression Russia is rich and the people you talk to impressions are they're not rich are both right and both wrong.

That’s wasn’t his point though Billy. It would be like walking through downtown New York then visiting one of the many shit hole towns and cities in the US. GDP OR PPP wouldn’t change.

Well then we might as well brag how successful china is with their huge economy, GDP and amount of billionaires they have. I doubt most people would consider China a success since MOST people living there aren't successful. Shit holes are in every country. In some countries, it's rare. In others, it's the norm.

The best way to judge success of a nation is watching people vote with their feet. For example. How many Syrians chose to flee to Italy compared to Syrians fleeing to Russia? When people have choices, observe where they prefer to go because they do have an idea on which countries are successful and which are not. The amount of fossil fuels and billionaires living in a country doesn't factor into their decision.

I don’t think he was even trying to brag, he was pointing out that it’s in better shape than the west gives it credit for.

The Syrian argument is just stupid. They flee to Italy so they can make a relatively easy journey to other European countries who throw money at economic migrants, I mean refugees. Russia welcomes them too but they’d have to work hard for basic conditions. The British government openly posts online how much they’ll pay failed asylum seekers, why would you go to Russia if you’re on the take?

Nothing to do with gdp.

[SL0413]

The Syrian argument is just stupid. They flee to Italy so they can make a relatively easy journey to other European countries who throw money at economic migrants, I mean refugees. Russia welcomes them too but they’d have to work hard for basic conditions. The British government openly posts online how much they’ll pay failed asylum seekers, why would you go to Russia if you’re on the take?

Nothing to do with gdp.

Sorry, no.

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/russia-refuses-give-refugee-status-syrians-180116095003651.html

https://www.voanews.com/a/russia-an-unwelcoming-place-for-syrian-refugees/3569671.html

[dcguyusa]

I think that most refugees go to a particular area because either the route is the most convenient or there are "snake heads" that provide the transportation service to move them to another area, regardless of the economic situation of the other area.  As long as the new area is "safer" than the departing area, then you take your chances.  As for Russia welcoming Syrian refugees, what about the Syrian Civil War?  Why would Russia accept "enemies" of Assad to their country?  Going there could mean getting sent back home and then get "eliminated".   

[yankee]

The Syrian argument is just stupid. They flee to Italy so they can make a relatively easy journey to other European countries who throw money at economic migrants, I mean refugees. Russia welcomes them too but they’d have to work hard for basic conditions. The British government openly posts online how much they’ll pay failed asylum seekers, why would you go to Russia if you’re on the take?

Nothing to do with gdp.

Sorry, no.

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/russia-refuses-give-refugee-status-syrians-180116095003651.html

https://www.voanews.com/a/russia-an-unwelcoming-place-for-syrian-refugees/3569671.html

I am sorry but what is the fault with Russia's reasons?

[Power Vertical]

Power Vertical, have you been to Russia? If so, where?

Yankee no. Close but not yet. Romania , Slovakia and Poland is the closest I've been. Also been to Serbia Bosnia ect.

Now tell me how this is relevent..

Visit Moscow and St. Petersburg and then visit everywhere else in Russia. It's like night and day. All those billionaires and wealth are in two spots. Your impression Russia is rich and the people you talk to impressions are they're not rich are both right and both wrong.

Oh certainly. Im not saying that Russians are imperial rich like us. Russia is part of the imperial have-nots. The Anglo axis is the imperial haves. This is certainly true. We earn criminally overvalued imperial currency. Russians have to work for a living.

But this does not mean that Russia is pushover and a laughing stock like the western media says it is. This does not mean that Russia's economy is even particularily small. Because its not. It is actually quite big. It is no joke.

Im not sure where you guys spend your time but im surrounded by born again anti-Russia cold warriors. Russia is in the news all the time. So everyone has an opinion on Russia. I just assumed that you've heard this trope going around about the size of Russia's economy. Western propagndists are using nominal US dollar GDP measuring to measure Russia. This understates Russia's GDP by more than half. But they go with it. Because it makes Russia look bad.

I just think its lèse-majesté to go around claiming that a countries GDP is less than half of what it really is. Sure Russia has a lot of problems. But it has a solid footing and is going in the right dicrection. This isn't the 90's anymore and Russians shouldn't take anything the west says about their economy seriously. Because its mostly bullshit.

Russia is never as strong as it looks. And never as weak as it looks.

[Power Vertical]

I don’t think he was even trying to brag, he was pointing out that it’s in better shape than the west gives it credit for.

The Syrian argument is just stupid. They flee to Italy so they can make a relatively easy journey to other European countries who throw money at economic migrants, I mean refugees. Russia welcomes them too but they’d have to work hard for basic conditions. The British government openly posts online how much they’ll pay failed asylum seekers, why would you go to Russia if you’re on the take?

Nothing to do with gdp.

Exactly. That's all that I am saying.

As I said in my previous post, I am surrounded by cold warriors. Russia is in the media a lot. And people in the west really think that Russia today is 10% better than the 1990's. And that the economy is the size of Texas.

[SL0413]

The Syrian argument is just stupid. They flee to Italy so they can make a relatively easy journey to other European countries who throw money at economic migrants, I mean refugees. Russia welcomes them too but they’d have to work hard for basic conditions. The British government openly posts online how much they’ll pay failed asylum seekers, why would you go to Russia if you’re on the take?

Nothing to do with gdp.

Sorry, no.

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/russia-refuses-give-refugee-status-syrians-180116095003651.html

https://www.voanews.com/a/russia-an-unwelcoming-place-for-syrian-refugees/3569671.html

I am sorry but what is the fault with Russia's reasons?

Those articles don't detail any reasons, just notes that Russia doesn't welcome refugees, as counter to what was stated by Rosco.

[Wiz]

Power Vertical, have you been to Russia? If so, where?

Just signed up. Im a eastern Europe/Russia watcher from canada

  

Ah a Brit. Britain. The fifth biggest economy in the world.     

As they say Russia is a gas station pretending to be a country. Britain is a hedge fund pretending to be a country. 

Take a look.....at your Bank of Canada currency......



 

[rosco]

The Syrian argument is just stupid. They flee to Italy so they can make a relatively easy journey to other European countries who throw money at economic migrants, I mean refugees. Russia welcomes them too but they’d have to work hard for basic conditions. The British government openly posts online how much they’ll pay failed asylum seekers, why would you go to Russia if you’re on the take?

Nothing to do with gdp.

Sorry, no.

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/russia-refuses-give-refugee-status-syrians-180116095003651.html

https://www.voanews.com/a/russia-an-unwelcoming-place-for-syrian-refugees/3569671.html

I am sorry but what is the fault with Russia's reasons?

Those articles don't detail any reasons, just notes that Russia doesn't welcome refugees, as counter to what was stated by Rosco.

Those links talk about Syrians. The truth is that Russia welcomes refugees but they don’t get attractive handouts for their efforts. They’ll be worked and fed but safe. Why are you purposely misleading us?

Belarus is the same but astonishingly the mob headed for Europe. I wonder why?

[SL0413]

The Syrian argument is just stupid. They flee to Italy so they can make a relatively easy journey to other European countries who throw money at economic migrants, I mean refugees. Russia welcomes them too but they’d have to work hard for basic conditions. The British government openly posts online how much they’ll pay failed asylum seekers, why would you go to Russia if you’re on the take?

Nothing to do with gdp.

Sorry, no.

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/russia-refuses-give-refugee-status-syrians-180116095003651.html

https://www.voanews.com/a/russia-an-unwelcoming-place-for-syrian-refugees/3569671.html

I am sorry but what is the fault with Russia's reasons?

Those articles don't detail any reasons, just notes that Russia doesn't welcome refugees, as counter to what was stated by Rosco.

Those links talk about Syrians. The truth is that Russia welcomes refugees but they don’t get attractive handouts for their efforts. They’ll be worked and fed but safe. Why are you purposely misleading us?

Belarus is the same but astonishingly the mob headed for Europe. I wonder why?

Yes, that was the topic you and Billy was discussing. 

According to those articles, Russia welcomes refugees to apply, but only 1 has been given refugee status in 7 years.  Many more are given temporary resident status, especially if they can show ties to Russia (family, ethnic history).  But once the temporary resident status expires and they try to renew, their applications are not adjudicated.  Speculations are due to corruption, internal direction not to process, antipathy, understaffed immigration department, etc.  Whatever the reason, the refugees who were originally given temporary resident status, which allows work authorization, are in illegal status and have to take on unofficial jobs at low pay and have to rely on charity schooling for their children.


So, no, Russia does not welcome refugees, for any reasonable definition of "welcome".  They do have to allow refugees to apply, as part of the Geneva Convention.


There may be other articles that counter the above two links, but I have not been able to find any.  There are more articles stating the same issue - difficulties for refugees in obtaining status to be able to work legally in Russia - for other time periods from the 1990's to 2000's. 

[BillyB]

Those links talk about Syrians. The truth is that Russia welcomes refugees but they don’t get attractive handouts for their efforts. They’ll be worked and fed but safe. Why are you purposely misleading us?

Belarus is the same but astonishingly the mob headed for Europe. I wonder why?

Not everybody wants a free handout. Some Syrians are actually fleeing for their life and they prefer to live in a country that give them and their families the best chance to succeed. Many don't have the luxury of choosing where they want to go and hope any nation would take them. In the link below is an interactive map of the people coming and going in this world. If America wasn't so tough on immigration, we'd have a lot more people coming here.

http://metrocosm.com/global-immigration-map/

[Power Vertical]

Power Vertical, have you been to Russia? If so, where?

Just signed up. Im a eastern Europe/Russia watcher from canada

  

Ah a Brit. Britain. The fifth biggest economy in the world.     

As they say Russia is a gas station pretending to be a country. Britain is a hedge fund pretending to be a country. 

Take a look.....at your Bank of Canada currency......



 

Yup. Doesn't get much more imperial than that.

I was just making fun of Britain for thinking it was the 5th biggest economy. Its more like the 10th or 12th when you strip out the imperialism

[Manny]

I doubt most people would consider China a success since MOST people living there aren't successful.

I recall reading China has the largest middle class in the world. From my visits there, in the bit I go to, I am not seeing too many in poverty.