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Author Topic: Russia fires at Ukrainian ships and captures three vessels off Crimea  (Read 5974 times)

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Online 2tallbill

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Russia fires at Ukrainian ships and captures three vessels off Crimea
https://news.sky.com/story/russia-fires-at-ukraine-ships-in-black-sea-11563775




Crimea: Three Ukraine navy boats captured by Russian special forces following firefight, service claims
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-navy-russia-ship-fire-attack-crimea-artillery-war-kerch-strait-a8651321.html



Tension escalates after Russia seizes Ukraine naval ships
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46338671



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Re: Russia fires at Ukrainian ships and captures three vessels off Crimea
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2018, 06:12:24 AM »
I guess if it was in the Gulf and a few Saudi boats were having the same issue it wouldn't be in the news?  :chuckle:
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Offline Gipsy

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Re: Russia fires at Ukrainian ships and captures three vessels off Crimea
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2018, 06:37:18 AM »
Ukraine are now debating implementing martial law, one wonders why?

The severity and scope of martial law, which Poroshenko has avoided calling for since the start of the troubles in 2014, will be decided by Poroshenko and then must be supported by parliament. In 2015, the parliament passed a bill “On the Legal Regime of Martial Law.” According to it, the restrictions can include:

Increased security and special operation regimes for critical economic and infrastructure sites. The Cabinet of Ministers would confirm a list of sites requiring additional security.
Citizens could be obliged to carry out socially necessary work. Any citizen capable of working can be forced to work at a defense facility instead of doing their regular job.
The state could take control of private, communal, or state company property if necessary.
The state could regulate telecommunications, radio, and printing companies and infrastructure; mass media; and cultural organizations for wartime needs. Restrictions could be placed on amateur radio and the transmission of information through computer networks. That state can also use this infrastructure to spread information aimed at the military and/or the population.
A ban on peaceful protests, marches, gatherings, and other mass events.
Within the constitutional and legal framework, the state can ban political activities it deems detrimental to state security. These could include everything from activities aimed at ending the existence of Ukraine as a state to those promoting interethnic hatred.
Evacuating the population and material or cultural valuables if their safety is in danger. Again, the Cabinet would play a key role in determining what this includes.
Managers at enterprises and organizations could be fired for poor work performance and replaced with acting managers.
The government could pass additional measures to guard state secrecy.
Citizens of a foreign state that threatens Ukraine with aggression or an attack could be subject to forced relocation and internment.
Special rules for the production and sale of potent medications containing narcotic or psychotropic components. The Cabinet would determine the list of medications.
The state can limit relocation of its citizens, as well as foreigners.
A curfew.
A ban on selling alcohol.
Citizens can be ordered to host military personnel or internally displaced civilians in their homes.

The two significant impacts of martial law would be a ban on public gatherings and the postponement of the upcoming presidential elections.


Aha, maybe that's the reason behind the plan.
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Re: Russia fires at Ukrainian ships and captures three vessels off Crimea
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2018, 06:45:21 AM »
The ship blocking access to the Azov sea at the Kerch crossing is now removed.

There is a treaty between Ukraine and Russia dating back to 2003. Under the terms of that treaty vessels are required to notify intent and take on a pilot before crossing the straits.

When Ukraine military vessels attempted to cross without notification and subsequently refusing pilotage Russia was left with little alternative action especially given threats made by the Ukrainian regime in respect of the Kerch crossing.

At the same time as this action was taken Ukrainian forces overran a town in the demilitarised region of the LPR/DPR in contravention of the Minsk 2 agreement. Possibly a coincidence, probably not.

Overall this seems to be a pretty serious couple of events, notwithstanding the rapid resolution of the naval incident.

And, yes, with just 8% support Poroshenko is incentivised to postpone the end of his gravy train. In that context, in order for programing to be effective there must be reasons for the imposition of martial law. That means that there must be a series of events that will be presented as threats to 'national security'. We have just seen the first one, the second is playing out in the so-called demilitarised zone and will depend on how the LPR/DPR choose to react.
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Re: Russia fires at Ukrainian ships and captures three vessels off Crimea
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2018, 07:03:41 AM »
Ukraine are now debating implementing martial law, one wonders why?

The severity and scope of martial law, which Poroshenko has avoided calling for since the start of the troubles in 2014, will be decided by Poroshenko and then must be supported by parliament. In 2015, the parliament passed a bill “On the Legal Regime of Martial Law.” According to it, the restrictions can include:

Increased security and special operation regimes for critical economic and infrastructure sites. The Cabinet of Ministers would confirm a list of sites requiring additional security.
Citizens could be obliged to carry out socially necessary work. Any citizen capable of working can be forced to work at a defense facility instead of doing their regular job.
The state could take control of private, communal, or state company property if necessary.
The state could regulate telecommunications, radio, and printing companies and infrastructure; mass media; and cultural organizations for wartime needs. Restrictions could be placed on amateur radio and the transmission of information through computer networks. That state can also use this infrastructure to spread information aimed at the military and/or the population.
A ban on peaceful protests, marches, gatherings, and other mass events.
Within the constitutional and legal framework, the state can ban political activities it deems detrimental to state security. These could include everything from activities aimed at ending the existence of Ukraine as a state to those promoting interethnic hatred.
Evacuating the population and material or cultural valuables if their safety is in danger. Again, the Cabinet would play a key role in determining what this includes.
Managers at enterprises and organizations could be fired for poor work performance and replaced with acting managers.
The government could pass additional measures to guard state secrecy.
Citizens of a foreign state that threatens Ukraine with aggression or an attack could be subject to forced relocation and internment.
Special rules for the production and sale of potent medications containing narcotic or psychotropic components. The Cabinet would determine the list of medications.
The state can limit relocation of its citizens, as well as foreigners.
A curfew.
A ban on selling alcohol.
Citizens can be ordered to host military personnel or internally displaced civilians in their homes.

The two significant impacts of martial law would be a ban on public gatherings and the postponement of the upcoming presidential elections.


Aha, maybe that's the reason behind the plan.

If as described a fairly good recipe for another revolution.
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Online andrewfi

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Re: Russia fires at Ukrainian ships and captures three vessels off Crimea
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2018, 07:22:30 AM »
Nope no new 'revolution'.

There's no opposition bloc to oppose martial law. There's opponents of Poroshenko but those groups and people would, on the whole, support military action against the LPR/DPR and would thus go along with the provocations necessary for such action to occur.

The people of the region bordering the disputed territories were not riled up enough to join with the people of the LPR/DPR in 2014 and are unlikely to be able to do so now.

Of course, there's separatist sentiment among communities in the border regions adjoining Hungary and Poland but no unity and no likelihood of support from either neighbour.

The only countervailing action might be mass disobedience in case of more forced military drafts.

Unlike 2013/14 there's no managed 10% ready to be deployed against the government.
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Offline Manny

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Re: Russia fires at Ukrainian ships and captures three vessels off Crimea
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2018, 07:42:09 AM »
Its muscle flexing because Ukraine seized a Russian fishing boat a few weeks ago. But also because Ukraine never got the correct permission. As ever, the actual details not reported by western media are on RT: https://www.rt.com/news/444857-russia-ukraine-kerch-strait-standoff/

This tickled me on Al Jazeera.

Quote from: Al Jazeera
Pro-Russian authorities in annexed Crimea accused the United States of being behind the escalation.

"Our American partners who rule Ukraine are behind all this. I am absolutely sure that everything is done following their commands. What's important for them is to get Russia involved in another conflict," Vladimir Konstantinov, head of Crimea's parliament, told Russian media.

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Re: Russia fires at Ukrainian ships and captures three vessels off Crimea
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2018, 08:04:16 AM »
I guess there will be another revolution  some time , with another President lining his and all his fiends pockets (Yes I know the same sort of things go on in Russia , but they are twice as greedy in Ukraine)

Its like the lot over in the Middle East , they love burning flags, or pouring petrol on an effigy it's never going to change its in the blood! 500 years time they will still be burning flags.. and riding camels.. :laugh:

For the Ukraine they like stealing money or doing as little as possible for as much money as possible, so it doesn't matter if Aunty Anna becomes president , or Boris the baker in the end they will get greedy and as usual steal the money (Ok there may be a few honest people but in general )

An example of Ukrainian thinking (And many others even in the UK.. BUT lots and lots more so in Ukraine )

I have a friend in Ukraine who's mother worked for an agency a long time back she went to collect the guys from airport as part of the service, and he couldn't understand why these guys from the US , who probably spent thousands of dollars finding their dream just left his mom $15.00 tip, as he said "Well they paid thousands for all their trips and expenses to find a women to marry , you would think they would of given my mother $1000.00, what is $1000.00 to them?"

And that is how it usually is..

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Offline Confederate

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Re: Russia fires at Ukrainian ships and captures three vessels off Crimea
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2018, 08:04:57 AM »
Its muscle flexing because Ukraine seized a Russian fishing boat a few weeks ago. But also because Ukraine never got the correct permission. As ever, the actual details not reported by western media are on RT: https://www.rt.com/news/444857-russia-ukraine-kerch-strait-standoff/

This tickled me on Al Jazeera.

Quote from: Al Jazeera
Pro-Russian authorities in annexed Crimea accused the United States of being behind the escalation.

"Our American partners who rule Ukraine are behind all this. I am absolutely sure that everything is done following their commands. What's important for them is to get Russia involved in another conflict," Vladimir Konstantinov, head of Crimea's parliament, told Russian media.

The Al Jazeera quote is absurd. Russia does not get to bully Ukraine and simultaneously blame the USA for their own actions.

Grow up, handle your business and stop blaming others.  :coffeeread:
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Online andrewfi

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Re: Russia fires at Ukrainian ships and captures three vessels off Crimea
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2018, 08:19:34 AM »
The fishing vessel was captured in March.

This incident is unrelated. The Ukrainian vessels did not follow their obligations and had to be detained as a result.

All vessels transiting to the Azov sea must notify their intent and take on a pilot. Not doing so leads to the detention of the vessel.

That said, the behavior of the Ukrainian craft before the attempted crossing would not have served to enable the Russian officials to be confident that there was no harmful intent. They'd have been shitting bricks as they watched the vessels approach the Kerch bridge.
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Offline B.B.

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Re: Russia fires at Ukrainian ships and captures three vessels off Crimea
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2018, 09:07:14 AM »
There is a treaty between Ukraine and Russia dating back to 2003.

I am reminded that there was a treaty dating to 1994, too.

B/B
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Re: Russia fires at Ukrainian ships and captures three vessels off Crimea
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2018, 09:31:29 AM »
There is a treaty between Ukraine and Russia dating back to 2003.

I am reminded that there was a treaty dating to 1994, too.

B/B

Yeah but Russia claims they needed to “protect” ethnic Russians.

Can’t wait for a Billion Chinese to flood the Far East and claim same.  :coffeeread:
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Re: Russia fires at Ukrainian ships and captures three vessels off Crimea
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2018, 12:20:36 PM »
The treaty I mentioned is specifically about access to the sea of Azov. The reason is that access can only be through Russian waters and thus needed to be mediated. Is similar to the treaty with Turkey in respect of the Black Sea and access.
Please don't confuse yourselves.
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Offline SL0413

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Re: Russia fires at Ukrainian ships and captures three vessels off Crimea
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2018, 02:24:47 PM »
The ship blocking access to the Azov sea at the Kerch crossing is now removed.

There is a treaty between Ukraine and Russia dating back to 2003. Under the terms of that treaty vessels are required to notify intent and take on a pilot before crossing the straits.

When Ukraine military vessels attempted to cross without notification and subsequently refusing pilotage Russia was left with little alternative action especially given threats made by the Ukrainian regime in respect of the Kerch crossing.

At the same time as this action was taken Ukrainian forces overran a town in the demilitarised region of the LPR/DPR in contravention of the Minsk 2 agreement. Possibly a coincidence, probably not.

Overall this seems to be a pretty serious couple of events, notwithstanding the rapid resolution of the naval incident.

And, yes, with just 8% support Poroshenko is incentivised to postpone the end of his gravy train. In that context, in order for programing to be effective there must be reasons for the imposition of martial law. That means that there must be a series of events that will be presented as threats to 'national security'. We have just seen the first one, the second is playing out in the so-called demilitarised zone and will depend on how the LPR/DPR choose to react.

I thought that provision of the treaty only applies to commercial vessels.  Non commercial vessels under the Ukrainian or Russian flag were to have free access.

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Royal Navy ship buzzed by 17 'hostile' Russian jets off the coast of Crimea
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2018, 02:34:37 PM »
Royal Navy ship buzzed by 17 'hostile' Russian jets off the coast of Crimea
https://news.sky.com/story/royal-navy-ship-buzzed-by-17-hostile-russian-jets-off-the-coast-of-crimea-11564248


Royal Navy Destroyer swarmed by 17 Russian jets in Black Seahttps://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/royal-navy-destroyer-swarmed-by-17-russian-jets-in-black-sea/

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Ukraine Declares Martial Law in Regions Bordering Russia
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2018, 02:40:57 PM »
Ukraine Declares Martial Law in Regions Bordering Russia
https://www.voanews.com/a/ukraine-demands-russia-release-ukrainian-sailors-ships/4673893.html


Ukrainian lawmakers approve martial law as tensions with Russia escalate
https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/26/europe/ukraine-russia-kerch-strait-intl/index.html


Ukraine backs martial law after sea clash
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46352367

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Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.
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Online 2tallbill

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FSUW are not for entry level daters. FSUW don't do vague FSUW like a man of action so be a man of action  If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane. There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.
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Online 2tallbill

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Russia fires at Ukrainian ships and captures three vessels off Crimea
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2018, 02:53:30 PM »
Russian ships used weapons to stop & seize Ukrainian vessels violating territorial waters – FSB
https://www.rt.com/news/444853-russia-ukraine-ships-conflict/
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Online 2tallbill

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Russia fires at Ukrainian ships and captures three vessels off Crimea
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2018, 02:56:31 PM »
Video Shows Russian And Ukrainian Ships Clashing | TIME



Russia confirms it fired at Ukrainian ships in major escalation of Crimea tensions
https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-ukraine-navy-tensions-2018-11?r=UK&IR=T
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Online 2tallbill

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\Russia fires at Ukrainian ships and captures three vessels off Crimea
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2018, 02:57:33 PM »
Berlin proposes French-German mediation in Russia, Ukraine crisis
https://www.expatica.com/fr/news/country-news/Ukraine-Russia-conflict-Germany-France_2239496.html
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Online 2tallbill

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Russia fires at Ukrainian ships and captures three vessels off Crimea
« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2018, 02:59:32 PM »
John McCain dies so CNN takes up his mantle?

Vladimir Putin needs to feel real consequences for his aggression
https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/26/opinions/putin-ukraine-kerch-opinion-intl/index.html
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Re: Russia fires at Ukrainian ships and captures three vessels off Crimea
« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2018, 03:08:23 PM »
As Andrew has already noted some are mixing up dates and timelines.
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Re: Russia fires at Ukrainian ships and captures three vessels off Crimea
« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2018, 03:14:48 PM »
This report from October 10th sheds light on Russia's presence and previous tensions in the waters near the straights

Don't shoot the messenger, links to articles posted, don't necessarily reflect my personal opinion.

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Re: Russia fires at Ukrainian ships and captures three vessels off Crimea
« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2018, 03:42:18 PM »
One could argue that Russia has screwed over Ukraine.

Don't shoot the messenger, links to articles posted, don't necessarily reflect my personal opinion.