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Author Topic: Nord Stream 2 construction begins in German waters  (Read 478 times)

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Online Wiz

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Nord Stream 2 construction begins in German waters
« on: August 31, 2018, 03:07:34 PM »
Nord Stream 2 construction begins in German waters


Construction work for Nord Stream 2, the planned Russian gas pipeline to Europe, has started in German coastal waters, despite the threat of sanctions from US president Donald Trump and condemnation from across the EU.

The contentious pipeline, which will double Russian gas imports to Germany across the Baltic Sea and reduce shipments through Ukraine, has heightened geopolitical tensions between Europe, the US and Russia, souring relations between Berlin and Washington and highlighting the EU’s fractured stance towards Moscow.

Owned by Kremlin-controlled Gazprom, the project is supported by German chancellor Angela Merkel’s government but opposed by a large group of EU states. Many fear that the pipeline will increase Europe’s energy dependence on Russia and has been engineered as a political weapon to hurt Kiev.

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Re: Nord Stream 2 construction begins in German waters
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2018, 01:50:34 AM »
Is that deranged-looking man Bill Maher? An A-class nutter if I ever saw one.

I once read an article discussing the use of LNG in various European countries as related to reducing overall carbon footprint. At one point the author of the article basically suggested that to reduce carbon pollution everyone will just have to stop taking hot showers and heating their homes.  :laugh:

Some people are just laughable. Progress is progress is progress.
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Online Wiz

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Re: Nord Stream 2 construction begins in German waters
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2018, 03:28:34 AM »
Is that deranged-looking man Bill Maher? An A-class nutter if I ever saw one.

I once read an article discussing the use of LNG in various European countries as related to reducing overall carbon footprint. At one point the author of the article basically suggested that to reduce carbon pollution everyone will just have to stop taking hot showers and heating their homes.  :laugh:

Some people are just laughable. Progress is progress is progress.

I don't know who he is....as I could not find one for Trump.

The US cannot supply LNG, even today, but if and when the cost will be very expensive comparing with the Gas that Russia supply to Germany and other countries.

The article is very clear.... Germany needs a guarantee cheap energy and Russia is not stupid to loose so good customer and will do whatever it takes to continue. Last year Germany paid 480 Billion Euros and once the pipe No 2 is ready.....will double it's earnings only from Germany!That will be 30% of Russians GDP.

Trump removed USA from the Paris Accord.... so he is the one to blame and not the other nations.


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Online msmoby

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Re: Nord Stream 2 construction begins in German waters
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2018, 04:16:20 AM »
Wiz

please search for and inwardly digest these words ....

"A key part of ensuring secure and affordable supplies of energy to Europeans involves diversifying supply routes. This includes identifying and building new routes that decrease the dependence of EU countries on a single supplier of natural gas and other energy resources."


https://ec.europa.eu/energy/en/topics/imports-and-secure-supplies/gas-and-oil-supply-routes


Also



Project of Common interest

You'll find that whilst you speak of over-reliance on the Ukraine route there's plans to vastly reduce the reliance on a single supply source ..

1 new route opening soon that will supply southern EU states inc .. Greece ...within a year ...NOT from that source



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Re: Nord Stream 2 construction begins in German waters
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2018, 08:50:32 AM »
Is that deranged-looking man Bill Maher? An A-class nutter if I ever saw one.


Yes.  :chuckle:

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Re: Nord Stream 2 construction begins in German waters
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2018, 08:58:19 AM »
Well good luck to both russia and america. To combat  global warming netherlands is stopping all use of gas. Both pumping and exporting the north sea and using for cooking and heating
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Re: Nord Stream 2 construction begins in German waters
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2018, 01:46:55 PM »
Wiz

please search for and inwardly digest these words ....

"A key part of ensuring secure and affordable supplies of energy to Europeans involves diversifying supply routes. This includes identifying and building new routes that decrease the dependence of EU countries on a single supplier of natural gas and other energy resources."


https://ec.europa.eu/energy/en/topics/imports-and-secure-supplies/gas-and-oil-supply-routes


Also



Project of Common interest

You'll find that whilst you speak of over-reliance on the Ukraine route there's plans to vastly reduce the reliance on a single supply source ..

1 new route opening soon that will supply southern EU states inc .. Greece ...within a year ...NOT from that source

Our Moby is possibly referring to the TANAP pipeline which was inaugurated in June this year, however, he missed out a couple of important facts about this pipeline.


1, Initially, and for the first few years, it will only supply Turkey with gas.

2, The pipeline between Turkey and Greece is currently incomplete and will most likely not be completed for another 2 years.

3, The South stream pipeline from Russia to Turkey is itself planned to connect into the TANAP pipeline at the Turkish hub.

4, Gazprom have ownership of all the gas from Azerbaijan Shah field (which is at this time the only supplier into the pipeline) for the first few years to pay off the debt for field exploration and bringing the field into production..

To move onto the Ukraine pipeline, its license to transit gas is up for renewal in 2019, and without substantial upgrading at an estimated cost of $14billion, i.e. a virtual complete rebuild, its chances of being safely re-licensed is in doubt, added to which, the cost of transiting overland is far higher than underseas transit..
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Online Wiz

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Re: Nord Stream 2 construction begins in German waters
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2018, 04:30:12 PM »
Moby

Thank you for pointing out to me the article about the EU gas supplies and its effort to find alternative sources of gas supplies for its members.

Just for your information, I already knew about it because the Greek papers and analysts on TV have already mentioned all that especially when the Greek Minister of Energy, G. Stathakis, two years ago went to Azerbaijan and signed the agreement for the TANAP (in Greece refer to it as TAP).

As Gypsi already mentioned this pipeline will not be ready before 2 years because it only started work inside Greece, the past 4-5 months and already there are a lot of problems with the Farmers and Land owners where it’s going through. I understand that many of them have gone to courts demanding either change of route or to be paid compensation too. The Greek courts of course are working with the speed of light….and the farmers are not afraid to fight, including with guns, for their property.

This pipeline will go through Greece, to Albania and onwards to Italy. That is why the EU invited Albania to apply for membership, which will not be able to do before the 2025, according to EU sources.

May I point out that the article I posted from FT, it was to highlight the fact that Germany is looking after each own interests and Merkel was not happy with Trump, as you must have noticed, during the G7 meeting in Canada. Few days ago Putin and Merkel met in Berlin and it’s obvious the change of the German attitude against the sanctions to Russia, as it affects their own companies, industry  and Banks too.


According to the Greek news and TV, Trump has requested to use the NE of Greece port of Alexandroupolis for LNG supplies. So far we don’t know many details but….we will see what happens, as soon will be elections in Greece.

Quote
Moby said:
“You'll find that whilst you speak of over-reliance on the Ukraine route there's plans to vastly reduce the reliance on a single supply source ..”

Nowhere in my comments, I mentioned anything about Ukraine. Your fertile imagination is working overtime.

Now to summit up all about Pipe lines, supplies etc, just listen carefully what Putin said to Merkel, who speaks fluent Russian, politely! 


Gypsi

Thank you very much for your excellent post, saving me lots of time, so I can go to sleep early, with my wife together, who just arrived back from work. Fortunately I don't have to catch a plane to Cyprus to meet her!

 ;D :)
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Offline ?ManyQuestions?

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Re: Nord Stream 2 construction begins in German waters
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2018, 04:50:44 PM »
Well good luck to both russia and america. To combat  global warming netherlands is stopping all use of gas. Both pumping and exporting the north sea and using for cooking and heating

What are they going to use, if not gas? Perhaps geothermal energy for heating and electric heating elements in ovens? Just curious.

Online Texan77

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Re: Nord Stream 2 construction begins in German waters
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2018, 06:12:38 PM »
Yea a 25 per cent tax on German cars will help the US government's  balance of payments. Maybe this will be good for everybody.

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Re: Nord Stream 2 construction begins in German waters
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2018, 06:47:17 PM »
Yea a 25 per cent tax on German cars will help the US government's  balance of payments. Maybe this will be good for everybody.

And if the 'German' cars are built in the United States, do we taxes these as well?
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Re: Nord Stream 2 construction begins in German waters
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2018, 08:55:44 PM »
Probably not. But this is what I have heard was being talked about. I think no body know what will end up happening including Trump. So the wheel spin and where is stops no body knows. So sport fans, place your bets.

Yea I it would be fun to see Germany try to replace USA trade with Russian. Maybe they will try to get Russia to pay for the German defense bill also since Germany does not seem to want to pay for it's own defense.  Guys you just got to love it.

Online Wiz

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Re: Nord Stream 2 construction begins in German waters
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2018, 10:59:34 PM »
Yea a 25 per cent tax on German cars will help the US government's  balance of payments. Maybe this will be good for everybody.

Texan

Do you have a problem reading the title of this thread?

You are  :offtopic:

If you want to talk about sanctions and car tariffs......start another thread and let us discuss the Energy problems here.

 >:(
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Re: Nord Stream 2 construction begins in German waters
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2018, 02:31:41 AM »
Well good luck to both russia and america. To combat  global warming netherlands is stopping all use of gas. Both pumping and exporting the north sea and using for cooking and heating

What are they going to use, if not gas? Perhaps geothermal energy for heating and electric heating elements in ovens? Just curious.

Sun heating & electricity
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Re: Nord Stream 2 construction begins in German waters
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2018, 02:37:28 AM »

Our Moby is possibly referring to the TANAP pipeline which was inaugurated in June this year, however, he missed out a couple of important facts about this pipeline.

'Moby' isn't referring - the EU website is .... 

1, Initially, and for the first few years, it will only supply Turkey with gas.

2, The pipeline between Turkey and Greece is currently incomplete and will most likely not be completed for another 2 years.



A/ TAP - the onward pipe-line to Italy, etc is 97% laid and ahead of target :

https://seenews.com/news/almost-97-of-gas-pipes-in-albania-greece-laid-end-to-end-tap-624364

B/ EARLY 2020 - it is now Sept 18 - the last quarter of 2018 ...  let's compromise - it will be 1 and a half years or less ....

"After completion of the TAP, the gas will reach Europe in early 2020."

https://www.azernews.az/oil_and_gas/133310.html


IF you believe Erdogan - June 2019 ...

"Erdogan said on Tuesday gas deliveries to Greece would begin in June 2019."

https://www.reuters.com/article/energy-turkey-tanap-idAFL8N1TE5BE

https://www.pipelineoilandgasnews.com/regionalinternational-news/regional-news/2018/june/turkey-opens-tanap-gas-pipeline-from-azerbaijan/





3, The South stream pipeline from Russia to Turkey is itself planned to connect into the TANAP pipeline at the Turkish hub.

I believe what you are trying to tell us is that it could be routed - such supply would be measured and billed

Take a look at the respective routes - only Turkey ( BOTAS) would be able to reroute the gas supplies from TANAP and Turkstream



4, Gazprom have ownership of all the gas from Azerbaijan Shah field (which is at this time the only supplier into the pipeline) for the first few years to pay off the debt for field exploration and bringing the field into production..

????

The Shah Deniz field is operated by BP which has a share of 28.8%. Other partners include TPAO (19%), SOCAR (16.7%), Petronas (15.5%), LUKoil (10%) and NIOC (10%)


To move onto the Ukraine pipeline, its license to transit gas is up for renewal in 2019, and without substantial upgrading at an estimated cost of $14billion, i.e. a virtual complete rebuild, its chances of being safely re-licensed is in doubt, added to which, the cost of transiting overland is far higher than underseas transit..

Many Gazprom contracts fall for renewal from 2019 re supply to EU nations ... 

Note: the TAP pipeline was built to allow reverse flow tech from the get go ( Italy - to the Balkans )