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Author Topic: Nord Stream 2 construction begins in German waters  (Read 1908 times)

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Offline Wiz

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Nord Stream 2 construction begins in German waters
« on: August 31, 2018, 03:07:34 PM »
Nord Stream 2 construction begins in German waters


Construction work for Nord Stream 2, the planned Russian gas pipeline to Europe, has started in German coastal waters, despite the threat of sanctions from US president Donald Trump and condemnation from across the EU.

The contentious pipeline, which will double Russian gas imports to Germany across the Baltic Sea and reduce shipments through Ukraine, has heightened geopolitical tensions between Europe, the US and Russia, souring relations between Berlin and Washington and highlighting the EU’s fractured stance towards Moscow.

Owned by Kremlin-controlled Gazprom, the project is supported by German chancellor Angela Merkel’s government but opposed by a large group of EU states. Many fear that the pipeline will increase Europe’s energy dependence on Russia and has been engineered as a political weapon to hurt Kiev.


Offline Lord of the Dance

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Re: Nord Stream 2 construction begins in German waters
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2018, 01:50:34 AM »
Is that deranged-looking man Bill Maher? An A-class nutter if I ever saw one.

I once read an article discussing the use of LNG in various European countries as related to reducing overall carbon footprint. At one point the author of the article basically suggested that to reduce carbon pollution everyone will just have to stop taking hot showers and heating their homes.  :laugh:

Some people are just laughable. Progress is progress is progress.
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Offline Wiz

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Re: Nord Stream 2 construction begins in German waters
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2018, 03:28:34 AM »
Is that deranged-looking man Bill Maher? An A-class nutter if I ever saw one.

I once read an article discussing the use of LNG in various European countries as related to reducing overall carbon footprint. At one point the author of the article basically suggested that to reduce carbon pollution everyone will just have to stop taking hot showers and heating their homes.  :laugh:

Some people are just laughable. Progress is progress is progress.

I don't know who he is....as I could not find one for Trump.

The US cannot supply LNG, even today, but if and when the cost will be very expensive comparing with the Gas that Russia supply to Germany and other countries.

The article is very clear.... Germany needs a guarantee cheap energy and Russia is not stupid to loose so good customer and will do whatever it takes to continue. Last year Germany paid 480 Billion Euros and once the pipe No 2 is ready.....will double it's earnings only from Germany!That will be 30% of Russians GDP.

Trump removed USA from the Paris Accord.... so he is the one to blame and not the other nations.




Online msmoby

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Re: Nord Stream 2 construction begins in German waters
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2018, 04:16:20 AM »
Wiz

please search for and inwardly digest these words ....

"A key part of ensuring secure and affordable supplies of energy to Europeans involves diversifying supply routes. This includes identifying and building new routes that decrease the dependence of EU countries on a single supplier of natural gas and other energy resources."


https://ec.europa.eu/energy/en/topics/imports-and-secure-supplies/gas-and-oil-supply-routes


Also



Project of Common interest

You'll find that whilst you speak of over-reliance on the Ukraine route there's plans to vastly reduce the reliance on a single supply source ..

1 new route opening soon that will supply southern EU states inc .. Greece ...within a year ...NOT from that source



Offline Confederate

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Re: Nord Stream 2 construction begins in German waters
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2018, 08:50:32 AM »
Is that deranged-looking man Bill Maher? An A-class nutter if I ever saw one.


Yes.  :chuckle:
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Re: Nord Stream 2 construction begins in German waters
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2018, 08:58:19 AM »
Well good luck to both russia and america. To combat  global warming netherlands is stopping all use of gas. Both pumping and exporting the north sea and using for cooking and heating
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Offline Gipsy

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Re: Nord Stream 2 construction begins in German waters
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2018, 01:46:55 PM »
Wiz

please search for and inwardly digest these words ....

"A key part of ensuring secure and affordable supplies of energy to Europeans involves diversifying supply routes. This includes identifying and building new routes that decrease the dependence of EU countries on a single supplier of natural gas and other energy resources."


https://ec.europa.eu/energy/en/topics/imports-and-secure-supplies/gas-and-oil-supply-routes


Also



Project of Common interest

You'll find that whilst you speak of over-reliance on the Ukraine route there's plans to vastly reduce the reliance on a single supply source ..

1 new route opening soon that will supply southern EU states inc .. Greece ...within a year ...NOT from that source

Our Moby is possibly referring to the TANAP pipeline which was inaugurated in June this year, however, he missed out a couple of important facts about this pipeline.


1, Initially, and for the first few years, it will only supply Turkey with gas.

2, The pipeline between Turkey and Greece is currently incomplete and will most likely not be completed for another 2 years.

3, The South stream pipeline from Russia to Turkey is itself planned to connect into the TANAP pipeline at the Turkish hub.

4, Gazprom have ownership of all the gas from Azerbaijan Shah field (which is at this time the only supplier into the pipeline) for the first few years to pay off the debt for field exploration and bringing the field into production..

To move onto the Ukraine pipeline, its license to transit gas is up for renewal in 2019, and without substantial upgrading at an estimated cost of $14billion, i.e. a virtual complete rebuild, its chances of being safely re-licensed is in doubt, added to which, the cost of transiting overland is far higher than underseas transit..
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Offline Wiz

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Re: Nord Stream 2 construction begins in German waters
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2018, 04:30:12 PM »
Moby

Thank you for pointing out to me the article about the EU gas supplies and its effort to find alternative sources of gas supplies for its members.

Just for your information, I already knew about it because the Greek papers and analysts on TV have already mentioned all that especially when the Greek Minister of Energy, G. Stathakis, two years ago went to Azerbaijan and signed the agreement for the TANAP (in Greece refer to it as TAP).

As Gypsi already mentioned this pipeline will not be ready before 2 years because it only started work inside Greece, the past 4-5 months and already there are a lot of problems with the Farmers and Land owners where it’s going through. I understand that many of them have gone to courts demanding either change of route or to be paid compensation too. The Greek courts of course are working with the speed of light….and the farmers are not afraid to fight, including with guns, for their property.

This pipeline will go through Greece, to Albania and onwards to Italy. That is why the EU invited Albania to apply for membership, which will not be able to do before the 2025, according to EU sources.

May I point out that the article I posted from FT, it was to highlight the fact that Germany is looking after each own interests and Merkel was not happy with Trump, as you must have noticed, during the G7 meeting in Canada. Few days ago Putin and Merkel met in Berlin and it’s obvious the change of the German attitude against the sanctions to Russia, as it affects their own companies, industry  and Banks too.


According to the Greek news and TV, Trump has requested to use the NE of Greece port of Alexandroupolis for LNG supplies. So far we don’t know many details but….we will see what happens, as soon will be elections in Greece.

Quote
Moby said:
“You'll find that whilst you speak of over-reliance on the Ukraine route there's plans to vastly reduce the reliance on a single supply source ..”

Nowhere in my comments, I mentioned anything about Ukraine. Your fertile imagination is working overtime.

Now to summit up all about Pipe lines, supplies etc, just listen carefully what Putin said to Merkel, who speaks fluent Russian, politely! 


Gypsi

Thank you very much for your excellent post, saving me lots of time, so I can go to sleep early, with my wife together, who just arrived back from work. Fortunately I don't have to catch a plane to Cyprus to meet her!

 ;D :)

Offline ?ManyQuestions?

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Re: Nord Stream 2 construction begins in German waters
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2018, 04:50:44 PM »
Well good luck to both russia and america. To combat  global warming netherlands is stopping all use of gas. Both pumping and exporting the north sea and using for cooking and heating

What are they going to use, if not gas? Perhaps geothermal energy for heating and electric heating elements in ovens? Just curious.

Offline Texan77

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Re: Nord Stream 2 construction begins in German waters
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2018, 06:12:38 PM »
Yea a 25 per cent tax on German cars will help the US government's  balance of payments. Maybe this will be good for everybody.

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Re: Nord Stream 2 construction begins in German waters
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2018, 06:47:17 PM »
Yea a 25 per cent tax on German cars will help the US government's  balance of payments. Maybe this will be good for everybody.

And if the 'German' cars are built in the United States, do we taxes these as well?
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Offline Texan77

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Re: Nord Stream 2 construction begins in German waters
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2018, 08:55:44 PM »
Probably not. But this is what I have heard was being talked about. I think no body know what will end up happening including Trump. So the wheel spin and where is stops no body knows. So sport fans, place your bets.

Yea I it would be fun to see Germany try to replace USA trade with Russian. Maybe they will try to get Russia to pay for the German defense bill also since Germany does not seem to want to pay for it's own defense.  Guys you just got to love it.

Offline Wiz

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Re: Nord Stream 2 construction begins in German waters
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2018, 10:59:34 PM »
Yea a 25 per cent tax on German cars will help the US government's  balance of payments. Maybe this will be good for everybody.

Texan

Do you have a problem reading the title of this thread?

You are  :offtopic:

If you want to talk about sanctions and car tariffs......start another thread and let us discuss the Energy problems here.

 >:(

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Re: Nord Stream 2 construction begins in German waters
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2018, 02:31:41 AM »
Well good luck to both russia and america. To combat  global warming netherlands is stopping all use of gas. Both pumping and exporting the north sea and using for cooking and heating

What are they going to use, if not gas? Perhaps geothermal energy for heating and electric heating elements in ovens? Just curious.

Sun heating & electricity
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Online msmoby

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Re: Nord Stream 2 construction begins in German waters
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2018, 02:37:28 AM »

Our Moby is possibly referring to the TANAP pipeline which was inaugurated in June this year, however, he missed out a couple of important facts about this pipeline.

'Moby' isn't referring - the EU website is .... 

1, Initially, and for the first few years, it will only supply Turkey with gas.

2, The pipeline between Turkey and Greece is currently incomplete and will most likely not be completed for another 2 years.



A/ TAP - the onward pipe-line to Italy, etc is 97% laid and ahead of target :

https://seenews.com/news/almost-97-of-gas-pipes-in-albania-greece-laid-end-to-end-tap-624364

B/ EARLY 2020 - it is now Sept 18 - the last quarter of 2018 ...  let's compromise - it will be 1 and a half years or less ....

"After completion of the TAP, the gas will reach Europe in early 2020."

https://www.azernews.az/oil_and_gas/133310.html


IF you believe Erdogan - June 2019 ...

"Erdogan said on Tuesday gas deliveries to Greece would begin in June 2019."

https://www.reuters.com/article/energy-turkey-tanap-idAFL8N1TE5BE

https://www.pipelineoilandgasnews.com/regionalinternational-news/regional-news/2018/june/turkey-opens-tanap-gas-pipeline-from-azerbaijan/





3, The South stream pipeline from Russia to Turkey is itself planned to connect into the TANAP pipeline at the Turkish hub.

I believe what you are trying to tell us is that it could be routed - such supply would be measured and billed

Take a look at the respective routes - only Turkey ( BOTAS) would be able to reroute the gas supplies from TANAP and Turkstream



4, Gazprom have ownership of all the gas from Azerbaijan Shah field (which is at this time the only supplier into the pipeline) for the first few years to pay off the debt for field exploration and bringing the field into production..

????

The Shah Deniz field is operated by BP which has a share of 28.8%. Other partners include TPAO (19%), SOCAR (16.7%), Petronas (15.5%), LUKoil (10%) and NIOC (10%)


To move onto the Ukraine pipeline, its license to transit gas is up for renewal in 2019, and without substantial upgrading at an estimated cost of $14billion, i.e. a virtual complete rebuild, its chances of being safely re-licensed is in doubt, added to which, the cost of transiting overland is far higher than underseas transit..

Many Gazprom contracts fall for renewal from 2019 re supply to EU nations ... 

Note: the TAP pipeline was built to allow reverse flow tech from the get go ( Italy - to the Balkans )



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Re: Nord Stream 2 construction begins in German waters
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2018, 09:57:01 AM »

The US cannot supply LNG, even today, but if and when the cost will be very expensive comparing with the Gas that Russia supply to Germany and other countries.

U.S. Liquefied Natural Gas Exports Just Quadrupled
Last year Gazprom, Russia’s state-owned natural gas company, provided
some 40 percent of Europe’s gas needs. Gazprom produced 16.6 trillion
cubic feet of gas.

By comparison, America produced almost 27 trillion cubic feet of natural gas
in 2017 and, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, is on
track to produce 43 trillion cubic feet of natural gas by 2050.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckdevore/2018/05/14/u-s-liquefied-natural-gas-exports-just-quadrupled-its-good-for-the-economy-national-security/#481f27c127b5

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Offline Lord of the Dance

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Re: Nord Stream 2 construction begins in German waters
« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2018, 11:30:34 AM »

U.S. Liquefied Natural Gas Exports Just Quadrupled
Last year Gazprom, Russia’s state-owned natural gas company, provided
some 40 percent of Europe’s gas needs. Gazprom produced 16.6 trillion
cubic feet of gas.

By comparison, America produced almost 27 trillion cubic feet of natural gas
in 2017 and, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, is on
track to produce 43 trillion cubic feet of natural gas by 2050.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckdevore/2018/05/14/u-s-liquefied-natural-gas-exports-just-quadrupled-its-good-for-the-economy-national-security/#481f27c127b5

Quite pleased to be a part of this industry; natural gas will continue to play a major role in meeting our nation's energy needs for at least the next 75 − 100 years.
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Re: Nord Stream 2 construction begins in German waters
« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2018, 12:12:19 PM »

U.S. Liquefied Natural Gas Exports Just Quadrupled
Last year Gazprom, Russia’s state-owned natural gas company, provided
some 40 percent of Europe’s gas needs. Gazprom produced 16.6 trillion
cubic feet of gas.

By comparison, America produced almost 27 trillion cubic feet of natural gas
in 2017 and, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, is on
track to produce 43 trillion cubic feet of natural gas by 2050.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckdevore/2018/05/14/u-s-liquefied-natural-gas-exports-just-quadrupled-its-good-for-the-economy-national-security/#481f27c127b5

Quite pleased to be a part of this industry; natural gas will continue to play a major role in meeting our nation's energy needs for at least the next 75 − 100 years.

Somewhere I read that the United States is now the largest producer (and I guess consumer) of petroleum products in the world. I want to say the Wall Street Journal produced the article.

There are numerous articles of the United States shipping gas (LNG) via ship to Europe but there are so many hazards and issues that I doubt this will happen any time soon.
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Offline Lord of the Dance

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Re: Nord Stream 2 construction begins in German waters
« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2018, 12:35:09 PM »
There are numerous articles of the United States shipping gas (LNG) via ship to Europe but there are so many hazards and issues that I doubt this will happen any time soon.[/font][/size]

I'm by no means a shipping expert, but I would concur with you on that point; I think it's just too difficult to ship (safely) within the confines of economic practicality.
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Offline Wiz

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Re: Nord Stream 2 construction begins in German waters
« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2018, 04:30:11 PM »

The US cannot supply LNG, even today, but if and when the cost will be very expensive comparing with the Gas that Russia supply to Germany and other countries.

U.S. Liquefied Natural Gas Exports Just Quadrupled
Last year Gazprom, Russia’s state-owned natural gas company, provided
some 40 percent of Europe’s gas needs. Gazprom produced 16.6 trillion
cubic feet of gas.

By comparison, America produced almost 27 trillion cubic feet of natural gas
in 2017 and, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, is on
track to produce 43 trillion cubic feet of natural gas by 2050.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckdevore/2018/05/14/u-s-liquefied-natural-gas-exports-just-quadrupled-its-good-for-the-economy-national-security/#481f27c127b5

Billy

I read carefully the article you suggested and to be honest it only talks about Gas production to support the USA energy need who now modify the old oil station to use Gas.

It is clear the USA have only 1 port to export LNG :

"There were no LNG export terminals in the U.S. prior to 2016. In fact, America’s first LNG export terminal, Cheniere Energy’s Sabine Pass facility in Louisiana, was originally built as an LNG import terminal in 2008 when experts thought the U.S. was facing a severe national gas shortage. Fracking changed all that, with the price of natural gas at the Henry Hub declining 70 percent in inflation adjusted terms from 2008 to 2017."

This comment reveals the real picture regarding the USA EXPORT CAPABILITY.

"The value of U.S. LNG exports will be almost $5 billion this year, likely more than doubling to $12 billion in 2019, or about 2 percent of 2017’s trade deficit of $566 billion."

Your Trade Deficit figure tells all we need to know.

May I remind you that Russia last Year exported only to Germany 31.5 Billion Euros for its gass requirements and when the Nord 2 Stream pipeline finish this number will double and they don't use LNG boats and ports but a pipe Line, so the cost will always be cheaper than LNG Exports from the US..

From 28 EU Nation the US only managed to convince only Poland and Lithuania!

"A growing share of American LNG exports are expected to go to Europe as EU member states look to diversify from their growing dependence on Russian gas. NATO members Poland and Lithuania in particular have built LNG import terminals to offset their reliance on Russian fuel amidst ongoing unease over Russia’s return to territorially expansionist policies."

TRUMP simply was black mailing the NATO members and looks that he failed.

PS: I remember last year reading at Zero Hege Site that these Fracking companies were financed with junk ponds and many of then went out of business.
Now it's obvious the US changed it's energy policy and modify it Oil Generating factories of electricity to Gas.

So Trump left the Paris climate accord for that reason.

 :coffeeread:

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Re: Nord Stream 2 construction begins in German waters
« Reply #20 on: September 02, 2018, 06:30:40 PM »
Customers in Lithuania had to be forced to use LNG. Some large gas users threatened to leave the country. I have not been keeping up with story so I don't know the outcome for those buyers, my guess is that they got subsidies because losing those enterprises would have been calamitous for the country. The gas was/is very expensive and imported for political and, it has been suggested, corrupt reasons. There's no economic basis for lng imports. Worse yet, the supplies to Lithuania through their new terminal were actually from Norway.

Wiz is correct about the inability of the United States to export LNG. As i recall, at least some gas exports from the United States were actually Russian gas resold. 

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Re: Nord Stream 2 construction begins in German waters
« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2018, 07:30:50 PM »
This is a proposed West Coast LNG terminal on the Oregon Coast. It will likely be several years until it gets approved and built if it gets approved.


http://jordancovelng.com/
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Re: Nord Stream 2 construction begins in German waters
« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2018, 07:32:29 PM »
Liquid Natural Gas, (LNG), is a bit more complicated than what I upthread indicated.

Most likely Lithuania had little choice but use LNG.

It seems the United States is exporting LNG, but mostly Westward. It seems one of the primary exports ports is Cove Point, in Maryland. This though is a challenging location. I suspect someone is going to do have to serious research to understand the issue and dynamics.

My guess for US exports it depends on the price over the medium term to long term.
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Re: Nord Stream 2 construction begins in German waters
« Reply #23 on: September 02, 2018, 08:09:39 PM »
Liquid Natural Gas, (LNG), is a bit more complicated than what I upthread indicated.

Most likely Lithuania had little choice but use LNG.

It seems the United States is exporting LNG, but mostly Westward. It seems one of the primary exports ports is Cove Point, in Maryland. This though is a challenging location. I suspect someone is going to do have to serious research to understand the issue and dynamics.

My guess for US exports it depends on the price over the medium term to long term.


Really? That's surprising to me... never would've guessed!

Here's a Wiki article on LNG carriers. I've never even seen one of these ships before.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LNG_carrier
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Re: Nord Stream 2 construction begins in German waters
« Reply #24 on: September 03, 2018, 01:53:38 AM »
Liquid Natural Gas, (LNG), is a bit more complicated than what I upthread indicated.

Most likely Lithuania had little choice but use LNG.

It seems the United States is exporting LNG, but mostly Westward. It seems one of the primary exports ports is Cove Point, in Maryland. This though is a challenging location. I suspect someone is going to do have to serious research to understand the issue and dynamics.

My guess for US exports it depends on the price over the medium term to long term.


Really? That's surprising to me... never would've guessed!

Here's a Wiki article on LNG carriers. I've never even seen one of these ships before.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LNG_carrier

Two years ago, I saw one when I was heading south. Like most modern commercial vessels they are fast. I had no clue what it was, thought it was a sort of grain vessel. They are odd looking. Moving LNG is not so much the problem, but loading and unloading is an issue.

Somewhere I recall there was an 'incident' 100 plus dead ashore. Ports such as Le Havre and Rotterdam do not want to see them. I suspect the loading/unloading terminuses will be offshore.

EDIT: The accident occurred in Algeria and there were some 27 dead, earlier there was an accident in The United States with over 100 dead. But the cause was clear.

Here is a Wiki link > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquefied_natural_gas <
“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot


 

 

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