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Author Topic: Life in Russia - Locals and Visitors Discuss  (Read 8311 times)

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Online Confederate

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Life in Russia - Locals and Visitors Discuss
« on: July 30, 2018, 08:12:24 PM »
Mod note: This topic was spun off from the introduction topic.

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    Also this forum is more pro-russian and the other more pro-ukrainian     

Can you define "pro-russian" please? I am asking because there are many Russians with different (political/world) views. For instance, a Muslim living in Dagestan may have a rather different worldview than an atheist living in Saint Petersburg and than an Orthodox Christian living in Vladivostok (all the three are Russians - россияне). Most Russians actually don't have any views at all, all they seem to crave is to consume, to enjoy life and to propagate (I am not saying it is bad, I am just sharing an observation with you).
Answering to the thread question - I found this forum a long time ago, was reading it a lot but was too shy to join.:)

The owner tends to believe that pro Putin is the same as pro Russian; no matter if the outcome of certain actions seem to harm Russia.  :biggrin:

Hope this helps and welcome.

Offline Seasoned

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Re: Life in Russia - Locals and Visitors Discuss
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2018, 09:30:20 PM »
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      Hope this helps and welcome.     

      I see. Well, the near future may (I actually think it surely will) bring a lot of nasty surprises to the staunch supporters of Putin. It all begins with the economy. The ruble crashed quite recently, it will surely crash again. The prices for some basic products have doubled during the last 2-3 years, the salaries are not catching up at all. A serious hint of the things to come - the stock price of the RF groceries giants like Magnit - one share cost well over 10K rubles just a year ago, right now it is hovering around 4K, despite all the cash that hundreds of thousands of foreign football fans have just left in the country, and will surely go lower. There are hundreds of clear-cut macro and micro indicators that the economy is dilapidating and going to the dogs, that it may actually be beyond repair if the things continue at the present pace. Not sure why I should welcome all this as a Russian. Besides, I am not stupid enough to welcome the recent raise of petrol prices and of the pension age and of VAT.
      All this in exchange for what? For the perceived grandeur I am told about on tv daily? I heard all this before the collapse of the USSR, this and much more. For a chance to see some newly painted rusty Soviet era war ships tumbling and colliding with bridges (ref.:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-JmGQE6sEY) in the Neva river? I saw them brand new and going straight when I was a child, I wasn't impressed much even back then.
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Offline IvanMNG

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Re: Life in Russia - Locals and Visitors Discuss
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2018, 03:33:55 AM »
Yeah, I noticed that the other Forum had a women theme. Although not so much dating but more shipping in a foreign bride to the US. Didn't know what to contribute to that so I didn't sign up so far, ha.


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Re: Life in Russia - Locals and Visitors Discuss
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2018, 04:05:48 AM »
Quote
      Hope this helps and welcome.     

      I see. Well, the near future may (I actually think it surely will) bring a lot of nasty surprises to the staunch supporters of Putin. It all begins with the economy. The ruble crashed quite recently, it will surely crash again. The prices for some basic products have doubled during the last 2-3 years, the salaries are not catching up at all. A serious hint of the things to come - the stock price of the RF groceries giants like Magnit - one share cost well over 10K rubles just a year ago, right now it is hovering around 4K, despite all the cash that hundreds of thousands of foreign football fans have just left in the country, and will surely go lower. There are hundreds of clear-cut macro and micro indicators that the economy is dilapidating and going to the dogs, that it may actually be beyond repair if the things continue at the present pace. Not sure why I should welcome all this as a Russian. Besides, I am not stupid enough to welcome the recent raise of petrol prices and of the pension age and of VAT.
      All this in exchange for what? For the perceived grandeur I am told about on tv daily? I heard all this before the collapse of the USSR, this and much more. For a chance to see some newly painted rusty Soviet era war ships tumbling and colliding with bridges (ref.:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-JmGQE6sEY) in the Neva river? I saw them brand new and going straight when I was a child, I wasn't impressed much even back then.

If the scenario that you paint is correct and there are some who present who will vehemently deny this reality; than the end of Putin will follow shortly. My opinion is the regime in the Kremlin is only there because of the wealthy 'businessmen' surrounding him. But his support is from the middle class which I understand is barely hanging on.
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Re: Life in Russia - Locals and Visitors Discuss
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2018, 06:28:43 AM »
Quote
   But his support is from the middle class which I understand is barely hanging on.           

The middle class barely exists, I would say. Doubt many middle class entrepreneurs really support him, especially those who work hard rather than pull strings and sponge off nepotism and corruption/embezzlement schemes. His foundation is his buddy oligarchs like Timchenko and Rotenberg and Miller and Sechin, plus Zolotov in the National Guard and Shoigu in the military. That's not a little, but it is not a whole lot either. I wonder what the mostly tacit population will say when the economic squeeze intensifies significantly. All it may take actually is another nosedive of the oil prices from 70 back to 30. The initial social contract was their silence and obedience in exchange for improved life conditions. This contract seems to have been violated. Never sign a contract with blood, I would say...
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Re: Life in Russia - Locals and Visitors Discuss
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2018, 12:33:20 PM »
Quote
  I think a correct way to explain the difference of a pro-Russian as opposed to pro-Ukraine view point is is to state a Kremlin centric standpoint as opposed to a Ukraine Western leaning standpoint.         

Guess it is more clear now, he should have said "pro-kremlin" instead of "pro-russian", then I would not have any questions.
With pro-Russian I don't mean personally more pro-kremlin, but more like, if it rains in New-York its probable putin didn't do it.

Just like with the skripal case, what has Russia got to gain with such weird stuff. It doesn't make sense at all.

However, things that the kremlin do have to answer for, I am all for a good crucifixion just like I hold other gov'ts responsible for their failings.
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Re: Life in Russia - Locals and Visitors Discuss
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2018, 01:01:27 PM »
I wonder if Seasoned would prefer things as they were BP?
Perhaps he doesn't remember that when Putin was first elected the country was on course for disintegration and the business of selling women was brides that he is a part of sprang from the not unrealistic idea that it was safer and better for young women to leave the country as brides of middle aged foreign guys than to remain in Russia.

I WAS there, I DO remember and I am very happy that the social, economic and political situation in the Russian Federation is vastly improved, but not yet perfect. It is hard to see how either a business as usual, or alternative leadership (given the candidates for the job) could have done better than with Putin and his absolute focus upon rebuilding the sovereignty of what was a dissolving state and country.

On the other hand, perhaps, given his business interests, Seasoned would prefer to see things back as they were in the late 90's and early 00's. As a relatively well to do foreigner in Russia one could certainly see some advantages to those days and a seller of brides stood to make much more money then than now. On the other hand, I am happy to see that Russia is rebuilding and refinding its place in the world.
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Offline Seasoned

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Re: Life in Russia - Locals and Visitors Discuss
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2018, 01:22:02 PM »
 
Quote
       I WAS there, I DO remember and I am very happy that the social, economic and political situation in the Russian Federation is vastly improved, but not yet perfect. It is hard to see how either a business as usual, or alternative leadership (given the candidates for the job) could have done better than with Putin and his absolute focus upon rebuilding the sovereignty of what was a dissolving state and country.

On the other hand, perhaps, given his business interests, Seasoned would prefer to see things back as they were in the late 90's and early 00's. As a relatively well to do foreigner in Russia one could certainly see some advantages to those days and a seller of brides stood to make much more money then than now. On the other hand, I am happy to see that Russia is rebuilding and refinding its place in the world.             

        I wrote it on the other thread already - I saw thousands of young ladies eager to meet foreign men during the World Cup, nothing has changed since the 90ies in this respect, my site is extremely popular among the Russian ladies, I actually need to find more men to satisfy the frantically increasing demand among the Russian females. Read Ivan's blog for inspiration if you don't trust me - all is easy-peasy in Moscow in this respect even now, in Moscow - the richest Russian city... So, no, I absolutely have no vested interest, I am just sharing my observations. You view the situation as a status quo, I view it as dynamically changing (again, check out Magnit stock price, can give you many examples like this).
        My personal salary was actually way higher under Yeltsin in the 90ies than under Putin, I could afford way more. The salary, when I was working for someone else. Now I am working only for myself. Putin just got lucky with exorbitantly high oil and gas prices during many years, that's all, but this luck seems to be running out. As to the crime rates, I don't see them diminishing. It is true that the federal media are hushing up many things though.
What vast improvement of the social and economic situation are you talking about? Even according to the official stats the number of those living below the poverty line (it is like 120 dollars in Russia) has increased by 4 million people recently and is 24 million people. In reality I think this number is closer to 30-40 million people, out of 140 million. I see people rummaging in garbage containers hoping to find food or empty bottles every day - every time I take a smoke on the balcony.
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Re: Life in Russia - Locals and Visitors Discuss
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2018, 01:38:40 PM »
Quote
       I WAS there, I DO remember and I am very happy that the social, economic and political situation in the Russian Federation is vastly improved, but not yet perfect. It is hard to see how either a business as usual, or alternative leadership (given the candidates for the job) could have done better than with Putin and his absolute focus upon rebuilding the sovereignty of what was a dissolving state and country.

On the other hand, perhaps, given his business interests, Seasoned would prefer to see things back as they were in the late 90's and early 00's. As a relatively well to do foreigner in Russia one could certainly see some advantages to those days and a seller of brides stood to make much more money then than now. On the other hand, I am happy to see that Russia is rebuilding and refinding its place in the world.             

        I wrote it on the other thread already - I saw thousands of young ladies eager to meet foreign men during the World Cup, nothing has changed since the 90ies in this respect, my site is extremely popular among the Russian ladies, I actually need to find more men to satisfy the frantically increasing demand among the Russian females.
        My personal salary was actually way higher under Yeltsin in the 90ies than under Putin, I could afford way more. The salary, when I was working for someone else. Now I am working only for myself. Putin just got lucky with exorbitantly high oil and gas prices during many years, that's all, but this luck seems to be running out. As to the crime rates, I don't see them diminishing. It is true that the federal media are hushing up many things though.
What vast improvement of the social and economic situation are you talking about? Even according to the official stats the number of those living below the poverty line (it is like 120 dollars in Russia) has increased by 4 million people recently and is 24 million people. In reality I think this number is closer to 30-40 million people, out of 140 million. I see people rummaging in garbage containers hoping to find food or empty bottles every day - every time I take a smoke on the balcony.

Poverty is in every country.. try visiting some areas of London as for the state pension its no better deal for the old folk in the uk today compared to Russia in real terms..

Of course much depends on who you associate with, Seasoned if you spend most of your life in the little bar besides your house which is full of drunkards evening after evening drinking vodka until you can't stand up, you know the bar where every few months one of the regulars dies from some problem , where every person has just two teeth in their moth and has had the same clothes on for 2 months of course you will see poverty..

I have no such friends in Russia most youngsters seem to be doing very well for themselves if they work hard at it. My developer earns more than 200,000 rules a month has a brand new apartment, car and all that most Westerners have, so do many others. But of course they will not be found down the local bar full of alcoholics..

Do any other expats have Russian friends living in poverty?





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Offline Manny

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Re: Life in Russia - Locals and Visitors Discuss
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2018, 01:59:34 PM »
The owner tends to believe that pro Putin is the same as pro Russian; no matter if the outcome of certain actions seem to harm Russia.  :biggrin:

Hope this helps and welcome.

The owner can speak for himself, thanks.  :nod:

Yeah, I noticed that the other Forum had a women theme. Although not so much dating but more shipping in a foreign bride to the US. Didn't know what to contribute to that so I didn't sign up so far, ha.

There were once many forums on the subject of dating/marrying FSU women; they all died out slowly (we bought one of them) and only two of any note remain (here and there). The odd moribund one still exists out there in cyberspace. As the so-called mail-order-bride industry contracted because western (mostly American) men got poorer, we adapted to broaden the topics of discussion to include politics. Opinion differs as to the success of that strategy, but the two forums are roughly the same size; we are slightly larger on stats. Inhabitants and their world view tends to differ between the two though, so people gravitate to where they feel most comfortable. And some people inhabit both sites.

The middle class barely exists, I would say.

I would suggest the middle class in Russia has expanded many fold the last few years.

I see people rummaging in garbage containers hoping to find food or empty bottles every day - 

If you want to find that, you'll find it in any EU country, and across the US and the UK if you mingle among the poor.

Do any other expats have Russian friends living in poverty?

We know a few folks in Russia who are a bit skint, but for reasons. The odd woman who kicked out her husband who never found a better bloke (the blokes all traded up happily). A few old folk who haven't kids to look after them financially. A few guys who were not successful in business because they aren't very good at it.

I apologise.
And so he should.........

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Re: Life in Russia - Locals and Visitors Discuss
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2018, 03:35:27 PM »
Quote
    If you want to find that, you'll find it in any EU country, and across the US and the UK if you mingle among the poor.         


I agree, that's why we need to consider and to compare only the statistics (I will go even with the official Russian stats, though they lie a lot), not our friends, emotions or assumptions. Putin's Russia, in economic terms, can be compared only with such third world countries as Brazil and with such African countries as Nigeria (almost every merchandise is made abroad, tell me the name of a Russia-made computer, television set, cell phone, washing machine, etc. I remember Yota-phone (made in China) but its sales didn't even pick up in earnest). About the same level of economic development and quality of life, despite a lot of hot air on the Russian federal tv channels, parades and so forth. And the situation is not static, I think we will see a lot of negative developments this year, even within the coming 2-3 months.


Quote
     Poverty is in every country.. try visiting some areas of London as for the state pension its no better deal for the old folk in the uk today compared to Russia in real terms..

Of course much depends on who you associate with, Seasoned if you spend most of your life in the little bar besides your house which is full of drunkards evening after evening drinking vodka until you can't stand up, you know the bar where every few months one of the regulars dies from some problem , where every person has just two teeth in their moth and has had the same clothes on for 2 months of course you will see poverty..

I have no such friends in Russia most youngsters seem to be doing very well for themselves if they work hard at it. My developer earns more than 200,000 rules a month has a brand new apartment, car and all that most Westerners have, so do many others. But of course they will not be found down the local bar full of alcoholics..

Do any other expats have Russian friends living in poverty?           

         Well, you might realize that I am not that poor now and that I don't spend much time in that bar. I am simply too Jewish and too smart to be poor, in any country. (joking):)
        You need to consider statistics, not bars or friends. I also have rich acquaintances, one of them owns a big business (elite apartments rent, well, it used to be big, not big at all now), his car costs 3 million rubles yet he still owes me 5K rubles he borrowed for food and gas because his business has crashed in SPb. But he is no indicator, by and large. The official Russian statistics, maximum poverty level for the last six years (it is for the end of 2017, but it has only gotten worse since then): https://www.finanz.ru/novosti/lichnyye-finansy/uroven-bednosti-v-rossii-dostig-maksimuma-za-6-let-1011620034
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Offline Manny

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Re: Life in Russia - Locals and Visitors Discuss
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2018, 03:58:40 PM »
tell me the name of a Russian-made computer, television set, cell phone, washing machine, etc.).

There are also no British, Belgian, Bulgarian, Estonian or Danish ones of these any more (or never were).

Your definition is too narrow. As such you are denigrating what notable Russian industry there is.

Doesn't the International Space Station use Russian rockets:8)

The VAZ (Avtovaz/Lada) factory (in my wife's hometown of Togliatti) is the largest car manufacturer in Russia and one of the largest in the world, with over 140 km of production lines. The three districts of Togliatti wouldn't exist without Avtovaz.

You seem to be obsessing about the plight of the poorest, and even denying the middle class exists. Just because *YOU* don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. In this regard there are many similarities between China and Russia. This cropped up with members here when I went to China; my reply from then is >>here<<.
I apologise.
And so he should.........

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Re: Life in Russia - Locals and Visitors Discuss
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2018, 04:12:33 PM »
Some statistics indicate that over 35 thousand plants have been closed in Russia since 2005. Some new have been opened, but they can be counted in hundreds rather than thousands and many of them are just branches of foreign enterprises.
Togliatti would not be successful in any way without Renault, it is basically a Renault venue now. I owned a Lada for several years in the past, it was a cool survival experience, but it was total sh't as a car. Putin is still riding in a Mercedes, the rumors are he has abandoned even the lame Kortezh project. I cannot imagine Merkel or Trump riding in a Lada, can you? Enough said for the so-called grandeur.
You would like to discuss the space? Ok, fine, let's do it. Russia's share in the global commercial launches is only 2% now - https://www.finanz.ru/novosti/aktsii/dolya-rossii-na-rynke-kosmicheskikh-puskov-rukhnula-do-2percent-1001790025
They have abandoned the Vostochny space port after a number of failures as I understand: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-space-programme-collapse-soyuz-2-1b-rocket-cosmodrome-launch-failure-latest-news-a8094856.html
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Quote
   and even denying the middle class exists. Just because *YOU* don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.         

I am not denying it exists, I am saying it is very small. And found mainly in 3-4 big cities. You go from Moscow like 200 km (I worked in Novomoskovsk, Tula region, for some time) and it looks like WW-II has never ended there - old houses that are falling apart, etc. Even in the city where I live we still have barracks built by German prisoners in 1946-1948 and thousands of people still live in those (5 minutes drive from my area).
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Re: Life in Russia - Locals and Visitors Discuss
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2018, 05:02:12 PM »
Some statistics indicate that over 35 thousand plants have been closed in Russia since 2005. Some new have been opened, but they can be counted in hundreds rather than thousands and many of them are just branches of foreign enterprises.
Togliatti would not be successful in any way without Renault, it is basically a Renault venue now. I owned a Lada for several years in the past, it was a cool survival experience, but it was total sh't as a car. Putin is still riding in a Mercedes, the rumors are he has abandoned even the lame Kortezh project. I cannot imagine Merkel or Trump riding in a Lada, can you? Enough said for the so-called grandeur.
You would like to discuss the space? Ok, fine, let's do it. Russia's share in the global commercial launches is only 2% now - https://www.finanz.ru/novosti/aktsii/dolya-rossii-na-rynke-kosmicheskikh-puskov-rukhnula-do-2percent-1001790025
They have abandoned the Vostochny space port after a number of failures as I understand: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-space-programme-collapse-soyuz-2-1b-rocket-cosmodrome-launch-failure-latest-news-a8094856.html
https://ru.krymr.com/a/28884350.html

Quote
   and even denying the middle class exists. Just because *YOU* don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.         

I am not denying it exists, I am saying it is very small. And found mainly in 3-4 big cities. You go from Moscow like 200 km (I worked in Novomoskovsk, Tula region, for some time) and it looks like WW-II has never ended there - old houses that are falling apart, etc. Even in the city where I live we still have barracks built by German prisoners in 1946-1948 and thousands of people still live in those (5 minutes drive from my area).

Your going on about the same old crap that you have been moaning about  in just about every other forum..anti Putin all your life..

The Soviet Union is finished for good!! The good old days when guys like you could do nothing BUT still be equal to everyone else are over.. The free apartment ain't coming your way any day soon.. neither is the free ride in life..

I would suggest you move to North Korea.. communism still exists there , so it means you get your free apartment but better than that you can still chase all the women about and have just as  good chance catching a few of them.. I mean all guys are pretty well equal so no competition.. :laugh:

I support no government anywhere, ever, never. No institution, No religion!!

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Re: Life in Russia - Locals and Visitors Discuss
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2018, 05:06:15 PM »
Quote
“We have to proceed not from emotions, but from the real assessment of economic conditions and prospects of its development and (the development of) the social sphere,”

When you make people work longer in their older years, they won't go quietly.   :chuckle:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-protests/protesters-chant-anti-putin-slogans-at-moscow-rally-against-retirement-age-plan-idUSKBN1KJ0HJ