Historic Singapore Summit

[Contrarian]

President Trump becomes the first US President in history to meet face to face with the North Korean leader. It will be very interesting to see if anything of substance can be accomplished.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/06/10/politics/donald-trump-arrival-singapore-summit/index.html

[Contrarian]

Latest news on this meeting.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/politics/live-news/trump-kim-jong-un-meeting-summit/index.html

[andrewfi]

Most of the substantive stuff, if anything, will have been negotiated before the meeting. I understand that the closing document will have been written before today.

So this is about two big dogs sniffing each other's arses. Of course, as with the G7 meetings, Trump might choose to set aside that document later.

I don't expect to hear any great concession from Kim, the Koreans have already made some significant gestures so that might limit the upside for post-summit gestures. I am curious about what the South Korean government says and does next in concert with the North Korean government.

[dcguyusa]

So this is about two big dogs sniffing each other's arses.

When I left the house today, I looked up to the roof of the house next door.  A pair of ravens were apparently having a "close encounter" as one of them (apparently a male) mounted himself on top of another (apparently a female).  As this was occurring, a loud repeating tapping noise came from their direction (possibly the male orgasm sounds during mating).

This must be a sign.   

[Contrarian]

Most of the substantive stuff, if anything, will have been negotiated before the meeting. I understand that the closing document will have been written before today.

So this is about two big dogs sniffing each other's arses. Of course, as with the G7 meetings, Trump might choose to set aside that document later.

I don't expect to hear any great concession from Kim, the Koreans have already made some significant gestures so that might limit the upside for post-summit gestures. I am curious about what the South Korean government says and does next in concert with the North Korean government.

So they’ve shaken hands and now they’re behind closed doors. It’ll be interesting to see if Kim Jong manages to rope-a-dope and deceive Trump like his father managed to deceive Bill Clinton.

Over all I agree with your analysis. Both President Trump and Kim Jong will try to maneuver and claim victory regardless of what happens.

I think President Trump should be commended for being bold enough to have such a meeting in the first place.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/06/11/politics/trump-kim-summit-singapore/index.html

[andrewfi]

Things seem to have gone OK between the two guys.

Kim was overheard saying to Trump that what was happening was like being in a fantasy or science fiction movie. Trump has told a press conference that the big war games in South Korea are going to end and that's a good first step because it was pissing off the Koreans mightily.

I reckon that the Koreas will continue steps to end the war and start moving toward reunification. When the war ends as part of the process of denuclearisation the U.S. will be pressured into ending their military occupation of the southern part of the country.

[Contrarian]

Things seem to have gone OK between the two guys.

Kim was overheard saying to Trump that what was happening was like being in a fantasy or science fiction movie. Trump has told a press conference that the big war games in South Korea are going to end and that's a good first step because it was pissing off the Koreans mightily.

I reckon that the Koreas will continue steps to end the war and start moving toward reunification. When the war ends as part of the process of denuclearisation the U.S. will be pressured into ending their military occupation of the southern part of the country.

Ending the joint US/South Korean War games is a very big step for peace right there.

I don’t really believe Kim Jong-Un intends to really completely denuclearize so we’ll see what happens then.

[andrewfi]

Denuclearisation is aspirational, not actionable. It certainly will not happen until the U.S. military occupation of the peninsula ends with a federation of North and South Korea. If the DPRK feels they can do without the military infrastructure required to support a significant nuclear deterrent then they will go for it because the cost and other resource burdens are certainly holding back the development of the country. That's the same reason why the Russians have announced reductions in military spending; they have gotten what they need in place to address external threats and so they can now divert some resources to social and economic development.

[Contrarian]

So they signed an agreement short on substance. Reasons for N. Korea not to denuclearize: Libya and Ukraine come to mind.

At least the chance for war is very low at this point. Compared to a few months ago that’s a victory right there.

[B.B.]

So here's tomorrow's headline: "GOP President Makes Peace Overtures Toward Long Standing Enemy; Liberals OUTRAGED!"  

What did Trump give up?  Nothing.  He agreed to halt war games that the US conducts each year with SoKo - the wrapped up last month so he has the better part of a year to go back to the stick if the NoKos don't respond to the carrot. 

He gave them nothing.

Bill Clinton, OTOH, via his bagman Jimmy "The Original Miserable Failure" Carter, gave the NoKos $5 BILLION and two nuclear reactors, so you tell me, who is the dumb bell?

Either the NoKos move forward, or we go back to "Maximum Sanctions".  Trump made something out of nothing and if it doesn't work out, we're no worse off than we were before.

B/B

[Manny]

If Kim gives up his nukes the Yanks will move in, invade and kill him as they did with Gadaffi. Unless China or Russia stops them as its their backyard.

As we all know, the US is not to be trusted. The trail of devastation and the odd killed leader across Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya we all know about. Interventions in Ukraine and Syria and dozens of other places we also know about.

Trump may even have good intent, but he's a pensioner and will soon be gone. Next warmonger in the White House might well tear up Trump's deal and invade them again.

Kim just needs to make nice noises, talk about it some and get those sanctions lifted and the US out of the region. It's a chess game.........

[Lord of the Dance]

Trump may even have good intent, but he's a pensioner and will soon be gone.

I've heard the term 'pensioner' used before on this forum... does this mean 'older person?'

[AvHdB]

Trump may even have good intent, but he's a pensioner and will soon be gone.

I've heard the term 'pensioner' used before on this forum... does this mean 'older person?'

It is an expression used in the UK to refer to some one retired. 'He is living on his pension'.

[Lord of the Dance]

Trump may even have good intent, but he's a pensioner and will soon be gone.

I've heard the term 'pensioner' used before on this forum... does this mean 'older person?'

It is an expression used in the UK to refer to some one retired. 'He is living on his pension'.

Ah-ha, makes sense. Thanks for the explanation Av.

[Contrarian]

If Kim gives up his nukes the Yanks will move in, invade and kill him as they did with Gadaffi. Unless China or Russia stops them as its their backyard.

As we all know, the US is not to be trusted. The trail of devastation and the odd killed leader across Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya we all know about. Interventions in Ukraine and Syria and dozens of other places we also know about.

Trump may even have good intent, but he's a pensioner and will soon be gone. Next warmonger in the White House might well tear up Trump's deal and invade them again.

Kim just needs to make nice noises, talk about it some and get those sanctions lifted and the US out of the region. It's a chess game.........

North Korea is not Iraq or Libya and the top US military commanders know this. Any attempt to invade N. Korea would result in massive civilian casualties in Soul to begin with and then a bloodbath on both sides.  This is all hyperbole. At the most things will go back to square one.

Some US commanders are upset Trump mentioned bringing home US troops. Unlikely. They will convince Trump to leave them there, more than likely.

Trump is not a pensioner yet, he will probably win in 2020 so you’ve got 6 more years of him; get used to it.

[AvHdB]

As I recall Andrew said baby steps. It is ongoing process and will take time. Will it end in a positive agreement, I am not sure. There are the following players.

Japan and South Korea. They desire not only a removal of nuclear weapons but also chemical and biological weapons. There is no doubt that North Korea has all these weapons in there arsenal.

China, they would like to advance its power and influence in the region and worldwide. It would not surprise me to learn that China 'brokered' this agreement in advance.

The United States would like to have security and in Trump's view a draw down of the costs associated with the adventures (failures) of prior Presidents.

[Contrarian]

So here's tomorrow's headline: "GOP President Makes Peace Overtures Toward Long Standing Enemy; Liberals OUTRAGED!"  

What did Trump give up?  Nothing.  He agreed to halt war games that the US conducts each year with SoKo - the wrapped up last month so he has the better part of a year to go back to the stick if the NoKos don't respond to the carrot. 

He gave them nothing.

Bill Clinton, OTOH, via his bagman Jimmy "The Original Miserable Failure" Carter, gave the NoKos $5 BILLION and two nuclear reactors, so you tell me, who is the dumb bell?

Either the NoKos move forward, or we go back to "Maximum Sanctions".  Trump made something out of nothing and if it doesn't work out, we're no worse off than we were before.

B/B

Chicken Little aka Chuck Schumer was whining about the summit today in Congress. Meanwhile this is the most substantive article I’ve seen on the summit as of yet.

He (Pompeo) also warned that the US would resume “war games” with South Korea, which Mr Trump this week confirmed would be halted, if the North stops negotiating in good faith.

Speaking in South Korea, where he discussed the outcome of the summit, Mr Pompeo on Wednesday said: "Major disarmament... We're hopeful that we can achieve that in the two and half years."


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.standard.co.uk/news/world/us-wants-major-disarmament-of-north-korea-by-2020-before-donald-trumps-first-term-comes-to-an-end-a3862561.html%3famp

[AvHdB]

Bear in mind there is nothing about disarming and removing weapons of mass destruction in this understanding. Each party has a goal. How they reach the most comfortable compromise is the 'dance.' Game on!

Regarding the comments of C. Schumer he seems to be some menopausal drama queen.

[Contrarian]

Bear in mind there is nothing about disarming and removing weapons of mass destruction in this understanding. Each party has a goal. How they reach the most comfortable compromise is the 'dance.' Game on!

Regarding the comments of C. Schumer he seems to be some menopausal drama queen.

Word! 

[Contrarian]

Bear in mind there is nothing about disarming and removing weapons of mass destruction in this understanding. Each party has a goal. How they reach the most comfortable compromise is the 'dance.' Game on!

Regarding the comments of C. Schumer he seems to be some menopausal drama queen.

Word! 

Speaking of which where has Ste been lately?

I miss his looney posts about President Trump. 

[AvHdB]

Bear in mind there is nothing about disarming and removing weapons of mass destruction in this understanding. Each party has a goal. How they reach the most comfortable compromise is the 'dance.' Game on!

Regarding the comments of C. Schumer he seems to be some menopausal drama queen.

Word! 

Speaking of which where has Ste been lately?

I miss his looney posts about President Trump. 

The posts that I miss are those of Cuffy.