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Author Topic: Historic Singapore Summit  (Read 429 times)

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Online Confederate

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Historic Singapore Summit
« on: June 10, 2018, 10:32:40 AM »
President Trump becomes the first US President in history to meet face to face with the North Korean leader. It will be very interesting to see if anything of substance can be accomplished.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/06/10/politics/donald-trump-arrival-singapore-summit/index.html

Online Confederate

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Re: Historic Singapore Summit
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2018, 12:54:23 PM »

Online andrewfi

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Re: Historic Singapore Summit
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2018, 03:39:02 PM »
Most of the substantive stuff, if anything, will have been negotiated before the meeting. I understand that the closing document will have been written before today.

So this is about two big dogs sniffing each other's arses. Of course, as with the G7 meetings, Trump might choose to set aside that document later.

I don't expect to hear any great concession from Kim, the Koreans have already made some significant gestures so that might limit the upside for post-summit gestures. I am curious about what the South Korean government says and does next in concert with the North Korean government.

"For what else is the life of man but a kind of play in which men in various costumes perform until the director motions them offstage?" -Erasmus


Online dcguyusa

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Re: Historic Singapore Summit
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2018, 05:56:05 PM »
Quote
So this is about two big dogs sniffing each other's arses.

When I left the house today, I looked up to the roof of the house next door.  A pair of ravens were apparently having a "close encounter" as one of them (apparently a male) mounted himself on top of another (apparently a female).  As this was occurring, a loud repeating tapping noise came from their direction (possibly the male orgasm sounds during mating).

This must be a sign.   :evilgrin0002: :chuckle:

Online Confederate

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Re: Historic Singapore Summit
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2018, 08:48:02 PM »
Most of the substantive stuff, if anything, will have been negotiated before the meeting. I understand that the closing document will have been written before today.

So this is about two big dogs sniffing each other's arses. Of course, as with the G7 meetings, Trump might choose to set aside that document later.

I don't expect to hear any great concession from Kim, the Koreans have already made some significant gestures so that might limit the upside for post-summit gestures. I am curious about what the South Korean government says and does next in concert with the North Korean government.

So they’ve shaken hands and now they’re behind closed doors. It’ll be interesting to see if Kim Jong manages to rope-a-dope and deceive Trump like his father managed to deceive Bill Clinton.

Over all I agree with your analysis. Both President Trump and Kim Jong will try to maneuver and claim victory regardless of what happens.

I think President Trump should be commended for being bold enough to have such a meeting in the first place.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/06/11/politics/trump-kim-summit-singapore/index.html

Online andrewfi

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Re: Historic Singapore Summit
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2018, 03:20:34 AM »
Things seem to have gone OK between the two guys.

Kim was overheard saying to Trump that what was happening was like being in a fantasy or science fiction movie. Trump has told a press conference that the big war games in South Korea are going to end and that's a good first step because it was pissing off the Koreans mightily.

I reckon that the Koreas will continue steps to end the war and start moving toward reunification. When the war ends as part of the process of denuclearisation the U.S. will be pressured into ending their military occupation of the southern part of the country.

"For what else is the life of man but a kind of play in which men in various costumes perform until the director motions them offstage?" -Erasmus

Online Confederate

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Re: Historic Singapore Summit
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2018, 08:17:34 AM »
Things seem to have gone OK between the two guys.

Kim was overheard saying to Trump that what was happening was like being in a fantasy or science fiction movie. Trump has told a press conference that the big war games in South Korea are going to end and that's a good first step because it was pissing off the Koreans mightily.

I reckon that the Koreas will continue steps to end the war and start moving toward reunification. When the war ends as part of the process of denuclearisation the U.S. will be pressured into ending their military occupation of the southern part of the country.

Ending the joint US/South Korean War games is a very big step for peace right there.

I don’t really believe Kim Jong-Un intends to really completely denuclearize so we’ll see what happens then.

Online andrewfi

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Re: Historic Singapore Summit
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2018, 11:03:19 AM »
Denuclearisation is aspirational, not actionable. It certainly will not happen until the U.S. military occupation of the peninsula ends with a federation of North and South Korea. If the DPRK feels they can do without the military infrastructure required to support a significant nuclear deterrent then they will go for it because the cost and other resource burdens are certainly holding back the development of the country. That's the same reason why the Russians have announced reductions in military spending; they have gotten what they need in place to address external threats and so they can now divert some resources to social and economic development.

"For what else is the life of man but a kind of play in which men in various costumes perform until the director motions them offstage?" -Erasmus

Online Confederate

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Re: Historic Singapore Summit
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2018, 07:18:37 PM »
So they signed an agreement short on substance. Reasons for N. Korea not to denuclearize: Libya and Ukraine come to mind.

At least the chance for war is very low at this point. Compared to a few months ago that’s a victory right there.

Offline B.B.

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Re: Historic Singapore Summit
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2018, 08:28:16 PM »
So here's tomorrow's headline: "GOP President Makes Peace Overtures Toward Long Standing Enemy; Liberals OUTRAGED!"   :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:

What did Trump give up?  Nothing.  He agreed to halt war games that the US conducts each year with SoKo - the wrapped up last month so he has the better part of a year to go back to the stick if the NoKos don't respond to the carrot. 

He gave them nothing.

Bill Clinton, OTOH, via his bagman Jimmy "The Original Miserable Failure" Carter, gave the NoKos $5 BILLION and two nuclear reactors, so you tell me, who is the dumb bell?

Either the NoKos move forward, or we go back to "Maximum Sanctions".  Trump made something out of nothing and if it doesn't work out, we're no worse off than we were before.

B/B
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Offline Manny

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Re: Historic Singapore Summit
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2018, 01:53:27 PM »
If Kim gives up his nukes the Yanks will move in, invade and kill him as they did with Gadaffi. Unless China or Russia stops them as its their backyard.

As we all know, the US is not to be trusted. The trail of devastation and the odd killed leader across Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya we all know about. Interventions in Ukraine and Syria and dozens of other places we also know about.

Trump may even have good intent, but he's a pensioner and will soon be gone. Next warmonger in the White House might well tear up Trump's deal and invade them again.

Kim just needs to make nice noises, talk about it some and get those sanctions lifted and the US out of the region. It's a chess game.........

Online Lord of the Dance

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Re: Historic Singapore Summit
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2018, 03:33:38 PM »
Trump may even have good intent, but he's a pensioner and will soon be gone.

I've heard the term 'pensioner' used before on this forum... does this mean 'older person?'
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Online AvHdB

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Re: Historic Singapore Summit
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2018, 04:29:42 PM »
Trump may even have good intent, but he's a pensioner and will soon be gone.

I've heard the term 'pensioner' used before on this forum... does this mean 'older person?'

It is an expression used in the UK to refer to some one retired. 'He is living on his pension'.
“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

Online Lord of the Dance

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Re: Historic Singapore Summit
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2018, 04:34:31 PM »
Trump may even have good intent, but he's a pensioner and will soon be gone.

I've heard the term 'pensioner' used before on this forum... does this mean 'older person?'

It is an expression used in the UK to refer to some one retired. 'He is living on his pension'.

Ah-ha, makes sense. Thanks for the explanation Av.
"I've been abused, I've been confused and I've kissed Margaret Thatcher's shoes." ~ The Godfathers (from 'Birth, School, Work, Death')

Online Confederate

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Re: Historic Singapore Summit
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2018, 06:24:02 PM »
If Kim gives up his nukes the Yanks will move in, invade and kill him as they did with Gadaffi. Unless China or Russia stops them as its their backyard.

As we all know, the US is not to be trusted. The trail of devastation and the odd killed leader across Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya we all know about. Interventions in Ukraine and Syria and dozens of other places we also know about.

Trump may even have good intent, but he's a pensioner and will soon be gone. Next warmonger in the White House might well tear up Trump's deal and invade them again.

Kim just needs to make nice noises, talk about it some and get those sanctions lifted and the US out of the region. It's a chess game.........

North Korea is not Iraq or Libya and the top US military commanders know this. Any attempt to invade N. Korea would result in massive civilian casualties in Soul to begin with and then a bloodbath on both sides.  This is all hyperbole. At the most things will go back to square one.

Some US commanders are upset Trump mentioned bringing home US troops. Unlikely. They will convince Trump to leave them there, more than likely.

Trump is not a pensioner yet, he will probably win in 2020 so you’ve got 6 more years of him; get used to it.