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Author Topic: Raiffeisen Russia, Financial Monitoring and 'security'  (Read 710 times)

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Online msmoby

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Raiffeisen Russia, Financial Monitoring and 'security'
« on: May 25, 2018, 03:43:53 AM »
We have a car in Russia - in t'other half's name and she has credit cards - which are cleared once a month

I was using opaltransfer but changed to transferwise - sending money to her Raiffeisen DEBIT card - often same day from UK

Then one day the bank refuses to let monies be drawn - asking WHERE DOES the money come from ?

We were asked to write to the 'Financial Monitoring Dept' at info@raiffeisen.ru - we did - showing the originating transactions and what the monies where being used for ....nothing heard in response

That was March 30th

May 15th and the 'monthly limit' for incoming was reached - but we had sent in the evidence required... " No you didn't" .... say the bank - so I simply forwarded the original email - plus attachments - from t'other halfs email account they have on file ..

Two days later - "you must come to the branch- we don't want emails" ( which is what was requested ) - kinda hard when t'other half in in Cyprus.. and has been since late Feb.

So, Missus' goes back and finds they have now blocked the account from incoming and £300 is bouncing around - looking for a home.

I wrote to the H.O in Vienna - they own 80 % of the Russian subsidiary - according to Wiki - but they say "cannot help" - but "will forward to Moscow..."


WHY - when someone takes a wrong decision in Russia - will NO ONE take ownership to resolve the problem ?

Clearly, they THINK we haven't responded - even though Madam has printed off and even translated the emails...


As it stands - can no longer recommend this bank

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Re: Raiffeisen Russia, Financial Monitoring and 'security'
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2018, 10:02:03 PM »
This is actually a very good topic.  I dont have the answers, but I would like to add some supporting info so that other more knowledgeable members can contribute.  It has always seemed to me that the US is more strict with financial matters than the EU or RF.  For example I find it silly that if I as an American marry a European woman and she puts me on her bank account that I must advise Uncle Sam if said account has more than 10k USD.  Additionally I cannot travel with more than 10k USD, a limit in place at least since the early 1990s which has not been lifted.  And not only that, but Americans are routinely questioned when they return home as to howe much money they have.  I just got back from Spain with $350 with me and still questioned.  Visitors in America are only allowed $100 worth of goods and residents $800.  So why are we so strict and why haven't those limits been raised to coincide with inflation, etc? 

Russia is a bit strange because one cannot leave the country with more than $3000.  This is rather low.  I always like to take some cash in case a credit card fails or something.  If one is traveling from Russia to the EU or the UK which are more expensive one can easily spend $200 per day as a tourist if not more.  So 3k is not much for a holiday much less for a shopping holiday.  But all in all Russia seems more relaxed and they seem to operate with more common sense than here in the USA. 

The above question by the op seems like the bank is thinking there is money laundering involved.  Why ask for the origin of the cash? 

Offline sparky114

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Re: Raiffeisen Russia, Financial Monitoring and 'security'
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2018, 11:23:18 PM »
We have a car in Russia - in t'other half's name and she has credit cards - which are cleared once a month

I was using opaltransfer but changed to transferwise - sending money to her Raiffeisen DEBIT card - often same day from UK

Then one day the bank refuses to let monies be drawn - asking WHERE DOES the money come from ?

We were asked to write to the 'Financial Monitoring Dept' at info@raiffeisen.ru - we did - showing the originating transactions and what the monies where being used for ....nothing heard in response

That was March 30th

May 15th and the 'monthly limit' for incoming was reached - but we had sent in the evidence required... " No you didn't" .... say the bank - so I simply forwarded the original email - plus attachments - from t'other halfs email account they have on file ..

Two days later - "you must come to the branch- we don't want emails" ( which is what was requested ) - kinda hard when t'other half in in Cyprus.. and has been since late Feb.

So, Missus' goes back and finds they have now blocked the account from incoming and £300 is bouncing around - looking for a home.

I wrote to the H.O in Vienna - they own 80 % of the Russian subsidiary - according to Wiki - but they say "cannot help" - but "will forward to Moscow..."


WHY - when someone takes a wrong decision in Russia - will NO ONE take ownership to resolve the problem ?

Clearly, they THINK we haven't responded - even though Madam has printed off and even translated the emails...


As it stands - can no longer recommend this bank

firstly you are using a foreign bank in russia so they will and are more closely monitored,  secondly I guess you are using multiple methods of sending money paypal money gram opal etc to the same account number.
The monitoring guys flags will of gone up because they will only see this as multiple streams of income and such looks like money laundering.

We as you know also transfer money to our accounts in Russia, but we long since left the red tape of a non Russian bank to using a in country bank (s)
we also don't send money frequently, 3 maybe 4 times a year but larger amounts and other times we just take currency and pay straight in to our accounts.

as for single transactions I know you use PayPal quite a bit
do you use this to send money through opal etc?
If you do you are entering in yet another country identification on your transaction ie..
 country of originated transaction UK
Bank Luxembourg
third party Opal etc
destination bank Austria controlled
final Russian Reif account
to many financial houses involved
but the above is me only guessing how you may have sent the flags up, could be your just sending money too often and too many different ways
Today is only one day in a life of happiness

Mark


Online msmoby

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Re: Raiffeisen Russia, Financial Monitoring and 'security'
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2018, 12:29:10 AM »
Thanks for the responses

I'm wondering is it because Transferwise use peer to peer banking ..i.e they match someone sending money from the other direction - so there is no crossing of borders ?

IF the f'fn bank bothered to read emails - this would have been sorted in the blink of an eye

NOT using paypal .. Madam does have a paypal card linked to my UK account - but that is not part of the equation


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Re: Raiffeisen Russia, Financial Monitoring and 'security'
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2018, 12:47:07 AM »
In such a situation as Moby is in, it is usually the best to visit in person, not by phone and certainly not by email.

Take all required documents with you and make an appointment.

It never failed for me to resolve any kind of (financial) boo-boo.

(Thats also why I try to use paypal as little as possible. Luxembourgh is simply not around the corner for me).

Mark
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Re: Raiffeisen Russia, Financial Monitoring and 'security'
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2018, 01:01:33 AM »
In such a situation as Moby is in, it is usually the best to visit in person, not by phone and certainly not by email.

Take all required documents with you and make an appointment.

It never failed for me to resolve any kind of (financial) boo-boo.

(Thats also why I try to use paypal as little as possible. Luxembourgh is simply not around the corner for me).

Mark

Hi Markje

1/ To re-interate paypal is not in this equation - other than occasionally it is the medium used to pay for stuff - instead of the RU bank

2/ As SC was not IN the country - they asked us to email..  then claimed it was never received - it was from THE email address they have on file.. and they 'found' the forwarded copy of the original.  When she DID attend in person .   She was simply told the debit car was now ''blocked - for reasons of security" - despite her having a shed load of evidence of where the dosh comes from and NO ONE takes ownership









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Re: Raiffeisen Russia, Financial Monitoring and 'security'
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2018, 03:36:23 AM »
Don't know what are your bank arrangements....... sound convoluted to me.... but in our case for the past 10 years we never had a problem.

1. Separate current account to use for baboushka, Debit card issued and is used by her, for cash and paying in shops etc. My bank has been advised for the arrangement.

2. Baboushka opened a bank account with Sberbank...... and get cash from any ATM and pay monthly all bills in one go.

JOB Done...... slight more expensive transfer charges 4% but never had any problems.

I have paypal accounts and western Union but both appear to be complicated and more expensive......and difficult for the old woman!

3. Several times Baboushka withdrew 20.000 Rub at a time for various reasons and not a problem.

Twice a month pay supermarket ......by my debit card... Not a problem.

4. My bank had a branch office in Ufa.... but now is closed.

I guess you like to be make life difficult........don't you my friend Moby?

Good luck old chum!



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Offline Ste

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Re: Raiffeisen Russia, Financial Monitoring and 'security'
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2018, 03:36:32 AM »
US banks are notably lax, Ive worked at several no questions asked.

EU and even more so UK the checks are extremely onerous, credit checks, references (and I work for myself) and no unexplainable work gaps where you could be abroad laundering money.

And now US banks are trying to lift the already lax rules, will probably lead to the death of the dollar as many predicted here if another crisis happens. And it will if the wheel is allowed to turn again.

O pointy birds, o pointy pointy, Anoint my head, anointy-nointy.

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Re: Raiffeisen Russia, Financial Monitoring and 'security'
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2018, 10:40:25 AM »


I guess you like to be make life difficult........don't you my friend Moby?


Thank you for your 'reasoned response' and 'advice'...  How do you pay for shopping on your debit card - if you ain't in Russia ?

In the meantime - the more attentive poster may have observed that I am just sending money for living expenses....  'sofa surfing' ;)

I'm seriously wondering if transferwise transfers appear as if they INTERNAL - based on how the principle of peer-to -peering banking works .... MY money stays in the UK and is matched with a Russian trying to send money to the UK ... MY money is used for his transfer..






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Re: Raiffeisen Russia, Financial Monitoring and 'security'
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2018, 06:48:35 PM »
I guess you like to be make life difficult........don't you my friend Moby?

Thank you for your 'reasoned response' and 'advice'...  How do you pay for shopping on your debit card - if you ain't in Russia ?

In the meantime - the more attentive poster may have observed that I am just sending money for living expenses....  'sofa surfing' ;)

Do you mean ...... extra services.... at your age?  :ROFL:
 

Remember Keep it simple:

1) I guess you must have an on line bank account or accounts and when you go on line.... you can see all of your accounts, like I do.

2) Ask you bank to create a second Current Account under your name ...... tell them that you have a family in Russia and travel there very frequently and you need to have this account for security purpose, in case you loose your normal debit card and that you will always keep this card separately to avoid accidents or problems.

3) You will always use this account while away to Russia and all transactions in this account they will be "mostly" in Russia......and you will keep an eye on the account for any suspicious transactions. If you are friendly with the staff... ask for a small overdraft to avoid any charges by accident..........but don't use it ... and neither tell SC about it! women alway forget....as they like shopping!

4) Then when they issue you the Debit Card and Pin number..... Transfer any amount you think you may have to give SC for rending her Sofa.......and when you visit her next time.... give her the card and the Pin number. Always ask her to let you know when she used the card so you can transfer money and cover it in advance.

5) When I was training Baboushka.... I went with her  and let her shop and pay the bill
The girl on the checking recognised was a foreign card and she ask me to put the Pin number.....I just told her that Baboushka can do it!.... all went fine.

6) Next day same training but this time I was outside smoking......a new different girl on the till told Baboushka she can't pay with my card........ Baboushka told her to call the manager....she did... and she told her... that it is her card to use for shopping and if she wants... she can ask me to come in and confirm. Of course the staff know baboushka.... and the Manager told the girl it's fine. After that not a problem.... they like taking your money  :nod:

7) After that episode they got use to it..... they get to know her....Apteka etc. and accept her payments, for the simple reason that Baboushka knows the PIN Number.

Of course taking cash out of the ATM it's not a problem...... any ATM.

8) To avoid paying high charges.... baboushka is using the card for bills over 1000 rubles.....and if less pay by cash.

I hope you realise what I am talking about......and don't make it difficult, as it's you habit!

I am sure SC will be very happy with the arrangement and will give you her best attention and also her best sofa to sleep..!

Before I forget... ask your bank what is the maximum cash you can draw in a day....... Mine is £300 = 24,826 RUB... checked while typing.


Enjoy the sofa treatment but I am not sure if you can keep up with a trained body in the sun....

 :laugh:





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Re: Raiffeisen Russia, Financial Monitoring and 'security'
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2018, 06:54:35 PM »
Lets do simples Raiffeisen is not a typical bank structure. They are a co-operative structure in other words for the investment in you are that much of an 'owner in that branch'. Each branch can make its own rules. The same holds true for Russia or Ukraine where they are active. The same sort of structure can be found with the RABO bank in the Netherlands and abroad. These banks developed from a structure to help farmers.

The Raiffeisen Co-Ops are controlled and overseen by the central administration in Austria. Because of this accountability (or lack there of) Raiffeisen has found itself in 'hot water'  with regards to laundering of dodgy or illegally obtained funds and/or assets. In the United States Co-Operative banks are sometimes referred to as Credit Unions or Society's. While not directly tied together they all follow in one way or the other the so called Rochdale Principles.

Whether you send money for sofa surfing or acquiring assets of significance each branch will have its own style. Using a co-operative bank such as Raiffeisen recquires a personal relationship with the manager. For the good order both the Raiffeisen and RABO Bank are not small mom and pop operations. Think top 50 largest financial institutions in the world. Perhaps Markje can assist but I think RABO is a 'spin off' 100 years ago from Raiffeisen.

Modification: My post posted directly after that of Wiz and I concour in the KISS principle Keep It Simple Stupid.
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Online Wiz

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Re: Raiffeisen Russia, Financial Monitoring and 'security'
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2018, 07:22:52 PM »
Lets do simples Raiffeisen is not a typical bank structure. They are a co-operative structure in other words for the investment in you are that much of an 'owner in that branch'. Each branch can make its own rules. The same holds true for Russia or Ukraine where they are active. The same sort of structure can be found with the RABO bank in the Netherlands and abroad. These banks developed from a structure to help farmers.

The Raiffeisen Co-Ops are controlled and overseen by the central administration in Austria. Because of this accountability (or lack there of) Raiffeisen has found itself in 'hot water'  with regards to laundering of dodgy or illegally obtained funds and/or assets. In the United States Co-Operative banks are sometimes referred to as Credit Unions or Society's. While not directly tied together they all follow in one way or the other the so called Rochdale Principles.

Whether you send money for sofa surfing or acquiring assets of significance each branch will have its own style. Using a co-operative bank such as Raiffeisen recquires a personal relationship with the manager. For the good order both the Raiffeisen and RABO Bank are not small mom and pop operations. Think top 50 largest financial institutions in the world. Perhaps Markje can assist but I think RABO is a 'spin off' 100 years ago from Raiffeisen.

Modification: My post posted directly after that of Wiz and I concour in the KISS principle Keep It Simple Stupid.

It is a charitable organisation....... :laugh:

Moby will not be happy with you giving a way his little..nuggets.

 :ROFL:
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Online msmoby

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Re: Raiffeisen Russia, Financial Monitoring and 'security'
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2018, 12:28:31 AM »
Despite the efforts of a one particular poster ( who's 'recommended action' is to give an elderly lady HIS debit card from the UK as the 'sensible' route to fund family abroad....  not only breaking the Ts and Cs of the bank - but with the potential to get Babuska into an awkward situation .. ) I'm grateful for the input

Question:  What could be simpler than sending one's t'other half money to HER account from MY account ?

I recommended Raiffeisen - having dealt with them in 2 other countries ( Austria and Ukraine)  - BEFORE opening an account in Russia for SC - the local Branch know us well - our situation- this was inattentiveness at the Financial monitoring dept ..  They HAD the req'd info - just didn't deal with it
 

All sorted, now
... Apologies for the errors their end, card restored ( free for a year - saving £30 ) and thanks to a good Russian friend who paid in in monies to allow us to pay the credit card bill with 2 hours to spare - saving us a late payment and interest - and paypal  for ensuring the friend got the money back in seconds .

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Re: Raiffeisen Russia, Financial Monitoring and 'security'
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2018, 03:30:57 AM »
Lets do simples Raiffeisen is not a typical bank structure. They are a co-operative structure in other words for the investment in you are that much of an 'owner in that branch'. Each branch can make its own rules. The same holds true for Russia or Ukraine where they are active. The same sort of structure can be found with the RABO bank in the Netherlands and abroad. These banks developed from a structure to help farmers.

The Raiffeisen Co-Ops are controlled and overseen by the central administration in Austria. Because of this accountability (or lack there of) Raiffeisen has found itself in 'hot water'  with regards to laundering of dodgy or illegally obtained funds and/or assets. In the United States Co-Operative banks are sometimes referred to as Credit Unions or Society's. While not directly tied together they all follow in one way or the other the so called Rochdale Principles.

Whether you send money for sofa surfing or acquiring assets of significance each branch will have its own style. Using a co-operative bank such as Raiffeisen recquires a personal relationship with the manager. For the good order both the Raiffeisen and RABO Bank are not small mom and pop operations. Think top 50 largest financial institutions in the world. Perhaps Markje can assist but I think RABO is a 'spin off' 100 years ago from Raiffeisen.

Modification: My post posted directly after that of Wiz and I concour in the KISS principle Keep It Simple Stupid.

Rabo in nl = raffaisen
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Re: Raiffeisen Russia, Financial Monitoring and 'security'
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2018, 04:29:02 AM »
Despite the efforts of a one particular poster ( who's 'recommended action' is to give an elderly lady HIS debit card from the UK as the 'sensible' route to fund family abroad....  not only breaking the Ts and Cs of the bank - but with the potential to get Babuska into an awkward situation .. ) I'm grateful for the input

Question:  What could be simpler than sending one's t'other half money to HER account from MY account ?

Taking into consideration all the crap you posted on the other thread regarding Antalya.....airport ..... now I am 100% sure that you cannot read with glasses or not! Pitty you have gone blind and could not read the enlarged message at the top of my post.

I can only guess that your new "wife/mistress" is only a business front cover, nothing more .... and you are not allowed to water the flower garden especially after you had the chop! Result you have gone blind and Ga Ga........... and stop pretending you are intelligent, you are not!   :Stickouttongue2:

" Tu Nepolivaesh tsvetok" and I feel sorry for you.......  :(

Do you think the bank staff are stupid or their systems don't flag on certain abnormal movements? You must be living in another planet if you do!

Regular normal transactions will not flag your card/account.... and if you are asked.... all you have to say "the transaction is normal"!

How often do you have to pay for services rendered, sofa rent a month 1-2 times.... if more than ask her to withdrew cash from ATM and put it in her account, if she has to.

Next time you go there with the new Debit Card....... ask her to try and use it.....stay 2-3 metres away from the till and follow what I said!

I suspect you have many abnormal transactions of large amounts...............

Finally Ask your bank how much will cost you to make an international Transfer to her account in Russia for £100 ............ I did and was told... £20 in commission.

Same amount via ATM....costs me including all commissions UK/ATM Russia.... no more than £3.50

You are in need of a local assistant to sharpen your pencil except if you have retired!

 :biggrin:
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