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Author Topic: Salaries in Moscow  (Read 417 times)

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Offline Omega1982

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Salaries in Moscow
« on: January 13, 2018, 10:29:04 PM »
Good evening gentlemen:   


Happy New Year to everyone.  I met a woman in Moscow last spring.  She was working in her ex husband's travel agency.  Now she will begin working for a different travel agency in order to not have to deal so much with her ex.  She claims in her new job at a travel agency in Moscow, working as a travel agent full time that she will be making $480 per month.  This seems too low for Moscow.  Any ideas? 

Offline Poldark

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Re: Salaries in Moscow
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2018, 06:45:42 AM »
Any ideas?
If she's a travel agent, she'll earn commission on top of her salary which will bring it up or at least I presume this to be the case as it is in the UK, US, Dubai etc.

Offline Jerash

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Re: Salaries in Moscow
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2018, 11:41:51 AM »
Good evening gentlemen:   


Happy New Year to everyone.  I met a woman in Moscow last spring.  She was working in her ex husband's travel agency.  Now she will begin working for a different travel agency in order to not have to deal so much with her ex.  She claims in her new job at a travel agency in Moscow, working as a travel agent full time that she will be making $480 per month.  This seems too low for Moscow.  Any ideas?

It's a low salary (around 28,000ru), but entirely plausible.  Working as a store clerk or in a place like Auchan will bring in about 25,000-30,000 a month.  Doctors in the public system making an appalling 30-40,000ru a month in Moscow.  This is why people are sometimes willing to top up the Doctor's salary to get better treatment, as they don't really have a salary that they can live on in Moscow.  An average salary in a good paying job will bring in between 80,000-150,000ru per month.

Well salaries haven't changed a lot in recent years, values have been halved when compared to USD.  This has had a big effect on international travel plans and local prices of things that are imported or in some way tied to external factors.

As Poldark says, it's quite likely she is getting a commission as well, which brings up her salary level.


Online Steveboy

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Re: Salaries in Moscow
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2018, 12:45:10 PM »
Yes but I could say I know a women in London who earns 10K a year is that a high salary as it seems not so much...Some people earn some people don't and it doesn't always matter what industry your in or what country or city, its life.

If your meaning I found a women in Moscow on a low salary and there could be a chance we can get together I wouldn't count on it. Low salaries don't = love anymore...


Offline justadude

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Re: Salaries in Moscow
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2018, 06:32:52 PM »
Yes but I could say I know a women in London who earns 10K a year is that a high salary as it seems not so much...Some people earn some people don't and it doesn't always matter what industry your in or what country or city, its life.

According to one source, the average monthly salary in Moscow is $1000 while the average salary in New York is about $4000 USD. So maybe it would be fair to say that that salary in Moscow would be something  like earning $2K in New York.

Quote
If your meaning I found a women in Moscow on a low salary and there could be a chance we can get together I wouldn't count on it. Low salaries don't = love anymore...

This “answers” a question that wasn’t asked by the OP.

Online AvHdB

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Re: Salaries in Moscow
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2018, 06:47:25 PM »
Yes but I could say I know a women in London who earns 10K a year is that a high salary as it seems not so much...Some people earn some people don't and it doesn't always matter what industry your in or what country or city, its life.

According to one source, the average monthly salary in Moscow is $1000 while the average salary in New York is about $4000 USD. So maybe it would be fair to say that that salary in Moscow would be something  like earning $2K in New York.

Quote
If your meaning I found a women in Moscow on a low salary and there could be a chance we can get together I wouldn't count on it. Low salaries don't = love anymore...

This “answers” a question that wasn’t asked by the OP.

But there is a segment of the foreign (expat) population in the former Soviet Union that believes one can 'capitalise' on a assumed salary discrepancy and cultural gap. Perhaps, but these are mostly illusions in my opinion. Off course one must understand that in Ukraine the average monthly salary is $200.=

The Steveboy can paint a more delicate picture if he is so inclined.
“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

Offline Annushka

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Re: How much does the work of the tourist manager.
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2018, 08:11:13 PM »
Manager in the travel agency: work on a percentage basis.

The wages of managers of travel agencies are calculated more difficultly. Timothy Bukrin, director general of the personnel center "Tourism and work", said in an interview with Turinfo that 80% of the emerging agencies have a meager budget for personnel or do not have it at all. Often, everything is limited to hiring unskilled employees, the efficiency of which tends to zero. From this situation, there are only two options: to stumble on the external attributes of the company, like expensive furniture and hire an experienced professional-or raise a young employee, spending the energy, time and money for his training.

Indeed, almost every agency tries to "squeeze" the budget. However, most often this is manifested in the fact that in the form of a salary, applicants are offered a minimum rate plus interest on sales. "We offer managers a rate of 5 to 10 thousand rubles. In addition, the employee receives 50% of the commission from the tourist, whom he sold the tour, "- says the director of the agency" Budget Tour "Elizaveta Nikolaeva. This principle of labor payment is applied in the absolute majority of travel agencies. This helps the directors not to "go into negative" in the dead season and motivates the manager himself to work actively for the benefit of the agency.

In general, the market, the rate usually varies from 5 to 20 thousand rubles, the percentage of sales - from 10 to 50%. In one of the largest "Hot Tours" networks, Moscow managers are offered a fixed portion in the amount of 20 thousand to 35 thousand rubles. In the regional market, these figures are generally lower by 30-50%. In addition to the salary, the manager is also offered a percentage of sales - 5-12%. But there is one "but": their percentage managers will only receive after the sales volume per point is executed.

Such a condition for the agency market is not unique: most travel agencies resort to the need to implement the plan. Its size varies depending on the turnover and the size of the payback of the office (costs for rent and communication services, payroll, other office expenses). In this regard, for one sales office, the minimum plan may be 150 thousand rubles, and for another - 500 thousand rubles.

In order to get settled in a travel agency on more favorable terms, the applicant needs work experience and own accumulated client base. In large networks, to get a manager's post, you need to take a course of study. "The recruitment of a manager without experience is possible only if he passes the training in our special school Travel school. Based on the results of the training, a diploma is given about finishing school and employment in the network of sales offices "Hot tours". Passing the school, the applicant without experience can get a job only as an assistant manager or courier in the agency. The salary in this case - from 15 thousand rubles ", - said the general director of the network of sales offices" Hot tours "Svetlana Makarova.

It is interesting that travel agents with experience in numerous professional forums advise beginners to start work in agencies: this allows you to gain a useful experience. But earn money sent to tour operators.

http://www.atorus.ru/articles/all/article/1857.html

Offline Poldark

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Re: Salaries in Moscow
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2018, 10:29:48 AM »
Off course one must understand that in Ukraine the average monthly salary is $200.
On my visits so far, I don't believe this to be the case as I spent £20/week on groceries, £12/month on gym, £5/month on mobile, that's £103/month or $145/month which leaves utilities, rental/mortgage, activities, clothing etc left over for $55/month. Not going to happen.

Maybe I overspent, IDK but from looking around (Kyiv), no one is earning $200/month, it's more than that, I'd place it at $600 easy.

Online andrewfi

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Re: Salaries in Moscow
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2018, 12:12:49 PM »
As a foreigner thinking in dollars (or pounds) you are paying in dollars, even if only in your own head, you are going to be overpaying for everything. That's normal, but, to not understand that, well, that's a problem.

People in Ukraine get paid in local currency, they have local means and they do stuff locally. While the local currency gets devalued in terms of the dollar that devaluation is not linear. So, an imported TV might go up in price, step-wise with the devaluation of the hryvnia, but the potatoes dug out of the ground by local labor, using local machinery, on local farms, all priced in hryvnia - prices go up less fast.

People buy fewer new TVs. They eat less meat and more pasta. You'd not see that as a tourist - but you were probably impressed by the number of late model imported, high-end, cars while not noticing the aging fleet of lower end models.

The fact that you think of your gym membership as a necessity shows that you are not existing on the same plane as the people you claim do not exist.

In fact, the average wage in Ukraine in December 2017 is reported as being 8777UAH which is, today, $316. However, if one thinks in terms of average income then the figure is likely to be pretty close to $200.

https://tradingeconomics.com/ukraine/wages

The people live differently to you, but you won't see it - obviously, haven't. If you were to find yourself in the home of a pensioner or unemployed person you'd be looking at lots of jars of preserved stuff from the countryside if they were fortunate, or odds and ends of pasta and old bread for most. SUch people tend to be less visible because they are not swanning around on Khreshchatyk, they likely don't get out much at all - unless somebody is paying them to turn up for a demonstration.

But look at all the above and then at your numbers. You were not spending a fortune. Even you as an unpracticed tourist were living very cheaply. Imagine how somebody who knew what they were doing would manage?

If you want to get an idea of local prices then start to think in terms of the local currency and look at changes over time in local currency.


"For what else is the life of man but a kind of play in which men in various costumes perform until the director motions them offstage?" -Erasmus

Online Steveboy

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Re: Salaries in Moscow
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2018, 01:43:31 PM »
Yes but I could say I know a women in London who earns 10K a year is that a high salary as it seems not so much...Some people earn some people don't and it doesn't always matter what industry your in or what country or city, its life.

According to one source, the average monthly salary in Moscow is $1000 while the average salary in New York is about $4000 USD. So maybe it would be fair to say that that salary in Moscow would be something  like earning $2K in New York.

Quote
If your meaning I found a women in Moscow on a low salary and there could be a chance we can get together I wouldn't count on it. Low salaries don't = love anymore...

This “answers” a question that wasn’t asked by the OP.

This “answers” a question that wasn’t asked by the OP.

Correct it wasn't asked directly! But indirectly it was heading that way.. :)

Online Lord of the Dance

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Re: Salaries in Moscow
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2018, 03:49:31 PM »
As a foreigner thinking in dollars (or pounds) you are paying in dollars, even if only in your own head, you are going to be overpaying for everything. That's normal, but, to not understand that, well, that's a problem.

People in Ukraine get paid in local currency, they have local means and they do stuff locally. While the local currency gets devalued in terms of the dollar that devaluation is not linear. So, an imported TV might go up in price, step-wise with the devaluation of the hryvnia, but the potatoes dug out of the ground by local labor, using local machinery, on local farms, all priced in hryvnia - prices go up less fast.

People buy fewer new TVs. They eat less meat and more pasta. You'd not see that as a tourist - but you were probably impressed by the number of late model imported, high-end, cars while not noticing the aging fleet of lower end models.

The fact that you think of your gym membership as a necessity shows that you are not existing on the same plane as the people you claim do not exist.

In fact, the average wage in Ukraine in December 2017 is reported as being 8777UAH which is, today, $316. However, if one thinks in terms of average income then the figure is likely to be pretty close to $200.

https://tradingeconomics.com/ukraine/wages

The people live differently to you, but you won't see it - obviously, haven't. If you were to find yourself in the home of a pensioner or unemployed person you'd be looking at lots of jars of preserved stuff from the countryside if they were fortunate, or odds and ends of pasta and old bread for most. SUch people tend to be less visible because they are not swanning around on Khreshchatyk, they likely don't get out much at all - unless somebody is paying them to turn up for a demonstration.

But look at all the above and then at your numbers. You were not spending a fortune. Even you as an unpracticed tourist were living very cheaply. Imagine how somebody who knew what they were doing would manage?

If you want to get an idea of local prices then start to think in terms of the local currency and look at changes over time in local currency.

Insightful post Andrew. I'm a visual learner so this sort of thing is hard for me to grasp; simple explanations like this post are helpful.
"Now everybody's got advice they just keep on givin', doesn't mean too much to me, lots of people out to make-believe they're livin', can't decide who they should be - I understand about indecision but I don't care if I get behind... people living in competition, all that I want is to have my peace of mind." ~ Boston

Online andrewfi

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Re: Salaries in Moscow
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2018, 04:14:31 PM »
Thanks, Lord of the Dance. My post was not written for just one reader so I am glad that you got the message.

Most of us, when we travel, and even when we live in a new place, a different culture, exist for at least a while in a kind of a bubble. We don't have language skills and social networks to enable us to see outside of that bubble.

Until one has seen how 'ordinary people' live under trying conditions one can find it hard to believe that such a life is possible, or that the people actually exist. It is a challenge that I have faced and lived through - more than once.

Truth be told, talking about absolute amounts of money in the scale we are here is pointless. Whether the amount is 8700HUA or $200 it is not enough for a person to live a fulfilled life in Ukraine. That's a tragedy, it is an insult to the people whose lives are being stolen from them. The tragedy is worsening, and the outcomes from it are not pleasant and will get worse.

"For what else is the life of man but a kind of play in which men in various costumes perform until the director motions them offstage?" -Erasmus

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Re: Salaries in Moscow
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2018, 04:16:10 PM »
I get offered contract work in Moscow sometines and the money is shite!


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Online andrewfi

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Re: Salaries in Moscow
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2018, 04:24:42 PM »
I get offered contract work in Moscow sometines and the money is shite!


.

Of course it is, but the local guy or girl when gets the job will be well happy with it.

"For what else is the life of man but a kind of play in which men in various costumes perform until the director motions them offstage?" -Erasmus

Online Steveboy

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Re: Salaries in Moscow
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2018, 09:45:05 PM »
I get offered contract work in Moscow sometines and the money is shite!


.

Thats because your greedy and want $5.00 ph  :laugh: