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Author Topic: Kiev refuses to pay Russian debt  (Read 721 times)

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Online Wiz

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Kiev refuses to pay Russian debt
« on: August 23, 2017, 12:51:07 AM »
Kiev refuses to pay Russian debt because
it was 'forced to take the money'!



https://www.rt.com/business/353515-ukraine-russia-debt-payment/

Ukraine’s Finance Minister Aleksandr Danilyuk says he sees no reason why the country should repay the $3 billion debt to Russia.

“It was a political credit which we were forced to take... Our position is that we shouldn’t return the money,” he told Ukrainian channel Espreso.TV

The minister confirmed the hearings at the High Court in London over the lawsuit brought by Russia concerning Kiev’s unpaid debt could take up to two years.

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko in May approved a bill extending the moratorium on paying off the country’s external debt, including the $3 billion Eurobond owed to Russia. The law allows Kiev more time to legally find ways to restructure its external debt.

Kiev’s debt to Moscow is the result of a deal sealed in 2013 between President Vladimir Putin and former Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovich. Moscow agreed to give Kiev a $15 billion loan through the purchase of Ukrainian Eurobonds. The first tranche of $3 billion was purchased by Russia and was to be repaid by December 20, 2015.

After Ukraine failed to repay the debt on schedule Moscow filed a lawsuit demanding the repayment.

Moscow had already suggested a debt-relief plan under which Ukraine could repay its arrears in three installments of $1 billion over the next three years. Russia wanted guarantees from the US, the EU or the International Monetary Fund on future payments of the Ukrainian sovereign debt. The deal, however, fell through, as Ukraine’s Western backers were unwilling to provide the guarantees.

Moscow says its bond purchase was a state loan, not a commercial one but Kiev argues that it was part of external commercial debt and could be restructured.

The International Monetary Fund recognizes Kiev’s debt to Russia as official and sovereign, with Ukraine, as the borrower state, responsible for the loan repayment.

 
:ROFL:


Source: RT
"For every beauty there is an eye to see it. For every truth there is an ear to hear it."


Offline Steveboy

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Re: Kiev refuses to pay Russian debt
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2017, 02:08:09 AM »
But they don't pay any debts!!  :laugh: :ROFL:

Online msmoby

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Re: Kiev refuses to pay Russian debt
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2017, 06:21:40 AM »
But they don't pay any debts!!  :laugh: :ROFL:

You mean like the RF failing to pay back the Yukos shareholders when it was found the company had been 'procured' illegally  - a political action ? ..

Russia lost and then Belgium and France started seizing RU property ... on behalf of the creditors.. Russia's action ? ..Create a law taking any property to a similar value  - seized by a foreign power - in Russia ... :chuckle:

The 'games' continue


Online andrewfi

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Re: Kiev refuses to pay Russian debt
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2017, 06:22:40 AM »
Kiev having lost its appeal to have the loan from Russia set aside will probably never result in a repayment of the loan. On the other hand, the IMF can now use the case and judgement as a stick with which to beat the Kievan regime.

This might become a debt that Ukraine comes to regret not having paid.

"For what else is the life of man but a kind of play in which men in various costumes perform until the director motions them offstage?" -Erasmus

Offline Manny

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Re: Kiev refuses to pay Russian debt
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2017, 06:28:06 AM »
Probably why they have now decided they want a few Trillion for Crimea.

Online andrewfi

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Re: Kiev refuses to pay Russian debt
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2017, 07:07:38 AM »
Those reading moby's comment above might be wondering what he is burbling about.

In a very few words a low level administrative 'court' made a judgement outside of its jurisdiction and for political reasons some Russian assets unrelated to the stakeholders in the case were seized, a process that was a gesture only and in more normal times would have been considered illegal and inappropriate. However, in order to protect Russian people, both legal and real, the Russian government enacted legislation enabling a protection of overseas assets by setting up a tit for tat mechanism for responding to illegal seizures of assets held overseas.

The case of the Kievan non-payment of state loans was tested by the recognised legal authority in matters of this type. The outcome of this court is legitimate and recognised by all stakeholders including Ukraine. This is why it is significant because the judgment is one that will affect future lending to Ukraine by organisations such as the IMF. That's because of rules within the IMF about lending to states that are in current default to other states. The IMF can change the rules but in doing so they open a door to future defaults which in turn would affect funding to the IMF for its operations.

"For what else is the life of man but a kind of play in which men in various costumes perform until the director motions them offstage?" -Erasmus

Online Ste

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Re: Kiev refuses to pay Russian debt
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2017, 07:35:18 AM »
Those reading moby's comment above might be wondering what he is burbling about.

In a very few words a low level administrative 'court' made a judgement outside of its jurisdiction and for political reasons some Russian assets unrelated to the stakeholders in the case were seized, a process that was a gesture only and in more normal times would have been considered illegal and inappropriate. However, in order to protect Russian people, both legal and real, the Russian government enacted legislation enabling a protection of overseas assets by setting up a tit for tat mechanism for responding to illegal seizures of assets held overseas.

The case of the Kievan non-payment of state loans was tested by the recognised legal authority in matters of this type. The outcome of this court is legitimate and recognised by all stakeholders including Ukraine. This is why it is significant because the judgment is one that will affect future lending to Ukraine by organisations such as the IMF. That's because of rules within the IMF about lending to states that are in current default to other states. The IMF can change the rules but in doing so they open a door to future defaults which in turn would affect funding to the IMF for its operations.

Pretty much like Trump trying to make Mexico pay for a wall....
O pointy birds, o pointy pointy, Anoint my head, anointy-nointy.

Online andrewfi

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Re: Kiev refuses to pay Russian debt
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2017, 07:57:07 AM »
I think that's what's called a false equivalency.

However, it is likely that the Mexican economy will bear the cost of the wall, when built, but it is unlikely that any Mexican will actually get out a purse and give the cash to somebody in the United States.

"For what else is the life of man but a kind of play in which men in various costumes perform until the director motions them offstage?" -Erasmus

Offline Steveboy

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Re: Kiev refuses to pay Russian debt
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2017, 07:57:30 AM »
But they don't pay any debts!!  :laugh: :ROFL:

You mean like the RF failing to pay back the Yukos shareholders when it was found the company had been 'procured' illegally  - a political action ? ..

Russia lost and then Belgium and France started seizing RU property ... on behalf of the creditors.. Russia's action ? ..Create a law taking any property to a similar value  - seized by a foreign power - in Russia ... :chuckle:

The 'games' continue

Why are you even attempting to live in Russia ? Why not relocate to Kiev , everything will be perfect for you there))

Have you seen the new visa application for UK citizens I would take a very good look at it!!  :laugh:

They now ask if you have a Facebook account and any other social media accounts.. remember if you do not lie ? So make sure you include all of that info.

There are also a few extra questions, YOU will need to think very clearly before answering ... :laugh:  have you at any time made any derogatory remarks about the Russian Federation or tried in any way to influence such and such about the Russian Federation...

Shit!!! Thats all you ever do.... :laugh:





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Re: Kiev refuses to pay Russian debt
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2017, 09:29:37 AM »
I think that's what's called a false equivalency.

However, it is likely that the Mexican economy will bear the cost of the wall, when built, but it is unlikely that any Mexican will actually get out a purse and give the cash to somebody in the United States.

We don't care if Mexico pays for the wall. The savings will come in the form of decreased crime and violence against our citizens. Decreased flow of drugs. Being able to get services at an Emergency Room without waiting in line with illegals clogging it up. Etc. Etc.

We can easily save 100 Billion a year and get our country back.

Online Wiz

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Re: Kiev refuses to pay Russian debt
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2017, 09:38:49 AM »
Just for the record.... which may shut up some people, like Moby spouting inacurances and a lot more........

Steve

If I remember well... Moby has two passports with "Business Visas" and I wonder... what kind of business he is doing in Russia... apart from the obvious, well published by himself, acquisition of a new sexy woman!  :P  :ROFL:

Russia wins legal victory over Yukos damages


Russia has won a significant legal victory after a Dutch court overturned a record $50bn damages award to former controlling shareholders of the Yukos oil company.

The shareholders were awarded the damages — 20 times bigger than any previous such award — by an arbitration panel in 2014 which found that the Russian state illegally expropriated Yukos when it declared the oil company bankrupt and sold off its assets almost a decade ago.

But on Wednesday a court in The Hague ruled the arbitration panel did not have jurisdiction in the case since it was brought under the Energy Charter Treaty, an international agreement which Russian signed but never ratified.

MORE HERE: https://www.ft.com/content/2a23a352-06ce-11e6-a70d-4e39ac32c284

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Offline ?ManyQuestions?

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Re: Kiev refuses to pay Russian debt
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2017, 10:45:56 AM »
I think that's what's called a false equivalency.

However, it is likely that the Mexican economy will bear the cost of the wall, when built, but it is unlikely that any Mexican will actually get out a purse and give the cash to somebody in the United States.

We don't care if Mexico pays for the wall. The savings will come in the form of decreased crime and violence against our citizens. Decreased flow of drugs. Being able to get services at an Emergency Room without waiting in line with illegals clogging it up. Etc. Etc.

We can easily save 100 Billion a year and get our country back.

Maybe we should send US gangs, like the Bloods and Cryps,  down to Mexico to sow seeds of chaos and trouble.  Like Mexico did to the US, when they allowed gangs like MS-13 to cross their borders from Honduras and ours to cause trouble in the US. Or even have gangs from Chicago move down to Mexico illegally and cause trouble.

Luckily, more MS-13 gang members are being hauled away by the vanload and will have their keysters keelhauled out of the US.  :popcorn:


Sorry I strayed off topic. Here is something about debt. The Federal Government could have paid off the National Debt a long time ago if they would have started around 2004-2005. But their stance has been "Let's kick the can down the road and address this another day.". Now here we are in 2017, 13 years later, and the day of reckoning has already arrived. This debt-infinity budget cannot last forever.

Like putting off the issue of slavery. That worked out so well when the day of reckoning came in 1861.


The dollar needs to be backed by Gold or Silver, something tangible and of value. Like what Abraham Lincoln did. Not just the Federal Government's corporeal "promise" that the dollar has value or has value base on loans. Otherwise, it's just worthless green paper being printed.

The Liberty Dollar was a voluntary currency that was backed by gold and silver. But the Feds and Rothschild allies in the Federal Reserve didn't want that so they seized the gold and silver and ended the currency. Then put the man who invented the currency under house arrest. I had hope, at the time, that US citizens could have an alternative just in case inflation should hit US citizens. But now, Americans don't have that alternative currency, when inflation hits the US.

Online Ste

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Re: Kiev refuses to pay Russian debt
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2017, 10:55:13 AM »
I think that's what's called a false equivalency.

However, it is likely that the Mexican economy will bear the cost of the wall, when built, but it is unlikely that any Mexican will actually get out a purse and give the cash to somebody in the United States.

We don't care if Mexico pays for the wall. The savings will come in the form of decreased crime and violence against our citizens. Decreased flow of drugs. Being able to get services at an Emergency Room without waiting in line with illegals clogging it up. Etc. Etc.

We can easily save 100 Billion a year and get our country back.

Maybe we should send US gangs, like the Bloods and Cryps,  down to Mexico to sow seeds of chaos and trouble.  Like Mexico did to the US, when they allowed gangs like MS-13 to cross their borders from Honduras and ours to cause trouble in the US. Or even have gangs from Chicago move down to Mexico illegally and cause trouble.

Luckily, more MS-13 gang members are being hauled away by the vanload and will have their keysters keelhauled out of the US.  :popcorn:


Sorry I strayed off topic. Here is something about debt. The Federal Government could have paid off the National Debt a long time ago if they would have started around 2004-2005. But their stance has been "Let's kick the can down the road and address this another day.". Now here we are in 2017, 13 years later, and the day of reckoning has already arrived. This debt-infinity budget cannot last forever.

Like putting off the issue of slavery. That worked out so well when the day of reckoning came in 1861.


The dollar needs to be backed by Gold or Silver, something tangible and of value. Like what Abraham Lincoln did. Not just the Federal Government's corporeal "promise" that the dollar has value or has value base on loans. Otherwise, it's just worthless green paper being printed.

The Liberty Dollar was a voluntary currency that was backed by gold and silver. But the Feds and Rothschild allies in the Federal Reserve didn't want that so they seized the gold and silver and ended the currency. Then put the man who invented the currency under house arrest. I had hope, at the time, that US citizens could have an alternative just in case inflation should hit US citizens. But now, Americans don't have that alternative currency, when inflation hits the US.

Not much of a Bhuddist are we?
O pointy birds, o pointy pointy, Anoint my head, anointy-nointy.

Online Wiz

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Re: Kiev refuses to pay Russian debt
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2017, 12:24:44 PM »
The savings will come in the form of decreased crime and violence against our citizens. Decreased flow of drugs.

We can easily save 100 Billion a year and get our country back.

You already have a good supply of drugs (opium etc), for the past 15 + years from your operations in Afghanistan, which Trump said will have to continue. The banksters are making lots of money....and your defense industry...... a lot more! ...
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5B7Yndw7ls

President Trump addresses nation on Afghanistan strategy
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5B7Yndw7ls" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5B7Yndw7ls</a>

Maybe I am wrong but do you know these gentlemen?



Trump’s Betrayal is Complete as Military-industrial Complex Rises to Power

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/47663.htm

or maybe is it the Uranium in Afghanistan's soil you are interested?
I thought that was the main acquisition target by the UK and NATO armies for been there!

How many $ Billions have you already spent there?

Just to be helpful to understand why your new president cannot run your country
take a look on this map and see why he is threatening N.KOREA when his main target is CHINA!

The generals in the above photo are running the show...... not him!


1) USA and Pakistan do not have an easy relationship! Pakistan and China are talking about building a direct pipeline from Iran to China via Pakistan. Don't forget that Iran is controlling the Strait of Hormuz with its small but very fast boats.... and USA is not happy about it!

2) The USA is pausing and causing a lot of problems to China's exports/Imports in the China sea....
China is secretly talking with Burma to create a fast train line to one of its ports for fast exit to the Indian ocean and avoid the Straits of Malacca. REM our Moby was around there last winter and visited Vietnam too?  ;D

3) I don't think the Trump regime really wants war with North Korea, but both are participating in a game.

The DPRK wants the US to return to the treaties negotiated between North Korea and the US but was abolished by the USA. These conditions allowed North Korea and the US to communicate, gave some guarantees for the security of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea and allowed the DPRK to trade with the rest of the world. The US will provide assistance for the construction of two nuclear power plants in North Korea. In return, the DPRK will not start developing a nuclear weapons program, and since US-produced power plants would not have the means to do so.

The US wants to have the ability to target weapons to China and Russia, they want to maintain a strong military presence in South Korea that threatens China and wants to maintain a destabilizing influence in this part of Asia.

When one looks at these "needs" and the preferred results, the US and North Korea are on the same page of the book! Literally the only thing to do is that the US will fulfill its contractual obligations towards North Korea. This is exactly what the Democratic People's Republic of North Korea has been asking for many years now.

Now take a good look at all these and then you will realize that the wall with Mexico it's not the first priority of the US failing Empire.

 tiphat

PS: Sorry about the long writing but had a good afternoon nap...... :chuckle:
"For every beauty there is an eye to see it. For every truth there is an ear to hear it."


Online 2tallbill

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Kiev refuses to pay Russian debt
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2017, 12:27:28 PM »
Pretty much like Trump trying to make Mexico pay for a wall....

There's a thousand ways to make Mexico pay for that wall without
publicly rubbing their noses in it, which is in nobodies best interest.