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Author Topic: Another nail in the coffin for the mail order bride business..  (Read 9369 times)

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Offline Steveboy

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Google are banning all Mail order brides / matchmaking tours and marriage agencies from advertising next month..

http://www.onlinepersonalswatch.com/news/2017/08/google-to-ban-premium-international-dating-sites.html

For sure many will go out of business in the next 12 month. Its going to hit the marriage agencies and tours the biggest.

Im ok though , no impact for me so life goes on.. :)
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Online andrewfi

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Re: Another nail in the coffin for the mail order bride business..
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2017, 03:38:21 AM »
Somebody has been reading the papers I wrote a few years ago.  :saint:

Sadly, the option that might have served as a way for service providers to avoid the issues we now see never came to pass.

I don't think that it is, yet, the end for such businesses, they will continue their move to social media. Problem is that social media have greater control over their eyeballs than Google Search and the Adsense program do. That's going to become a problem for 'dating' businesses.
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

Offline Steveboy

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Re: Another nail in the coffin for the mail order bride business..
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2017, 04:18:33 AM »
I don't think it will be a problem for the big sites as they have big affiliate programs and its pretty easy to buy 10,000 members via a ad network on a Pay per Action plan most big sites only use ad networks anyway. Ad networks are the way to go anyway using Google adwords alone is not enough to bring in the thousands..

But all the small marriage agencies and tour operators , its good bye for sure..

Lifes a bitch either die or evolve..
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Online andrewfi

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Re: Another nail in the coffin for the mail order bride business..
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2017, 04:30:11 AM »
Are there any small ones left in the Russian speaking market, apart from the boiler rooms feeding the big sites with profiles and chat operators?
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

Offline Steveboy

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Re: Another nail in the coffin for the mail order bride business..
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2017, 04:37:28 AM »
Not really many left I think. Anyway marriage agencies and romance tours are so old hat and prehistoric..only complete fools use these places.


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Online andrewfi

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Re: Another nail in the coffin for the mail order bride business..
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2017, 07:23:29 AM »
Not really many left I think. Anyway marriage agencies and romance tours are so old hat and prehistoric..only complete fools use these places.

Don't say that, plenty reading this will be off on a 'tour' or paying to talk to chatbots. :)
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

Offline rw_recruiter

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Re: Another nail in the coffin for the mail order bride business..
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2017, 10:12:09 AM »
I don't think that it is, yet, the end for such businesses, they will continue their move to social media. Problem is that social media have greater control over their eyeballs than Google Search and the Adsense program do. That's going to become a problem for 'dating' businesses.

Social media already has very strict rules in place for dating. Same for certain niches like payday and supplements. The agencies cannot advertise on them.

Offline Steveboy

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Re: Another nail in the coffin for the mail order bride business..
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2017, 10:28:47 AM »
I don't think that it is, yet, the end for such businesses, they will continue their move to social media. Problem is that social media have greater control over their eyeballs than Google Search and the Adsense program do. That's going to become a problem for 'dating' businesses.

Social media already has very strict rules in place for dating. Same for certain niches like payday and supplements. The agencies cannot advertise on them.

Social media ads don't usually pay off.. usually sign ups from Facebook will be from Algeria,Turkey, Iran and these sort of places. They are usually on Facebook trying to chat with foreign women for free and certainly do not want to pay for it. Even highly targeted ads don't work, you just get cheap skates who usually cannot even afford a dinner let alone subscription charges on a dating site... :laugh:

I tried Facebook a few years back and it was pretty crap. Facebook are a right scam now if you have business pages. They will put your pages non stop 24/7 infant of people then send you all this shit about how many likes you can get for $5..I thought I was a spammer until I knew about Facebook.. they are terrible!
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Offline rw_recruiter

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Re: Another nail in the coffin for the mail order bride business..
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2017, 11:01:48 AM »
I don't think that it is, yet, the end for such businesses, they will continue their move to social media. Problem is that social media have greater control over their eyeballs than Google Search and the Adsense program do. That's going to become a problem for 'dating' businesses.

Social media already has very strict rules in place for dating. Same for certain niches like payday and supplements. The agencies cannot advertise on them.

Social media ads don't usually pay off.. usually sign ups from Facebook will be from Algeria,Turkey, Iran and these sort of places. They are usually on Facebook trying to chat with foreign women for free and certainly do not want to pay for it. Even highly targeted ads don't work, you just get cheap skates who usually cannot even afford a dinner let alone subscription charges on a dating site... :laugh:

I tried Facebook a few years back and it was pretty crap. Facebook are a right scam now if you have business pages. They will put your pages non stop 24/7 infant of people then send you all this shit about how many likes you can get for $5..I thought I was a spammer until I knew about Facebook.. they are terrible!

You can filter out undesirable countries. You can send them to a funnel offering with a lead magnet and retarget a different offer like a tour. Many ways to do it effectively if you know what you are doing. Maybe better to sell the guys browsing Russian women an alternate product though.....

Offline Volshe

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Re: Another nail in the coffin for the mail order bride business..
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2017, 01:16:46 PM »
You can filter out undesirable countries. You can send them to a funnel offering with a lead magnet and retarget a different offer like a tour. Many ways to do it effectively if you know what you are doing. Maybe better to sell the guys browsing Russian women an alternate product though.....

I like your reasoning.  :thumbsup:
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Online andrewfi

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Re: Another nail in the coffin for the mail order bride business..
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2017, 01:38:02 PM »
I was going to note that I seem to see a different version of Facebook to some people. :)

I get Steve's point about low quality of responses, but that's usually the way with freebie seekers.

Social media is, well, social. This forum is social media and, sure as shit it has driven a lot of revenue over the years, probably less these days though. Very few people want to pay for stuff they think they can get for free. We are at the end of the Russian language mail order bride product life cycle. It isn't  just about the ads, it ain't just about the marketing, it is about the people in the market.

Product life cycle model: https://image.slidesharecdn.com/bostonmatrixandproductlifecycle-140205004550-phpapp01/95/boston-matrix-and-product-life-cycle-15-638.jpg?cb=1391561194


Related, from chart above, how the Boston Matrix ties in: http://www.essay.uk.com/assets/img/wp/the-boston-matrix.jpg


How customer type fits into the model: http://andrew.treloar.net/research/publications/ifip99/customers.jpg
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Offline Steveboy

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Re: Another nail in the coffin for the mail order bride business..
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2017, 03:45:32 PM »
There is still plenty of business in Eastern European dating for a few more years yet..my sales go up yearly or there will be trouble! There are still plenty of 35/40 year old women searching, we have hundreds every week registering.
What has changed is the women's online habits, only 10 years ago they would of been happy to sign up to any old crappy site just for the chance of meeting a foreign guy. But today with so many smart apps out there with lots of nice features women don't want to register at some outdated site. If a site has not got the latest features they will often leave, doesn't matter how many guys are there.
I spent a long time building a new dating platform but still a common reason for women asking to be deleted is "Im not satisfied with the technology and features" the next biggest reason is "Im not satisfied with the quality of members"

Women are no push over anymore and you need lots of them as most have a short shelf life. They know what they want.

For men it is a different matter. They are not so much interested in a good dating product, they want just bus loads of women day and night registering. For the men membership retention is the most important issue and as the average time searching for a women is 2/3 years, you do not need 1000's of guys registering if you have good retention rate,

There is still lots of business out there for good quality web sites and thanks to Hollywood probably for a few more years yet. I don't see business going down for me I see it going up, just got to adapt a little bit.

In any case dating sites are the hardest internet business to get off the ground , the fail rate is 99.5% within three years.





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Offline dcguyusa

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Re: Another nail in the coffin for the mail order bride business..
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2017, 06:37:06 PM »
Quote
There are still plenty of 35/40 year old women searching, we have hundreds every week registering.

Probably true anywhere in the world. More single than married people in any area.

Quote
"I'm not satisfied with the quality of members"

I can say the same for myself.   :chuckle:

Quote
Women are no push over anymore

Well, I am no push over either.  Really tired of the letters that emphasize fantasy over reality.   (:) :laugh: :Zzzzsleep:
An uninformed opponent is a dangerous opponent.

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Offline ?ManyQuestions?

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Re: Another nail in the coffin for the mail order bride business..
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2017, 08:34:40 PM »
Hopefully the shysters an charlatans will go belly up. I doubt it though. Hopefully, Alex's business is doing well.



Dating scam: The letters process.

Offline msmoby

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Re: Another nail in the coffin for the mail order bride business..
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2017, 11:50:58 PM »


Well, I am no push over either.  Really tired of the letters that emphasize fantasy over reality.   (:) :laugh: :Zzzzsleep:

What ? ... like having multiple spouses in multiple countries ... :coffeeread:

[check your profile]
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Offline rw_recruiter

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Re: Another nail in the coffin for the mail order bride business..
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2017, 10:01:28 AM »
Agencies will just need to find a different marketing media. They will probably have to start paying their affiliates who can deliver results. Less shaving on the agencies side if they want quality traffic. Unfortunately it is the smaller and more legit agencies who will go under first.


Offline Manny

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Re: Another nail in the coffin for the mail order bride business..
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2017, 12:42:19 PM »
This forum is social media and, sure as shit it has driven a lot of revenue over the years

I'm sure I dont know what you mean. :prophead:

We are at the end of the Russian language mail order bride product life cycle. It isn't  just about the ads, it ain't just about the marketing, it is about the people in the market.

Indeed, they laughed at >this< and >this< back in the day. They are not laughing now. We could all see it coming one way or another.

Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Offline Manny

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Re: Another nail in the coffin for the mail order bride business..
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2017, 12:55:35 PM »
Agencies will just need to find a different marketing media.

There are few. A multi-millionaire agency owner once told me that in this industry, Google (Adwords) is the king-maker.

They will probably have to start paying their affiliates who can deliver results.

Most of them stopped doing that some time ago. We suspended Elena's ads here a long time ago for nonpayment and dishonesty. We got paid what we were owed eventually, but only after a topic here and me offering to put them on page one of Google for their dishonesty and sue them for the money.

Most of the dating industry has been dishonest with affiliates over the years, the dating ads you still see here today are the exception to the rule.
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Online 2tallbill

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Another nail in the coffin for the mail order bride business..
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2017, 12:56:25 PM »

Indeed, they laughed at >this< and >this< back in the day. They are not laughing now. We could all see it coming one way or another.

Are you sure those State links are legit? I am pretty sure that individual states
aren't allowed to do what your links say they do and they would be stepping on
Federal jurisdiction which would be unconstitutional a couple different ways, so
I went looking for those laws and couldn't find them.

FSUW are not for entry level daters. FSUW don't do vague FSUW like a man of action so be a man of action  If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane. There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.
Get an apartment not a hotel. DON'T recycle girls

Offline Manny

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Re: Another nail in the coffin for the mail order bride business..
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2017, 01:22:46 PM »

Indeed, they laughed at >this< and >this< back in the day. They are not laughing now. We could all see it coming one way or another.

Are you sure those State links are legit? I am pretty sure that individual states
aren't allowed to do what your links say they do and they would be stepping on
Federal jurisdiction which would be unconstitutional a couple different ways, so
I went looking for those laws and couldn't find them.

They were well-reported, documented and widely shared at the time. It was a few years ago though, anything could have happened since then.

But as to sources, I just looked and the Texas one is documented on page 19 here: http://www.ncdsv.org/images/TJC_AdvisoryForProsAttysVA-IMBRA-LegalRemediesForAbusedForeignBrides_10-2010.pdf

The Hawaii one here: http://law.justia.com/codes/hawaii/2016/title-26/chapter-489n/section-489n-3

And the Maryland one here: http://law.justia.com/codes/maryland/2013/article-gbr/section-19-603/

As to if those things are law today in the individual states mentioned, I am not qualified to comment on.

I wonder if Andrew's original DOARB document still exists anywhere? The videos do:


Ok, its took seven years........
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Online 2tallbill

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Re: Another nail in the coffin for the mail order bride business..
« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2017, 02:15:45 PM »
But as to sources, I just looked and the Texas one is documented on page 19 here: http://www.ncdsv.org/images/TJC_AdvisoryForProsAttysVA-IMBRA-LegalRemediesForAbusedForeignBrides_10-2010.pdf

The Hawaii one here: http://law.justia.com/codes/hawaii/2016/title-26/chapter-489n/section-489n-3

And the Maryland one here: http://law.justia.com/codes/maryland/2013/article-gbr/section-19-603/

As to if those things are law today in the individual states mentioned, I am not qualified to comment on.

I wonder if Andrew's original DOARB document still exists anywhere? The videos do:

Ok, its took seven years........

Obviously none of this will affect me as I am already happily married.
Some of the States tried to require internet companies based outside
their states all sorts of things, firstly they wanted money, secondly they
wanted to subject companies to the laws of their state.

1992 Supreme Court ruling (Quill v. North Dakota) that bars states from
requiring merchants to collect taxes unless they have a physical presence
in the state, but states have been trying to figure how to get their tentacles
into the internet and out of state companies ever since.

I believe, (but I don't know for a fact) that the states can't impose laws
on a company in a different country that has no physical presence in the
state. 

FSUW are not for entry level daters. FSUW don't do vague FSUW like a man of action so be a man of action  If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane. There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.
Get an apartment not a hotel. DON'T recycle girls

Offline Manny

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Re: Another nail in the coffin for the mail order bride business..
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2017, 02:31:49 PM »
I believe, (but I don't know for a fact) that the states can't impose laws
on a company in a different country that has no physical presence in the
state.

Of course, few laws or rules in the US have any influence outside the US. Why FSU agencies used to laugh at the IMBRA nonsense and tell their clients to say they had met the woman on Facebook or somewhere.

But if Google are now in on it, as it seems, that will cut off the money supply abroad from US customers. Google are starting to become a manipulative monster in many ways in society, relationships and even search as >>this search<< pointed out recently by someone on Twitter shows us and >>this article<< highlights.

Many people (Russians always did by a large majority) are now using Yandex to escape Google's clutches.
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Offline dcguyusa

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Re: Another nail in the coffin for the mail order bride business..
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2017, 05:21:47 PM »


Well, I am no push over either.  Really tired of the letters that emphasize fantasy over reality.   (:) :laugh: :Zzzzsleep:

What ? ... like having multiple spouses in multiple countries ... :coffeeread:

[check your profile]

No, not exactly.  Profile indicates that spouse region is NOT specific for me.
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Offline msmoby

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Re: Another nail in the coffin for the mail order bride business..
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2017, 11:05:40 PM »


Indeed, they laughed at this and this back in the day. They are not laughing now. We could all see it coming one way or another.

I certainly laughed - as the conclusions in the first link were ill-researched and the whole exercise was to coincide with the launch of as 'new format of dating site'  - with the author of said 'report on the demise of the Russian Bride' .

As pointed out then, the BIG change was that FSU ladies didn't need 'Marriage Agencies' - they could write their own profiles - had their own access to the internet and the perceived 'seediness' of the 'Mail order Bride' and pay per letter sites - and the arrival of new DIRECT business models - with less profit for the site owners in arranging apartments, etc., and sites like this means the guy that actually gets on the plane doesn't need as much 'hand-holding'.

The schism in RU-UA relations and war, plus the knowledge that life in the west is not always rosy means that the market contracted, too

Only someone who doesn't go to Russia / Ukraine would suggest that there isn't a market for FSU women seeking a western guy - even Steveboy and I agree on this ;)

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Spurious claims about 'seeing action' with the Blue Berets are debunked >here<

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Offline msmoby

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Re: Another nail in the coffin for the mail order bride business..
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2017, 11:07:44 PM »

No, not exactly.  Profile indicates that spouse region is NOT specific for me.

Spouse = wife

You aren't married - you haven't GOT a wife - you are 'just looking'  ;)

Perhaps the owner can clarify what he (originally) intended for this description

I have never claimed to be a Blue Beret

Spurious claims about 'seeing action' with the Blue Berets are debunked >here<

Here is my Russophobia/Kremlinphobia topic