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Author Topic: Malorossiya  (Read 3640 times)

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Online Markje

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Re: Malorossiya
« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2017, 12:38:31 AM »

I've actually been there, so call me incorrect, I don't care. The majority is Russian, identifies with Russian people and has Pro-russian views. The color of their passport is un-important.

So? So have I  ...  'Interesting' how you NOW - suddenly - dispute figures - some of which are from the Soviet Era

Lets look at those figures in detail shall we?

44% identify as Russian, so they are in a pro-Russian block (44%)

Suppose only 33% (one third) of all Ukrainians are pro-russian.

Whoops, majority.

Smackdown again!

Also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_presidential_election,_2010

Whoops! Smackdown again!

How many voted from Kharkov on Yanukovich? Don't you think you'd vote against a pro-russian candidate if you are not pro-russian?
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Offline msmoby

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Re: The next plan from the north and east .. .. 'Malorossiya'
« Reply #26 on: July 28, 2017, 09:41:59 AM »


Lets look at those figures in detail shall we?

44% identify as Russian, so they are in a pro-Russian block (44%) ( not necessarily so.. let's examine the most recent parliamentary and presidential elections .....

Smackdown again!

'Smackdowns' - are when my posts pointing out your howlers - like this one  - never see the light of day

So, now you are assuming that more eth Ukrainians might side with 'separatists' ?:)))))

Parliamentary Election 2014 - TWO pro EU parties got double the votes of the first place eth Russian' party - they got THRASHED  ! ..


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_parliamentary_election,_2014

Now we'll examine the Presidential elections of 2014:



15 out of 16 Kharkov regions voted for POROSHENKO [grey] - ( all Kharkov city) and Dobkin shaded in blue -  got .... 1 - rural region - bordering ..Russia :)

Your 'riposte' - quoting me an election from 4 years EARLIER :)))

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_presidential_election,_2010

Whoops! Smackdown again!

If these are your  'slapdowns' - I can see why you'd fall for any old guff you read ... Using 7 year old data as opposed to 3 year old ...hardly the act of someone proving a point, eh ? :))

FACT:  Yanu' destroyed Ukraine and the Party of Regions ... who also disavowed him - do keep up

I have never claimed to be a Blue Beret

Spurious claims about 'seeing action' with the Blue Berets are debunked >here<

Here is my Russophobia/Kremlinphobia topic

Offline Manny

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Re: The next plan from the north and east .. .. 'Malorossiya'
« Reply #27 on: July 28, 2017, 10:14:41 AM »
eth Ukrainians

Tell us more about this mysterious Ukrainian ethnicity you speak of and how this secret new race differ to random Russian Slavs?  :whist11:
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.


Offline msmoby

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Re: The next plan from the north and east .. .. 'Malorossiya'
« Reply #28 on: July 28, 2017, 10:19:07 AM »


Tell us more about this mysterious Ukrainian ethnicity you speak of and how this secret new race differ to random Russian Slavs?  :whist11:

I'm 'sorry' - are you disputing the electoral results ?

The census figures - as already pointed out - date back to Soviet times, then Yanu's 'rule' ... 

The point is ... in 204 -  Kharkov (ov) is hardly a 'pro separatist region - other than possibly one region on the RU border... right ?

I have never claimed to be a Blue Beret

Spurious claims about 'seeing action' with the Blue Berets are debunked >here<

Here is my Russophobia/Kremlinphobia topic

Online andrewfi

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Re: Malorossiya
« Reply #29 on: July 28, 2017, 10:30:17 AM »
I see moby still has not been able to gather up the pocket money to pay for his photo hosting.

I am not going to suggest a whip round this time. If a bloke is homeless that's a problem, not being able to afford to share his photos, well, that's a personal thing.

There are people of many different ethnic origins in Ukraine, one ethnic group not represented there is 'Ukrainian'. Ethnicity is not created at the stroke of a drunken pen, rather more is involved, stuff that takes millennia to accomplish.
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Offline Manny

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Re: Malorossiya
« Reply #30 on: July 28, 2017, 12:51:55 PM »
There are people of many different ethnic origins in Ukraine, one ethnic group not represented there is 'Ukrainian'. Ethnicity is not created at the stroke of a drunken pen, rather more is involved, stuff that takes millennia to accomplish.

Moby is spreading the propaganda we have seen with many FSU regions. Post USSR, especially when the US gets its finger in there, there is the "let's pretend we are nothing at all to do with Russia and never have been" thing going on.

I remember Estonia changing every bit of street furniture, signage and even manhole covers that had Cyrillic on them. Not long after, they started moving Soviet statues and began to pretend they were all Scandinavian. Despite the fact that at least a third speak native Russian.  :chuckle:

It may be the case this is what is happening in what remains of Ukraine. There will be a push for Ukrainian language, a de-Russification in schools, etc.

Indeed, in Moby's Wiki link, it attempts to split up Ukrainians and Russians under a banner of "ethnicity" which is patently nonsense.

Someone is trying to re-write history gain and Moby is a useful idiot in that regard by repeating that stuff.
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Online andrewfi

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Re: Malorossiya
« Reply #31 on: July 28, 2017, 01:54:16 PM »
The program ongoing now is, of course, exactly what the good people of Donbas were concerned about and chose to resist.
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Online AvHdB

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Re: The next plan from the north and east .. .. 'Malorossiya'
« Reply #32 on: July 28, 2017, 07:13:28 PM »
eth Ukrainians

Tell us more about this mysterious Ukrainian ethnicity you speak of and how this secret new race differ to random Russian Slavs?  :whist11:

I am not sure I would call it an Ukraine ethnicity (the majority of Russians and Ukrainians are Slavic, that is there ethnicity) but rather an identification within the majority of the Ukraine population with a rejection of most things Russian. It started before the Orange Revolution and has only strengthened since than. Maidan was another moment that rejected Russian meddling in the affairs of Ukraine. But Mother Russia has been doing this for centuries.

The point worth nothing in both Maidan and the Orange revolution the central figure is V. Yanukovych His avarice in the latter led to his downfall and in the first his attempt to steal the election in the first. Bear in mind this person was convicted more than once of serious felonies. What is also almost amusing but really sad many in the government of V. Yanukovych are from the Donbass region and now are forming or attempting to form a new country. This has strengthed the feeling that the current war is a battle between those of new ogliarch (mafia figures) who want to control and manipulate the wealth of the region.

“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

Offline msmoby

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Re: Malorossiya
« Reply #33 on: July 28, 2017, 11:46:12 PM »

Moby is spreading the propaganda we have seen with many FSU regions. Post USSR, especially when the US gets its finger in there, there is the "let's pretend we are nothing at all to do with Russia and never have been" thing going on.

No... Moby responded to Markje's post  - which was emotional - devoid of facts and corrected the notion that Kharkov - like many parts of Donbas - were likely 'fertile ground' for the latest experiment

I'm no more in  favour of Ukraine national history making out the Holodomor famine was targeted at them - given many Soviets who were living in what is now Russia died ....


I remember Estonia changing every bit of street furniture, signage and even manhole covers that had Cyrillic on them. Not long after, they started moving Soviet statues and began to pretend they were all Scandinavian. Despite the fact that at least a third speak native Russian.  :chuckle:

Ask yourself WHY ? WHY did many Estonians think Hitler might be a better bet than living under Moscow rule ? Of course many people spoke Russian - they were imported there  - to alter the balance of population.


It may be the case this is what is happening in what remains of Ukraine. There will be a push for Ukrainian language, a de-Russification in schools, etc.

Indeed, the process started long ago - the UA language being 'the future' - those realising that quickly learnt it. A UA journo I dated was in her early 40's and only spoke Russian - but now speaks Ukrainian...   The move - discussed, briefly - to 'ban' Russian never flew..

It was the aggressive act from Moscow that created an anti-Russian element in UA society - the use of 'Moskal'


Indeed, in Moby's Wiki link, it attempts to split up Ukrainians and Russians under a banner of "ethnicity" which is patently nonsense.

Except 'moby's link' was once SOVIET data, became Ukrainian - and was used in Yanu's rule.....  You are merely demonstrating ignorance- if you suggest such info is 'propaganda' ..


Someone is trying to re-write history gain and Moby is a useful idiot in that regard by repeating that stuff.

IF - that were the case - please explain the 204 electoral results which back up MY contention ?

In the meantime, you carry on trying to 'control' the 'news' and this 'russophobe' will smile knowingly at the 'knowledge' of two guys who haven't been anywhere near these places in over a decade

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Spurious claims about 'seeing action' with the Blue Berets are debunked >here<

Here is my Russophobia/Kremlinphobia topic

Offline msmoby

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Re: The next plan from the north and east .. .. 'Malorossiya'
« Reply #34 on: July 28, 2017, 11:58:20 PM »
This has strengthed the feeling that the current war is a battle between those of new ogliarch (mafia figures) who want to control and manipulate the wealth of the region.

AvHdB, has more of a clue...

To the real 'useful idiots' - this is about 'self-determination' ....   yeah, ri-iight ... 'Self-determination - if it means expansion of territory with resources / potential resources ... 

Ask yourself - which nation further criminalises talk of ceding from the Federation but promotes it within it's neighbours ..? 
I have never claimed to be a Blue Beret

Spurious claims about 'seeing action' with the Blue Berets are debunked >here<

Here is my Russophobia/Kremlinphobia topic

Offline Manny

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Re: The next plan from the north and east .. .. 'Malorossiya'
« Reply #35 on: July 29, 2017, 11:41:31 AM »
Ask yourself - which nation further criminalises talk of ceding from the Federation but promotes it within it's neighbours ..?

The EU actually.  :P

I remember Estonia changing every bit of street furniture, signage and even manhole covers that had Cyrillic on them. Not long after, they started moving Soviet statues and began to pretend they were all Scandinavian. Despite the fact that at least a third speak native Russian.  :chuckle:

Ask yourself WHY ? WHY did many Estonians think Hitler might be a better bet than living under Moscow rule ? Of course many people spoke Russian - they were imported there  - to alter the balance of population.

I'm not as old as you, I don't remember Hitler. I was talking about the early 2000s.



Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Online Markje

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Re: The next plan from the north and east .. .. 'Malorossiya'
« Reply #36 on: July 29, 2017, 02:39:26 PM »
'Smackdowns' - are when my posts pointing out your howlers - like this one  - never see the light of day

So, now you are assuming that more eth Ukrainians might side with 'separatists' ?:)))))

Parliamentary Election 2014 - TWO pro EU parties got double the votes of the first place eth Russian' party - they got THRASHED  ! ..
Eh no, the 2014 elections had absolutely nothing to do with pro/against Russia. There was only 1 real candidate to choose from , Poroshenko. So the people voted for him.

I think that if there was an alternative pro-russian candidate, (s)he'd have gotten the votes from Kharkov.


Your 'riposte' - quoting me an election from 4 years EARLIER :)))
Because that was the last honest election there was, with pro-Russian in fact winning in the end.
The 2014 Election was rigged, with Poroshenko to win. Not because he was pro-EU, or anything, but because (and I will quote the Ukr people here:)
He was already rich, so no need to steal from us poor people anymore. Hopefully he will fight the corruption that grips the government was well.

Sad, neither of those things proved true now in hindsight.


Quote
FACT:  Yanu' destroyed Ukraine and the Party of Regions ... who also disavowed him - do keep up
Yanu did nothing of the sort, he was deposed and had to flee for his life. When in fact, he did have good and very real/solid reasons to not back the EU-agreement.

In fact, I dare say that Ukraine has gone down the drain so far they will never be able to crawl back out without billions and billions and billions of currency-gifts from more sane environments.
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Online andrewfi

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Re: Malorossiya
« Reply #37 on: July 30, 2017, 02:25:52 AM »
Certainly, the concerns of Yanukovych were shown to be absolutely spot on. Not that those concerns should have been invsible to any decently educated Ukrainian who read the association agreement.

Sadly very few people did read the agreement and Yanukovych came rather too late to a position of understanding. His attempts to ameliorate the worst economic effects were rebuffed by the EU. Given his actions at the time he was probably expecting the kind of activities that happened but severely underestimated the degree of external interference that was to be unleashed upon Ukraine.
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Offline Tom Cat

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Re: Malorossiya
« Reply #38 on: August 09, 2017, 03:39:30 PM »
OPINION

PUTIN IS STILL IN DENIAL OVER THE LOSS OF UKRAINE

http://www.newsweek.com/putin-still-denial-over-loss-ukraine-648368
Don't shoot the messenger, links to articles posted, don't necessarily reflect my personal opinion.

Offline msmoby

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Re: The next plan from the north and east .. .. 'Malorossiya'
« Reply #39 on: August 10, 2017, 02:44:04 AM »

Eh no, the 2014 elections had absolutely nothing to do with pro/against Russia. There was only 1 real candidate to choose from , Poroshenko. So the people voted for him.

 :chuckle:

I think that if there was an alternative pro-russian candidate, (s)he'd have gotten the votes from Kharkov.

Ah yes, Dobkin was a figment of my imagination ...  What IS it with folks in denial trying to rewrite recent historical FACT ...or ignore it ?


Your 'riposte' - quoting me an election from 4 years EARLIER :)))

Because that was the last honest election there was, with pro-Russian in fact winning in the end.
The 2014 Election was rigged, with Poroshenko to win. Not because he was pro-EU, or anything, but because (and I will quote the Ukr people here:)

NOT what observers declared - plenty of cause for concern - but as ususal - more in the east of the country ..

He was already rich, so no need to steal from us poor people anymore. Hopefully he will fight the corruption that grips the government was well.

Now you are making it up on the fly ...  Yanu's own political party makes it clear in their disavowing of him - how he plundered the state treasuries and awarded contracts to his own family - one of his sons became rich and feared...




[quote moby - quoting FACT ]
FACT:  Yanu' destroyed Ukraine and the Party of Regions ... who also disavowed him - do keep up
[/quote]

Yanu did nothing of the sort, he was deposed and had to flee for his life. When in fact, he did have good and very real/solid reasons to not back the EU-agreement.

 Markje - his own party announced his dismissal and stated they were disavowing him - he brought shame on them

His reasons for doing a volte-face are indeed debatable...  Shame he was spirited away - with Russian help - rather than face his crimes

In fact, I dare say that Ukraine has gone down the drain so far they will never be able to crawl back out without billions and billions and billions of currency-gifts from more sane environments.

Those who can be honest in appraising the situation can see that there's still a culture of power corrupting absolutely - but over-looking the cost of civil war - sponsored by a neighbour in deed and physically is plain buying one's head in the sand
I have never claimed to be a Blue Beret

Spurious claims about 'seeing action' with the Blue Berets are debunked >here<

Here is my Russophobia/Kremlinphobia topic

Offline Wiz

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Re: Malorossiya
« Reply #40 on: August 10, 2017, 03:08:43 PM »
Quote
Your 'riposte' - quoting me an election from 4 years EARLIER :)))

Because that was the last honest election there was, with pro-Russian in fact winning in the end.

The 2014 Election was rigged, with Poroshenko to win. Not because he was pro-EU, or anything, but because (and I will quote the Ukr people here:)

He was already rich, so no need to steal from us poor people anymore. Hopefully he will fight the corruption that grips the government was well.

Sad, neither of those things proved true now in hindsight.

FACT:  Yanu' destroyed Ukraine and the Party of Regions ... who also disavowed him - do keep up

Yanu did nothing of the sort, he was deposed and had to flee for his life. When in fact, he did have good and very real/solid reasons to not back the EU-agreement.

In fact, I dare say that Ukraine has gone down the drain so far they will never be able to crawl back out without billions and billions and billions of currency-gifts from more sane environments.

Now you are making it up on the fly ...  Yanu's own political party makes it clear in their disavowing of him - how he plundered the state treasuries and awarded contracts to his own family - one of his sons became rich and feared...

FACT:  Yanu' destroyed Ukraine and the Party of Regions ... who also disavowed him - do keep up

Yanu did nothing of the sort, he was deposed and had to flee for his life. When in fact, he did have good and very real/solid reasons to not back the EU-agreement.

Markje - his own party announced his dismissal and stated they were disavowing him - he brought shame on them

His reasons for doing a volte-face are indeed debatable...  Shame he was spirited away - with Russian help - rather than face his crimes

Moby

You have definitely passed the point of no return. I still have friends in Corfu and happily I will ask them to make everything possible for you to be accepted at the Asylum Mental Hospital.

I have never ever met anybody else on these boards who distorts, twist and falsify the true events of history. Everybody knows, by now, what took place in Kiev and also in Crimea but you, like a broken record continue answering the same crap.
“Yanu and his party…. Blah Blah Blah”…… He said Tomato and you replied Potato.
Definitely you are a prime candidate to be accepted at the asylum!

Markj was talking about the 2014 elections and why the Ukrainian people voted for Poroshenko and you are talking about Yanukovich, when Mark has already answered your comments about him and his running for his life. Then you continue the same tactic, like they do with the US "Fake news", by repeating the same thing you expect people to be manipulated and believe your crap

To be honest I don’t know why Mark continues talking to you and tolerate your efforts, of distorting, twisting and falsifying the true events.

Is that the line from the office? I am surprised that the Russians still let you in!

BTW the Crimea case is not the same as the Cyprus invasion by Turkey supported by the UK who was a Guarantor country and did nothing to stop Turkey! Your Navy boats and the Bases could stop them but …… you did not and that is a fact.

Remember history: Crimea was part of Russia since 1783, N. Chrutsov when Ukraine was part of the USSR, gave to them because of its geographic position but as an independent republic and Kiev had no say in its internal affairs. Most of the people were/are  Russians, especially after Staling exiled the Tatars….. and they had a referendum, in compliance with the UN rules about self determination and they decided to join mother Russia. Not the same like the US and UK did in Kossovo!

The only connection between Crimea and the Cyprus invasion, they both are part of the wider plan by the USA, UK and NATO to attack Russia. The island is divided  because the US, UK and NATO were afraid that Cyprus, not a member of NATO, would offer a base to Russia. Turkey and the Baltic States are part of NATO and Russia, finally has been encircled. Cyprus is the Key for controlling the East Mediterranean and the Arab countries and from Akrotiri, daily the US and UK are bombing Syria.

 :sick0012: tiphat
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Online Markje

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Re: The next plan from the north and east .. .. 'Malorossiya'
« Reply #41 on: August 12, 2017, 03:21:26 PM »
Ah yes, Dobkin was a figment of my imagination ...  What IS it with folks in denial trying to rewrite recent historical FACT ...or ignore it ?
Despite it not being my favorite country, I apparently do know a whole lot more than you about Ukraine's political situation, thanks to my wife who does keep up.

Maybe you can google " Akhmetov's puppy" in Russian and get why people don't vote for this guy. Same goes for allllll the others. Poroshenko was one , and only 1 candidate who was more or less a sane choice.


He was already rich, so no need to steal from us poor people anymore. Hopefully he will fight the corruption that grips the government was well.

Now you are making it up on the fly ...  Yanu's own political party makes it clear in their disavowing of him - how he plundered the state treasuries and awarded contracts to his own family - one of his sons became rich and feared...
If only you were right, because my quote made a mockery of democracy as its a very bad reason to vote for candidates.... yet it is true, and a sad democracy Ukraine is.

Perhaps you need again to search Yandex.ru in Russian and you will find my quotes remarkably accurate.



Quote
Markje - his own party announced his dismissal and stated they were disavowing him - he brought shame on them
And they knew this in 2010 how ?

Do keep your mind set on a timeline and do not use facts from 4 years later to somehow disprove the earlier ones. Time travel is still impossible as far as I know, so facts from 2014 have nothing to do with 2010.

Quote
His reasons for doing a volte-face are indeed debatable...  Shame he was spirited away - with Russian help - rather than face his crimes
Shame he had to flee for his life, instead of having a legal impeachment procedure followed.

right back at 'ya.

Those who can be honest in appraising the situation can see that there's still a culture of power corrupting absolutely - but over-looking the cost of civil war - sponsored by a neighbour in deed and physically is plain buying one's head in the sand

Right. If only those pesky russians would go away, then we could bomb the region back to the stoneage and annex its empty lands as the previous people (donbass) are now all dead.
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Offline dcguyusa

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Re: Malorossiya
« Reply #42 on: August 31, 2018, 05:41:50 PM »
An uninformed opponent is a dangerous opponent.

"Y'all be makin shit up" ~ Markeith Loyd

Online andrewfi

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Re: Malorossiya
« Reply #43 on: August 31, 2018, 06:54:53 PM »
Terribly sad news. A good man and a good leader.
As happened with Zakarchenko, I hope that once again the saying 'come the hour cometh the man' proves true and that his successor is worthy of his call.
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!


 

 

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