Owning a car in Ukraine.

[justadude]

I am in Ukraine now, and am interested in purchasing a car at some point in the next one to two years. I do not want advice on whether or not car ownership is a good idea. I am pretty sure it is a bad idea, but if I move to Ukraine permanently or semi-permanently, I will have a car. The reason is that I am a car enthusiast and I can't imagine life without my hobby. Along those lines, I am not a typical car owner. I repair my cars myself back home in the USA, and I would intend to do so here as well. I realize this presents challenges, as having a place to work on a car seems uncommon here. I would prefer to buy a car from a private party. I am certain of my ability to determine if a car is a good deal if I can see it in person, which of course I would do before buying. But I would like to know about the paperwork involved, registration and insurance, and how to communicate with a seller since I don't speak Russian. I did look at some used cars in April, at a sales lot where private sellers had cars on display, and saw some that I would consider in the $3-5000 range.

Here are a few of my questions:

1. Is there a website similar to Craigslist in Kiev where I can make contact with private sellers?

2. What is the registration process like? How much is annual registration, taxes and other fees?

3. Are there wrecking yards in Kiev where you can buy used parts?

4. Are there any apartment buildings that have garage spaces one can rent for an additional fee?

5. How do I find insurance and how much does it cost?

6. If I am involved in an accident, is it necessary to establish whose fault it was or is there a no fault system in place? I am concerned that I would be at a great disadvantage by not knowing the system or the language.

[rw_recruiter]

I do not have any experience here except that I know you need to have a dashcam installed in Ukraine in the event of an accident. Especially if you are a foreigner or have less money than the other guy driving a Mercedes.

[el_guero]

Justadude,

Until you have number 6 defined very well, DO NOT drive a car in Ukraine. In Ukraine, you do establish fault. And if the other driver establishes you as at fault, and the police agree. You are mostly stuck.

The reason almost everyone has a dash cam is no one trusts the other driver. And they do not trust police, mafia, judges, politicians, etc.

Insurance is not difficult, but I won't drive in Ukraine - maybe a moped someday. Public transportation is too easy. And the roads tear a good car apart.

Wayne

[yankee]

Justadude,

Until you have number 6 defined very well, DO NOT drive a car in Ukraine. In Ukraine, you do establish fault. And if the other driver establishes you as at fault, and the police agree. You are mostly stuck.

The reason almost everyone has a dash cam is no one trusts the other driver. And they do not trust police, mafia, judges, politicians, etc.

Insurance is not difficult, but I won't drive in Ukraine - maybe a moped someday. Public transportation is too easy. And the roads tear a good car apart.

Wayne

In most of the 3rd world countries that I have worked/visited their philosophy is very simple.  It is your fault.    Had you not been in the country the accident would not have happened.  SOP was to insure that one could leave the country in a hurry and leave as soon as you can.

[Maxx]

I am driving in the FSU in the Republic of Georgia. What my insurance agent told me was in event of an accident I was to.

1) Call them and tell them where I am. I am insured in Georgia, Azerbaijan, Armenia and Turkey.
2) Call the police (they gave me the number to call)
3) Do NOT move the vehicle until the insurance adjuster gets there or the police and the police make the report and/or tell you to move the car off the road.

And within a week (two weeks ago) I had an accident with a aggressively driven taxi cab. NOT wanting me to call the police the cabbie offered to pay for the damages himself. So we drove to a nearby body shop. The estimate for repair was $50 which the cabbie was delighted to pay. The bumper was removed and I was told to come back on Monday two days ago. It was installed in about 30 minutes. Looks great. I didn't pay a dime. I found out later most people either work it out together or pay their own damages. The real reason they don't want the insurance company or police involved isn't so much because it leads to higher insurance rates, it is because the police are quick to give out fines usually around $360-$400. That is a lot of money here. Not speaking Georgian, well frankly, it is a bit intimidating to drive.

[msmoby]

I drive in Russia and have comprehensive insurance ( must have it if the car is on finance )

I drive CAREFULLY, leaving big gaps - braking to turn without indicating is more often the rule and allow for buses that are stopped to pull out at any moment

Following SC experiencing a couple of encounters with policemen seeking to supplement their income - I'd concur with buying a decent crashcam - as locals inform me that that is one of the first things Police look for.
((

[Maxx]

I drive CAREFULLY, leaving big gaps - braking to turn without indicating is more often the rule and allow for buses that are stopped to pull out at any moment

I do the same. And I also try not to use the lane that goes by the parked cars. Too many people double park and assume double parking is an OK thing to do. To just pull over and suddenly stop on a busy road. Of course I should expect this as people here drive on the sidewalks, park over the curbs and do just about anything they want. After 45 years of driving in a civilized country like America these unknowns can be disconcerting. Another thing that bothers me is the water drainage ditches that if I drove my right front tire into one my entire car would fall into it with a sudden grinding stop as the bottom of my car hit the pavement. Then there is these mountain roads that don't always have barriers. Some of these drops are hundreds of feet. And the crazy drivers that will pass on a two lane road doing 100 KPH and making the oncoming driver also doing 100 KPH needing to drive in the ditch. Dang I'm scaring myself!   

[Ste]

I’d never drive in any European major city now unless I had too, public transport is too good - cheap and frequent (note: except  UK), there’s just no need. Here in Dublin I pay €100 a month for all bus, train and tram in the City, which extends quite far actually, to Malahide for example.

Miss a car for travelling about at weekends though, been having a sneaky peek...

[justadude]

And within a week (two weeks ago) I had an accident with a aggressively driven taxi cab. NOT wanting me to call the police the cabbie offered to pay for the damages himself. So we drove to a nearby body shop. The estimate for repair was $50 which the cabbie was delighted to pay. The bumper was removed and I was told to come back on Monday two days ago. It was installed in about 30 minutes. Looks great. I didn't pay a dime. I found out later most people either work it out together or pay their own damages. The real reason they don't want the insurance company or police involved isn't so much because it leads to higher insurance rates, it is because the police are quick to give out fines usually around $360-$400. That is a lot of money here. Not speaking Georgian, well frankly, it is a bit intimidating to drive.

Quite an interesting story. Obviously this is just one event. But it's interesting that he didn't try to take advantage of you since you're a foreigner.

[justadude]

Also, what kind of car did you buy? Did you buy it second hand? How much did you pay? How much are insurance and other costs? Do you like answering lots of questions?

[msmoby]

Also, what kind of car did you buy? Did you buy it second hand? How much did you pay? How much are insurance and other costs? Do you like answering lots of questions?

It's all in his life in Georgia thread !

[andrewfi]

Quite an interesting story. Obviously this is just one event. But it's interesting that he didn't try to take advantage of you since you're a foreigner.

In truth, perhaps the guy DID take advantage!
The repair was done by a bloke that the taxi driver knew. There's no way to know how well the job was done, but, for sure, for the money it cost it was not done properly, not in any city in the northern hemisphere. Whether the job satisfied Maxx, or not, is a whole other matter.

The question I'd ask myself is this: what if there was hidden damage? All that's been done is pop out the plastic bumper, load it with bodge if the heat gun didn't get the thing smooth, and then spray it. Is the paint the right kind of paint, designed to adhere to plastic bumpers? Was there any damage hidden from view? Does the job leave Maxx in the same situation as if the incident hadn't happened?

The taxi driver knew that he was getting away with murder, of course he was happy.

By the way, I had a wall related parking incident a few weeks ago. Reversing into a tight car park whilst overly tired and ignored the parking sensors. Result one badly pushed in and grazed bumper. On Saturday I had the car valeted (detailed). The guy doing the work offered to get the dent out. The paint was damaged so there was no way he was going to get a perfect job but for €10 he got to work with a heat gun, a water spray and a long bit of wood. 15 minutes later and the bumper was looking *almost* right. It'll still need rubbing down, filling and painting but today I touched in the black bits with my 'emergency paint' and a fine brush and, if the previous damage was visible at 20m, now it is a 5 meter result. But I expect that taking the thing off, refinishing, painting, and remounting perfectly is going to cost me a good couple of hundred Euros, probably more, back in Tallinn.

[Maxx]

Quite an interesting story. Obviously this is just one event. But it's interesting that he didn't try to take advantage of you since you're a foreigner.

In truth, perhaps the guy DID take advantage!
The repair was done by a bloke that the taxi driver knew. There's no way to know how well the job was done, but, for sure, for the money it cost it was not done properly, not in any city in the northern hemisphere. Whether the job satisfied Maxx, or not, is a whole other matter.

Much of the business that goes on here is a ripoff, even ordering items off of www.menu.ge expect not to get the food looking anywhere near what is in the photo. Or it is totally inedible either by taste or having the ability to be chewed. I ordered an 'Egg Ben[edict]' the other day that's hollandaise sauce tasted nothing like anything I've ever tasted before and the English muffin was so tough it took a very sharp knife to cut it. The ham slice was Spam. I am thinking, "Doesn't the restauranteur have any pride on what he is serving?" "Has he even tried tasting what he serves?" "Doesn't he want my repeat business?"  I'm well past the honeymoon phase and into the irritation phase of my culture shock. There are good things here, you just got to know where to look for them.

[andrewfi]

Let's be right. You are no longer in Kansas, Toto. The restaurateur has never been to the United States, never seen an English Muffin. Eggs Benedict is even more foreign to him than I.

How about learning to eat the local provender? Why not buy a few pots and pans and learn to cook for yourself?

Where I live, in a much more advanced, cosmopolitan, city I don't expect anyone to cook me battered cod, chips, mushy peas and gravy. Why on earth would you expect a Georgian cook to be able able prepare for you an American delicacy?

While you may be going through the whiney stage of culture shock you still need to maintain a modicum of contact with the real world.

By the way, I took a look at that site. A thing that stood out like a big sore thumb was that the images of food items were simply stock images or lifted from other sites. As is normal, food photography is costly. Most places can't afford it. So, here you have bars and restaurants run by local folks catering, in no small part, to bubble people. The business owners have no idea about how to prepare the stuff they are providing but it is cheap and they are trying. But there's no way on God's sweet earth that the food you order is going to look like the pics absent some kind of happy accident - unless you order local food and then, maybe there's a chance.

[Maxx]

Let's be right. You are no longer in Kansas, Toto. The restaurateur has never been to the United States, never seen an English Muffin. Eggs Benedict is even more foreign to him than I.

How about learning to eat the local provender? Why not buy a few pots and pans and learn to cook for yourself?

Where I live, in a much more advanced, cosmopolitan, city I don't expect anyone to cook me battered cod, chips, mushy peas and gravy. Why on earth would you expect a Georgian cook to be able able prepare for you an American delicacy?

While you may be going through the whiney stage of culture shock you still need to maintain a modicum of contact with the real world.

By the way, I took a look at that site. A thing that stood out like a big sore thumb was that the images of food items were simply stock images or lifted from other sites. As is normal, food photography is costly. Most places can't afford it. So, here you have bars and restaurants run by local folks catering, in no small part, to bubble people. The business owners have no idea about how to prepare the stuff they are providing but it is cheap and they are trying. But there's no way on God's sweet earth that the food you order is going to look like the pics absent some kind of happy accident - unless you order local food and then, maybe there's a chance.

I am not complaining just making observations. And I do cook for myself. There is a place at menu.ge called Pita Fresh that makes an excellent Chicken Caesar Salad Pita. Another place called Thai something that has an excellent chicken noodle soup at a reasonable cost. I know a lot American expats open restaurants thinking they will get rich introducing genuine American food. The problem is the locals don't always like it because their taste is used to their own food. The McDonalds here (about 5 stores) do real well. But every time I've eaten at one I always notice a difference in the taste compared to back home. I think it is the ketchup. It is sweeter in the States. I have yet to get a decent hotdog. They cut the sausage into sections layered with cucumbers, tomatoes and an awful sauce.