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Author Topic: Observations From Trip 3  (Read 2074 times)

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Offline justadude

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Observations From Trip 3
« on: July 01, 2017, 06:44:33 AM »
I have been to Ukraine twice before. I got into a relationship (engagement, in fact) with a woman whom I saw on those two trips. Things didn't work out for us. You can read about it elsewhere on this forum if interested.

I am now 10 days into a 7 week stay. On this trip I resolved not to jump hastily into a relationship, but am hoping to date while I'm here. Things aren't going as well as I had hoped. I have been on 5 or 6 dates so far. In each of those cases, either one or both of us didn't want to go on a second. Two of the women I met in person on the street and we had a "right now" date. The others I met online.

I have gotten about 10 phone numbers of women I've met just being out and about. And another 15-20 from women I've met online, including some I met online before my trip. I have been working a little while here, which has helped me to meet people. In fact, one of the bosses I work for is a cool dude who welcomed me to his VIP table at a club where I ran into him. I am going to try to make only "I" and "me" statements, because I don't wish to suggest that anyone else would have the same experiences as me. Here are some of my observations.

1. Women in Ukraine are just as likely to flake on me as they are in the suburban area of the state I live in back home.

2. The average Ukrainian woman is considerably more attractive than the average woman back home.

3. Women are willing to accept a greater age gap and greater attractiveness gap here than back home. How much of a difference? Maybe 25%?

4. Significantly larger numbers of attractive women make it into their 30's without marrying or reproducing here than back home.

5. The average woman puts much more effort into her appearance than back home.

6. Women here are generally quite a bit thinner than their back home counterparts.

7. There are women here who are not HWP (height weight proportional), but not as many as back home. See item 6.

8. Women I have met online here are just as likely to be misleading about their pictures as women back home.

9. My confidence is a huge factor in my ability to meet women. The last few days my confidence has waned.

10. Asking the question "Do you speak English" is a decent conversation starter 40% of the time. If a woman says "nyet", I have no chance, if she says "no", it's still probably not worth the effort, if she says "so-so", there is some chance I'll get a number, if she says "a little", that will usually be accompanied by a shy smile and I'll probably get a number.

11. I think so far getting a phone number has led to an actual date 0% of the time. I still have a couple of leads. I suspect the actual percentage might be closer to 10, maybe about the same as back home.

12.  Women here  universally expect me to pay the bill on a first date. Back home, this probably is true 1/3 of the time.

13. Every few days I resolve never to try to meet anyone online again. Then I change my mind and search that way again.

14. As with back home, having a wing man is a huge boost to my confidence and chances. However, wing men are hard to find. I have hung out with a co-worker a couple times. Really cool guy and somewhat like-minded about women, but more relaxed about it.

15. I should relax more about it and not try so hard. I try too hard back home as well, and it is often self-defeating. I have not been completely unsuccessful back home, however. I was married to, and reproduced with, a very cute and smart girl, and have dated and been in relationships with other quality women. I hope I don't sound too conceited, because I feel more like a failure than a success at the moment. I know I have potential, but I don't always feel that way.

16. The public transportation system here isn't too confusing anymore since I learned a little bit about it how it works. It's often faster for me to use it than to use Uber.

17. There are multiple liquids that look like milk at the grocery store but turn out to be something thick and disappointing when I try to pour them on my cornflakes.

18. Some restaurants won't serve me a meal even when they are open. I suspect it is too close to closing time, or maybe they won't seat an individual because they want to save their tables for parties bigger than one. If I spoke Russian I think I would know the answer to this quandary.

19. A paradox is that the younger women I meet generally speak better English. Older women, early to mid 30's, who are more realistically in my age range, don't speak English as well. I suspect this is because it has been longer since they were in school, and also because learning English is becoming more of a pursuit as time goes on.

20. I think there are some secrets to succeeding at this that I don't know. I hope to find out.

That's all I can think of for now. Open to constructive criticism.


Online Maxx

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Re: Observations From Trip 3
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2017, 08:49:01 AM »

17. There are multiple liquids that look like milk at the grocery store but turn out to be something thick and disappointing when I try to pour them on my cornflakes.


That has happened to me twice living in the Republic of Georgia. Now I look for the Russian word for milk or the English word milk. The other stuff I think is buttermilk and has a sour taste to it. It also tastes terrible in coffee. 

Offline el_guero

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Re: Observations From Trip 3
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2017, 06:37:06 PM »

17. There are multiple liquids that look like milk at the grocery store but turn out to be something thick and disappointing when I try to pour them on my cornflakes.


That has happened to me twice living in the Republic of Georgia. Now I look for the Russian word for milk or the English word milk. The other stuff I think is buttermilk and has a sour taste to it. It also tastes terrible in coffee.

Moloko (молоко) is milk in Russian. Although, Ukrainian is often on items in the store.

Kefir (кефир) is like a fermented drink.

And there is butter milk.

Below is a photo of Kefir in the foreground and milk in the back. Also, the have percentages. And all milks taste different.

And I get spoiled milk more often in Ukraine.

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://russia-travel-guide.com/cuisine/images/russia-cuisine-kefir-3.jpg&imgrefurl=http://russia-travel-guide.com/cuisine/kefir.php&h=800&w=863&tbnid=y2uAfX7sSVV9rM:&tbnh=160&tbnw=172&usg=__4MrTfoZ6meNTeNYtXDWC0rV2dYI=&vet=1&docid=duQeyDgVZ2M2WM&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjk2_HvrenUAhVk5IMKHcm2B0kQ9QEIKDAA


Offline el_guero

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Re: Observations From Trip 3
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2017, 06:55:27 PM »

1. Women in Ukraine are just as likely to flake on me as they are in the suburban area of the state I live in back home.

2. The average Ukrainian woman is considerably more attractive than the average woman back home.

3. Women are willing to accept a greater age gap and greater attractiveness gap here than back home. How much of a difference? Maybe 25%?

4. Significantly larger numbers of attractive women make it into their 30's without marrying or reproducing here than back home.

5. The average woman puts much more effort into her appearance than back home.

6. Women here are generally quite a bit thinner than their back home counterparts.

7. There are women here who are not HWP (height weight proportional), but not as many as back home. See item 6.

8. Women I have met online here are just as likely to be misleading about their pictures as women back home.

9. My confidence is a huge factor in my ability to meet women. The last few days my confidence has waned.

10. Asking the question "Do you speak English" is a decent conversation starter 40% of the time. If a woman says "nyet", I have no chance, if she says "no", it's still probably not worth the effort, if she says "so-so", there is some chance I'll get a number, if she says "a little", that will usually be accompanied by a shy smile and I'll probably get a number.

11. I think so far getting a phone number has led to an actual date 0% of the time. I still have a couple of leads. I suspect the actual percentage might be closer to 10, maybe about the same as back home.

12.  Women here  universally expect me to pay the bill on a first date. Back home, this probably is true 1/3 of the time.

13. Every few days I resolve never to try to meet anyone online again. Then I change my mind and search that way again.

14. As with back home, having a wing man is a huge boost to my confidence and chances. However, wing men are hard to find. I have hung out with a co-worker a couple times. Really cool guy and somewhat like-minded about women, but more relaxed about it.

15. I should relax more about it and not try so hard. I try too hard back home as well, and it is often self-defeating. I have not been completely unsuccessful back home, however. I was married to, and reproduced with, a very cute and smart girl, and have dated and been in relationships with other quality women. I hope I don't sound too conceited, because I feel more like a failure than a success at the moment. I know I have potential, but I don't always feel that way.

16. The public transportation system here isn't too confusing anymore since I learned a little bit about it how it works. It's often faster for me to use it than to use Uber.

17. There are multiple liquids that look like milk at the grocery store but turn out to be something thick and disappointing when I try to pour them on my cornflakes.

18. Some restaurants won't serve me a meal even when they are open. I suspect it is too close to closing time, or maybe they won't seat an individual because they want to save their tables for parties bigger than one. If I spoke Russian I think I would know the answer to this quandary.

19. A paradox is that the younger women I meet generally speak better English. Older women, early to mid 30's, who are more realistically in my age range, don't speak English as well. I suspect this is because it has been longer since they were in school, and also because learning English is becoming more of a pursuit as time goes on.

20. I think there are some secrets to succeeding at this that I don't know. I hope to find out.

That's all I can think of for now. Open to constructive criticism.

1: Not sure about that. Many of the women I have gone out with have been flaky, but I am an old ugly dude.

2: Really?

3: Pretty much.

4: Not sure. There are a LOT of kids where I live.

5: Really?

6: Really?

7: HWP?

8: Yes, on-line dating is a bad thing.

9: Confidence is mostly everything (NOTE - *)

10: "Do you speak English" I guess that is a start.

11: Confidence?

12: Many of them have never been to a real restaurant outside of a major celebration, graduation.

13: Smart

14: You need a helper. A mutual friend, not a wingman.

15: Confidence?

16: Buses are great.

17: see previous post.

18: I have never experienced that, unless they were closed.

19: Younger women were taught English in school, 30'sish were in the in between, and older were taught a LOT of Russian.

20: Confidence?

NOTE: You are trying too hard. You are going for the kill, and the girls are still trying to figure you out. IMHO.

Which city are you in? A LOT to do with local culture.

Offline justadude

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Re: Observations From Trip 3
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2017, 12:22:53 AM »
Which city are you in?

el_guero, I sent you a couple PM's a few weeks ago because it looked like our visits might overlap. Did you get them?

dude

Online andrewfi

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Re: Observations From Trip 3
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2017, 05:30:31 AM »
If you are staying in Ukraine for a while then you will need a network.

This is sales again.

A sales person will tell you that the best prospects are almost always refers from previous clients or from other prospects where a sale was not made. That's because the referral is already qualified as being a good match for your product and trust is already established.

Same, same with dating. Don't reject women who are interested in you but you are not interested in them. Recruit them into your network. These women will enhance your social life and introduce you to women in whom you are interested.

Women are much better members of your network than men are. Men are your competitors and they will use you to further their goals. Women have different goals and those goals are largely compatible with yours. Don't forget, not every meeting with a woman is a date.

"For what else is the life of man but a kind of play in which men in various costumes perform until the director motions them offstage?" -Erasmus

Online Maxx

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Re: Observations From Trip 3
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2017, 09:21:52 AM »

17. There are multiple liquids that look like milk at the grocery store but turn out to be something thick and disappointing when I try to pour them on my cornflakes.


That has happened to me twice living in the Republic of Georgia. Now I look for the Russian word for milk or the English word milk. The other stuff I think is buttermilk and has a sour taste to it. It also tastes terrible in coffee.


Kefir (кефир) is like a fermented drink.


I hate that stuff. Remember that TV series in the 80s - 90s about Aliens who would get drunk on sour milk?

Online yankee

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Re: Observations From Trip 3
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2017, 10:08:41 AM »

17. There are multiple liquids that look like milk at the grocery store but turn out to be something thick and disappointing when I try to pour them on my cornflakes.


That has happened to me twice living in the Republic of Georgia. Now I look for the Russian word for milk or the English word milk. The other stuff I think is buttermilk and has a sour taste to it. It also tastes terrible in coffee.


Kefir (кефир) is like a fermented drink.


I hate that stuff. Remember that TV series in the 80s - 90s about Aliens who would get drunk on sour milk?

For as long as I can remember, my wife has tried to get me to eat that stuff.  I still tell her "no" :sick0012:
What is worse than not being able to get what you don't even want?

Online andrewfi

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Re: Observations From Trip 3
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2017, 11:39:54 AM »
Try it, give it a chance. She puts up with much worse from you.

"For what else is the life of man but a kind of play in which men in various costumes perform until the director motions them offstage?" -Erasmus

Offline justadude

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Re: Observations From Trip 3
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2017, 01:37:10 PM »
If you are staying in Ukraine for a while then you will need a network.

This is sales again.

A sales person will tell you that the best prospects are almost always refers from previous clients or from other prospects where a sale was not made. That's because the referral is already qualified as being a good match for your product and trust is already established.

Same, same with dating. Don't reject women who are interested in you but you are not interested in them. Recruit them into your network. These women will enhance your social life and introduce you to women in whom you are interested.

Women are much better members of your network than men are. Men are your competitors and they will use you to further their goals. Women have different goals and those goals are largely compatible with yours. Don't forget, not every meeting with a woman is a date.

This sounds like excellent advice. I appreciate it and will try it.

Offline el_guero

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Re: Observations From Trip 3
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2017, 01:41:02 PM »
Just a dude.

We will overlap.

Kiev? Kiev? Women there are sexually harassed by local men. Watch their body language as they wait for buses.

Odessa? Around Derivasivskay St., it is similar.

Get away from foreigners. Nobody, except prostitutes and their handlers, like too many foreigners.

:)

Wayne

Offline justadude

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Re: Observations From Trip 3
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2017, 01:44:05 PM »
I doubt there are too many of you waiting for updates, but I had a better day today. My next door neighbor, a cute 31yo brunette, had left a note on my door a few days ago. We had lunch today. Very fun.

 Then I had coffee this evening with a girl I met on line. She was really attractive. I think I was a little bit intimidated by her good looks so I wasn't at my best as a conversationalist.

Offline el_guero

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Re: Observations From Trip 3
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2017, 01:49:05 PM »
I doubt there are too many of you waiting for updates, but I had a better day today. My next door neighbor, a cute 31yo brunette, had left a note on my door a few days ago. We had lunch today. Very fun.

 Then I had coffee this evening with a girl I met on line. She was really attractive. I think I was a little bit intimidated by her good looks so I wasn't at my best as a conversationalist.

Don't let looks overload you in Ukraine. Took me 10 weeks to get past the progesterone and estrogen overload myself.

Keep up the good work.

Wayne

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Observations From Trip 3
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2017, 02:29:26 PM »
I doubt there are too many of you waiting for updates, but I had a better day today. My next door neighbor, a cute 31yo brunette, had left a note on my door a few days ago. We had lunch today. Very fun.

 Then I had coffee this evening with a girl I met on line. She was really attractive. I think I was a little bit intimidated by her good looks so I wasn't at my best as a conversationalist.

It's even happened to me. My response?
"Wow, you are so beautiful that I totally forgot what I was saying!"
"That must happen to you all the time!"
She will say something like not at all, or that there are so many beautiful
girls in Ukraine etc, to which I say
"There must be something in the water that makes all the men in Kiev
blind, first they ignore you, and have you seen them drive?"

THEN ask her about what she does for fun,

or

Here is one of my all time special never before revealed secret questions
to ask a girl. 

"What is the prettiest view/place in Kiev? " (except for the one at this table) 
"Will you show you me this place?"
What is her favorite place on the river, the mountains, etc.?
Of course you would love to see these places too. Lead her down the path
to meeting again and always moving forward in the relationship. She is
proud of the beautiful places in her country and city and obviously she
likes these places, because she just told you that they are her favorite.

The hottest girls have to date somebody there is no reason that this
somebody shouldn't be you. 

That's all for today Grasshopper.

   
UspEhov!
(have success)

Popka!


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because, it was just collecting dust
Why do spies never use capitalization? Because they like to stay low-key

Offline justadude

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Re: Observations From Trip 3
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2017, 11:25:00 PM »

It's even happened to me. My response?
"Wow, you are so beautiful that I totally forgot what I was saying!"
"That must happen to you all the time!"
She will say something like not at all, or that there are so many beautiful
girls in Ukraine etc, to which I say
"There must be something in the water that makes all the men in Kiev
blind, first they ignore you, and have you seen them drive?"

THEN ask her about what she does for fun,

or

Here is one of my all time special never before revealed secret questions
to ask a girl. 

"What is the prettiest view/place in Kiev? " (except for the one at this table) 
"Will you show you me this place?"
What is her favorite place on the river, the mountains, etc.?
Of course you would love to see these places too. Lead her down the path
to meeting again and always moving forward in the relationship. She is
proud of the beautiful places in her country and city and obviously she
likes these places, because she just told you that they are her favorite.

The hottest girls have to date somebody there is no reason that this
somebody shouldn't be you. 

That's all for today Grasshopper.

   
UspEhov!
(have success)

Popka!

I'm going to use those next time! Do I have to pay you royalties?