Everything you always wanted to know about our differences...

[Volshe]

... but were afraid to ask 

I was replying in another thread here when it dawned on me that in none of the languages that come from Serbo-Croatian(more precisely: were built into the SH at the time and afterwards continued their own ways)
there aren't equivalents for words "celebrity" and "fan".
We don't have movie industry like in the States (obviously), our actors are mostly engaged in the theater and have different social standing. Actresses are not necessarily physically beautiful.
We do use our equivalent of "star" (zvezda) - in any field, but either it's colloquial, when used in context of our realities, or you'll see it in a translation from English, ie. "a star of silent film."

When at the time i said to an American friend that back home i don't watch tv, she said, aw, you must be bored...

Last 10 or 15y, our tv too is among else for entertainment. Its basic use though had been - indoctrination. As you know, we used to have 2-3 channels only, and we knew in advance whom we would watch and why.

An artist, a performer - that's how we traditionally label singers. Until mid 80ies, they didn't dance on stage (many still don't) and they were dressed very conservatively.

Dancing generally, except for national, traditional dancing, is not valued as much as it as in the West.

"Twerking" for example - non existent.

This is a westernized view on the "twerking scandal" in Russia: https://www.vice.com/ru/article/wn5b7y/how-twerking-became-an-unlikely-scandal-in-russia-829

In English, politicized point of view : http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/04/26/2-young-women-1-teenage-girls-jailed-in-russia-south-for-twerking-next-to-wwii.html
Three young women in Russia were sentenced to jail Saturday for making a video showing them twerking next to a memorial.

In yet another thread, it was discussed which hand to offer for shaking in various cultures, and so on.

What are your thoughts? What was a tradition or a habit that impressed you in other cultures, for better or for worse? Please share 

[el_guero]

Volshe,

I have watched the quick change in Ukraine. And if my gut is correct, it is happening in Russia, you just aren't seeing it.

Tattoos, profanity, lewdness, etc.

I think in 10 to 20 years, the cultural wars will be lost in the Slavic countries.

[AvHdB]

Volshe,

I have watched the quick change in Ukraine. And if my gut is correct, it is happening in Russia, you just aren't seeing it.

Tattoos, profanity, lewdness, etc.

I think in 10 to 20 years, the cultural wars will be lost in the Slavic countries.

On the fashion front 'farmer johns' are gaining popularity with women.    But clothing is for women in general more casual and conservative. Tattoos are certainly more common as for profanity it is generally not used as far as I understand.

But the population at large remains proud and stoic. 

[el_guero]

Volshe,

I have watched the quick change in Ukraine. And if my gut is correct, it is happening in Russia, you just aren't seeing it.

Tattoos, profanity, lewdness, etc.

I think in 10 to 20 years, the cultural wars will be lost in the Slavic countries.

On the fashion front 'farmer johns' are gaining popularity with women.    But clothing is for women in general more casual and conservative. Tattoos are certainly more common as for profanity it is generally not used as far as I understand.

But the population at large remains proud and stoic.

True, but I have seen a LOT of change. I may be incorrect on the years.

[Dogsoldier]

Volshe,

I have watched the quick change in Ukraine. And if my gut is correct, it is happening in Russia, you just aren't seeing it.

Tattoos, profanity, lewdness, etc.

I think in 10 to 20 years, the cultural wars will be lost in the Slavic countries.

Tattoos: you see some people with tattoos , nothing new there. Don't think it's indicative of a cultural shift.
Profanity: people swear everywhere, again nothing new. In my direct experience I haven't heard anyone swearing amongst people I meet.
Lewdness: that's a strange thing to say: what exactly do you mean? Are people having it off in front of you? Again, I can't say that I've noticed anything along those lines.
In a homogenous society like the FSU, cultural attitudes would be hard to shift, IMO. Some things are being forced on them ( in UKR) by EU demands and laws being passed, unfortunately, but it may take a generation or more to change attitudes.

[Volshe]

Volshe,

I have watched the quick change in Ukraine. And if my gut is correct, it is happening in Russia, you just aren't seeing it.

Tattoos, profanity, lewdness, etc.

I think in 10 to 20 years, the cultural wars will be lost in the Slavic countries.

el_guero,

i am sorry to hear that about Ukraine 

"Tattoos, profanity, lewdness (had to google it  )."

As per Russia, the one i know is quite conservative. There is strengthening of "духовные скрепы" http://www.wikireality.ru/wiki/ Духовные_скрепы as an official ideology. I believe there's despair too - far from Moscow or Pete, out of big cities, especially in villages. I don't think it has been much different there ever. (I might be wrong, it's the conclusions i made my for myself.)

[Volshe]

Volshe,

I have watched the quick change in Ukraine. And if my gut is correct, it is happening in Russia, you just aren't seeing it.

Tattoos, profanity, lewdness, etc.

I think in 10 to 20 years, the cultural wars will be lost in the Slavic countries.

On the fashion front 'farmer johns' are gaining popularity with women.

Yes  When i was at the 1st year of Phd course (2010), i saw the newbies arriving from province,  with done hair, make up, wearing dresses, high heels and so on. Fast forward 4y, not a single one of them kept that dressing style - jeans, flat shoes, all there 
(But, like in Monte - jeans and flat shoes are for the day, in the evening everyone i know gets dressed up. I like that though; that thing - women dressed like for the NY eve in the early morning - in Slavic capitals that trend stopped somewhere in late 80ies/ early 90ies.

common as for profanity it is generally not used as far as I understand.

People are generally reserved if someone uses блатной жаргон (criminal slang). That basically means they were на зоне (in prison), or hang around such people. Normally, you don't want to mix with such people.

I bet it was like that always, it's that Soviet Union was pretty closed and such information was not available. Besides, i think it's like that everywhere. It's that in our countries the classes are less divided, so hypothetically you can bump into someone into whom you wouldn't back home. Other than that, i think everyone sane tries to keep away from people they know are trouble.

But the population at large remains proud and stoic.

I stayed with the same impression in the Slavic countries. Even during 90ies, during wars in my former country - the core wasn't rotten.

[Volshe]

Tattoos: you see some people with tattoos , nothing new there. Don't think it's indicative of a cultural shift.

I don't think either that's an epidemic like it is in the US, but i haven't been in Ukraine since i was a kid, so i am relying on what you are saying. For work, here, i am meeting intellectuals from Ukraine or influential/wealthy people, it's not that you expect an Ambassador to be covered in tattoos and swearing... He/she can't, i mean, they'd lose their jobs. 

Profanity: people swear everywhere, again nothing new. In my direct experience I haven't heard anyone swearing amongst people I meet.

I do sometimes  Usually when i am on my own and i can't reach something or can't turn hot water (and i have soap in my eyes)  It works like an incantation, do try it, given the possibility and given that no one listens  )

[AvHdB]

There was I think a British/Russian film that explored the Russian prison culture regarding tattoo's and the gangs that use them.

In the United States prison tattoos are used to identify inmates for others. It is an amazing sub-culture I gather.

[Volshe]

There was I think a British/Russian film that explored the Russian prison culture regarding tattoo's and the gangs that use them.

In the United States prison tattoos are used to identify inmates for others. It is an amazing sub-culture I gather.

I think i saw that one at the time... It is impressive, but it's too creepy of a subject for me for me to dwell on it. 
 

In FSUW i haven't seen anyone with tattoos in my surroundings.  In Monte, son of my close friend has tatooes, there's a whole story to it and it costed a fortune (done by an artist). On him i kinda like it (better to say, can stand it), albeit we all tried to persuade him not to get it. It's like one of those tattoos from "LA Ink" (the reality show), you can't confuse it for a prison tat as the latter are very specific too. But generally, i don't like tattoos of any kind, not on me, not on anyone else.

[AvHdB]

There was I think a British/Russian film that explored the Russian prison culture regarding tattoo's and the gangs that use them.

In the United States prison tattoos are used to identify inmates for others. It is an amazing sub-culture I gather.

I think i saw that one at the time... It is impressive, but it's too creepy of a subject for me for me to dwell on it. 
 

In FSUW i haven't seen anyone with tattoos in my surroundings.  In Monte, son of my close friend has tatooes, there's a whole story to it and it costed a fortune (done by an artist). On him i kinda like it (better to say, can stand it), albeit we all tried to persuade him not to get it. It's like one of those tattoos from "LA Ink" (the reality show), you can't confuse it for a prison tat as the latter are very specific too. But generally, i don't like tattoos of any kind, not on me, not on anyone else.

Tattoo's have been around for a long time and represent different things in cultures.

I met a guy a while back who was often referred to by hospitals who could tattoo a 'nipple' on a woman who had breast surgery for cancer.

[Volshe]

Tattoo's have been around for a long time and represent different things in cultures.

True. They are forbidden in Judaism 

[Dogsoldier]

There was I think a British/Russian film that explored the Russian prison culture regarding tattoo's and the gangs that use them.

In the United States prison tattoos are used to identify inmates for others. It is an amazing sub-culture I gather.

I think i saw that one at the time... It is impressive, but it's too creepy of a subject for me for me to dwell on it. 
 

In FSUW i haven't seen anyone with tattoos in my surroundings.  In Monte, son of my close friend has tatooes, there's a whole story to it and it costed a fortune (done by an artist). On him i kinda like it (better to say, can stand it), albeit we all tried to persuade him not to get it. It's like one of those tattoos from "LA Ink" (the reality show), you can't confuse it for a prison tat as the latter are very specific too. But generally, i don't like tattoos of any kind, not on me, not on anyone else.

Tattoo's have been around for a long time and represent different things in cultures.

I met a guy a while back who was often referred to by hospitals who could tattoo a 'nipple' on a woman who had breast surgery for cancer.

I think used in this sense for a semi medical reason I can agree that serves a purpose. Mindless disfigurement is something else altogether. Especially on women. 

[Dogsoldier]

Tattoos: you see some people with tattoos , nothing new there. Don't think it's indicative of a cultural shift.

I don't think either that's an epidemic like it is in the US, but i haven't been in Ukraine since i was a kid, so i am relying on what you are saying. For work, here, i am meeting intellectuals from Ukraine or influential/wealthy people, it's not that you expect an Ambassador to be covered in tattoos and swearing... He/she can't, i mean, they'd lose their jobs. 

Profanity: people swear everywhere, again nothing new. In my direct experience I haven't heard anyone swearing amongst people I meet.

I do sometimes  Usually when i am on my own and i can't reach something or can't turn hot water (and i have soap in my eyes)  It works like an incantation, do try it, given the possibility and given that no one listens  )

You should hear me when I'm driving and have to share road space with idiotic 'drivers' who should never be allowed behind a wheel.

[msmoby]

Things I'm noticing in Russia:

1/   the UK flag figures on plenty of clothing and is considered 'cool' !

2/ Loads of lasses walking around in shift dresses / t-shirt with English slogans that I'm sure they cannot understand what is being said

[Volshe]

I think used in this sense for a semi medical reason I can agree that serves a purpose.

Me too. I don't know Halacha (religious law) to that extent, so i can only guess, but i think even an orthodox rabbi would permit it under such circumstances.
(We have two main reasons to hate those, 1. it's forbidden in the Bible, like only cattle and slaves were "marked", presumably all humanity is to strive to be free of bondage, so why would one mark themselves willingly? 2. you can guess... the numbers were tattooed  I don't want to go into that. 

You should hear me when I'm driving and have to share road space with idiotic 'drivers' who should never be allowed behind a wheel.

I can imagine  Our languages are especially rich in that department... They include sisters who are virgins, graves of ancestors who passed away, copulation and so on... All in a single curse

For what i remember from my studies, the origin of "swear words and phrases" is indeed ritual, they were used for that very purpose by our ancestors 

[AvHdB]

You should hear me when I'm driving and have to share road space with idiotic 'drivers' who should never be allowed behind a wheel.

I can imagine  Our languages are especially rich in that department... They include sisters who are virgins, graves of ancestors who passed away, copulation and so on... All in a single curse

For what i remember from my studies, the origin of "swear words and phrases" is indeed ritual, they were used for that very purpose by our ancestors 

A couple times, I had to drive with an excitable Italian, I am almost certain he 'swore' for the entire time about an hour never repeating a phrase or word.

The Italian language compared to English or Dutch is so rich with words that can only be used when one is sort of holding a steering wheel and giving a diatribe to other fellow motorists.

[Volshe]

I can imagine  Our languages are especially rich in that department... They include sisters who are virgins, graves of ancestors who passed away, copulation and so on... All in a single curse

For what i remember from my studies, the origin of "swear words and phrases" is indeed ritual, they were used for that very purpose by our ancestors 

A couple times, I had to drive with an excitable Italian, I am almost certain he 'swore' for the entire time about an hour never repeating a phrase or word.

The Italian language compared to English or Dutch is so rich with words that can only be used when one is sort of holding a steering wheel and giving a diatribe to other fellow motorists.

I believe you. Still, non dimenticando che io L'Italiano lo parlo abbastanza bene, i can assure you that as rich and as resourceful as it is, it's a "poor cousin" in the department of swearing/cursing  in comparison to SH languages 

On that token, one our known diplomat in career (my father  ), had almost lost his very career when an Italian excellency, while looking at the steep mountain road exclaimed: che belle curve!!! 

*curva, in Italian - curve, bend, turn... In our languages...  Just don't pronounce it, and even if you do, for the life of you, don't do it anywhere near any word which could sound like mom (for example, the southern Madam... Just trust me on that one 

[Volshe]

Things I'm noticing in Russia:

1/   the UK flag figures on plenty of clothing and is considered 'cool' !

2/ Loads of lasses walking around in shift dresses / t-shirt with English slogans that I'm sure they cannot understand what is being said

I made that conclusion long ago, ( an observation i made for myself): in their majority (watch out, a generalization coming  ), Brits and Russians understand each other very well - Monarchies , or one current M. and one former with strong historical memory and everything that stems from that - obsession with history, manners, etiquette and so on. Americans and Ukrainians understand each other better and easier (than Am. get Russians, or Brits get Ukrainians.) I am not sure why is it so, but one of the reasons could be the influence of Jewish communities that are large both in US and Ukraine (hence the cultural influence, ie. if you analyze for example the famous Odessa humor - it's something that New Yorkers would ROFL at (and the other way around). 

p.s. i wanted to add: despite Montenegrin declarative  love of Russia, majority has no idea of Russian culture, history (except couple of wars we fought together  ), language or anything else. Americans - albeit presumably foreign in mentality, are easier to understand (desire for power, profit and so on. Not that any nation is foreign to that, but Russian keywords "Dusha, Toska, Sud'ba"  have nothing to do with Balkan mentality and are foreign to this worldview.

[AvHdB]

The best T-shirt I saw on my last visit to Ukraine was on a young lady, that was quite attractive; 'I look better on the internet'

[Volshe]

p.s.

We have a phenomena that doesn't have an equivalent in any culture i've ever encountered: sevdah. The meaning of the word sevdah in Turkish language has something to do with amorous yearning and ecstasy of love, and has its origin in the Arabic   sawdāʾ, black [bile]. But in those cultures alcohol is forbidden. Balkan "sevdah" is usually connected with musical genre "sevdalinka" and (large quantities) of alcohol which is consumed in a kafana (pab? bar? restaurant? ) where all of the guests are male and only the singer and waitress are female  (but not local.) 

Here is an example of a (beautiful) sevdalinka:

If you are from these parts, your heart will start to beat faster when you hear it, no matter what...

[Volshe]

The best T-shirt I saw on my last visit to Ukraine was on a young lady, that was quite attractive; 'I look better on the internet'

 

[el_guero]

The best T-shirt I saw on my last visit to Ukraine was on a young lady, that was quite attractive; 'I look better on the internet'

Scarily, she probably does. I have a friend in Chornomorsk who in person is stunning. And then she makes up for a photo shoot ...

Like one Ukrainian man said, "We like our women this way, don't you?"

[tonton]

The best T-shirt I saw on my last visit to Ukraine was on a young lady, that was quite attractive; 'I look better on the internet'

 
[/center

The best t-shirt I saw was in Auckland airport stating "I support any rugby team that plays against Australia" I bought for a kiwi friend lol

[AvHdB]

The best T-shirt I saw on my last visit to Ukraine was on a young lady, that was quite attractive; 'I look better on the internet'

 
[/center

The best t-shirt I saw was in Auckland airport stating "I support any rugby team that plays against Australia" I bought for a kiwi friend lol

In New England one sees a T-Shirt that says 'I support the Boston Red Sox's and any team that beats the New York Yankees.'