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Author Topic: Eurovision..  (Read 3021 times)

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Offline msmoby

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Re: Eurovision..
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2017, 03:07:13 AM »
The people wanted to return to Russia since 1991, when the USSR fell apart. Many Crimeans didn't even know they were with Ukraine until that year.

Mark.

Oh Ple_EASE ..

1/ Whilst I fully accept that the majority of folk planted in Crimea wanted to be Russia - it was only after a bollox campaign  re Nazis in Kiev and the 'risk' of being attacked ...  Yeah right with 25K plus RU service personnel on the peninsula

2/ Please check your 'facts' - There were plenty of polls that showed the Crimeans enjoyed their status as a self-governing off-shoot

3/ 2011 - the then Russian Consulate General - representing Russian interests .... " Those discussing ceding from Ukraine are criminal subversives" ....   

We have covered this MANY times ... All facts ... perhaps uncomfortable for you - but facts, nevertheless
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Offline Contrarian

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Re: Eurovision..
« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2017, 12:58:38 PM »
I consider Crimea to be more or less quid pro quo for US actions in Kosovo.

It's over and done and while force was used it is clear a majority wanted to be part of Russia.

So the question remaining is what is going to happen with Donbas?  :coffeeread:

Offline d672

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Re: Eurovision..
« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2017, 06:11:40 PM »
Many Crimeans didn't even know they were with Ukraine until that year.

Mark.

 So are you saying that having Ukrainian license plates on their vehicles didn't give them a hint?  :laugh:


Offline msmoby

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Re: Eurovision..
« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2017, 01:04:53 AM »
I consider Crimea to be more or less quid pro quo for US actions in Kosovo.

No... that was 'Abkhazia' ... Do read up and check ...   

Crimea was a 'let's divert folks attention from the harsh economic situation'

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Re: Eurovision..
« Reply #29 on: May 19, 2017, 01:20:02 AM »
Many Crimeans didn't even know they were with Ukraine until that year.

Mark.

 So are you saying that having Ukrainian license plates on their vehicles didn't give them a hint?  :laugh:
Before 1991, were there ukrainian license plates?

I'd think everyone would have an USSR license plate.
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Re: Eurovision..
« Reply #30 on: May 19, 2017, 01:27:03 AM »
Oh Ple_EASE ..

1/ Whilst I fully accept that the majority of folk planted in Crimea wanted to be Russia - it was only after a bollox campaign  re Nazis in Kiev and the 'risk' of being attacked ...  Yeah right with 25K plus RU service personnel on the peninsula
Yeah lets talk about facts ..... The men in charge directly during and the first month (or 2) after the removal of yanukovich were neo-nazi's complete with video/photo evidence of them bringing the hitler-salute, ss-badges, big nazi-swastikas and other nazi symbols. How are they not nazi's ??? Take a look at ukraine today, Their fears were very justified. The corruption has gone up, not down, there is a full-scale civil war going on against the primarily pro-russian population and the economics have gone to hell. No I think this was definately the reason and in hindsight they were right on the money.


Quote
2/ Please check your 'facts' - There were plenty of polls that showed the Crimeans enjoyed their status as a self-governing off-shoot
Under yanukovich yes, had they not started that little maidan it all wouldn't have happend. Glad we agree on something. Most Crimeans now are happy with events and how the future turned out since then.

Quote
3/ 2011 - the then Russian Consulate General - representing Russian interests .... " Those discussing ceding from Ukraine are criminal subversives" ....   
And he has progressed his insights. Now I think they will claim something completely different.

Quote
We have covered this MANY times ... All facts ... perhaps uncomfortable for you - but facts, nevertheless

You again do not bring facts to the table. Only innuendo that does not match the facts, especially on point one. You can argue it was the 'so-called' reason, but considering how everything turned out, it could very well be the real reason even if it started as a 'so-called' reason.


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Offline msmoby

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Re: Eurovision..
« Reply #31 on: May 19, 2017, 01:37:22 AM »

Before 1991, were there ukrainian license plates?

I'd think everyone would have an USSR license plate.

And they would have indicated a region part of Ukraine SSR ..... 
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Offline rosco

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Re: Eurovision..
« Reply #32 on: May 19, 2017, 03:11:10 AM »

You are also failing to account for Russia's obligations under the Memorandum on Security Assurances in connection with Ukraine's accession to the Treaty on the NPT. 
Since I don't know anything about that, I will concede this point to you.

Mark.

Moby - here's a big hint for you. This is how adults debate with each other.  tiphat

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Re: Eurovision..
« Reply #33 on: May 19, 2017, 05:03:11 AM »
Anyway......
Back to Eurovision.

Steve you would not have complained about the sympathy vote if a wheelchair lass from Russia would have won, would you.  :fighting0025:
It was clear from the outset that the Russian committee deliberately picked a fight over this knowing Ukraines law about performers that "illegally" peform in Crimea. Russia expected that the EBC would make Ukraine backdown, but they didn't. Russia could have provided another performer but refused. End of story for this year, take your bat and ball and go home to sulk. Better luck next year unless Vlad takes part of Portugal as well.

I flew in for the competition, but missed the semis after a plane cancellation, that led to multiple missed connections.
The friday night full rehearsal was not what I expected, as I kind of expected to be disappointed after all the resignations and finance issues. I wasn't, in fact I thought it was impressive, being actually in the arena. So much so that we went back for the Saturday afternoon runthrough as well.

The Final on Saturday night had great atmosphere. The security to get in had been extremely tight, understandably. The President must have thought it was going to get bombed since he didn't arrive (and later claimed it was in sympathy to those 4 extra lives lost that day).

What I did find having to watch the show for now the 3rd time, that some songs I wasn't in to the first round, had grown on me. The spectacle of lighting, videos, special effects....and yes even running machines was fun and enjoyable. There were no thugs harrasing the gays down on the main floor, who, as always, enjoy themselves in an over the top manner  :party0011:

The mood in the room, in terms of cheering etc, gave no prewarning of the subsequent voting of the Juries. That Portugal was in front at this point was a surprise. During the public voting period was where the local past winners strutted their stuff and that UKRAINIAN idiot wearing an Aussie flag dropped his pants on the stage.  :censored:
After that the young lad from Oz was never going to get any public votes, and the Australian invitation for next year sliped into the bin....who knows now we know who he is.

Anyway, Portugal got the sympathy vote we can agree on that and Steve can dream about what would have happened in a test of who could get the MOST sympathy  :biggrin:
I kinda enjoyed the "yodarapping", the Roma lad, the Brit girl had a great voice and song. The Swedes had every rocking along. Our lad was just ok nothing as good as Dami last year.

And to address the "why is Australia in it" questions. The original invitation a few years back was because Australian TV have broadcast it for so many years, and live. It has a huge following in Australia because we are all migrants from other countries (mainly in Europe) except for the aboriginies. After the "guest" role we were asked to join in the voting part. It seems the only people who complain about Eurovision becoming Worldvision are people who support countries that get less votes  :biggrin:

I predict China (where it is also huge to watch) will get an invite one day  :hidechair:

We raced off to the EuroClub after party held next to Chic night club. This ran all night and we went home at dawn for breakfast. My Ukrainian girl friends that were with me were shocked at the afterparty by all the open "gayness", never having experienced that in public before. Probably about 75% of the males seemed to be from that population grouping and the girls constantly were grimmacing, and expressing their displeasure at not being the usual objects of male attention  :ROFL: Can't say I minded being one of the few straight men there.

About 0300 my phone buzzes with a Messager note saying "are you by any chance standing in the EuroClub right now?"
Turns out to be a young lady I had never met in person although we had chatted about 6 years ago and become each others facebook friend at that time. I could not believe she could recognise me after so long, and with much greyer hair in a crowded nightclub, but up she came to say hullo. A real great surprise, and just a reminder of how small the world can be.


Offline d672

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Re: Eurovision..
« Reply #34 on: May 19, 2017, 04:53:48 PM »

Before 1991, were there ukrainian license plates?

I'd think everyone would have an USSR license plate.

And they would have indicated a region part of Ukraine SSR .....

 That's what I would think, they wouldn't have the same license plates throughout the whole Soviet Union would they? Romania, Bulgaria, Ukraine, Russia, etc.... surely they would have regional indicators.

Offline msmoby

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Re: Eurovision..
« Reply #35 on: May 19, 2017, 08:41:10 PM »


 That's what I would think, they wouldn't have the same license plates throughout the whole Soviet Union would they? Romania, Bulgaria, Ukraine, Russia, etc.... surely they would have regional indicators.

There is a Wiki page on it. I am rather anal about car number ( licence) plates and like to understand where a car is registered.

BTW, Romania and Bulgaria were not part of the USSR.and used different  number plate formats.

In Crimea - residents had to change their car number plates to Russia ones - despite a Federal law stating that Ukraine docs would be valid indefinitely and the Ukrainians didn't recognise these car plates as legal and refused to let them on 'rump' Ukrainian roads ! ( info as of 2016)

http://crimeahrg.org/en/crimean-citizens-are-forced-for-the-replacement-of-ukrainian-car-number-plates-under-the-threat-of-fines/




 


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Re: Eurovision..
« Reply #36 on: May 20, 2017, 01:31:00 AM »
There is a Wiki page on it. I am rather anal about car number ( licence) plates and like to understand where a car is registered.
Rather than trust the untrustworthy wiki, here's an actual USSR license plate:

For sale on Ebay for $30 or so, but it proves the point . No regional markers , nothing.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1990s-USSR-VINTAGE-UKRAINE-OLD-CAR-LICENSE-PLATE-NUMBER-SING-/162365364623


Quote
In Crimea - residents had to change their car number plates to Russia ones - despite a Federal law stating that Ukraine docs would be valid indefinitely and the Ukrainians didn't recognise these car plates as legal and refused to let them on 'rump' Ukrainian roads ! ( info as of 2016)
Again, these are the really known Ukrainian plates post 1991 and in no way invalidate my argument.

And of course some crimeans might have known, but a lot of them didnt. And from, 1954 to 1991 , even owning a car was very expensive. Most people were struggling to buy food, a car would be the last thing on their mind.
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Offline msmoby

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Re: Eurovision..
« Reply #37 on: May 20, 2017, 02:42:08 AM »
Markje,

I DID say I was anal about car number plates and you are plain wrong .  Wiki and the other sites are bang on.

May be you'd have to have been a little nerdish, but the 'clue' as to an SSR region lay in the last two letters of the number plate from '58 ...   

It was in Cyryllic, e.g EA = Estonia, AZ= Azerbaijan...

http://www.worldlicenseplates.com/world/EU_USSR.html


So much for folks not even realising that Crimea wasn't part of Russia in '91...   




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Offline Jerash

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Re: Eurovision..
« Reply #38 on: May 20, 2017, 09:17:21 AM »
Markje,

I DID say I was anal about car number plates and you are plain wrong .  Wiki and the other sites are bang on.

May be you'd have to have been a little nerdish, but the 'clue' as to an SSR region lay in the last two letters of the number plate from '58 ...   

It was in Cyryllic, e.g EA = Estonia, AZ= Azerbaijan...

http://www.worldlicenseplates.com/world/EU_USSR.html


So much for folks not even realising that Crimea wasn't part of Russia in '91...   

Pretty sure there's lots of people in Krimea that have never owned a car.


.

Offline Jerash

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Re: Eurovision..
« Reply #39 on: May 20, 2017, 09:20:27 AM »
Anyway......
Back to Eurovision.

Steve you would not have complained about the sympathy vote if a wheelchair lass from Russia would have won, would you.  :fighting0025:
It was clear from the outset that the Russian committee deliberately picked a fight over this knowing Ukraines law about performers that "illegally" peform in Crimea. Russia expected that the EBC would make Ukraine backdown, but they didn't. Russia could have provided another performer but refused. End of story for this year, take your bat and ball and go home to sulk. Better luck next year unless Vlad takes part of Portugal as well.

I flew in for the competition, but missed the semis after a plane cancellation, that led to multiple missed connections.
The friday night full rehearsal was not what I expected, as I kind of expected to be disappointed after all the resignations and finance issues. I wasn't, in fact I thought it was impressive, being actually in the arena. So much so that we went back for the Saturday afternoon runthrough as well.

The Final on Saturday night had great atmosphere. The security to get in had been extremely tight, understandably. The President must have thought it was going to get bombed since he didn't arrive (and later claimed it was in sympathy to those 4 extra lives lost that day).

What I did find having to watch the show for now the 3rd time, that some songs I wasn't in to the first round, had grown on me. The spectacle of lighting, videos, special effects....and yes even running machines was fun and enjoyable. There were no thugs harrasing the gays down on the main floor, who, as always, enjoy themselves in an over the top manner  :party0011:

The mood in the room, in terms of cheering etc, gave no prewarning of the subsequent voting of the Juries. That Portugal was in front at this point was a surprise. During the public voting period was where the local past winners strutted their stuff and that UKRAINIAN idiot wearing an Aussie flag dropped his pants on the stage.  :censored:
After that the young lad from Oz was never going to get any public votes, and the Australian invitation for next year sliped into the bin....who knows now we know who he is.

Anyway, Portugal got the sympathy vote we can agree on that and Steve can dream about what would have happened in a test of who could get the MOST sympathy  :biggrin:
I kinda enjoyed the "yodarapping", the Roma lad, the Brit girl had a great voice and song. The Swedes had every rocking along. Our lad was just ok nothing as good as Dami last year.

And to address the "why is Australia in it" questions. The original invitation a few years back was because Australian TV have broadcast it for so many years, and live. It has a huge following in Australia because we are all migrants from other countries (mainly in Europe) except for the aboriginies. After the "guest" role we were asked to join in the voting part. It seems the only people who complain about Eurovision becoming Worldvision are people who support countries that get less votes  :biggrin:

I predict China (where it is also huge to watch) will get an invite one day  :hidechair:

We raced off to the EuroClub after party held next to Chic night club. This ran all night and we went home at dawn for breakfast. My Ukrainian girl friends that were with me were shocked at the afterparty by all the open "gayness", never having experienced that in public before. Probably about 75% of the males seemed to be from that population grouping and the girls constantly were grimmacing, and expressing their displeasure at not being the usual objects of male attention  :ROFL: Can't say I minded being one of the few straight men there.

About 0300 my phone buzzes with a Messager note saying "are you by any chance standing in the EuroClub right now?"
Turns out to be a young lady I had never met in person although we had chatted about 6 years ago and become each others facebook friend at that time. I could not believe she could recognise me after so long, and with much greyer hair in a crowded nightclub, but up she came to say hullo. A real great surprise, and just a reminder of how small the world can be.

Cool ending to your story, but really, a straight guy?


.

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Re: Eurovision..
« Reply #40 on: May 20, 2017, 02:57:22 PM »
Markje,

I DID say I was anal about car number plates and you are plain wrong .  Wiki and the other sites are bang on.

May be you'd have to have been a little nerdish, but the 'clue' as to an SSR region lay in the last two letters of the number plate from '58 ...   

It was in Cyryllic, e.g EA = Estonia, AZ= Azerbaijan...

http://www.worldlicenseplates.com/world/EU_USSR.html


So much for folks not even realising that Crimea wasn't part of Russia in '91...   

Ah right.... Unfortunately for you, you are wrong. (again).

Any plates on Crimea didn't list Ukraine, I am 99% sure about that because I (obviously) know what was on the plates. I will leave it to you to find it yourself, please use the google.
Wikipedia has a long way to go, but this page will put you on the right direction:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of_the_Soviet_Union#Civilian_vehicles

Some googling knowing what is there, will land you all the way.

Plus even if you do somehow prove this (which after you read above page is impossible), it still wouldn't matter. Most Crimeans didnt know they were part of Ukraine until 1991. Perhaps some well-read people in the upper class knew, perhaps some who actually could spend money on cars and the majority didn't.

Mark.
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Offline msmoby

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Re: Eurovision..
« Reply #41 on: May 20, 2017, 10:34:07 PM »

Ah right.... Unfortunately for you, you are wrong. (again).

I recall only ONE time when I has been mistaken ...  How interesting

Any plates on Crimea didn't list Ukraine, I am 99% sure about that because I (obviously) know what was on the plates. I will leave it to you to find it yourself, please use the google.
Wikipedia has a long way to go, but this page will put you on the right direction:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of_the_Soviet_Union#Civilian_vehicles

Some googling knowing what is there, will land you all the way.

Plus even if you do somehow prove this (which after you read above page is impossible), it still wouldn't matter. Most Crimeans didnt know they were part of Ukraine until 1991. Perhaps some well-read people in the upper class knew, perhaps some who actually could spend money on cars and the majority didn't.

Mark.
:chuckle:

Markje,

1/ I'm really sorry, but Pravda announced it - and confirmed the Supreme Soviet  confirmation a few days later ... May be given Pravda's reputation for 'fact; it wasn't taken seriously. But are you telling me Soviet People didn't read Pravda or listen to the radio?

2/ I really DID give you plenty of hints as to the folly of arguing with a bloke who is anally retentive re car number plates.... 

The link you used doesn't even include Ukraine SSR plate formats

Can you name me ONE Крымская область code from the Soviet era - when part of Ukraine SSR?

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Re: Eurovision..
« Reply #42 on: May 28, 2017, 02:22:18 AM »

Ah right.... Unfortunately for you, you are wrong. (again).

I recall only ONE time when I has been mistaken ...  How interesting

Any plates on Crimea didn't list Ukraine, I am 99% sure about that because I (obviously) know what was on the plates. I will leave it to you to find it yourself, please use the google.
Wikipedia has a long way to go, but this page will put you on the right direction:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of_the_Soviet_Union#Civilian_vehicles

Some googling knowing what is there, will land you all the way.

Plus even if you do somehow prove this (which after you read above page is impossible), it still wouldn't matter. Most Crimeans didnt know they were part of Ukraine until 1991. Perhaps some well-read people in the upper class knew, perhaps some who actually could spend money on cars and the majority didn't.

Mark.
:chuckle:

Markje,

1/ I'm really sorry, but Pravda announced it - and confirmed the Supreme Soviet  confirmation a few days later ... May be given Pravda's reputation for 'fact; it wasn't taken seriously. But are you telling me Soviet People didn't read Pravda or listen to the radio?

2/ I really DID give you plenty of hints as to the folly of arguing with a bloke who is anally retentive re car number plates.... 

The link you used doesn't even include Ukraine SSR plate formats

Can you name me ONE Крымская область code from the Soviet era - when part of Ukraine SSR?
Sure I can, and that you are anal about license plates is fine, however you didn't put up any proof of your claims and I already said that it in no way invalidates the claim which you're trying to prove.

I also said that the wiki link didn't put all of it in one easy to digest format, you had to google yourself.

Please stop the bollox now and admit your defeat.
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Offline msmoby

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Re: Eurovision..
« Reply #43 on: May 28, 2017, 03:33:33 AM »

Sure I can, and that you are anal about license plates is fine, however you didn't put up any proof of your claims and I already said that it in no way invalidates the claim which you're trying to prove.

and yet you didn't post one to demonstrate ....   We BOTH know it will prove something .... as demonstrate your 'assertion' re "not realising they were in Ukraine SSR" was nonsense


I also said that the wiki link didn't put all of it in one easy to digest format, you had to google yourself.

Please stop the bollox now and admit your defeat.
[/quote

It was a VERY simple to digest format in the period I suggested that you check...  Why write lots of words when a simple - you got me - again - would do ?
I have never claimed to be a Blue Beret

Spurious claims about 'seeing action' with the Blue Berets are debunked >here<

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