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Author Topic: FSUW attitudes about money and posessions.  (Read 873 times)

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Offline justadude

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FSUW attitudes about money and posessions.
« on: February 20, 2017, 09:41:32 PM »
They say disagreements/conflict over money matters is the number one reason for divorce in the US. From what I have gathered so far, there is a difference between the way FSUW view of money and finances than American women or men (or at least than me). Of course I am speaking in generalities. I have heard a couple of different explanations and ideas on the topic.

 One of them is that FSU people don't have much money so they spend what they have quickly without saving. This doesn't exactly make sense to me.

Another idea is that one's status is very important and one's status can be determined by the square footage/zip code of one's house, the make and year of one's car, the size of the diamond on a wife's finger, and the maker of the clothes and accessories one wears. Indeed, when I was in Kiev I was shocked by the number of Mercedes G wagens I saw in a country where I've been told an income of $1000/month is way above average. I don't think a G wagen is any less expensive in Kiev than Northern California, perhaps even more.

As the son of a mid western sugar beet farmer, I learned to save like a squirrel, and it has put me in a pretty good position at this point in my life, considering my vocation. However, I find myself at loggerheads with my FSU fiance in regard to money issues. I am concerned that we might be incompatible on this issue.

I have heard similar comments from other men who have married FSUW, about different attitudes toward money,  but they seem to be able to navigate this issue.

I have heard that FSUW have a hard time respecting their husbands unless they have the things that they think they should have. Furthermore, I have heard that there is a difference between women who grew up during the Soviet Union and those who grew up primarily after it's dissolution.

Is this a common issue? Are there ways to mitigate it's impact? What other thoughts do you have on the matter?


Online Jerash

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Re: FSUW attitudes about money and posessions.
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2017, 11:07:29 PM »
Try having a good chat about it to see if there is any room/opportunity for compromise on both sides. Others here will be able to advise better on the particular issues that may be at play here.


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Re: FSUW attitudes about money and posessions.
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2017, 12:40:57 AM »
In my experience, FSUW are definately more materialistic than Dutch women and care especially much more about their image of people closeby.

Ergo : You need better clothes, more expensive model car and certainly seem to enjoy life (Restaurants, etc.) more than your neighbour.

But: It is also the mans job to take care of your savings-account and have something for rainy days. If you dont do that, they will definately loose respect for you and you get into a fight.


About your specific points:
One of them is that FSU people don't have much money so they spend what they have quickly without saving. This doesn't exactly make sense to me.
Just the women that don't save. Like I said above: Its definately expected of the man to take care of having savings/pension.

The answers below are just my experience with a few FSUW and may not represent the majority.
Quote
Another idea is that one's status is very important and one's status can be determined by the square footage/zip code of one's house,
Not important
Quote
the make and year of one's car,
Very important
Quote
the size of the diamond on a wife's finger,
Not really important, they like that stuff but no more than other non-fsuw women.

Quote
and the maker of the clothes and accessories one wears.
Important.
Quote
As the son of a mid western sugar beet farmer, I learned to save like a squirrel, and it has put me in a pretty good position at this point in my life, considering my vocation. However, I find myself at loggerheads with my FSU fiance in regard to money issues. I am concerned that we might be incompatible on this issue.
No, you just don't tell her exactly how much you make and how much is reserved for pensions. The money you bring into the 'family' is all for spending and none for saving. But if you screw up (no savings and rainy days ahead) then you're toast.

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Offline Steveboy

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Re: FSUW attitudes about money and posessions.
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2017, 02:34:37 AM »
In my experience, FSUW are definately more materialistic than Dutch women and care especially much more about their image of people closeby.

Ergo : You need better clothes, more expensive model car and certainly seem to enjoy life (Restaurants, etc.) more than your neighbour.

But: It is also the mans job to take care of your savings-account and have something for rainy days. If you dont do that, they will definately loose respect for you and you get into a fight.


About your specific points:
One of them is that FSU people don't have much money so they spend what they have quickly without saving. This doesn't exactly make sense to me.
Just the women that don't save. Like I said above: Its definately expected of the man to take care of having savings/pension.

The answers below are just my experience with a few FSUW and may not represent the majority.
Quote
Another idea is that one's status is very important and one's status can be determined by the square footage/zip code of one's house,
Not important
Quote
the make and year of one's car,
Very important
Quote
the size of the diamond on a wife's finger,
Not really important, they like that stuff but no more than other non-fsuw women.

Quote
and the maker of the clothes and accessories one wears.
Important.
Quote
As the son of a mid western sugar beet farmer, I learned to save like a squirrel, and it has put me in a pretty good position at this point in my life, considering my vocation. However, I find myself at loggerheads with my FSU fiance in regard to money issues. I am concerned that we might be incompatible on this issue.
No, you just don't tell her exactly how much you make and how much is reserved for pensions. The money you bring into the 'family' is all for spending and none for saving. But if you screw up (no savings and rainy days ahead) then you're toast.


FSUW are definately more materialistic than Dutch women and care especially much more about their image of people closeby

Noooo thats not correct!! FSUW are NOT materialistic and are happy to stay at home all day cooking and cleaning , thats why so many from the US go after them.. :laugh:

The biggest answer to most guys from the US to this question:

Q. Why do you search for a FSU women

A. Because American women are very materialist ( 85% will give this as the answer)

But then your watching hollywood movies and see these poor women happy to have a bowl of soup an herring for dinner, what can you expect.


Online Rockstar77

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Re: FSUW attitudes about money and posessions.
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2017, 06:19:51 AM »
Everybody is materialistic. I love buying stuff and so does every other man. You could walk into any mans house and see a big flat screen tv or a pretty decent vehicle parked outside his house. I know some of my pipefitting co-workers that are proud of their New tools for work. Ohhh you gotta by this pipe wrench, etc. But a woman wants cosmetics, smell nice or dress gorgeous and that's materialistic. Who doesn't want cool things. What's the point of working then? We work to provide and live better. Going on a date is a preview of if your cheap or can give. Yes generosity can be taken advantage of but if your to dumb to see what's up, then you deserve to get jazzed.

I never left all of my ex's in the past because of materialism. I left them because of drama. Before I met my fiancée, I was seeing a girl and it was my final North American girl. We were driving to the theatre to watch a movie and were laughing and joking around. Then out of the blue, she says...I'm mad at you. I was like...huh? What did I do. She said nothing. So we watched the movie in silence. Then when it ended and I drove her to her place. She got out of the car with a smirk and went into her place. I thought...how hard is it to tell me if I said anything to piss her off. I called her place a few times and she didn't answer, so I said screw this. Then one day she called me and said...I miss you. How about I come over and we can fool around. I said don't bother. She got mad and said what's your problem. I said I'm to old for this sh@t and I'm busy. She said so your not into me no more...I said...bingo. She got mad and said a lot of stuff that a three year old would say. Suffice to say she phoned and texted me tons after that for about two months. Sure she missed out on something great but at the same time drama has no place in my life.

I think men hide behind the materlistic saying of no gold diggers or whatever but the main problem isn't that. it's us not being men. I've learned more of how jerks, selfish men in our culture is considered a great catch and how men that treat women good are to boring and more as friends. I've never been to Russia but being a good man in Ukraine is considered golden. As long as you can make a girl, smile, laugh and treat her cool...her eyes will forever be yours. Being strong which is a favourite word in both Russia and Ukraine means doing your thing with not asking. You make the plans, you keep your word and be able to fix anything and solve stuff fast. Do that stuff and you'll never worry.

Offline Jesca

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Re: FSUW attitudes about money and posessions.
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2017, 04:52:02 PM »
A word from an FSUW here. (One who grew up before the Soviet Union collapse.)

One of them is that FSU people don't have much money so they spend what they have quickly without saving. This doesn't exactly make sense to me.

You are not alone – that wouldn’t make sense to any realistic individual  ) However, I can offer two possible explanations for that.

1) During the Soviet era, there was only one bank for the entire country - the Savings Bank. And people did use it to keep their savings. As that was long before plastic cards, the only way was "the book" (which literally was a little grey book containing your savings account statements. It was filled in by hand by staff when you would put the next portion in on pay day.)
When the SU was dissolved, it was a great shock for folk with savings - because the one and only bank collapsed along with the country, and people's money was lost. Not just devalued - lost for good. (And never recovered.)
As a consequence, many developed a feeling that monetary savings were at high risk of being lost. Contrarily, things bought for the money felt more…tangible and less likely to be lost.
Imagine this running in the family -and you might have an explanation.

2) The "spend now" urge in post-Soviet culture can also be linked to a superstition about "accidental" money (not earned - e.g. lottery wins, gifts, etc). That had to be spent asap, otherwise...cannot remember what exactly was to happen, but it certainly wasn't a good thing.
Does not apply to hard-earned wage tho - that would be something else.

Another idea is that one's status is very important and one's status can be determined by the square footage/zip code of one's house, the make and year of one's car, the size of the diamond on a wife's finger, and the maker of the clothes and accessories one wears.
<...>I have heard that FSUW have a hard time respecting their husbands unless they have the things that they think they should have.

Unfortunately, such a thing does exist. I believe, it is rooted in woman's upbringing - how much emphasis was placed in the family on material possessions as signs of "status".
I was brought up in a totally different way - with next to no emphasis. No car - so what, there is always public transit + less hassle finding parking. No diamond jewellery? less hassle in terms of where to keep it safe... And so on. That's what my family was like. And I must state - growing up free from possessions-based envy was a bliss.
However, I did see the trend a LOT, and I still do. And I second -  it may well cause problems between an FSUW and her Westerner partner.

Cultural conflicts are tricky simply because there is no right and wrong in them – it is rather two different right-s ) Negotiation is the only way. Not sure how tho - cases vary.
Maybe a FSUW needs to be made aware that for a Westerner, feeling respected (or not) depending on his financial/material assets is plain insulting, as if his human qualities had no value at all... Might be an eye-opener and a trigger of change. Or might not.

Furthermore, I have heard that there is a difference between women who grew up during the Soviet Union and those who grew up primarily after it's dissolution
Kinda true. The "possessions thing" seems to be less common among post-dissolution girls. However, it is not a rule.

Offline Boris

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Re: FSUW attitudes about money and posessions.
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2017, 05:41:09 PM »
Tanya, as well as the FSU women I dated before my marriage put a high value on YOUR education attainment. For them, in their world, where most everything was relatively equal materially education, culture and your awareness of it were separating factors.

Also, in my search I found it much easier to relate to women who were University graduates in the FSU. I had some difficulty with those with a technical or college diploma regardless of their beauty or earnestness:-)

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Re: FSUW attitudes about money and posessions.
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2017, 06:25:19 PM »
A word from an FSUW here. (One who grew up before the Soviet Union collapse.)

One of them is that FSU people don't have much money so they spend what they have quickly without saving. This doesn't exactly make sense to me.

You are not alone – that wouldn’t make sense to any realistic individual  ) However, I can offer two possible explanations for that.

1) During the Soviet era, there was only one bank for the entire country - the Savings Bank. And people did use it to keep their savings. As that was long before plastic cards, the only way was "the book" (which literally was a little grey book containing your savings account statements. It was filled in by hand by staff when you would put the next portion in on pay day.)
When the SU was dissolved, it was a great shock for folk with savings - because the one and only bank collapsed along with the country, and people's money was lost. Not just devalued - lost for good. (And never recovered.)
As a consequence, many developed a feeling that monetary savings were at high risk of being lost. Contrarily, things bought for the money felt more…tangible and less likely to be lost.
Imagine this running in the family -and you might have an explanation.

2) The "spend now" urge in post-Soviet culture can also be linked to a superstition about "accidental" money (not earned - e.g. lottery wins, gifts, etc). That had to be spent asap, otherwise...cannot remember what exactly was to happen, but it certainly wasn't a good thing.
Does not apply to hard-earned wage tho - that would be something else.

Another idea is that one's status is very important and one's status can be determined by the square footage/zip code of one's house, the make and year of one's car, the size of the diamond on a wife's finger, and the maker of the clothes and accessories one wears.
<...>I have heard that FSUW have a hard time respecting their husbands unless they have the things that they think they should have.

Unfortunately, such a thing does exist. I believe, it is rooted in woman's upbringing - how much emphasis was placed in the family on material possessions as signs of "status".
I was brought up in a totally different way - with next to no emphasis. No car - so what, there is always public transit + less hassle finding parking. No diamond jewellery? less hassle in terms of where to keep it safe... And so on. That's what my family was like. And I must state - growing up free from possessions-based envy was a bliss.
However, I did see the trend a LOT, and I still do. And I second -  it may well cause problems between an FSUW and her Westerner partner.

Cultural conflicts are tricky simply because there is no right and wrong in them – it is rather two different right-s ) Negotiation is the only way. Not sure how tho - cases vary.
Maybe a FSUW needs to be made aware that for a Westerner, feeling respected (or not) depending on his financial/material assets is plain insulting, as if his human qualities had no value at all... Might be an eye-opener and a trigger of change. Or might not.

Furthermore, I have heard that there is a difference between women who grew up during the Soviet Union and those who grew up primarily after it's dissolution
Kinda true. The "possessions thing" seems to be less common among post-dissolution girls. However, it is not a rule.


Thanks for the info Jesca.  What would be the average balance (in today's money) of the savings account of an average person such as a nurse or a teacher? 

I would say that at that time (circa 1991) the average person's most valuable asset and of enduring value was their flat. 

Online AvHdB

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Re: FSUW attitudes about money and posessions.
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2017, 09:13:37 PM »
A word from an FSUW here. (One who grew up before the Soviet Union collapse.)

One of them is that FSU people don't have much money so they spend what they have quickly without saving. This doesn't exactly make sense to me.

You are not alone – that wouldn’t make sense to any realistic individual  ) However, I can offer two possible explanations for that.

1) During the Soviet era, there was only one bank for the entire country - the Savings Bank. And people did use it to keep their savings. As that was long before plastic cards, the only way was "the book" (which literally was a little grey book containing your savings account statements. It was filled in by hand by staff when you would put the next portion in on pay day.)
When the SU was dissolved, it was a great shock for folk with savings - because the one and only bank collapsed along with the country, and people's money was lost. Not just devalued - lost for good. (And never recovered.)
As a consequence, many developed a feeling that monetary savings were at high risk of being lost. Contrarily, things bought for the money felt more…tangible and less likely to be lost.
Imagine this running in the family -and you might have an explanation.

2) The "spend now" urge in post-Soviet culture can also be linked to a superstition about "accidental" money (not earned - e.g. lottery wins, gifts, etc). That had to be spent asap, otherwise...cannot remember what exactly was to happen, but it certainly wasn't a good thing.
Does not apply to hard-earned wage tho - that would be something else.

Another idea is that one's status is very important and one's status can be determined by the square footage/zip code of one's house, the make and year of one's car, the size of the diamond on a wife's finger, and the maker of the clothes and accessories one wears.
<...>I have heard that FSUW have a hard time respecting their husbands unless they have the things that they think they should have.

Unfortunately, such a thing does exist. I believe, it is rooted in woman's upbringing - how much emphasis was placed in the family on material possessions as signs of "status".
I was brought up in a totally different way - with next to no emphasis. No car - so what, there is always public transit + less hassle finding parking. No diamond jewellery? less hassle in terms of where to keep it safe... And so on. That's what my family was like. And I must state - growing up free from possessions-based envy was a bliss.
However, I did see the trend a LOT, and I still do. And I second -  it may well cause problems between an FSUW and her Westerner partner.

Cultural conflicts are tricky simply because there is no right and wrong in them – it is rather two different right-s ) Negotiation is the only way. Not sure how tho - cases vary.
Maybe a FSUW needs to be made aware that for a Westerner, feeling respected (or not) depending on his financial/material assets is plain insulting, as if his human qualities had no value at all... Might be an eye-opener and a trigger of change. Or might not.

Furthermore, I have heard that there is a difference between women who grew up during the Soviet Union and those who grew up primarily after it's dissolution
Kinda true. The "possessions thing" seems to be less common among post-dissolution girls. However, it is not a rule.

Miss J, If during the Soviet period there were more people such as you communism may have been a success.

My observation for the record the 'possessions thing' is far greater among women from the post Soviet period.
“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

Offline Jesca

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Re: FSUW attitudes about money and posessions.
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2017, 01:11:59 AM »
Miss J, If during the Soviet period there were more people such as you communism may have been a success.

My observation for the record the 'possessions thing' is far greater among women from the post Soviet period.

Thank you AvHdB, I am flattered. Who knows... with levels of enthusiasm I and the like had back at the time, it may have been )) 

(Cannot resist adding - IMHO, communism in its "original" format (as preached by Herr Marx and all the founding fathers, Campanella and the relevant ancient Greeks) can only exist on paper. But I see what you mean.)

The discrepancy in our observations had me thinking! Maybe it is the country (cultural differences across Ukr vs Ru vs Bel vs Central Asian "Stans" vs the Causasus (Georgia, Armenia...))? Education levels? Province/countryside vs a big city? Gosh knows how many factors are there... 

Offline Jesca

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Re: FSUW attitudes about money and posessions.
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2017, 01:16:53 AM »
Thanks for the info Jesca.  What would be the average balance (in today's money) of the savings account of an average person such as a nurse or a teacher?

I would say that at that time (circa 1991) the average person's most valuable asset and of enduring value was their flat.

I personally cannot see ANY monetary savings held by an average nurse or a teacher working at a "budget" hospital or school...
The flat being the only asset - very true. However, one needs to remember that initially, the flat was not quite in their possession either. Only later, upon "privatization".

Offline Jesca

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Re: FSUW attitudes about money and posessions.
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2017, 01:21:09 AM »
Tanya, as well as the FSU women I dated before my marriage put a high value on YOUR education attainment. For them, in their world, where most everything was relatively equal materially education, culture and your awareness of it were separating factors.

Also, in my search I found it much easier to relate to women who were University graduates in the FSU. I had some difficulty with those with a technical or college diploma regardless of their beauty or earnestness:-)

I would agree with you Boris. Need to confess: I had the same education lvl factor while trying to relate to the Western guys I dated...

Online 2tallbill

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FSUW attitudes about money and posessions.
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2017, 11:12:17 AM »

I have heard similar comments from other men who have married FSUW, about different attitudes toward money,  but they seem to be able to navigate this issue.

I have heard that FSUW have a hard time respecting their husbands unless they have the things that they think they should have.

In my opinion, it depends on the girl.

My advice would be to have a hundred conversations about what she can
expect. I would write it all out on paper explaining everything that comes
in or out and be conservative on the income and liberal on the expenses.
Don't forget health insurance which will probably go up a lot (in the USA)
with a new family.

Include visa and relocating costs, trips home to see mama, rainy day, 
savings marriage/honeymoons.   

The more you prepare before getting married the better equipped she will be.
She will have enough surprises as it is that you didn't think about. I would
also explain about the neighbor with a bigger house or car and that you
would prefer to spend the money on creating a happy family without
struggling with big purchases on credit.

Get her to buy into your plan, under promise and over deliver.

That's my advice

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Re: FSUW attitudes about money and posessions.
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2017, 04:44:10 PM »
In my opinion, it depends on the girl.

It does.

My wife bucked all these stereotypes. She and I are on the same page.

Once she had convinced herself that I wasn't foolish with money, that I earned more than I spent, that I had a few shillings put aside for a rainy day, etc., she left everything financial to me from day one and she trusts me implicitly in that regard. That has worked just fine the last ten years or so.

Every now and again we have the discussion about our joint net worth. If something happened to me, what she would sell to discharge any liabilities, etc.

We are perhaps different to most in that I don't believe in credit for consumer goods, so we don't have car loans and credit card debt, etc. If we have the spare money we buy it - if we don't, we save till we do.

Yes, she likes diamonds, designer clothes and stuff any woman does. But she also works in our business, and understands how we make every penny. She knows how many hours of her work go into every restaurant meal we eat. Why we mostly eat better quality stuff at home............

Offline Jesca

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Re: FSUW attitudes about money and posessions.
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2017, 07:31:05 PM »
Hm! This thread just keeps me thinking!

In our case, it is me who does finance. Or rather, strategizes it. Everything ends up discussed, but hubby is more of a tactician/implementer, whereas I am more of a strategist/planner. This is the way we are wired, and the only choice was putting the discrepancies to work :) which we did. Functions fine so far...