My Days in Ukraine

[justadude]

Out in the Capital city of Kiev
I fell in love with a Ukrainian girl.
Night-time would find me and Niki together
Her movie star smile alighting the way.

More striking than stars were the eyes of this princess,
Captivating and mesmerizing were their spell.
For the short time I knew her this was unexpected;
I threw reason and caution to the winds.

Eleven days I spent with this maiden.
The longer those days as the calendar turned.
Hot passion and love in the East Europe winter.
I was surprised by the feelings I felt.

So in haste I decided to ask her to marry.
I bought a ring and dropped down on one knee.
The sparkle in her eyes, it grew only brighter.
Then came the word I was longing to hear.

I hopped a plane and returned to the West.
A sweet letter from her hidden in my bag.
Now I will wait 'til our love can continue.
‘Til her eyes fall on the golden land that I love.

This is probably too silly for most of you, but while I was with Niki (not her actual name) I kept thinking about the song “El Paso” by Marty Robbins. I took the liberty of borrowing and adapting his lyrics to fit my experience over the last 2 weeks. I realize that "El Paso" doesn't have the happiest of endings. How does a male-female relationship have a happy ending? Is it when one of you dies, and the other dies 3 months later of a broken heart?

I have no interest in justifying my actions on this site. I am honoring my commitment to share my experience. This is a continuation of the thread >>"Taking the Plunge..."<<. The way my trip played out, it seemed worthy of a new thread.

To recap, I met a few girls (not through the most commonly discussed channels) in Ukraine and hastily planned a trip to Kiev. I met the first one and decided not to meet any of the others. She is a gorgeous brunette with a world class smile, fluent in English with an enticing accent, a super sweet personality and a beautiful figure. No offspring, but is the Mommy of a cute little dog.

As the days wore on, the number of hours we spent together increased. I met her mother. I consulted a couple of experienced guys about Ukrainian engagement ring customs. I bought her a ring, and proposed. Apparently I made her the happiest girl alive.

We woke up this morning together. She accompanied me to the Kiev airport today. We turned our discussion to her joining me in my home state, hoping for favor and haste from the visa gods. We said our goodbyes. I am writing this from my layover hotel room in Munich.

As I said from the outset, I tried to keep my expectations low for this trip. Needless to say, those expectations were exceeded. The story is not yet finished, but no matter how it ends, I wouldn’t miss it for the world.

[Contrarian]

Congratulations, just a dude!  You won't be the first and you won't be the last, however it takes a lot of courage to do what you did. Bravo! Even though others will say you're crazy, ultimately only you can be responsible for this story.

I hope over time it works out well for you and the young lady. Only time will tell, and as you wrote:

As I said from the outset, I tried to keep my expectations low for this trip. Needless to say, those expectations were exceeded. The story is not yet finished, but no matter how it ends, I wouldn’t miss it for the world.

Good luck.

[Maxx]

This is probably too silly for most of you, but while I was with Niki (not her actual name) I kept thinking about the song “El Paso” by Marty Robbins. I took the liberty of borrowing and adapting his lyrics to fit my experience over the last 2 weeks. I realize that "El Paso" doesn't have the happiest of endings. How does a male-female relationship have a happy ending? Is it when one of you dies, and the other dies 3 months later of a broken heart?

I get you. The song has a desperate quality to it. That is why it was chosen by producer Vince Gilligan for the final episode of 'Breaking Bad.' I hope it does not foreshadow your future relationship.

[Omega1982]

Did you buy the ring in Ukraine or in the US? 

[Texan77]

It is very stressful for the both of you when you first come to the USA. It is very helpful if you know you girl very well before you start this. I am sure she is a great woman and I so hope the both of you all the happiness in the world.

I hope you will take several more trips before you bring her home.

Also I am sure you will do this anyway. But the fewer surprises the better when you bring her here. Take pictures of all the rooms in your home. So she know where she is going when she live. Take pictures of you friends and tell her about them. Take pictures of your family and talk to them about her. Let her Skype with your family. It is very rewarding to find the love of your life but it also creates a huge challenge.

I am glade your relationship grew slowly over the eleven days. This is very encouraging and give me great hope you will be one of our success stories. (even thought we did not have much to do with it)

Often the early days are the hardest but they can be the most romantic. In a strange way the happiest.

I wish you guys the very best.

[el_guero]

Well ... as many shootouts as there are lately, I am waiting to hear how your shootout ends up ....

Congrats.

Wayne

[msmoby]

I have no interest in justifying my actions on this site.

Indeed, wise words ... I make this mistake - a lot !

Good Luck to you, both

[Gipsy]

Out in the Capital city of Kiev
I fell in love with a Ukrainian girl.
Night-time would find me and Niki together
Her movie star smile alighting the way.

More striking than stars were the eyes of this princess,
Captivating and mesmerizing were their spell.
For the short time I knew her this was unexpected;
I threw reason and caution to the winds.

Eleven days I spent with this maiden.
The longer those days as the calendar turned.
Hot passion and love in the East Europe winter.
I was surprised by the feelings I felt.

So in haste I decided to ask her to marry.
I bought a ring and dropped down on one knee.
The sparkle in her eyes, it grew only brighter.
Then came the word I was longing to hear.

I hopped a plane and returned to the West.
A sweet letter from her hidden in my bag.
Now I will wait 'til our love can continue.
‘Til her eyes fall on the golden land that I love.

This is probably too silly for most of you, but while I was with Niki (not her actual name) I kept thinking about the song “El Paso” by Marty Robbins. I took the liberty of borrowing and adapting his lyrics to fit my experience over the last 2 weeks. I realize that "El Paso" doesn't have the happiest of endings. How does a male-female relationship have a happy ending? Is it when one of you dies, and the other dies 3 months later of a broken heart?

I have no interest in justifying my actions on this site. I am honoring my commitment to share my experience. This is a continuation of the thread "Taking the Plunge...". The way my trip played out, it seemed worthy of a new thread.

To recap, I met a few girls (not through the most commonly discussed channels) in Ukraine and hastily planned a trip to Kiev. I met the first one and decided not to meet any of the others. She is a gorgeous brunette with a world class smile, fluent in English with an enticing accent, a super sweet personality and a beautiful figure. No offspring, but is the Mommy of a cute little dog.

As the days wore on, the number of hours we spent together increased. I met her mother. I consulted a couple of experienced guys about Ukrainian engagement ring customs. I bought her a ring, and proposed. Apparently I made her the happiest girl alive.

We woke up this morning together. She accompanied me to the Kiev airport today. We turned our discussion to her joining me in my home state, hoping for favor and haste from the visa gods. We said our goodbyes. I am writing this from my layover hotel room in Munich.

As I said from the outset, I tried to keep my expectations low for this trip. Needless to say, those expectations were exceeded. The story is not yet finished, but no matter how it ends, I wouldn’t miss it for the world.

Good Luck, its a long and sometimes a little lonely, road, but the end prize is well worth the wait..IMHO..

[Danchik]

Justadude,

I think deep down you want someone to approve of what you have done. I won't be one of these people, nevertheless, good luck.

Yes, IMO, you should give it more time. You should understand the culture better, as well as the current climate in the FSU. If you were relocating to Ukraine, I would give this a much higher chance of long term success concerning the age difference.

We as individuals do what we think is right for us regardless of others telling us differently. Sometimes, we are right, sometimes we aren't. Life is for living (and learning), but there are always consequences.

My advice is to get as well acquainted with the culture as you can. The mindset is different from an American mindset to be sure. Also understand that as the man in the equation you are expected to do and be the classic definition of such, even if it defies your sensiblities from a Western feminist leaning perspective.

An example is being shut out on New Year's eve. In your position I would have demanded that the girl in question spend time with me, even if it was coming at 2am. Had she not done so after pressuring her (OK to do in her world of thinking, and something I have done in the past), I would have considered that a huge red flag as fas as her being a long term viable partner.

You don't seem like a fool, just lonely, and operating from that angle can, and often does, skew things in the brain. I don't wish you anything but luck, just take your time going forward. You have made some basic rookie mistakes with some simple things while travelling to Ukraine (not renting a flat, depending on "her" too much, being somewhat unprepared, and not being a man with a plan), that will not serve you well in the future with a FSUW.

Think everything through, not just your romatic notions.

Do not excuse slights as misunderstandings, these women take care of their men when they truly care for them, period.

[Rockstar77]

Congratulations justadude. I was rooting for you the whole time. Ukrainian women are from another universe. Sure maybe not spending New Year's Eve with you wasn't cool. but maybe you said something to her about it and laid down the law that it was downright rude and put her in her place and she changed her mind about you because attraction is a pretty complex thing. A good example is like being at a party and the most beautiful girl in the room is swimming in male attention but then runs into you and you act like she ain't nothing. Talk about bizarre when they end up telling and send their friend over your way to express of their interest in you. No matter the culture. women are women at the end of the day. Sometimes as crazy as it sounds...when you just move on in your head, it sparks attraction because you have the so what attitude and don't treat them like the queen they think they are causing her womanly juices to flow. The first time I met my now fiancée, she called me a stupid Canadian man. I was kinda a prick to her after that and deleted her from Skype. She got mad that no man ever deleted her highness and brought up that she didn't just give her Skype name to just anyone and we could have at least been friends because she always had fun with me on Skype. So I accepted her friendship back. We talked for a bit and a week or two,  I just came out and said that if there was any man to escape the friend zone it would me and I was now coming after her. She laughed and said ok. Did I have anything to lose being friends. No. It's much easier to be honest because I got the chance to show her how superior I was to talk to and getting to know her then anyone she would met.

There's one thing the majority of women in Ukraine or Russia seek that isn't plain as day here in North America when a woman writes her profile. In North America we read the typical looking for a tall dark and handsome man that has a good sense of humour that doesn't take himself seriously. In Ukraine or Russia there's two key words that stood out to me in their profiles. The whole "strong man" personality. These girls know they are off the charts hot but guess what. They are in a culture that they do need men. So act like one. It's so easy after that. I liked Ukraine because I could connect with them incredibly quickly. You got Russia invading looking to take over that country and when we'd talk and it seemed like it was a scary time. I would say yes..I know how you must feel. They would say..how would you know. You live in Canada. It's not like anyone ever comes after your country. I'd say I'm Native American. If anyone got the shaft in history it was us. But I'd make jokes about getting our butts handed to us and that at least you guys have decent weapons to survive. The white man could come into a village and sneeze and it would wipe us out. You have countries sending you money and your government steals it. We have chiefs that get money and they steal it. You guys like to drink..so do we. You have gopniks...we're the gopniks over here. It's all good. I took control of the stage because that's what these women want is a man. You can read body language and tell that the moment you hit that dial button on Skype and they see you, they light up and it ain't fake. Every situations is an opportunity and when things look dark there's always hope. Jesus imagine flying over 2 days before my first visit and I asked about deal breakers and hearing that if she doesn't like a mans touch then it's not going any further. Me being a pipefitter and looking at my hands thinking...well..this is going to be interesting. But did I get worried. Never. I watched your tube meetings on people meeting for the first time and thought what a bunch of girls going in for a handshake, a hello hug, maybe a peck on the cheek. Screw that. I told her about those videos and I said listen... we have know each other for 6 months and I ain't doing none of that. I said get ready for my entrance. When I get through those gates I'm coming in for a full blown Makeout. I was gauging to see if she was going to try and shoot me down but she laughed and said ok. Maybe she didn't believe me. But when I got through to those gates and was coming through I seen this little rocket peak her head around the corner and I thought..oh god..what was I thinking..she's more hot in person. But I said let's do this and I through down my bags and said come her. Grabbed and blew her mind. I could tell because when we got outside waiting for the cab on the bench she was sitting mega close to me. then we got to my apartment was I done. No way. I even got lucky by her wanting to change her dress to go out and show me her city. I was being a gentleman that I'm not said I'll go in the bathroom while you change but I was just excited to see her that I came back out and said listen...ohhh my god..I forgot...while she with her original dress down to her knees. I instantly retreated back to the bathroom thinking..oh my god.. if that's what she looks like half naked then I'm in for a treat and it's funny because months before that I would ask my perverted question of the day in my emails and I would never get a good response..I would get..it's a surprise. Lane. 15 minutes in our first encounter and I see that. Gold I tell ya. Then we just played it off like nothing happened. After walking around her city and we finally came back to my place. We turned on the tv and we're watching it. I noticed her sitting on the couch a little bit further and I said..hold it now. What are you doing over there. I wanna cuddle. Get over here. Cuddling must be different in Ukraine because I thought it would be just her close to me with my arm around her but she rolled over to my direction and was looking for some kissing action. I laughed and said..well this ain't what I was thinking but it'll do...hahaha. All I'm saying is justadude. Maybe it's just my personality that this stuff can work. But it's never failed me ever. So I must be on to something. In the last few days it seemed like you turned things around. I'm happy for you. I really am. Never count yourself out. Some men give up easy and fold their tail in between their legs. I could see someone with not much dating experience like some of our forever alone types that venture to Ukraine that get scammed because beauty is blinding. But if you've been around women decently. Pro-dater or not. You can see things for what they really are. Women aren't as complex as men think. We come from North America where being a jerk reigns surpreme because daddy brought up their daughters to be a princess. The majority of these girls are from the former Soviet Union with parents that bring their daughters up to be cool. Sure beauty can be a weapon but Knowing how to disarm it is what sets you apart from everyone else.

I hope you success justadude. Congratulations on your proposal. Keep your edge and you can never go wrong. I'm heading back to Ukraine in two days for my 7th visit for 49 days. When your optimistic you can make even the worst situation to your advantage. I'm using the Alberta recession to go and see my fiancée every 2 months when my visa free kicks in. Sure it sucked that Alberta isn't the power house Canadian economy right now. But so what...i get to go see my woman all the time now. 49'days in Dnipropetrovsk. Awesome.

[Manny]

You got Russia invading looking to take over that country

Erm, no you haven't or they would have done so long before now. 

>>Debate Here<<

[justadude]

Did you buy the ring in Ukraine or in the US?

I bought her a small diamond ring from a jeweler at the Globus Mall. I plan to buy her a bigger one when she arrives stateside.

I think that's all the help I can provide at this time, but if there are any more legitimate questions, feel free to ask. I'll be sure to post updates after any major milestones or if anything changes, for the good of the order.

[el_guero]

I have no interest in justifying my actions on this site.

Indeed, wise words ... I make this mistake - a lot !

Good Luck to you, both

At least you admit some of your mistakes ....

[AvHdB]

Congratulations!

Now the hard work starts. Any relationship is a challenge. With a woman from the former Soviet Union that is your equal the work becomes more 'interesting'

Please keep us in the loop and continue to ask questions.

Av

[justadude]

Thanks AvHdB.

As I said I would do with milestones, here is an update. I FedExed the K1 visa application Tuesday. Obviously she helped a lot with getting things together. I payed an attorney $150 to look it over. I found his advice helpful and made adjustments before sending. I think we went pretty heavy on the evidence, but we'll see.

 N and I text a lot, we audio call every day and video call every 3 days or so.

She has become good friends with my daughter. She has insisted on multiple occasions that I get a pre nup to protect my assets, and has told this to my daughter and mother as well, striving to insure them that she is not after my money. Or my Ferrari, which is up for sale anyway, haha.

I guess that's about it for now. As I said previously, feel free to ask any questions. But neither am I seeking anyone's approval on my choices. I asked a few questions in the visa subforum, and got some helpful advice. I am not saying I've got it all figured out, but I don't really have any questions at this time.

Cheers!

[Boris]

Good Luck...The odds are against you but it is your life. I wish you the best...Boris

[justadude]

Those of you who predicted defeat were correct. I was foolish to propose to a woman who I barely knew.

My view of her at this time is that she is a sweetheart. However, I reached the conclusion about a week ago that her and I are not compatible. She is hurting right now, and for this I am truly sorry. I am sorry that I hurt such a beautiful girl.

The bottom line is that we didn't know each other well enough to make such an important decision. I choose not to go into detail, especially about her side of things. Did she make some mistakes? Yes. But in my view it was mostly my fault.

I had already purchased tickets to visit some time back. I didn't buy purchase protection so I am going to Kiev in April. I have promised to visit her as friends.

As a matter of fact, if anyone else is going to Kiev in mid-ish April and would like to get together, send me a PM.

Thanks again for those who wished me well, and I'm sorry I disappointed those who were betting on my success, even though you knew it was unlikely.

[AvHdB]

Those of you who predicted defeat were correct. I was foolish to propose to a woman who I barely knew.

My view of her at this time is that she is a sweetheart. However, I reached the conclusion about a week ago that her and I are not compatible. She is hurting right now, and for this I am truly sorry. I am sorry that I hurt such a beautiful girl.

The bottom line is that we didn't know each other well enough to make such an important decision. I choose not to go into detail, especially about her side of things. Did she make some mistakes? Yes. But in my view it was mostly my fault.

I had already purchased tickets to visit some time back. I didn't buy purchase protection so I am going to Kiev in April. I have promised to visit her as friends.

As a matter of fact, if anyone else is going to Kiev in mid-ish April and would like to get together, send me a PM.

Thanks again for those who wished me well, and I'm sorry I disappointed those who were betting on my success, even though you knew it was unlikely.

It is very difficult to build a cross cultural relationship on the basis of one visit.

Having said this relationships often move in strange ways and while on one level the relationship is over, it might find a deeper basis in the spring. By the way I am in Kiev presently and will be here for another three weeks.

[Contrarian]

Those of you who predicted defeat were correct. I was foolish to propose to a woman who I barely knew.

My view of her at this time is that she is a sweetheart. However, I reached the conclusion about a week ago that her and I are not compatible. She is hurting right now, and for this I am truly sorry. I am sorry that I hurt such a beautiful girl.

The bottom line is that we didn't know each other well enough to make such an important decision. I choose not to go into detail, especially about her side of things. Did she make some mistakes? Yes. But in my view it was mostly my fault.

I had already purchased tickets to visit some time back. I didn't buy purchase protection so I am going to Kiev in April. I have promised to visit her as friends.

As a matter of fact, if anyone else is going to Kiev in mid-ish April and would like to get together, send me a PM.

Thanks again for those who wished me well, and I'm sorry I disappointed those who were betting on my success, even though you knew it was unlikely.

Sorry to hear it did not work out however it's better you found out now rather than latter. I would advise you not to see her anymore but you can do what you wish.

Best to start out new with new dates, friends, and possibly a new GF.  Good luck. 

[el_guero]

Those of you who predicted defeat were correct. I was foolish to propose to a woman who I barely knew.

My view of her at this time is that she is a sweetheart. However, I reached the conclusion about a week ago that her and I are not compatible. She is hurting right now, and for this I am truly sorry. I am sorry that I hurt such a beautiful girl.

The bottom line is that we didn't know each other well enough to make such an important decision. I choose not to go into detail, especially about her side of things. Did she make some mistakes? Yes. But in my view it was mostly my fault.

I had already purchased tickets to visit some time back. I didn't buy purchase protection so I am going to Kiev in April. I have promised to visit her as friends.

As a matter of fact, if anyone else is going to Kiev in mid-ish April and would like to get together, send me a PM.

Thanks again for those who wished me well, and I'm sorry I disappointed those who were betting on my success, even though you knew it was unlikely.

It is very difficult to build a cross cultural relationship on the basis of one visit.

Having said this relationships often move in strange ways and while on one level the relationship is over, it might find a deeper basis in the spring. By the way I am in Kiev presently and will be here for another three weeks.

Strange ways indeed.

[justadude]

I did visit her for a week in April. We spent every day together. It was a week of goodbye.

I am back in Kiev now, 6 weeks into a 7 week visit. I didn't think I would, but I saw her last night. I'm still sad that it didn't work out. She still wants to get back together. I wish I could, but I can't.