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Author Topic: Hows Crimea doing today  (Read 20008 times)

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Online Markje

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Hows Crimea doing today
« on: December 14, 2016, 02:54:45 AM »
Just a short message to update outdated info.

* Debit cards now work so/so in Crimea, some ATM's accept western cards, some don't.
* Phone providers still block SMS from NL to Crimea.
* Downloading in Crimea from Google play is verboten. Had to use a VPN with Dutch IP to get around it.
* Tourism year was better than 2015. Almost 70% of what used to be , before the seperation from Ukraine.
* Average Hotel/Sanatorii occupation this year was 33%, up 8% from last year.
* Weather and Nature both beautiful
* Lots of new things to see in Evpatoria. A Dino Park, clean sandy beaches both free and paid for (last year only paid for). The free beaches require taxi-service though, you can't get there by bus. (yes, yes, yes, yes)
* Air quality improved lots. People no longer burn their own trash. I noticed that immediately travelling from Sip->evp.

Mark.
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Re: Hows Crimea doing today
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2016, 03:26:53 AM »
Just a short message to update outdated info.

* Debit cards now work so/so in Crimea, some ATM's accept western cards, some don't.
* Phone providers still block SMS from NL to Crimea.
* Downloading in Crimea from Google play is verboten. Had to use a VPN with Dutch IP to get around it.
* Tourism year was better than 2015. Almost 70% of what used to be , before the seperation from Ukraine.
* Average Hotel/Sanatorii occupation this year was 33%, up 8% from last year.
* Weather and Nature both beautiful
* Lots of new things to see in Evpatoria. A Dino Park, clean sandy beaches both free and paid for (last year only paid for). The free beaches require taxi-service though, you can't get there by bus. (yes, yes, yes, yes)
* Air quality improved lots. People no longer burn their own trash. I noticed that immediately travelling from Sip->evp.

Mark.

Thanks for the update... but this reflects the improvement for the non indigenous residents

This is not 'russiophobia' - it's up for discussion at the UN


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-ukraine-crimea-putin-human-rights-abuses-un-accusations-claims-a7421406.html



UN accuses Russia of multiple human rights abuses in Crimea

Of course, Crimea is beautiful and has nice, sandy beaches...

I was hoping to see the Bobsleigh and Luge championships in Sochi, this Feb - just been cancelled - as too many teams won't attend - following the latest report of Prof McClean..

I guess our favourite places must wait a little while longer for international tourist to come in any numbers :(

Sochi gets a Casino up in the Mountains at New Year ...if it hadn't been for Crimea ...all that investment might have brought in international tourism :(



 


 
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Re: Hows Crimea doing today
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2016, 04:07:14 AM »
LOL @ this silliness in Moby's 'independent' article:

Quote
The UN has condemned Russia's "temporary occupation" of Crimea
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.


Online Markje

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Re: Hows Crimea doing today
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2016, 04:40:48 AM »
Today,

Dutch courts ruled that all the gold that Crimean Musea had on display in Netherlands must be returned to Ukraine, instead of their owners (Crimean musea).

Right.... The west is resorting to theft now.

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Re: Hows Crimea doing today
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2016, 04:43:05 AM »
Thanks for the update... but this reflects the improvement for the non indigenous residents
Better tourism-season and hotel-occupancy is very important for a tourist-driven oblast like Crimea.

But you might've missed those 2 items in the list.
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Re: Hows Crimea doing today
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2016, 04:54:18 AM »
LOL @ this silliness in Moby's 'independent' article:

Quote
The UN has condemned Russia's "temporary occupation" of Crimea

Did you check out the photos of the "russian troups" in Crimea slideshow.  :chuckle:

I'd watch an army of young devushka's as "army" anyday :) No fighting necessary.. although a good catfight can be enjoyable.

Also , pictures 3 and 4 have been used in Meme's ..... They're from 2014!!!!!

http://imgur.com/gallery/GOPfL5p

Searching to fit the narrative eh?
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Online andrewfi

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Re: Hows Crimea doing today
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2016, 06:04:49 AM »
I like the way that the subeditor has forgotten the English language.

In a couple of the pics the words 'heavily armed' are featured. If the subby was being honest he'd not have used those words together. It is hard to imagine how a soldier could be more lightly armed unless he had been issued with a catapult and pea shooter.

It is sad the way that this casual dishonesty does not even get noticed any longer, it is just part of the media landscape.
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Re: Hows Crimea doing today
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2016, 06:55:53 AM »
Today,

Dutch courts ruled that all the gold that Crimean Musea had on display in Netherlands must be returned to Ukraine, instead of their owners (Crimean musea).

Right.... The west is resorting to theft now.

I'm confused. Since it had been Ukraine before, but now is Russia, shouldn't the gold go to Ukraine?

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Re: Hows Crimea doing today
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2016, 07:38:13 AM »
The exhibits belonged to the Crimean Museum - in Crimea. The clue is in the name. Crimea is in Russia not Ukraine and the exhibits should have been returned to the museum. They do not belong to Ukraine (or Russia).
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Re: Hows Crimea doing today
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2016, 08:35:39 AM »
Today,

Dutch courts ruled that all the gold that Crimean Musea had on display in Netherlands must be returned to Ukraine, instead of their owners (Crimean musea).

Right.... The west is resorting to theft now.

I'm confused. Since it had been Ukraine before, but now is Russia, shouldn't the gold go to Ukraine?
As Andrew also said. The State doesn't own the gold, the Musea do.

The Musea also owned this gold when crimea was part of Russia before (in 1954) , so technicly speaking, Ukraine is now trying to appropriate what Russia didn't when Crimea changed hands from Russia->Ukraine back then.

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Re: Hows Crimea doing today
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2016, 09:25:55 AM »
Today,

Dutch courts ruled that all the gold that Crimean Musea had on display in Netherlands must be returned to Ukraine, instead of their owners (Crimean musea).

Right.... The west is resorting to theft now.

I'm confused. Since it had been Ukraine before, but now is Russia, shouldn't the gold go to Ukraine?
As Andrew also said. The State doesn't own the gold, the Musea do.

The Musea also owned this gold when crimea was part of Russia before (in 1954) , so technicly speaking, Ukraine is now trying to appropriate what Russia didn't when Crimea changed hands from Russia->Ukraine back then.

it's political, which means somebody will always be either happy or unhappy.  :biggrin:

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Re: Hows Crimea doing today
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2016, 09:44:27 AM »



The Musea also owned this gold when crimea was part of Russia before (in 1954) , so technicly speaking, Ukraine is now trying to appropriate what Russia didn't when Crimea changed hands from Russia->Ukraine back then.

Most UN member nations do not recognise the legitimacy of RU control in Crimea..That is what the sanctions started over - How that control was wrested ..hence the Dutch Court ruling

This is why your son's school maps will continue to show Crimea as part of Ukraine. As will Don's in Canada, and Manny's kid's in the UK ..

I have never claimed to be a Blue Beret

Spurious claims about 'seeing action' with the Blue Berets are debunked >here<

Here is my Russophobia/Kremlinphobia topic

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Re: Hows Crimea doing today
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2016, 01:35:54 AM »
and Manny's kid's in the UK ..

My kids both know Crimea is Russia despite what any school may tell them to the contrary.  tiphat
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Re: Hows Crimea doing today
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2016, 02:42:29 AM »



The Musea also owned this gold when crimea was part of Russia before (in 1954) , so technicly speaking, Ukraine is now trying to appropriate what Russia didn't when Crimea changed hands from Russia->Ukraine back then.

Most UN member nations do not recognise the legitimacy of RU control in Crimea..That is what the sanctions started over - How that control was wrested ..hence the Dutch Court ruling

This is why your son's school maps will continue to show Crimea as part of Ukraine. As will Don's in Canada, and Manny's kid's in the UK ..
My son is too young to know politics, yet he identifies Crimea as Russia , because it feels 'Russian'.

If thats a good thing I don't know, because everything sub-par he identifies as 'Russian' (banbao = Russian Lego for instance).

As for the other: Even if you dont recognise Crimea as Russian, you still should respect the property-rights. If I decided to move to Germany, NL will not suddenly own my house in NL.

The gold does not belong to Ukraine, nor Russia for that matter. It belongs with its owners, the Crimean Musea.
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Re: Hows Crimea doing today
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2016, 06:45:45 AM »
Today,

Dutch courts ruled that all the gold that Crimean Musea had on display in Netherlands must be returned to Ukraine, instead of their owners (Crimean musea).

Right.... The west is resorting to theft now.

This is bull shit.

The Dutch Court has said because of conflicting claims the matter needs to be sorted out. In no way is Allard Pierson trying to keep the collection. Some of these countries where the items were found have made claims or are also considering making claims. There are standards of the IFAR (International Foundation of Art Research) that most likely will be applied.

Part of the problem the collection was assembled from various regions of what was the Soviet Union and before Russia. It all dates from the Scythian reign in the steppes of present day Russia and Ukraine. There area of control was wide ranging. Some items were found as close as present day Moldavia and just 'next door' in Uzbekistan and modern day Iran. There is another issue; in an earlier exhibition (Paris) some of the items were considered to be late 19th century fabrications.

As way of reference Russia stole during the 2nd World War a large collection of Judacia that came from one region (with additions) and refuses to give the collection back despite repeated court cases that have found in favour of the institution. If one uses the logic of say Andrew, anything stamped Faberge, St. Petersburg should be returned to the Hermitage.

As a comment perhaps some of you (Andrew, Manny & Markje) should check facts and not use simpleton responses. Also it would not surprise me in 10 years we see claims made against some of these collections now in Russia and Ukraine by the heirs.
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Re: Hows Crimea doing today
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2016, 07:26:51 AM »
Today,

Dutch courts ruled that all the gold that Crimean Musea had on display in Netherlands must be returned to Ukraine, instead of their owners (Crimean musea).

Right.... The west is resorting to theft now.

This is bull shit.

The Dutch Court has said because of conflicting claims the matter needs to be sorted out. In no way is Allard Pierson trying to keep the collection. Some of these countries where the items were found have made claims or are also considering making claims. There are standards of the IFAR (International Foundation of Art Research) that most likely will be applied.

Part of the problem the collection was assembled from various regions of what was the Soviet Union and before Russia. It all dates from the Scythian reign in the steppes of present day Russia and Ukraine. There area of control was wide ranging. Some items were found as close as present day Moldavia and just 'next door' in Uzbekistan and modern day Iran. There is another issue; in an earlier exhibition (Paris) some of the items were considered to be late 19th century fabrications.

As way of reference Russia stole during the 2nd World War a large collection of Judacia that came from one region (with additions) and refuses to give the collection back despite repeated court cases that have found in favour of the institution. If one uses the logic of say Andrew, anything stamped Faberge, St. Petersburg should be returned to the Hermitage.

As a comment perhaps some of you (Andrew, Manny & Markje) should check facts and not use simpleton responses. Also it would not surprise me in 10 years we see claims made against some of these collections now in Russia and Ukraine by the heirs.

Isn't there an International law covering this sort of situation, whereby, the artefacts are returned ONLY to the lender museum??, and then its that museum who is responsible for any/all claims against said property...
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Re: Hows Crimea doing today
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2016, 07:34:51 AM »
Let's not fail to consider the Elgin Marbles, or the Kohinoor diamond, who are the rightful owners, the original finders, or the ones who stole it last?
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Re: Hows Crimea doing today
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2016, 07:40:07 AM »
AvHdB, please either stop the pissed posting or try to think a little.

Let's give it a shot though, see what you can do in the sober posting, thought out, line of business?

In whose custody were these artifacts previously, when they were lent to the Dutch?
Was it (A) the Ukrainian government or (B) the museum in Crimea?

How does giving this stuff to the Ukrainian government reduce or clarify any outstanding claims?

Do you honestly think, given your extensive Google knowledge and Wikipedia research that the museum in Crimea would have lent these items to the Netherlands if they believed that by doing so they gave rights to their disposition to the Dutch?

If you think that lending artefacts gives disposition rights to the borrower, as a general principal, why do you think any museum ever lends out artefacts in their care to any other museum or exhibitor?

Please give this some thought in order to stop looking like a complete idiot by rushing your response.
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Re: Hows Crimea doing today
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2016, 07:40:54 AM »
Let's not fail to consider the Elgin Marbles, or the Kohinoor diamond, who are the rightful owners, the original finders, or the ones who stole it last?

Now you've done it... :ROFL:


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Re: Hows Crimea doing today
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2016, 07:44:10 AM »
Let's not fail to consider the Elgin Marbles, or the Kohinoor diamond, who are the rightful owners, the original finders, or the ones who stole it last?

Now you've done it... :ROFL:

Just waiting for Wiz now!
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Re: Hows Crimea doing today
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2016, 08:02:41 AM »
Let's not fail to consider the Elgin Marbles, or the Kohinoor diamond, who are the rightful owners, the original finders, or the ones who stole it last?

What about all the loot stolen by your neighbours ? Half of its still missing probably in the Vatican or some where..
Ok is slightly off topic but those bloody Krauts took lots of stuff from peoples houses and never returned it :chuckle:
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Re: Hows Crimea doing today
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2016, 08:07:18 AM »
Isn't there an International law covering this sort of situation, whereby, the artefacts are returned ONLY to the lender museum??, and then its that museum who is responsible for any/all claims against said property...

No, the law is depending on perspective, is murky, evolving or unclear.

AvHdB, please either stop the pissed posting or try to think a little.

Let's give it a shot though, see what you can do in the sober posting, thought out, line of business?

In whose custody were these artifacts previously, when they were lent to the Dutch?
Was it (A) the Ukrainian government or (B) the museum in Crimea?

How does giving this stuff to the Ukrainian government reduce or clarify any outstanding claims?

Do you honestly think, given your extensive Google knowledge and Wikipedia research that the museum in Crimea would have lent these items to the Netherlands if they believed that by doing so they gave rights to their disposition to the Dutch?

If you think that lending artefacts gives disposition rights to the borrower, as a general principal, why do you think any museum ever lends out artefacts in their care to any other museum or exhibitor?

Please give this some thought in order to stop looking like a complete idiot by rushing your response.

In fact the Ukraine government as does any government sign off on a loan to foreign museum, this is long standing protocol and follows rules, sort of codified by IFAR. The 'custody' was in fact Ukraine, answer A.

Again I say the Dutch are not claiming any of the items. But one of the reasons that Russian museums have lended very little recently (last 10 years) is because of the claims against them regarding the Jewish collection. Since Andrew reading is a challenge, where do I say the collection should be returned to a 'Ukraine' museum.

The lending museum was clearly in Ukraine. The Dutch are infact giving the Russian museum the option to claim this collection. This is in response to your second question.

In your stupid initial response and now your reply you are looking like an used adult diaper. Perhaps it is time to find your colouring books or do a diaper change?
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Re: Hows Crimea doing today
« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2016, 08:21:37 AM »
In fact the Ukraine government as does any government sign off on a loan to foreign museum, this is long standing protocol and follows rules, sort of codified by IFAR. The 'custody' was in fact Ukraine, answer A.
But they weren't loaned, the musea owned them outright. Even before Crimea became Ukrainian... thats the whole point of the dispute and why I say: The west is facilitating theft now. Property should be put back to their rightful owners.

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Re: Hows Crimea doing today
« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2016, 10:13:21 AM »
[Property should be put back to their rightful owners.

'Quiet' ;)

Back in 2007 Russia only agreed to send some of 'it's' collection of French impressionist collection to London, if the UK promised not to seize the works being claimed by the descendants of families who had them 'confiscated' by the Bolsheviks ..

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Re: Hows Crimea doing today
« Reply #24 on: December 15, 2016, 10:17:27 AM »
In fact the Ukraine government as does any government sign off on a loan to foreign museum, this is long standing protocol and follows rules, sort of codified by IFAR. The 'custody' was in fact Ukraine, answer A.
But they weren't loaned, the musea owned them outright. Even before Crimea became Ukrainian... thats the whole point of the dispute and why I say: The west is facilitating theft now. Property should be put back to their rightful owners.

Yes loaned is not the correct word in the common use of this word. But any exhibition or item that is sent to another museum or entity that has care and protection of said collection or item, is generally is referred to as a loan.

No money is exchanged. Nor is there any promise made down the road. Ownership is not transferred.

The problem is others before the Krim musea=museum in Dutch seem to have claim to this collection. Another problem is the Krim Museum does not seem to meet the international criteria of a museum. Let me make clear the Allard Pierson and de-facto the Dutch do not want this hot potato. It is purely a guess but I suspect there will be a rather neat short term resolution to this involving the Hermitage, while the legal battles play out.

I am not sure up thread there was a reference to lawyers, and I suspect they will indeed do well, that is the truth. I also suspect more mud and BS will be posted on line (not RUA) regarding this.

MODERATORS: I suspect this general issue will come up again, but perhaps a new thread regarding this collection (loan) should be created.
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