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Author Topic: Starting up in Ukraine  (Read 13943 times)

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Offline SuperPanda

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Re: Starting up in Ukraine
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2016, 11:13:13 AM »
Right to clear a couple of things up;

Andrew, I looked at private label solutions, none of them came close to what we're looking to do. Admittedly it's very risky in Ukraine (and Russia) to attempt this kind of operation but it's a risk that were willing to take. I appreciate the advice and I am looking into other avenues as well as currently Ukraine is proving a right mare as factory location hasn't been found in anyway, shape or form.

Gipsy, hands would need to be greased whether this was in the FSU or the Balkans or Italy, it just costs a lot more to do it in the UK even taking into consideration the 'donations' one need to make in Ukraine.

Moby, the intention is that both myself and my business partner will be living in Ukraine (or wherever it's set up) for the foreseeable future in order to make sure it doesn't go completely tits up.

Steveboy, like everything when starting a business there's always a chance you'll close everything, it's a risk I'm prepared to take, only time will tell if it is the right choice or not.

AvHdB, I agree that starting up anywhere is a challenge and that it's more about the person you are than the set up.  If you're not strong willed and lack faith, you won't succeed.

Now on Tuesday I fly out to Kiev to meet some people that I've connected with through old contacts (completely out of the blue there but thankful) and then on Friday I head to St. Petersburg and Moscow to do something similar and meet up with my tinder girls. I may as we have some fun!  :smokin:

Thanks all for you help and opinions :)

Online AvHdB

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Re: Starting up in Ukraine
« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2016, 11:26:45 AM »
Super Panda,

Please let us know the out come.

There might be a happy ending to this.

Av
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Offline Gipsy

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Re: Starting up in Ukraine
« Reply #27 on: September 25, 2016, 11:48:54 AM »
Any start up anywhere is tough.

Both the UK and the Netherlands are it seems challenging.

The United States besides allot of lip service to small business is also raising the hurdles. In Ukraine you face other hurdles or barriers as well.

On the other side in all of the above countries you see successful start ups.

It depends less on the location and more on the commitment of those involved. Basically those here with a negative opinion are a bunch of moaning minnows with little more than arm chair expierence.

Who are you calling a moaning minnow??
Bridge is a lot like sex, either you need a good partner, or a decent hand... Woody Allen


Offline Gipsy

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Re: Starting up in Ukraine
« Reply #28 on: September 25, 2016, 11:50:41 AM »

Gipsy, hands would need to be greased whether this was in the FSU or the Balkans or Italy, it just costs a lot more to do it in the UK even taking into consideration the 'donations' one need to make in Ukraine.


I am involved in 2 businesses in Ru, and so far no palms have needed to be greased...

I have a large family in Ukraine some with their own businesses, they barely survive after being forced to do some protection payments.

I was also pressed about this whilst undertaking my business there..
Bridge is a lot like sex, either you need a good partner, or a decent hand... Woody Allen

Offline Texan77

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Re: Starting up in Ukraine
« Reply #29 on: September 25, 2016, 02:46:37 PM »
You never give any details like what kinds of businesses or where who had to be paid. So when it is all over with your statement do not mean anything. They are just vague comments.
3) There has been no "threat" to invade Ukraine. The US invented that and fed it to a complicit media.

Online andrewfi

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Re: Starting up in Ukraine
« Reply #30 on: September 25, 2016, 03:33:56 PM »
I assuming that you, superpanda, are referring to the United Kingdom when mentioning the UK?

I always understand price as being a reflection of risk. That is, higher price (and concomitant lower GP) reflects lower risk. Thus paying a higher price for your raw materials in the UK reflects two things:
1 the risk of failure is significantly lowered by dealing with suppliers,  or setting up the whole operation, in the United Kingdom.

2 the lowered risk also tends to increase predictability.

These are attributes that are usually considered worth paying for,  yes?

By taking on increased risk and lower predictability you are,  in essence, gambling. Given your stated preference is linked to non-business, emotional, factors is this a good risk to impose upon your business partners and investors, particularly given that your emotional bias is not likely to be reflected in any part of a business plan or budget shared with those partners and investors?

What is your assessment of the cost benefit of the use of,  what sounds like, a greenfield investment in a vertically integrated setup in Ukraine as compared to a similar setup in the UK or buying in raw materials from UK or Ukraine based suppliers?

To be straightforward about what you have shared I get the strong impression that this project and your stated preference for setting up the whole business in Ukraine is based upon your desire to find totty over there and enjoy the life of the wealthy(ish) foreign biznizman. Many people have had their illusions shattered by the introduction of harsh reality when,  too late, they understood the real costs of their dreams.

I am not saying that you shouldn't do it,  but rather that you need to exclude your emotional entanglement and work out the real costs,  real risks and rewards of your various options.

Having lived over here,  in what I  call FSU LITE for many years I have seen at first hand how many people came a cropper in this,  relatively easy, environment because they became confused by their desired image and lifestyle at the expense of their business abilities and knowhow. I know that the situation in Ukraine is much more difficult to manage for an objective business person than it is here.
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

Offline Gipsy

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Re: Starting up in Ukraine
« Reply #31 on: September 25, 2016, 10:01:29 PM »
You never give any details like what kinds of businesses or where who had to be paid. So when it is all over with your statement do not mean anything. They are just vague comments.

Exactly..

My private and personal life is just that......  Private....
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Online AvHdB

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Re: Starting up in Ukraine
« Reply #32 on: September 26, 2016, 08:08:13 AM »

By taking on increased risk and lower predictability you are,  in essence, gambling. Given your stated preference is linked to non-business, emotional, factors is this a good risk to impose upon your business partners and investors, particularly given that your emotional bias is not likely to be reflected in any part of a business plan or budget shared with those partners and investors?

To be straightforward about what you have shared I get the strong impression that this project and your stated preference for setting up the whole business in Ukraine is based upon your desire to find totty over there and enjoy the life of the wealthy(ish) foreign biznizman. Many people have had their illusions shattered by the introduction of harsh reality when,  too late, they understood the real costs of their dreams.

I am not saying that you shouldn't do it,  but rather that you need to exclude your emotional entanglement and work out the real costs,  real risks and rewards of your various options.


Andrew often does not agree with my perspective and vice versa. But he is pointing out some important issues that you need to answer for your self before you proceed.

I do not see you seeking information on relationships on RUA only a business venture. If you can 'afford' to lose your investment and the upside is worth it  than I say go for it.

It would be nice if you came back in 18 months and could show the bird to the naysayers. But there is an expression 'if it is easy everyone would be doing it'
“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

Offline Steveboy

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Re: Starting up in Ukraine
« Reply #33 on: September 27, 2016, 04:53:13 AM »
I assuming that you, superpanda, are referring to the United Kingdom when mentioning the UK?

I always understand price as being a reflection of risk. That is, higher price (and concomitant lower GP) reflects lower risk. Thus paying a higher price for your raw materials in the UK reflects two things:
1 the risk of failure is significantly lowered by dealing with suppliers,  or setting up the whole operation, in the United Kingdom.

2 the lowered risk also tends to increase predictability.

These are attributes that are usually considered worth paying for,  yes?

By taking on increased risk and lower predictability you are,  in essence, gambling. Given your stated preference is linked to non-business, emotional, factors is this a good risk to impose upon your business partners and investors, particularly given that your emotional bias is not likely to be reflected in any part of a business plan or budget shared with those partners and investors?

What is your assessment of the cost benefit of the use of,  what sounds like, a greenfield investment in a vertically integrated setup in Ukraine as compared to a similar setup in the UK or buying in raw materials from UK or Ukraine based suppliers?

To be straightforward about what you have shared I get the strong impression that this project and your stated preference for setting up the whole business in Ukraine is based upon your desire to find totty over there and enjoy the life of the wealthy(ish) foreign biznizman. Many people have had their illusions shattered by the introduction of harsh reality when,  too late, they understood the real costs of their dreams.

I am not saying that you shouldn't do it,  but rather that you need to exclude your emotional entanglement and work out the real costs,  real risks and rewards of your various options.

Having lived over here,  in what I  call FSU LITE for many years I have seen at first hand how many people came a cropper in this,  relatively easy, environment because they became confused by their desired image and lifestyle at the expense of their business abilities and knowhow. I know that the situation in Ukraine is much more difficult to manage for an objective business person than it is here.


To be straightforward about what you have shared I get the strong impression that this project and your stated preference for setting up the whole business in Ukraine is based upon your desire to find totty over there and enjoy the life of the wealthy(ish) foreign biznizman. Many people have had their illusions shattered by the introduction of harsh reality when,  too late, they understood the real costs of their dreams.

That is about as close to the truth as you possibly can get..St Petersburg is full of Turkish business men ( They usually sell 2/3 pairs of socks a week) You will see them in many clubs giving all the gab..funny they usually expect the women to pay for the taxi back , should they catch a young lady.. :laugh:
I support no government anywhere, ever, never. No institution, No religion!!

Offline Gipsy

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Re: Starting up in Ukraine
« Reply #34 on: September 27, 2016, 05:00:22 AM »
I assuming that you, superpanda, are referring to the United Kingdom when mentioning the UK?

I always understand price as being a reflection of risk. That is, higher price (and concomitant lower GP) reflects lower risk. Thus paying a higher price for your raw materials in the UK reflects two things:
1 the risk of failure is significantly lowered by dealing with suppliers,  or setting up the whole operation, in the United Kingdom.

2 the lowered risk also tends to increase predictability.

These are attributes that are usually considered worth paying for,  yes?

By taking on increased risk and lower predictability you are,  in essence, gambling. Given your stated preference is linked to non-business, emotional, factors is this a good risk to impose upon your business partners and investors, particularly given that your emotional bias is not likely to be reflected in any part of a business plan or budget shared with those partners and investors?

What is your assessment of the cost benefit of the use of,  what sounds like, a greenfield investment in a vertically integrated setup in Ukraine as compared to a similar setup in the UK or buying in raw materials from UK or Ukraine based suppliers?

To be straightforward about what you have shared I get the strong impression that this project and your stated preference for setting up the whole business in Ukraine is based upon your desire to find totty over there and enjoy the life of the wealthy(ish) foreign biznizman. Many people have had their illusions shattered by the introduction of harsh reality when,  too late, they understood the real costs of their dreams.

I am not saying that you shouldn't do it,  but rather that you need to exclude your emotional entanglement and work out the real costs,  real risks and rewards of your various options.

Having lived over here,  in what I  call FSU LITE for many years I have seen at first hand how many people came a cropper in this,  relatively easy, environment because they became confused by their desired image and lifestyle at the expense of their business abilities and knowhow. I know that the situation in Ukraine is much more difficult to manage for an objective business person than it is here.


To be straightforward about what you have shared I get the strong impression that this project and your stated preference for setting up the whole business in Ukraine is based upon your desire to find totty over there and enjoy the life of the wealthy(ish) foreign biznizman. Many people have had their illusions shattered by the introduction of harsh reality when,  too late, they understood the real costs of their dreams.

That is about as close to the truth as you possibly can get..St Petersburg is full of Turkish business men ( They usually sell 2/3 pairs of socks a week) You will see them in many clubs giving all the gab..funny they usually expect the women to pay for the taxi back , should they catch a young lady.. :laugh:

How much is a taxi from St P's to Turkey??   ;D
Bridge is a lot like sex, either you need a good partner, or a decent hand... Woody Allen

Online andrewfi

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Re: Starting up in Ukraine
« Reply #35 on: September 27, 2016, 07:14:05 AM »
I doubt that many people take a taxi, with their bride de nuit, much further than their apartment on Fontanka. My recollections of my time there would suggest that Steve's observation is not far off the mark though. ;)
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Offline Steveboy

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Re: Starting up in Ukraine
« Reply #36 on: September 27, 2016, 09:16:38 AM »
Making a business in Ukraine! We advertise in Yandex.ru all ok no big problems.. THEN it comes to advertising in Yandex.ua    Its pretty well the usual Ukrainian story... forget about it! fake clicks/fake women/marriage agencies/other sites clicking your ads.. I think they have some set up like maybe 20 women working for them in some stupid sitting room and the boss says "When your home tonight girls I want each of you to click this link and make a fake profile"

Its so pathetic it is laughable..and its funny you can have a Russian site not really much trouble with web site hackers .. Ukrainian well you just sit and wait for some asshole to try.
Every thing in Ukraine stinks, and if its anything to do with dating women even more so.

A sad state of affairs ... :(
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Offline Gipsy

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Re: Starting up in Ukraine
« Reply #37 on: September 27, 2016, 11:24:55 AM »
^Unless one has a "Roof" (ie, someone in a very high position, and a partner in the company), the business will not survive...
There is currently so much corruption in Ukraine that starting a business without protection is a big risk.
There are also restrictions on the manufacture of alcohol which will need to be addresses, such as "Customs bonded warehousing", and inclusion into the EU quota system..
Good Luck...
Bridge is a lot like sex, either you need a good partner, or a decent hand... Woody Allen

Offline Ste

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Re: Starting up in Ukraine
« Reply #38 on: September 27, 2016, 01:47:14 PM »
^Unless one has a "Roof" (ie, someone in a very high position, and a partner in the company), the business will not survive...
There is currently so much corruption in Ukraine that starting a business without protection is a big risk.
There are also restrictions on the manufacture of alcohol which will need to be addresses, such as "Customs bonded warehousing", and inclusion into the EU quota system..
Good Luck...

Same is Russia tho to be fair, everyone I know there in business has a Krisha...

Corruption is rife in all spheres, just in some it's just at the top, in others it's at every level....
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Offline Texan77

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Re: Starting up in Ukraine
« Reply #39 on: September 27, 2016, 03:30:06 PM »
Making a business in Ukraine! We advertise in Yandex.ru all ok no big problems.. THEN it comes to advertising in Yandex.ua    Its pretty well the usual Ukrainian story... forget about it! fake clicks/fake women/marriage agencies/other sites clicking your ads.. I think they have some set up like maybe 20 women working for them in some stupid sitting room and the boss says "When your home tonight girls I want each of you to click this link and make a fake profile"

Its so pathetic it is laughable..and its funny you can have a Russian site not really much trouble with web site hackers .. Ukrainian well you just sit and wait for some asshole to try.
Every thing in Ukraine stinks, and if its anything to do with dating women even more so.

A sad state of affairs ... :(

Steve I really think your problem with not being able to raise your rates and make any much money in the dating business has to do with your prejudges. I dated in the Ukraine and did not have such problem. No it was not prefect and yes I ran into some girls on the scam but you know if you are an older guy dating younger girls that happens every where including here. But there are real girls there that want to find a real man. You seem to be so clueless you do not even seem to understand what these girl are wanting in a man. Then you have a dis like for Americans and total hate for the USA this even narrows your market more. You might find some really classless person that does not notice but most of us will. Basically men from the USA date Ukrainians not Russians. If you do not like either how are you going to do well in this business? European tend to date Russian not Ukrainians though I have met Europeans in the Ukraine dating also.

At this point in time I have hired a number of Ukrainians to work on my girls flat. They all have work very hard for a very reasonable rate. I think I got ripped off less there than I would here. Sub contractor are not usually the countries most honest people. It is true that I have tried to hire photo editors and such and that really did not work out. It was so obviously that it was not going to work out I never hired any of them. But guess what, artist of all types including web site builders are among the most unreliable people you find in the USA also. The Ukraine is just not better. I have a good time when I go to the Ukraine and most of the people are usually very nice to me.
3) There has been no "threat" to invade Ukraine. The US invented that and fed it to a complicit media.

Online AvHdB

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Re: Starting up in Ukraine
« Reply #40 on: September 28, 2016, 02:06:43 AM »
Making a business in Ukraine! We advertise in Yandex.ru all ok no big problems.. THEN it comes to advertising in Yandex.ua    Its pretty well the usual Ukrainian story... forget about it! fake clicks/fake women/marriage agencies/other sites clicking your ads.. I think they have some set up like maybe 20 women working for them in some stupid sitting room and the boss says "When your home tonight girls I want each of you to click this link and make a fake profile"

Its so pathetic it is laughable..and its funny you can have a Russian site not really much trouble with web site hackers .. Ukrainian well you just sit and wait for some asshole to try.
Every thing in Ukraine stinks, and if its anything to do with dating women even more so.

A sad state of affairs ... :(

Steve I really think your problem with not being able to raise your rates and make any much money in the dating business has to do with your prejudges. I dated in the Ukraine and did not have such problem. No it was not prefect and yes I ran into some girls on the scam but you know if you are an older guy dating younger girls that happens every where including here. But there are real girls there that want to find a real man. You seem to be so clueless you do not even seem to understand what these girl are wanting in a man. Then you have a dis like for Americans and total hate for the USA this even narrows your market more. You might find some really classless person that does not notice but most of us will. Basically men from the USA date Ukrainians not Russians. If you do not like either how are you going to do well in this business? European tend to date Russian not Ukrainians though I have met Europeans in the Ukraine dating also.

At this point in time I have hired a number of Ukrainians to work on my girls flat. They all have work very hard for a very reasonable rate. I think I got ripped off less there than I would here. Sub contractor are not usually the countries most honest people. It is true that I have tried to hire photo editors and such and that really did not work out. It was so obviously that it was not going to work out I never hired any of them. But guess what, artist of all types including web site builders are among the most unreliable people you find in the USA also. The Ukraine is just not better. I have a good time when I go to the Ukraine and most of the people are usually very nice to me.

Besides the rather painful hatred that Steve express towards all things Ukraine. I sort of wonder when was Steve's last visit to Ukraine.

There are two different 'economies' being discussed. Like Texan I have not had any problem working with individuals on the flat of my wife in Kiev. But I also suspect Tex as I am are very hands on and can figure things out on our own. Whether hanging wall paper, refinishing floors or installing items. Though I do not get involved with gas and electric installations, but the guys who have come for this sort of work have been professional and reasonable.

Panda is attempting or dreaming of starting an export business from Ukraine to the UK (I suspect England) it involves at least a couple million £. Whether he can get the venture up and running is another matter. Most of his expense will not be in Ukraine but most likely in the UK marketing. At this point I doubt he needs much of a 'roof' just common sense to get his product over the Channel. Can he loose his investment in Ukraine, yes. Can he make money in the UK perhaps. But I wonder does the UK need another vodka product?

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Re: Starting up in Ukraine
« Reply #41 on: September 28, 2016, 04:40:55 AM »
The krysha might well take the form of a JV partner, as I noted above, without a person (or firm) who has the knowledge and contacts to get through the morass of formal and informal hindrances I'd bet that a venture will not succeed. At the same time that JV partner will likely become the source of the trouble that eventually either forces a loss of control or sufficient loss of money that the venture, from the perspective of the foreign investor, will fail.

This is not just a Ukraine thing, it is a business 'thing', albeit highlighted in sharp relief in Ukraine at this time. I am sure that Superpanda when he moves past the realm of informal desk research will be told pretty much what I, and others, have been telling him.
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Offline SuperPanda

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Re: Starting up in Ukraine
« Reply #42 on: October 03, 2016, 10:45:23 AM »
So I'm back and firstly, outside of office work Kiev, St. Petes and Moscow are fantastic places to visit.

Secondly both are bloody logistical nightmares to set up any kind of business that involves what ours would. Financially both are more than suitable and are winners on that front however setup in order to be able to finance and export with as little hassle as possible is a nightmare and I didn't trust a single one of the people I met (bar my friends father who was supportive but advised me that it would be pointless if the market is in the UK).

I've listened to people out there, I had many conversations with my partner and the UK office and we all decided it isn't worth the ball ache at this time, while it socks financially in the UK, we'Lloyd be more confident of not losing the investment.

My main positives are that I met a beautiful girl called Alena and I'll be keeping in contact with her, that's for sure! I did enjoy ny trip outside of business and I must go back.

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Re: Starting up in Ukraine
« Reply #43 on: October 03, 2016, 10:51:03 AM »
Desk research, wonderful thing, if you do it.
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Re: Starting up in Ukraine
« Reply #44 on: October 13, 2016, 10:40:44 AM »


My main positives are that I met a beautiful girl called Alena and I'll be keeping in contact with her, that's for sure! I did enjoy ny trip outside of business and I must go back.

Every cloud has a silver lining ? :)
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Offline Steveboy

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Re: Starting up in Ukraine
« Reply #45 on: October 31, 2016, 02:11:33 PM »
Making a business in Ukraine! We advertise in Yandex.ru all ok no big problems.. THEN it comes to advertising in Yandex.ua    Its pretty well the usual Ukrainian story... forget about it! fake clicks/fake women/marriage agencies/other sites clicking your ads.. I think they have some set up like maybe 20 women working for them in some stupid sitting room and the boss says "When your home tonight girls I want each of you to click this link and make a fake profile"

Its so pathetic it is laughable..and its funny you can have a Russian site not really much trouble with web site hackers .. Ukrainian well you just sit and wait for some asshole to try.
Every thing in Ukraine stinks, and if its anything to do with dating women even more so.

A sad state of affairs ... :(

Steve I really think your problem with not being able to raise your rates and make any much money in the dating business has to do with your prejudges. I dated in the Ukraine and did not have such problem. No it was not prefect and yes I ran into some girls on the scam but you know if you are an older guy dating younger girls that happens every where including here. But there are real girls there that want to find a real man. You seem to be so clueless you do not even seem to understand what these girl are wanting in a man. Then you have a dis like for Americans and total hate for the USA this even narrows your market more. You might find some really classless person that does not notice but most of us will. Basically men from the USA date Ukrainians not Russians. If you do not like either how are you going to do well in this business? European tend to date Russian not Ukrainians though I have met Europeans in the Ukraine dating also.

At this point in time I have hired a number of Ukrainians to work on my girls flat. They all have work very hard for a very reasonable rate. I think I got ripped off less there than I would here. Sub contractor are not usually the countries most honest people. It is true that I have tried to hire photo editors and such and that really did not work out. It was so obviously that it was not going to work out I never hired any of them. But guess what, artist of all types including web site builders are among the most unreliable people you find in the USA also. The Ukraine is just not better. I have a good time when I go to the Ukraine and most of the people are usually very nice to me.

Besides the rather painful hatred that Steve express towards all things Ukraine. I sort of wonder when was Steve's last visit to Ukraine.

There are two different 'economies' being discussed. Like Texan I have not had any problem working with individuals on the flat of my wife in Kiev. But I also suspect Tex as I am are very hands on and can figure things out on our own. Whether hanging wall paper, refinishing floors or installing items. Though I do not get involved with gas and electric installations, but the guys who have come for this sort of work have been professional and reasonable.

Panda is attempting or dreaming of starting an export business from Ukraine to the UK (I suspect England) it involves at least a couple million £. Whether he can get the venture up and running is another matter. Most of his expense will not be in Ukraine but most likely in the UK marketing. At this point I doubt he needs much of a 'roof' just common sense to get his product over the Channel. Can he loose his investment in Ukraine, yes. Can he make money in the UK perhaps. But I wonder does the UK need another vodka product?

Nearly two years ago was my last trip to Ukraine.. Though Im off there for a few days with the wife some time in February to meet some shady Ukrainians  :)
I support no government anywhere, ever, never. No institution, No religion!!

Offline Steveboy

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Re: Starting up in Ukraine
« Reply #46 on: October 31, 2016, 02:13:51 PM »


My main positives are that I met a beautiful girl called Alena and I'll be keeping in contact with her, that's for sure! I did enjoy ny trip outside of business and I must go back.

Every cloud has a silver lining ? :)

Where is the silver lining then? ???
I support no government anywhere, ever, never. No institution, No religion!!

Offline Gipsy

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Re: Starting up in Ukraine
« Reply #47 on: December 17, 2016, 10:37:50 PM »
This is how it is in Ukraine...

https://www.Kievpost.com/business/french-winemaker-odesa-oblast-says-business-attack.html

Ukrainians get extremely jealous if your business is succeeding and want a slice...
Bridge is a lot like sex, either you need a good partner, or a decent hand... Woody Allen

Offline Steveboy

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Re: Starting up in Ukraine
« Reply #48 on: December 19, 2016, 08:12:08 AM »
This is how it is in Ukraine...

https://www.Kievpost.com/business/french-winemaker-odesa-oblast-says-business-attack.html

Ukrainians get extremely jealous if your business is succeeding and want a slice...

Its called "F*** lazy"
I support no government anywhere, ever, never. No institution, No religion!!

Offline Texan77

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Re: Starting up in Ukraine
« Reply #49 on: December 19, 2016, 09:36:43 AM »
You see Steve you started off shady Ukrainians before you even met them. Now that is really having an open mind.  :'( I am sure after you met them all your worse thoughts were confirmed. Amazing how that works out.

Yea, Ukraine is so corrupt that I am thinking of buying a second apartment in the Ukraine. I found my girl was really good at getting this work done and controlling cost. I was really pleasantly surprise at how well this worked. She was able to get the work done so cheaply and so well that I never did any work on the flat myself. I went over there and bought supplies and paid the labor.

My girl is needing less support now with new apartment. So the flat in the Ukraine is returning on the investment if you think of it like that.

I am having her trained to do photo editing. We are planning to have a new business where I find her clients from the USA and she edits the pictures in the Ukraine. This will require a very small amount of money both in training as well as the computer to work on. Her private teacher is costing me $7.50 per hour and she is taking classes for 6 hours a week. I already took over a editing lap top with software on it for her to learn on. She is in her second month of training now. We expect she will start to take clients in February.


 
3) There has been no "threat" to invade Ukraine. The US invented that and fed it to a complicit media.


 

 

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