It's that time of year- Eurovision

[andrewfi]

I can't really understand what the fall out is, Eurovision has always been a political vote. It's just been ramped up a bit this year with Ukraine winning.

Indeed.

I wonder how many of the Ukraine bashers would have had a different opinion 2 years ago 

That's a valid point but the truth is that this is an issue no matter who won,  or what the merits of a song.
The two groups of votes were instituted in order to avoid the accusations of rigging of the votes and to add transparency. If the two groups of voters were both unbiased then,  on the whole we would expect similar,  but not exactly the same, results from each group.

When there is a large variance that is a sure sign that something went wrong.

I was interested in the reports from the Daily Mail because it came before the event's voting and accurately presaged what actually happened.

To my mind the issue is not Ukraine and Russia but the voting system and the controls to ensure that votes are given accurately, reflecting the aims of the competition. That clearly did not happen.

Should Russia be surprised at the actions of the national juries? I doubt it,  but that does not excuse it.
Should the Ukrainian song have been allowed? In my opinion,  not. I think that in a different year it would not have been allowed to be an entry. If the organisers knew of the background of the singer then,  again,  it is unlikely that the entry would have been allowed with the justification that was given by the Ukrainian team.

Should Russia have won? Well,  if the national juries had followed the telephone voting even only slightly then the Russian entry would have won,  it would have been a popular choice with the people of Europe and a huge nightmare for the organisers and other close stakeholders.

Were the judges nobbled? I don't know,  but in one way or another something went badly wrong with the judging.

[Czenny]

I can't really understand what the fall out is, Eurovision has always been a political vote. It's just been ramped up a bit this year with Ukraine winning.

Indeed.

I wonder how many of the Ukraine bashers would have had a different opinion 2 years ago 

That's a valid point but the truth is that this is an issue no matter who won,  or what the merits of a song.
The two groups of votes were instituted in order to avoid the accusations of rigging of the votes and to add transparency. If the two groups of voters were both unbiased then,  on the whole we would expect similar,  but not exactly the same, results from each group.

When there is a large variance that is a sure sign that something went wrong.

I was interested in the reports from the Daily Mail because it came before the event's voting and accurately presaged what actually happened.

To my mind the issue is not Ukraine and Russia but the voting system and the controls to ensure that votes are given accurately, reflecting the aims of the competition. That clearly did not happen.

Should Russia be surprised at the actions of the national juries? I doubt it,  but that does not excuse it.
Should the Ukrainian song have been allowed? In my opinion,  not. I think that in a different year it would not have been allowed to be an entry. If the organisers knew of the background of the singer then,  again,  it is unlikely that the entry would have been allowed with the justification that was given by the Ukrainian team.

Should Russia have won? Well,  if the national juries had followed the telephone voting even only slightly then the Russian entry would have won,  it would have been a popular choice with the people of Europe and a huge nightmare for the organisers and other close stakeholders.

Were the judges nobbled? I don't know,  but in one way or another something went badly wrong with the judging.

Excelletly said. With your permisson I'd like to post your text for my friends in Ukraine and Russia, may I?

[msmoby]

That's a valid point but the truth is that this is an issue no matter who won,  or what the merits of a song.
The two groups of votes were instituted in order to avoid the accusations of rigging of the votes and to add transparency. If the two groups of voters were both unbiased then,  on the whole we would expect similar,  but not exactly the same, results from each group.

When there is a large variance that is a sure sign that something went wrong.

Quite  .. Poland went from last to fifth - thus proving that ex-pat votes distort the results and there were eth. Russians - living in Germany and the Baltic States who disproportionately pushed up the Russian entrant.

[andrewfi]

Czenny, sorry I did not see this before. You are welcome to quote me elsewhere if you wish. I'd prefer, if possible,  that there be a link to the source as well.

An interesting thing popped up about the song. Poroshenko needs rather better briefing I think.

Of course, this changes nothing.

[Tom Cat]

Ukraine defeated Russia — at Eurovision. Here’s why that matters

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/05/22/ukraine-defeated-russia-at-eurovision-heres-why-that-matters/