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Author Topic: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.  (Read 7940 times)

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Offline Anteros

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The notion democracy includes free expressions of one's views, doesn't it? So.
My opinion is as follows.
Anteros has written
Quote
I think you actually probably agree with me that Putin and company use the Great Patriotic War aka WWII as a way to deflect away from bad economy and greed of his inner circle of Oligarchs.

I do not agree with that.
In the FSU 9 May was ALWAYS a great holiday, much has been devoted to celebrate it: concerts, movies, and so on. In Russia and Ukraine it was and is the same. You may call it the tradition to immortalize memories of GRW heroes and those who dead in the war. It was a big, very big tragedy for the country, it was a lesson also, it was times when soviet people presented their strength and unity, it was a kind of examination of humanity, it was an example of existential sense of life, it was examples of sacrifices.
If for example the economy is excellent the day of 9 of May will be celebrated more intensively so to say in the country.
Putin is just a president(just!) . We have here millions of people who waits this Day, and it IS IMPORTANT for them.

Just come here and speak with ordinary people who speak of GPW with eyes full of tears and I am sure you will understand.
But being intelligent lady I understand your way of thinking and I understand why your thought are of that kind. Sometimes we need to penetrate in the subject we analyse ...we must feel the mood of analysed event  to understand this or that in this complicated life. It's not simple...ever...

With all my respect to all members of the forum.  :)

What I wrote was directed at Av, not at you.  I am not surprised at your response. 

Also please understand that my criticism is of the Putin regime, not of the ordinary people who lost family members.  That is much different and on the actual day (May 9th) I will write something which is respectful and not critical.  Hope you understand the delineation of my thoughts.

Czenny was only answering with what many others would like to convey.....but in a more informed, personal and real style. You seem to have a real hatred for anything Putin/Russia and it surprises me that you spend so much time on a forum like this.

You'll also find that the "UK-pro Putin bunch" are only telling it how they see it. A strong man with plenty to be admired, taking decisions for his countries benefit but making some mistakes from a world citizen perspective. The thing is though, Western media do their best to portray Putin as the devil and sadly folk like you lap it up, whereas he's traditionally been less problematic or intrusive than any US president. You just don't like him because he won't roll over like a submissive dog.

It's clear to see why you can't grasp this after all the debates we've had. For us, its about the truth and you, a one sided American isolated mentality.

I don't dislike Russia at all.  If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.  He's taken his country 180 degrees in the wrong direction and it's you who laps up the pro-Kremlin propaganda.

Russia is a beautiful country with tough but beautiful people.  I just think they deserve better.  You should do some research about Putin and his St. Petersburg days and about Putin and his involvement in the apartment bombings which led to Russia getting back in to the Chechen conflict.

Are Russians living in exile also having a "real hatred for Russia" and "lapping up Western media portrayals of Putin"?  No, they love their country very much and they wish to bring changes which would improve the lives of average Russians, not just the elite, wealthy and connected at the top.  I suggest you start to read some alternative sources.  This one might help you.

http://imrussia.org/en/the-rundown/media-must-reads/2549-the-kremlin’s-perpetual-geopolitics,-the-putin-myth,-and-russia’s-long-search-for-freedom


Excerpt of article

"Nevertheless, both experts express regret that the Russian people are still very prone to propaganda. One explanation proposed for this gullibility is that people don’t really think about high-level foreign and domestic policy on a daily basis, and therefore, when it comes to these issues, they simply repeat whatever they have heard on TV. In reality, people are concerned about routine problems—health care, education, grocery shopping, work. Another explanation, then, is that constant evocation of the image of foreign enemies surrounding Russia and promotion of myths of the country’s patriotic past both serve as key instruments of mobilization. At the same time, Alekseeva and Bakhmin argue that propaganda cannot last forever, and eventually common sense will prevail. They also agree that in terms of mentality and culture, Russia is a European country, despite the fact that Soviet attitudes have deep roots in the public mind and “manifest themselves when the opportunity occurs.”
Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

Online AvHdB

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I don't dislike Russia at all.  If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.  He's taken his country 180 degrees in the wrong direction and it's you who laps up the pro-Kremlin propaganda.

Russia is a beautiful country with tough but beautiful people.  I just think they deserve better.  You should do some research about Putin and his St. Petersburg days and about Putin and his involvement in the apartment bombings which led to Russia getting back in to the Chechen conflict.

Are Russians living in exile also having a "real hatred for Russia" and "lapping up Western media portrayals of Putin"?  No, they love their country very much and they wish to bring changes which would improve the lives of average Russians, not just the elite, wealthy and connected at the top.  I suggest you start to read some alternative sources.  This one might help you.


OK it is an annoyance that I have with posters of RUA they will move an existing thread in a different direction to suit there opinions and thoughts. It is wrong in my opinion. (I admit I am also guilty) but there are others who seems this is a terminal disease.

Please why is it so challenging to just stay on the topic without injecting opinions, that are often only tagently related.  There are others with agendas, personally I wish they would just shut up.

I use your above quote trying to justify posting history or style, but I can find another bakers dozen from others to show the same behavior on various threads.

PLEASE EVERYONE SHOW AT LEAST SOME RESPECT TO THE CONTEXT OF THE ORIGIONAL THREAD.
“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

Online rosco

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don't dislike Russia at all.  If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.  He's taken his country 180 degrees in the wrong direction and it's you who laps up the pro-Kremlin propaganda.

Russia is a beautiful country with tough but beautiful people.  I just think they deserve better.  You should do some research about Putin and his St. Petersburg days and about Putin and his involvement in the apartment bombings which led to Russia getting back in to the Chechen conflict.

Are Russians living in exile also having a "real hatred for Russia" and "lapping up Western media portrayals of Putin"?  No, they love their country very much and they wish to bring changes which would improve the lives of average Russians, not just the elite, wealthy and connected at the top.  I suggest you start to read some alternative sources.  This one might help you.


The difference is mate, I comment on that which is happening....not what I've been told is happening.

Putin has a dark past and he's made some decisions which I don't necessarily agree with but he can speak a lot of sense on many a subject. This isn't something I've found myself thinking whilst listening to the usual tripe delivered from Washington on foreign affairs. That idiot John Kirby is a great example....he should have been swallowed.

I'm not a Putin supporter, hating everything American, its just obvious that the Western media can't separate this and only portray a negative. If he were that bad a man, pulling down an entire country then why do statistics not back that up and why does he have such a majority support? Seems strange to me......

Av - Chill out and try to work around your condition. It's only a forum.....


Online yankee

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All of this crap should be moved to its own thread.  Maybe something like "for thoes thate Putin but love Russia".
What is worse than not being able to get what you don't even want?

Offline Anteros

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don't dislike Russia at all.  If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.  He's taken his country 180 degrees in the wrong direction and it's you who laps up the pro-Kremlin propaganda.

Russia is a beautiful country with tough but beautiful people.  I just think they deserve better.  You should do some research about Putin and his St. Petersburg days and about Putin and his involvement in the apartment bombings which led to Russia getting back in to the Chechen conflict.

Are Russians living in exile also having a "real hatred for Russia" and "lapping up Western media portrayals of Putin"?  No, they love their country very much and they wish to bring changes which would improve the lives of average Russians, not just the elite, wealthy and connected at the top.  I suggest you start to read some alternative sources.  This one might help you.


If he were that bad a man, pulling down an entire country then why do statistics not back that up and why does he have such a majority support? Seems strange to me......


You claim that you "comment on that which is happening, not what I've (you've) been told is happening", and then your write the gem above.

The irony of it is too much!   

:ROFL:     :ROFL:     :ROFL:
Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

Offline Manny

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All of this crap should be moved to its own thread.  Maybe something like "for thoes thate Putin but love Russia".

Now done.

Excerpt of article

"Nevertheless, both experts express regret that the Russian people are still very prone to propaganda. One explanation proposed for this gullibility is that people don’t really think about high-level foreign and domestic policy on a daily basis, and therefore, when it comes to these issues, they simply repeat whatever they have heard on TV. In reality, people are concerned about routine problems—health care, education, grocery shopping, work. Another explanation, then, is that constant evocation of the image of foreign enemies surrounding Russia and promotion of myths of the country’s patriotic past both serve as key instruments of mobilization.

Substitute US for Russia in that and it still works.

Offline Czenny

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Substitute US for Russia in that and it still works.

  +1000   :thumbsup:
Livet är fullt av ironier.

Offline Anteros

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All of this crap should be moved to its own thread.  Maybe something like "for thoes thate Putin but love Russia".

Now done.

Excerpt of article

"Nevertheless, both experts express regret that the Russian people are still very prone to propaganda. One explanation proposed for this gullibility is that people don’t really think about high-level foreign and domestic policy on a daily basis, and therefore, when it comes to these issues, they simply repeat whatever they have heard on TV. In reality, people are concerned about routine problems—health care, education, grocery shopping, work. Another explanation, then, is that constant evocation of the image of foreign enemies surrounding Russia and promotion of myths of the country’s patriotic past both serve as key instruments of mobilization.

Substitute US for Russia in that and it still works.

I don't deny that Americans can be prone to believing propaganda.  Right now the left is upset that North Carolina wants men to use the men's bathroom, and women to use the women's.  It's pretty bizarre and I wonder, when will it end?

It was also true that America initially supported GWB and his war in Iraq.  Eventually people woke up and smelled the coffee.

Just like eventually Russians will likely wake up and smell the coffee that their economy is really bad, and why.  :coffeeread:
Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

Online Wiz

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Are Russians living in exile also having a "real hatred for Russia" and "lapping up Western media portrayals of Putin"?  No, they love their country very much and they wish to bring changes which would improve the lives of average Russians, not just the elite, wealthy and connected at the top.  I suggest you start to read some alternative sources.  This one might help you.

http://imrussia.org/en/the-rundown/media-must-reads/2549-the-kremlin’s-perpetual-geopolitics,-the-putin-myth,-and-russia’s-long-search-for-freedom

Poor Anteros

I really feel sorry for you for your ignorance and inability to recognize a propaganda site from miles away.

Just away for a few days.... and comeback to read the same old trolling crap.

Did you bother to read the about us page of the site you recommended or check the WHOIS?

Quote
About us

The Institute of Modern Russia (IMR) is a public policy think-tank that strives to establish an intellectual framework for building a democratic Russia governed by rule of law. IMR promotes social, economic, and institutional development in Russia through research, analysis, advocacy and outreach. Our goal is to advance Russia’s integration into the community of democracies and to improve its cooperation on the global stage.

PAVEL KHODORKOVSKY, President

Pavel Khodorkovsky is the president of the Institute of Modern Russia, an organization he founded to continue the work his father, Mikhail Khodorkovsky, began through the Open Russia Foundation.

Mikhail Khodorkovsky, isn't that Jewish Russian oligarch, Owner of "Yukos" who went to prison for not paying any taxes and was released and let to travel abroad by Putin?

Isn't he the same chap who before going to prison transferred all his Yukos holdings to the Rothchild's?

Hope you are paid well for your Trolling........ and your intellectual deficiency.

Commenting about the toilets on North Carolina is your level ..... but commenting about financial matters... beyond your simple understandings.

Just like eventually Russians will likely wake up and smell the coffee that their economy is really bad, and why.

When you wake up and smell the coffee .... you may realise finally why the Monkey you have as president came urgently to "eat with her Majesty our Queen..... " and why he went to Germany (your protectorate)  to tell the German people that they must sign the TTIP!

Check your financial STATS....... before opening your mouth and read the latest artcle by Paul Graig Roberts.

Listen what this chap is saying and try to understand.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmY7aP6Jbgo" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmY7aP6Jbgo</a>
"For every beauty there is an eye to see it. For every truth there is an ear to hear it."


Offline Orchid

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don't dislike Russia at all.  If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.  He's taken his country 180 degrees in the wrong direction and it's you who laps up the pro-Kremlin propaganda.

Russia is a beautiful country with tough but beautiful people.  I just think they deserve better.  You should do some research about Putin and his St. Petersburg days and about Putin and his involvement in the apartment bombings which led to Russia getting back in to the Chechen conflict.

Are Russians living in exile also having a "real hatred for Russia" and "lapping up Western media portrayals of Putin"?  No, they love their country very much and they wish to bring changes which would improve the lives of average Russians, not just the elite, wealthy and connected at the top.  I suggest you start to read some alternative sources.  This one might help you.


The difference is mate, I comment on that which is happening....not what I've been told is happening.

Putin has a dark past and he's made some decisions which I don't necessarily agree with but he can speak a lot of sense on many a subject. This isn't something I've found myself thinking whilst listening to the usual tripe delivered from Washington on foreign affairs. That idiot John Kirby is a great example....he should have been swallowed.

I'm not a Putin supporter, hating everything American, its just obvious that the Western media can't separate this and only portray a negative. If he were that bad a man, pulling down an entire country then why do statistics not back that up and why does he have such a majority support? Seems strange to me......

Av - Chill out and try to work around your condition. It's only a forum.....

It does not seem strange to me at all.
Statistics does not work in a country striving on fear.
There was time in Russia, when children thanked Stalin for happy childhood watching their parents being shot by government.
Majority of population supported Stalin creating the Evil Empire.
Putin is not as bad as Stalin, but.......
You can finish this thought for me.

Offline Annushka

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ЖитиЕ МоЕ :KISSSS:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh7_HKynNR0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh7_HKynNR0</a>

Online msmoby

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Poor Anteros

I really feel sorry for you for your ignorance and inability to recognize a propaganda site from miles away.

Just away for a few days.... and comeback to read the same old trolling crap.

Did you bother to read the about us page of the site you recommended or check the WHOIS?

Quote
About us

The Institute of Modern Russia (IMR) is a public policy think-tank that strives to establish an intellectual framework for building a democratic Russia governed by rule of law. IMR promotes social, economic, and institutional development in Russia through research, analysis, advocacy and outreach. Our goal is to advance Russia’s integration into the community of democracies and to improve its cooperation on the global stage.

PAVEL KHODORKOVSKY, President

Pavel Khodorkovsky is the president of the Institute of Modern Russia, an organization he founded to continue the work his father, Mikhail Khodorkovsky, began through the Open Russia Foundation.

Mikhail Khodorkovsky, isn't that Jewish Russian oligarch, Owner of "Yukos" who went to prison for not paying any taxes and was released and let to travel abroad by Putin?

Isn't he the same chap who before going to prison transferred all his Yukos holdings to the Rothchild's?

Yet another Zionists v the world - 'excuse' from Wiz


MK''s mistake was to challenge Putin - to go back on a 'deal' to stay out of politics - and let the Oligarch's make money.

He was made an example of what happens if you take on the regime.

Pure and simple - that my last response - and this probably - will not see the light of day -  suggests that folks have something they need to cover up ...  :chuckle:

Online Wiz

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don't dislike Russia at all.  If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.  He's taken his country 180 degrees in the wrong direction and it's you who laps up the pro-Kremlin propaganda.

Russia is a beautiful country with tough but beautiful people.  I just think they deserve better.  You should do some research about Putin and his St. Petersburg days and about Putin and his involvement in the apartment bombings which led to Russia getting back in to the Chechen conflict.

Are Russians living in exile also having a "real hatred for Russia" and "lapping up Western media portrayals of Putin"?  No, they love their country very much and they wish to bring changes which would improve the lives of average Russians, not just the elite, wealthy and connected at the top.  I suggest you start to read some alternative sources.  This one might help you.


The difference is mate, I comment on that which is happening....not what I've been told is happening.

Putin has a dark past and he's made some decisions which I don't necessarily agree with but he can speak a lot of sense on many a subject. This isn't something I've found myself thinking whilst listening to the usual tripe delivered from Washington on foreign affairs. That idiot John Kirby is a great example....he should have been swallowed.

I'm not a Putin supporter, hating everything American, its just obvious that the Western media can't separate this and only portray a negative. If he were that bad a man, pulling down an entire country then why do statistics not back that up and why does he have such a majority support? Seems strange to me......

Av - Chill out and try to work around your condition. It's only a forum.....

It does not seem strange to me at all.
Statistics does not work in a country striving on fear.
There was time in Russia, when children thanked Stalin for happy childhood watching their parents being shot by government.
Majority of population supported Stalin creating the Evil Empire.

Putin is not as bad as Stalin, but.......
You can finish this thought for me.

...... I would like to know how would you run the country that was near to starvation, after the collapse of the USSR, when he took over and what else would you do differently to reach this state of development?

PS: Don't forget that he has to deal not only with external enemies but also with the internal 5th Phalange of the Neoliberal Atlantists too. Anyway nobody can match the US perfect Democracy especially when they never had one to taste it!
"For every beauty there is an eye to see it. For every truth there is an ear to hear it."


Offline Anteros

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don't dislike Russia at all.  If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.  He's taken his country 180 degrees in the wrong direction and it's you who laps up the pro-Kremlin propaganda.

Russia is a beautiful country with tough but beautiful people.  I just think they deserve better.  You should do some research about Putin and his St. Petersburg days and about Putin and his involvement in the apartment bombings which led to Russia getting back in to the Chechen conflict.

Are Russians living in exile also having a "real hatred for Russia" and "lapping up Western media portrayals of Putin"?  No, they love their country very much and they wish to bring changes which would improve the lives of average Russians, not just the elite, wealthy and connected at the top.  I suggest you start to read some alternative sources.  This one might help you.


The difference is mate, I comment on that which is happening....not what I've been told is happening.

Putin has a dark past and he's made some decisions which I don't necessarily agree with but he can speak a lot of sense on many a subject. This isn't something I've found myself thinking whilst listening to the usual tripe delivered from Washington on foreign affairs. That idiot John Kirby is a great example....he should have been swallowed.

I'm not a Putin supporter, hating everything American, its just obvious that the Western media can't separate this and only portray a negative. If he were that bad a man, pulling down an entire country then why do statistics not back that up and why does he have such a majority support? Seems strange to me......

Av - Chill out and try to work around your condition. It's only a forum.....

It does not seem strange to me at all.
Statistics does not work in a country striving on fear.
There was time in Russia, when children thanked Stalin for happy childhood watching their parents being shot by government.
Majority of population supported Stalin creating the Evil Empire.
Putin is not as bad as Stalin, but.......
You can finish this thought for me.

Thank you.  Some people are so blind that they cannot see the obvious.
Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

Offline Anteros

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^It is common knowledge that Mikhail Khodorkovsky was put in prison on trumped up charges because he had the courage to offer the Russian people an alternative to Putin.  While democracy in the USA has peculiarities and is not perfect, at least we don't have a Dictator for life who puts political opponents in prison, or worse, such as the assassination of Boris Nemtsov.

You've got some nerve "wiz" to talk about posting propaganda and trolling.  :GRRRR:
Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.