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Author Topic: Great Patriotic War ( Velikaya Otechestvennaya Voyna)  (Read 4604 times)

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Offline Czenny

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Great Patriotic War ( Velikaya Otechestvennaya Voyna)
« on: April 29, 2016, 12:06:35 AM »
I have a friend in Yalta, Irina, who posted a photo yesterday:



Leningrad Ballet School in evacuation.
Fortitude of russian (in those time soviet women) is incredible.
Livet är fullt av ironier.

Online Maxx

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Re: Great Patriotic War ( Velikaya Otechestvennaya Voyna)
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2016, 03:34:22 AM »
I remember when I was doing all my travels to Saratov I had purchased a rather thick book in an airport lounge called "Stalingrad." In the book it mentioned that the Nazis feared this one Soviet women soldier the most. She led a platoon of other women soldiers that were known for their fierceness. Then I remembered a fact I read about women in combat. They take less prisoners than men. Then I tied this with poem I knew, Rudyard Kipling's  "The female of the species." I'll quote it for you Czenny.

Rudyard Kipling (1865-1936)
                           The Female of the Species

    WHEN the Himalayan peasant meets the he-bear in his pride,
    He shouts to scare the monster, who will often turn aside.
    But the she-bear thus accosted rends the peasant tooth and nail.
    For the female of the species is more deadly than the male.

    When Nag the basking cobra hears the careless foot of man,
    He will sometimes wriggle sideways and avoid it if he can.
    But his mate makes no such motion where she camps beside the trail.
    For the female of the species is more deadly than the male.

    When the early Jesuit fathers preached to Hurons and Choctaws,
    They prayed to be delivered from the vengeance of the squaws.
    'Twas the women, not the warriors, turned those stark enthusiasts pale.
    For the female of the species is more deadly than the male.

    Man's timid heart is bursting with the things he must not say,
    For the Woman that God gave him isn't his to give away;
    But when hunter meets with husbands, each confirms the other's tale—
    The female of the species is more deadly than the male.

    Man, a bear in most relations—worm and savage otherwise,—
    Man propounds negotiations, Man accepts the compromise.
    Very rarely will he squarely push the logic of a fact
    To its ultimate conclusion in unmitigated act.

    Fear, or foolishness, impels him, ere he lay the wicked low,
    To concede some form of trial even to his fiercest foe.
    Mirth obscene diverts his anger—Doubt and Pity oft perplex
    Him in dealing with an issue—to the scandal of The Sex!

    But the Woman that God gave him, every fibre of her frame
    Proves her launched for one sole issue, armed and engined for the same;
    And to serve that single issue, lest the generations fail,
    The female of the species must be deadlier than the male.

    She who faces Death by torture for each life beneath her breast
    May not deal in doubt or pity—must not swerve for fact or jest.
    These be purely male diversions—not in these her honour dwells—
    She the Other Law we live by, is that Law and nothing else.

    She can bring no more to living than the powers that make her great
    As the Mother of the Infant and the Mistress of the Mate.
    And when Babe and Man are lacking and she strides unclaimed to claim
    Her right as femme (and baron), her equipment is the same.

    She is wedded to convictions—in default of grosser ties;
    Her contentions are her children, Heaven help him who denies!—
    He will meet no suave discussion, but the instant, white-hot, wild,
    Wakened female of the species warring as for spouse and child.

    Unprovoked and awful charges—even so the she-bear fights,
    Speech that drips, corrodes, and poisons—even so the cobra bites,
    Scientific vivisection of one nerve till it is raw
    And the victim writhes in anguish—like the Jesuit with the squaw!

    So it comes that Man, the coward, when he gathers to confer
    With his fellow-braves in council, dare not leave a place for her
    Where, at war with Life and Conscience, he uplifts his erring hands
    To some God of Abstract Justice—which no woman understands.

    And Man knows it! Knows, moreover, that the Woman that God gave him
    Must command but may not govern—shall enthral but not enslave him.
    And She knows, because She warns him, and Her instincts never fail,
    That the Female of Her Species is more deadly than the Male.

Offline Czenny

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Re: Great Patriotic War ( Velikaya Otechestvennaya Voyna)
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2016, 07:42:56 AM »
Speaking of Kipling, I like this one:


“If…” by R. Kipling (1895)

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too:

If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or, being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise;

If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim,
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same:

If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools;

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings,
And never breathe a word about your loss:

If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!"

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much:

If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!






Livet är fullt av ironier.


Offline Czenny

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Re: Great Patriotic War ( Velikaya Otechestvennaya Voyna)
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2016, 07:50:16 AM »
I'm afraid
Quote
fierceness
of women as soldiers has nothing to do with photo above.
Tender women of Balet, who usually are on special diet show themselves in the photo as strong and devoted to their art, even in case of War.
Livet är fullt av ironier.

Online Ste

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Re: Great Patriotic War ( Velikaya Otechestvennaya Voyna)
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2016, 09:28:34 AM »
I wonder what Russian people think of this from UK perspective, for us the Second World War started in 1939 when Britain stood alone against the might of the Nazi War machine and took a hell of a bloody nose at first.

Could be argued that the Nazi Germany's first defeat was the Battle of Britain, 1940, when the RAF beat back the Luftwaffe, but every Russian person I spoke to about this doesn't seem aware.

I was asked in school in Chel, and I chose to discuss Douglas Bader, dunno why actually, just it seemed to them the war was 1942-1945...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Bader

During one visit to Munich, Germany, as a guest of Adolf Galland, he walked into a room full of ex-Luftwaffe pilots and said, "My God, I had no idea we left so many of you *snip*s alive".

Haha!
O pointy birds, o pointy pointy, Anoint my head, anointy-nointy.

Offline Steamer

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Re: Great Patriotic War ( Velikaya Otechestvennaya Voyna)
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2016, 10:37:04 AM »
To many Americans WW2 is thought of as a war that was long ago and far away. When traveling around Moscow and seeing the many memorials, parks and speaking with people I got the sense that they view WW2 as being right HERE and it was last week.
Life ain't nothing but a poker game
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But I've never seen a winner that didn't bet

Online Maxx

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Re: Great Patriotic War ( Velikaya Otechestvennaya Voyna)
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2016, 12:04:53 PM »
I'm afraid
Quote
fierceness
of women as soldiers has nothing to do with photo above.
Tender women of Balet, who usually are on special diet show themselves in the photo as strong and devoted to their art, even in case of War.

I meant Soviet women's qualities of strength and courage under difficult conditions. I have been gone all day exploring East of Tbilisi.

Offline Czenny

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Re: Great Patriotic War ( Velikaya Otechestvennaya Voyna)
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2016, 08:57:07 PM »
When traveling around Moscow and seeing the many memorials, parks and speaking with people I got the sense that they view WW2 as being right HERE and it was last week.

Yes. In Russia and Ukraine this war has been remembered again and again. We usually distinguish WW2 and Great Patriotic War in the sense that GRW was a part of WW2 .
It is just so.
It could be written pages and pages why it was and is so important to speak of that event for russians, but I think the best way to deal with peculiarities of another country is to respect them. It is in collective unconscious of former soviet people.

Especially when somebody meets a woman from FSU this question 100% will appear.  One should be wise and not touch traumatic fields of memory. One never knows what kind of reaction may be.

People have different points of views on various facts --it is axiom.
Livet är fullt av ironier.

Offline Czenny

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Re: Great Patriotic War ( Velikaya Otechestvennaya Voyna)
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2016, 08:58:03 PM »
I'm afraid
Quote
fierceness
of women as soldiers has nothing to do with photo above.
Tender women of Balet, who usually are on special diet show themselves in the photo as strong and devoted to their art, even in case of War.

I meant Soviet women's qualities of strength and courage under difficult conditions. I have been gone all day exploring East of Tbilisi.

OK.  :)
Livet är fullt av ironier.

Online msmoby

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Re: Great Patriotic War ( Velikaya Otechestvennaya Voyna)
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2016, 09:51:29 PM »
I wonder what Russian people think of this from UK perspective, for us the Second World War started in 1939 when Britain stood alone against the might of the Nazi War machine and took a hell of a bloody nose at first.

Could be argued that the Nazi Germany's first defeat was the Battle of Britain, 1940, when the RAF beat back the Luftwaffe, but every Russian person I spoke to about this doesn't seem aware.

I think you might find the Serbs will point out that they also contributed to the near month delay to Barbarosa and it's failure to get to Moscow - before the autumn rains

Offline Anteros

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Re: Great Patriotic War ( Velikaya Otechestvennaya Voyna)
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2016, 11:49:45 PM »
To many Americans WW2 is thought of as a war that was long ago and far away. When traveling around Moscow and seeing the many memorials, parks and speaking with people I got the sense that they view WW2 as being right HERE and it was last week.

Because Putin and other Russian elites use war remembrance as a way to detract from the poor economy and the corruption and greed of the ruling class.   :coffeeread:
Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

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Re: Great Patriotic War ( Velikaya Otechestvennaya Voyna)
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2016, 01:46:29 AM »
April is the cruelest month
Breeding . . .

I would look to the writing of J. Conrad, born in Ukraine for insight into the period before and after the Second World War. And there is K. Vonnegut who also in his way portrayed war and its victims.
“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

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Re: Great Patriotic War ( Velikaya Otechestvennaya Voyna)
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2016, 07:56:02 AM »
Because Putin and other Russian elites use war remembrance as a way to detract from the poor economy and the corruption and greed of the ruling class.   :coffeeread:

No doubt that politicians try to spin things to their favor but the average Ivan thinks more in terms of family lost and the destruction caused in the FSU.
Life ain't nothing but a poker game
And no two hands are quite the same
But I've never seen a winner that didn't bet

Offline Annushka

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Re: Great Patriotic War ( Velikaya Otechestvennaya Voyna)
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2016, 08:35:35 AM »
Because Putin and other Russian elites use war remembrance as a way to detract from the poor economy and the corruption and greed of the ruling class.   :coffeeread:

No doubt that politicians try to spin things to their favor but the average Ivan thinks more in terms of family lost and the destruction caused in the FSU.

Объясняю на пальцах: "Нет в России семьи такой, где б не памятен был свой герой..."

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf1ZYfZaNoc" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf1ZYfZaNoc</a>

Full version.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nt2fRbn11n0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nt2fRbn11n0</a>

Offline Anteros

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Re: Great Patriotic War ( Velikaya Otechestvennaya Voyna)
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2016, 08:45:36 AM »
Because Putin and other Russian elites use war remembrance as a way to detract from the poor economy and the corruption and greed of the ruling class.   :coffeeread:

No doubt that politicians try to spin things to their favor but the average Ivan thinks more in terms of family lost and the destruction caused in the FSU.

I respect the average Ivan and what they sacrificed very much.  Russia took a turn in the wrong direction.  Had Medvedev or another reformer been President I believe they would have made strides to improve their economy and manufacturing base, so that the average Ivan and his progeny would have a better future.  All the previous gains, for the most part, have been lost.  Russia's economy, for the most part still solely relies on oil and natural gas export.

Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.