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Author Topic: Americans and Canadians soon to need visas to go to the EU?  (Read 671 times)

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Online Maxx

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Americans and Canadians soon to need visas to go to the EU?
« on: April 07, 2016, 10:06:21 AM »

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/eu-may-require-visas-americans-canadians-eu-source-104932773.html

Online Steveboy

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Re: Americans and Canadians soon to need visas to go to the EU?
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2016, 10:09:39 AM »
I don't think that will be the case!! Cos in a few years who the f**** will want to visit any country in the EU ??

People will want to avoid the place like the plague  :sick0012:  other than Moby of course.. :ROFL:

Online B.B.

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Re: Americans and Canadians soon to need visas to go to the EU?
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2016, 11:29:17 AM »
A few thoughts.

First, the EU is perfectly entitled to set its own visa rules.

That said, Brussels sometimes loses the "big picture" amidst delusions of their own relevance.  How so, in this case?  Well, of the countries on whose behalf they are "offended" - Poland, Bulgaria and Croatia - none of them require visas of American tourists. So they obviously don't give a shit. 

Next, increasing the hassle factor for Americans would simply mean that more of us would take our filthy Yanqui dollars on holiday to Mexico and the Caribbean.  Someone may want to fill in the Eurocrats on something called "Math" and figure out what damage will be done to the EU economy as a result.  The US could retaliate, but I would hope we would not.

Most importantly, so long as we're discussing travel to Europe, they might be better off having a bit of a think about why they're letting so many Muzzies in, and the correlation between that and things going "KABOOOOOOM!!" and sidewalk cafes being shot up, and filmmakers being murdered, etc. 

Oh, and it wouldn't really be easily enforced.  To wit, the last time I flew into "Old Europe" other than transiting, was to Geneva.  Then I hopped in my buddy's car and we drove across the border into France, where there were no border controls, etc.  Now, could I, conceivably, be stopped by a Gendarme at some point?  Sure, but again, not likely.

B/B
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Offline Manny

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Re: Americans and Canadians soon to need visas to go to the EU?
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2016, 11:36:54 AM »
The article mentions the US "visa waiver" for Europeans, which is a misnomer. They charge you a hundred or so dollars and make you register before travel online. It is in fact a defacto visa rather than a visa waiver. You pays money to enter there and need permission in advance. For me, that is a visa.

We should reciprocate with something similar. We must pay to enter the US? OK, fine. Make USAians pay the same to enter the EU. Quid pro quo.

Online andrewfi

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Re: Americans and Canadians soon to need visas to go to the EU?
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2016, 11:46:08 AM »
When I wrote that visa waiver was a defacto visa I was shouted down. But the program most certainly acts as a visa regime.

There is every good reason why, for exactly the same reasons, the eu should operate a similar system.

Bear in mind that the UK already has a system of passenger notifications for all inward border crossings.We already do what the US does. We just don't charge for it, yet.

"For what else is the life of man but a kind of play in which men in various costumes perform until the director motions them offstage?" -Erasmus

Offline Dogsoldier

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Re: Americans and Canadians soon to need visas to go to the EU?
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2016, 11:51:26 AM »
When I wrote that visa waiver was a defacto visa I was shouted down. But the program most certainly acts as a visa regime.

There is every good reason why, for exactly the same reasons, the eu should operate a similar system.

Bear in mind that the UK already has a system of passenger notifications for all inward border crossings.We already do what the US does. We just don't charge for it, yet.
Would you elaborate on your perception of this? I don't think it's quite the same as the US.
All I know is that Moby knows nothing - Plato

Online andrewfi

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Re: Americans and Canadians soon to need visas to go to the EU?
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2016, 12:16:14 PM »
Before going to the US one has to notify the intent to travel, at which point one is given, or denied permission.

Before going to the UK one has to notify the intent to travel, those unwelcome are refused entry to the UK (or questioned on arrival at the border by prepared personnel).

The purpose is to enable the border agencies to know, in advance, who to allow in, or otherwise. Of course it is not exactly the same in implementation as the US, the purpose is the same. In both cases the motto could be 'forewarned is forearmed'.


"For what else is the life of man but a kind of play in which men in various costumes perform until the director motions them offstage?" -Erasmus

Online Steveboy

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Re: Americans and Canadians soon to need visas to go to the EU?
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2016, 01:17:29 PM »
 ??? ???I don't understand all of this? I thought the EU was an extension of the US so they wouldn't expect a visa to enter their own territory  :ROFL:

Offline Dogsoldier

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Re: Americans and Canadians soon to need visas to go to the EU?
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2016, 04:07:05 PM »
Before going to the US one has to notify the intent to travel, at which point one is given, or denied permission.

Before going to the UK one has to notify the intent to travel, those unwelcome are refused entry to the UK (or questioned on arrival at the border by prepared personnel).

The purpose is to enable the border agencies to know, in advance, who to allow in, or otherwise. Of course it is not exactly the same in implementation as the US, the purpose is the same. In both cases the motto could be 'forewarned is forearmed'.
I think you are confusing two issues.
One is ESTA,imposed by the U.S. which is the pre travel clearance for certain nationalitiesp in place of a visa.
The other is API, advanced passenger information, which the airlines have to collect and provide to the U.S. DHS. This is matched against watch lists and non desirables will not be permitted to travel.
The UK also operates API but not a system like ESTA.
All I know is that Moby knows nothing - Plato

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Offline Manny

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Re: Americans and Canadians soon to need visas to go to the EU?
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2016, 02:23:31 AM »
The article mentions the US "visa waiver" for Europeans, which is a misnomer. They charge you a hundred or so dollars ..


14 usd .. is not anything like 100 or so ... :coffeeread:

https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/esta/

and make you register before travel online.

When did you last fly  ? One has to do this when flying to most countries...before you can check -in / fly

Ok, so it's an admin charge for an extra layer of security ... but a visa it is not.....

Any way - I thought this article was quite good - at describing how we got in this potential mess.

It's all about the EU insisting all member states are treated the same ...

http://www.economist.com/blogs/gulliver/2016/04/barriers-entry?spc=scode&spv=xm&ah=9d7f7ab945510a56fa6d37c30b6f1709

Cyprus is a 'problem member' ...which is interesting  -seeing they've been in the EU 12 years...

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Re: Americans and Canadians soon to need visas to go to the EU?
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2016, 02:52:07 AM »
No, Dogsoldier, you see, there's the bureaucrat in you...

That's like saying read and blue are the same because they are both colours. ;)

The point is that the process used in the UK and the US serves the same basic function, both function as visas - because a visa is a document that gives the holder the ability to enter (or stay) in a country. It is the document that enables control in a paper based system.

What the UK and the US now have is an electronic system to do the same thing; to, in advance of arrival: notify the intent to enter the country (application for visa), enable the border security to deny access in advance, or at the point of entry. It is an electronic permission rather than paper.

Don't think like a paper pusher, look at what a thing does, what it is for. The only significant difference between the US Visa Waiver Program (combined with ESTA) and the UK Advance Notification is that one is not stopped until one hits the national border and that's due to EU law, not UK desire - The UK ran a scheme of 'pre-clearance' in the Czech Republic as a trial. Of course, the US system ALSO stops people at the border and denies entrance.

So, what's the difference between the two, in practice? ONLY that entry to the UK is not, at the moment, denied, until one is at the border. However the enter/deny/investigate choice may well have already been made before the traveler's arrival as it is with the US system.

"For what else is the life of man but a kind of play in which men in various costumes perform until the director motions them offstage?" -Erasmus

Online msmoby

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Re: Americans and Canadians soon to need visas to go to the EU?
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2016, 03:03:50 AM »
The UK ran a scheme of 'pre-clearance' in the Czech Republic as a trial. Of course, the US system ALSO stops people at the border and denies entrance.

So, what's the difference between the two, in practice? ONLY that entry to the UK is not, at the moment, denied, until one is at the border. However the enter/deny/investigate choice may well have already been made before the traveler's arrival as it is with the US system.

..and when you arrived at Dunkerque / Dunkirk - where was the 'border' - Was that not a form of 'pre-clearance' - as one certainly was not in the UK...

Not that voting to live the EU would probably mean the checking really would be back in blighty - thus saving the French a head-ache  :coffeeread:

Offline Dogsoldier

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Re: Americans and Canadians soon to need visas to go to the EU?
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2016, 03:14:11 AM »
No, Dogsoldier, you see, there's the bureaucrat in you...

That's like saying read and blue are the same because they are both colours. ;)

The point is that the process used in the UK and the US serves the same basic function, both function as visas - because a visa is a document that gives the holder the ability to enter (or stay) in a country. It is the document that enables control in a paper based system.

What the UK and the US now have is an electronic system to do the same thing; to, in advance of arrival: notify the intent to enter the country (application for visa), enable the border security to deny access in advance, or at the point of entry. It is an electronic permission rather than paper.

Don't think like a paper pusher, look at what a thing does, what it is for. The only significant difference between the US Visa Waiver Program (combined with ESTA) and the UK Advance Notification is that one is not stopped until one hits the national border and that's due to EU law, not UK desire - The UK ran a scheme of 'pre-clearance' in the Czech Republic as a trial. Of course, the US system ALSO stops people at the border and denies entrance.

So, what's the difference between the two, in practice? ONLY that entry to the UK is not, at the moment, denied, until one is at the border. However the enter/deny/investigate choice may well have already been made before the traveler's arrival as it is with the US system.
Well, I won't comment on what I think you are thinking like, but you are absolutely wrong.
API and ESTA are completely different animals.
You are trying to teach me to suck eggs here.
Carry on.  tiphat
All I know is that Moby knows nothing - Plato