AFA = Army-of-Brides?

[Maxx]

I noticed that the links to AFA on the right are identical in photographs and descriptions to those of 'Army-of-Brides'. A-of-B has a lot of 20 something supermodel types looking for men up to 75 to 80 years old. I know "pay per letter", "chat fees", "photos to be opened for a certain cost", "split fees to the women/interpreter" et cetera et cetera. But is AFA legit somehow since it is on this site?

[andrewfi]

You actually think these are real people wanting to talk to you? You poor man! 

These are advertisements designed to get you to open your wallet so, of course, many of the pics will be years old and be oonnected to no human being desirous of matrimony with you.

Legit? About as legit as those car ads that show MPG figures of 40mpg for petrol engine cars.

They might get 40mpg on the highway, on a long drive with a light foot and a light driver...
But they won't get what most people will think they read when they see the comparison to a hybrid's city figures.

[msmoby]

I noticed that the links to AFA on the right are identical in photographs and descriptions to those of 'Army-of-Brides'. A-of-B has a lot of 20 something supermodel types looking for men up to 75 to 80 years old. I know "pay per letter", "chat fees", "photos to be opened for a certain cost", "split fees to the women/interpreter" et cetera et cetera. But is AFA legit somehow since it is on this site?

Hi Maxx

I have no idea if it's the same lasses and I'm not going to look ..but I will try to answer your question - without sarcasm. I thought this site was to originally here to help others...

When I last looked - about 2 years ago - AFA didn't appear to be part of the same network as Army-of-Brides...which I have always regarded as a complete 'no no' when looking at dating sites


AFA has profiles of ladies I have met in real life...ladies within your target age range...but they are so often 10 year old photos - supplied by agencies back then.

I recommend that you look to the newer firms on the scene - where the ladies put up their own profiles...

EM is a shadow of it's former self and I found SC on mamba and dmnotity.com

Get yourself a yandex account and use their and google's image finder - if you see a lady you like...she may have  social media accounts using that photo. Those site tend to be more revealing than the dating sites.

Good luck

[Maxx]

You actually think these are real people wanting to talk to you? You poor man! 

These are advertisements designed to get you to open your wallet so, of course, many of the pics will be years old and be oonnected to no human being desirous of matrimony with you.

Legit? About as legit as those car ads that show MPG figures of 40mpg for petrol engine cars.

They might get 40mpg on the highway, on a long drive with a light foot and a light driver...
But they won't get what most people will think they read when they see the comparison to a hybrid's city figures.

A friend, someone who I've sat in his living room and we've talked has met a number of these women. He just got back from Ukraine a few days ago after meeting some of them. They are real just that there are scams going on all over the place. But not 100% of the time. He's gotten some admissions from an interpreter that she writes many (not all) of the letters coming from these gals. I'm just trying to pick the knat $hit out of the pepper I suppose.

[Steveboy]

Army of brides    Its just a site for sad losers who are so disillusioned with life..

Were just re building our Ukraine site , very nearly finished. Shortly there will be only one site on the net to meet REAL Ukrainian women.. No women under 26/7 so NO place for losers , NO models  so  NO place for dreamers.. 

The average age of women will be in their 40's. Cos thats the age of women in Ukraine who your most likely to find that is genuine.

Its going to be totally free for forum members.. you have my guarantee once signed up you will wonder how you never found the place before 

About 5 weeks were ready to roll it out. As I have said many times the Ukrainian brides industry is a complete pile of shit usually run by sharks..And although the business is on the way out there is still a good chance for genuine realistic guys to succeed in Ukraine. Everyone else is wasting their time..

[andrewfi]

Your friend isn't married though is he?

Maxx, you've read about Pareto, you know that the womenprofiles to which most guys write do not represent real women.

Just a few days ago you were going on about how you were not interested in a relationship with the kind of woman represented in these ads.

Look mate, there's you in Georgia, surrounded by loads of women. If you want one go and meet a few. There's no need to piss about in Loserville, you are where it really is, among real people with real lives.

Here's a suggestion for you:
Seek out an Irish bar, there will be at least one, there always is. Go in there a few nights, at different times. Buy drinks but don't go round making bezzy mates with everyone that you see, just keep your eyes open.

Here's what you will see: There will be a passel of English speaking foreign blokes. Quite a few will be about your age and some will look like they are fixtures. You will also see a few women, there's always women. They'll be local women and they will be friendly, chatting with the English speaking expats. They'll be the kind of age you are looking for and they'll be looking for a man. They probably won't be hookers - but some might be, depending upon the bar.

Chat to a few sort out some dates, be straight with them, buy a few drinks. You'll have fun and start to build a real network. In a few months you may well be seeing a woman seriously - and she probably won't be a woman you met in the Irish bar! She'll be a friend of a friend, a result of having built a little network.

One final thought: why on earth would a woman who is looking on a website to marry a foreign bloke be interested in exporting herself to Georgia to be with an American bloke? That's just not how the world works!

[Ste]

Your friend isn't married though is he?

Maxx, you've read about Pareto, you know that the womenprofiles to which most guys write do not represent real women.

Just a few days ago you were going on about how you were not interested in a relationship with the kind of woman represented in these ads.

Look mate, there's you in Georgia, surrounded by loads of women. If you want one go and meet a few. There's no need to piss about in Loserville, you are where it really is, among real people with real lives.

Here's a suggestion for you:
Seek out an Irish bar, there will be at least one, there always is. Go in there a few nights, at different times. Buy drinks but don't go round making bezzy mates with everyone that you see, just keep your eyes open.

Here's what you will see: There will be a passel of English speaking foreign blokes. Quite a few will be about your age and some will look like they are fixtures. You will also see a few women, there's always women. They'll be local women and they will be friendly, chatting with the English speaking expats. They'll be the kind of age you are looking for and they'll be looking for a man. They probably won't be hookers - but some might be, depending upon the bar.

Chat to a few sort out some dates, be straight with them, buy a few drinks. You'll have fun and start to build a real network. In a few months you may well be seeing a woman seriously - and she probably won't be a woman you met in the Irish bar! She'll be a friend of a friend, a result of having built a little network.

One final thought: why on earth would a woman who is looking on a website to marry a foreign bloke be interested in exporting herself to Georgia to be with an American bloke? That's just not how the world works!

I went into the British Queen pub in Moscow last June hoping to meet some Brits for a chat and some top bants, got there, not too far from Bolshoi, all staff with Union Jack tee-shirts, Brit this and that on the walls, BBC on the tellies, not one person in there spoke English or was English or British, not even the staff. You could tell they where embarrassed - was quite funny. Had Newcastle Brown Ale on draught which all my Geordie mates swear just doesn't happen....

Another time we went to this Irish Bar off Tverskaya, same, blokes sat around dressed as Leprechauns but no real Irish folks!

Works both ways though, I was in a bar in Hamburg, 'Frau Möller' - great place, bloke sat at bar next to me, ordered his beer in English, so I asked him, 'what part of Britain are you from then, mate?' - He said, I'm not British, I am Finnish.."

And then he started telling me he was on a round the World trip on cargo boats etc, nearly home, got his digital camera out, and started showing me his photos. Starting with '1 of 4295...'

Was a long night.....

[andrewfi]

There will be English speaking expats in one of 'em. Always is. It is what blokes do!

I don't think I have ever been to a place where there wasn't a 'Molly Malones' or similar cod Irish place where freshly minted expats rolled up in the certain knowledge that there'd be other Englishes around at some point. One of those places will have the long term expats, the ones with the red noses! It is a rule of nature!

The women will be there too and for all the normal reasons! The best bit about that is that the women will already have decided that they are OK with foreign blokes. Most women just are not bothered about meeting or having relationships with foreigner, it is too much hard work! One might at least start out with a market that has already decided it is open to one! Later it doesn't matter for the reasons I already gave.

Ste, you just were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[Steveboy]

I often go to an Irish bar here, haven't seen so many Brits there none I think, though in the summer there seems to be a few hanging about.
If I bumped into any Brits I would probably try to avoid them.. expats are usually boring and just sit complaining about how things don't work in Russia as well as they do back home.. I don't want to sit listening to that garbage 
The expats working for big corporations or banking or something like that are usually a bunch of twats any way often with their heads so far up their asses.. Another boring lot

[andrewfi]

I agree, I tend to avoid those places and those people. But the places do have a use, the use I specified upthread. They are a great place to find a willing market of buyers - women who are interested in foreign guys.

It isn't just English guys who go to these bars, but people who speak English, which is just about any solvent expat. The blokes meet other people in similar situations to themselves. Meet the women who meet those blokes and use them as the first level of your social network. It works.

Thing is that one has to make a conscious choice to build a network, it takes effort and time. If Maxx does as I suggested then he will not be dating women from 'Molly Malones' in three months time, but the friends of their friends. The ones who'd not ever meet Maxx if they were not introduced to him by their friends, and not just any friends, but their girlfriends. The last thing a bloke needs is a girlfriend referred to him by other blokes, right?

[Steveboy]

I agree, I tend to avoid those places and those people. But the places do have a use, the use I specified upthread. They are a great place to find a willing market of buyers - women who are interested in foreign guys.

It isn't just English guys who go to these bars, but people who speak English, which is just about any solvent expat. The blokes meet other people in similar situations to themselves. Meet the women who meet those blokes and use them as the first level of your social network. It works.

Thing is that one has to make a conscious choice to build a network, it takes effort and time. If Maxx does as I suggested then he will not be dating women from 'Molly Malones' in three months time, but the friends of their friends. The ones who'd not ever meet Maxx if they were not introduced to him by their friends, and not just any friends, but their girlfriends. The last thing a bloke needs is a girlfriend referred to him by other blokes, right?

Yes I agree and never let an expat help you out and more important stay well away from idiots who "Specialise " in helping expats.. It usually means they Specialise in robbing expats 

I think if your a pretty out going person its no big problem to go out for the night to a few bars and meet some women.. I used to do it on my jack jones many times. But I usually went after the dancers 

[Maxx]

You guys are assuming a lot of things about me. I just talked with my friend this morning and he told me about AFA being advertised on this site. He is following my Georgian thread. He said AFA is the same as Army of Brides and showed my some links proving it. I'm just wondering where the scam ends and where it is legit. I am assuming Manny would not accept advertising dollars from a pure scamming site. That in and out these agencies there is some real and sincere women and it isn't 100% black and dirty as Andrew and Steve say. I'm thinking the older women are quite a bit more legit than the young hotties. Remember they too can be taken in by the agency.

[Gipsy]

I agree, I tend to avoid those places and those people. But the places do have a use, the use I specified upthread. They are a great place to find a willing market of buyers - women who are interested in foreign guys.

It isn't just English guys who go to these bars, but people who speak English, which is just about any solvent expat. The blokes meet other people in similar situations to themselves. Meet the women who meet those blokes and use them as the first level of your social network. It works.

Thing is that one has to make a conscious choice to build a network, it takes effort and time. If Maxx does as I suggested then he will not be dating women from 'Molly Malones' in three months time, but the friends of their friends. The ones who'd not ever meet Maxx if they were not introduced to him by their friends, and not just any friends, but their girlfriends. The last thing a bloke needs is a girlfriend referred to him by other blokes, right?

Yes I agree and never let an expat help you out and more important stay well away from idiots who "Specialise " in helping expats.. It usually means they Specialise in robbing expats 

I think if your a pretty out going person its no big problem to go out for the night to a few bars and meet some women.. I used to do it on my jack jones many times. But I usually went after the dancers 

Aha, Pole dancers to dance on your pole methinks.....

[Manny]

You guys are assuming a lot of things about me. I just talked with my friend this morning and he told me about AFA being advertised on this site. He is following my Georgian thread. He said AFA is the same as Army of Brides and showed my some links proving it. I'm just wondering where the scam ends and where it is legit. I am assuming Manny would not accept advertising dollars from a pure scamming site. That in and out these agencies there is some real and sincere women and it isn't 100% black and dirty as Andrew and Steve say. I'm thinking the older women are quite a bit more legit than the young hotties. Remember they too can be taken in by the agency.

I am not aware AFA is Army of Brides. But 99% of this foreign bride lark is smoke and mirrors anyway whichever site you use. Real women can be found on the worst of sites and scammers on the best of sites.

As you are already in Georgia, why not ask one of your helpers to get you on the local sites? Women on foreign bride sites generally want to export themselves (if real), but you are a local resident and should be looking in different cupboards.

[msmoby]

There will be English speaking expats in one of 'em. Always is. It is what blokes do!

andrewfi... you clearly confuse Estonia for Russia proper..there is a British Pub and some Irish Bars in Sochi ..they are bereft of Brits / Irish people.. just like Ste's example..

Ste, you just were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I rather think, you don't get to Russia, much.... rather than our timing being 'wrong' ..

[andrewfi]

Maxx, no assumptions made. Only looking at what you are telling us.

So, why have you changed your mind?
Why are you now considering women (or at least pictures of women) that you already told us were of no interest to you?

Why are you looking in a marketplace where it is almost certain that, even if genuine, there would be no interest in leaving Russia or Ukraine to go live in Georgia?

What is going through your head?

I provided you with a strategy that works, that will enable you to meet proper women who are interested in meeting you and, possibly more importantly, will provide the basis of your social network for the months and years to come?

It really does not matter if AFA and Army of Brides are the same business (although, they certainly were not in the past). These are not the women for you. Look at the website, look at the search engine. The women that you told us you were seeking are confined to a single age category (40+) and all the 'real' action is with the younger, much younger women  - profiles that are almost certainly not genuine.

If meeting 'real' women is not possible for you then look at a local online dating site and work from that. Use Google Translate to do the heavy lifting. Don't waste your life on this silliness!

[Maxx]

You guys are assuming a lot of things about me. I just talked with my friend this morning and he told me about AFA being advertised on this site. He is following my Georgian thread. He said AFA is the same as Army of Brides and showed my some links proving it. I'm just wondering where the scam ends and where it is legit. I am assuming Manny would not accept advertising dollars from a pure scamming site. That in and out these agencies there is some real and sincere women and it isn't 100% black and dirty as Andrew and Steve say. I'm thinking the older women are quite a bit more legit than the young hotties. Remember they too can be taken in by the agency.

I am not aware AFA is Army of Brides. But 99% of this foreign bride lark is smoke and mirrors anyway whichever site you use. Real women can be found on the worst of sites and scammers on the best of sites.

As you are already in Georgia, why not ask one of your helpers to get you on the local sites? Women on foreign bride sites generally want to export themselves (if real), but you are a local resident and should be looking in different cupboards.

I'm not after any women right now. I got too much on my plate with my dentistry and getting myself into shape than to get distracted chasing after a woman.

I have looked into some of these MOB sites and noticed plenty of 40+ women on them. I know what the situation is with many of them. Lets say a 48 year old accountant with a grown child, miserable pay and no luck with Ukrainian men. She sees herself as stuck (Andrew might disagree). The cost of living is cheap over here and so is local airfare and travel. It is less than $200 RT from Tbilisi to Kiev and only a 2 hour flight. A couple months of savings would pay for RT tickets for two people to Ecuador. The ATMs pay in USD in that country and a nice modern house can be rented for $300-$400 a month. So winter for 3 months in Ecuador, travel about, see the beaches, the Andes Mountains and the Amazon but do it on the cheap. No 5 star hotels. Come back to the FSU, rent a decent place here or in Batumi or some other place that strikes our fancy. Or hell live at her place. I bet there would be thousands of women who jump at that chance to get out of Dumpsk. Stuff I'm kicking around.

Guys, I am not like you. I'm as free as a bird. I have zero debts. I've got tax free money coming into my bank account every month like clockwork. I have little need for luxury living. If I have my laptop and an internet connection I'm set. As far as women go I would NEVER import one into the West. Well, I shouldn't say never. No one can predict the future. Frankly I believe a much greater happier life can be had over here than in the West. You guys are in a miserable, expensive, stressful pot being slowly brought to a boil. Drag a women into that? Induct her into the American tax system? No thanks!

As far as what Steve said about his up coming agency. The same women from A-of-B, AFA or Aprettywoman could join his agency. So I agree with you Manny, good women can come from bad agencies and visa versa. Or I could hang out at an Irish pub as Andrew suggests and meet women that way. Again this is not a pressing issue for me right now. It was just that I talked with my friend that just returned from Ukraine and he showed me the identical webpages between A-of-B and AFA so I was curious what the tie is.

FYU the interpreters he used charged $20 an hour, charge a $50 introduction fee, eat like horses at the expensive restaurants with 4 course meals, order $50 bottles of wine and suggest cab fair for the lady. My friend said his date cost him about $250. He said if didn't go along with this he wouldn't be allowed access to the lady. The agency frightens the women that they should not meet alone with these men. He also said stay out of Odessa and Kiev because the prices are sky high there. BTW he dropped out of the agency. This whole business is a minefield to be sure. 

OK, I've provided all sorts of material to comment on.

[Anteros]

Maxx,
Most agencies share women's profiles.  Perhaps they sell them.  Or perhaps they get stolen.  It's Ukraine after all; what do you really expect?  The one women I went to see -- I met her on an agency which supposedly was not a great one.  She gave me her home address fairly fast and I went to see her.  She was decent woman but she needed to stay there, and at the time I needed to stay at my home in the US.

[B.B.]

FYU the interpreters he used charged $20 an hour, charge a $50 introduction fee, eat like horses at the expensive restaurants with 4 course meals, order $50 bottles of wine and suggest cab fair for the lady. My friend said his date cost him about $250. He said if didn't go along with this he wouldn't be allowed access to the lady. The agency frightens the women that they should not meet alone with these men. He also said stay out of Odessa and Kiev because the prices are sky high there. BTW he dropped out of the agency. This whole business is a minefield to be sure. 

OK, I've provided all sorts of material to comment on.

That sounds like a "local affiliate of A-web" scam that has been popping up of late, although I'm sure other agencies are capable of it also.  I posted about it back in January, after meeting a guy that this particular scam had happened to.

Here's the skinny: AWeb has a "Date a Lady" or "Date Me" service for guys who are really in the weeds.  There was a fee attached of ~$70, which included either an hour and a half or two hours of "interpreting services", which were required whether the woman spoke English or not.  The interpreter could then be retained for further time as necessary, of course, likely above market.

It's basically free money for the agency ($70 less what they pay the interpreter), so some local agencies try to enforce it on *every guy* who came through to meet a girl.  This is only relayed to the man once he has arrived in country, and what's he going to do?  As I said in my previous link the agency has dosed the girl up on evil spirits about how they will kick her out of the program, or that she shouldn't meet alone with the guy, and then they hold access to the girl hostage unless/until the guy pays, or threatens to complain to the Mother Ship convincingly enough to get the locals to back off.

B/B

[Maxx]

Maxx,
Most agencies share women's profiles.  Perhaps they sell them.  Or perhaps they get stolen.  It's Ukraine after all; what do you really expect?

That is probably it. However I have noticed not all women belong to both agencies.

[Maxx]

FYU the interpreters he used charged $20 an hour, charge a $50 introduction fee, eat like horses at the expensive restaurants with 4 course meals, order $50 bottles of wine and suggest cab fair for the lady. My friend said his date cost him about $250. He said if didn't go along with this he wouldn't be allowed access to the lady. The agency frightens the women that they should not meet alone with these men. He also said stay out of Odessa and Kiev because the prices are sky high there. BTW he dropped out of the agency. This whole business is a minefield to be sure. 

OK, I've provided all sorts of material to comment on.

That sounds like a "local affiliate of A-web" scam that has been popping up of late, although I'm sure other agencies are capable of it also.  I posted about it back in January, after meeting a guy that this particular scam had happened to.

Here's the skinny: AWeb has a "Date a Lady" or "Date Me" service for guys who are really in the weeds.  There was a fee attached of ~$70, which included either an hour and a half or two hours of "interpreting services", which were required whether the woman spoke English or not.  The interpreter could then be retained for further time as necessary, of course, likely above market.

It's basically free money for the agency ($70 less what they pay the interpreter), so some local agencies try to enforce it on *every guy* who came through to meet a girl.  This is only relayed to the man once he has arrived in country, and what's he going to do?  As I said in my previous link the agency has dosed the girl up on evil spirits about how they will kick her out of the program, or that she shouldn't meet alone with the guy, and then they hold access to the girl hostage unless/until the guy pays, or threatens to complain to the Mother Ship convincingly enough to get the locals to back off.

B/B

Yeah the sad thing is these women think the agency is just being nice and protecting them. They have no idea of the reality of things. I'm going read your link now. Interesting stuff!

[msmoby]

It's Ukraine after all; what do you really expect? 

I expect you have a short / selective memory about places in Russia that have / had dating women from those cities a 'bad name'...so I'm not really sure why you are singling out Ukraine.

Lugansk had a bad reputaion for 'scammers' but that is in 'novorossiya', now [sic]..

Needless to say, the twats who give such places a bad name don't do any favours to the ladies who live there......




.

[Manny]

The agency frightens the women that they should not meet alone with these men.

Or perhaps truthfully explains that many of them are unsocialised, greedy and unused to dealing with women and therefore lack the social filters one may reasonably expect. Left to their own devices, many men would be demanding women go dutch, pay their own cabs, etc. Quite right that women have someone in their corner who is more used to dealing with these blokes.

Additionally, agencies have to monetise what they do. Many men in this endeavour are obsessed with free everything and will avoid paying for anything if they can. Thus, money needs to be extracted from them at the point of meeting under whatever guise. People cant work for free.

Two sides to every coin.

[Manny]

Lugansk had a bad reputaion for 'scammers' but that is in 'novorossiya', now [sic]..

And it doesn't happen any more. 

I'm not really sure why you are singling out Ukraine.

Because its about the only place the MOB industry still exists in Europe.

[Anteros]

Maxx,
Most agencies share women's profiles.  Perhaps they sell them.  Or perhaps they get stolen.  It's Ukraine after all; what do you really expect?

That is probably it. However I have noticed not all women belong to both agencies.

Maxx,
If there's a woman who you really like, then you just have to "go for it" and go and meet her.  She could be a diamond, or she could be a scammer working for the agency.  Nothing ventured, nothing gained.