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Author Topic: Tipping - Pros and Cons to getting rid of it and going to a flat 18% surcharge  (Read 1939 times)

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Offline treadmilldude

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/02/18/i-dare-you-to-read-this-and-still-feel-ok-about-tipping-in-the-united-states/?wpisrc=nl_az_most

This was an interesting read. It seems this is an issue with the potential for a robust debate for either side.

One thing I do not like is that, as usual, this liberal publication (The Washington Post) just has to bring race into this. It is my sincerest wishes that someday, white liberals who hate themselves for being born white, will actually meet a normal, everyday Joe Blow white male, such as myself, spend a day with him, and realize that not every white male is a racist. It will probably be pretty enlightening for this white liberal to learn, for example, that I tip the same at restaurants, whether my waitress is white, black, or Hispanic. It makes no difference to me what color my waitress is, if she is lousy, I tip 15%, if she is very good I tip 25%.

Would quality of service improve or diminish if we abolished tipping and just added a flat 18% surcharge onto the cost of food at restaurants? I dunno, but it is interesting to debate it. (I also found interesting, from reading the comments section of the readers of the article, that British citizens are not automatically expected to tip in their country. As a result, when you vacation in France, there is a marked difference in the level of service French waiters and waitresses give to American tourists, who usually always tip, relative to the service they give to British tourists (at least according to that one commenter's experiences in French restaurants).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9FmOc0ofGc
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Offline Anteros

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If service is really lousy I might leave a buck so that they know damn well I was not happy.  Why would anyone tip 15% for lousy service?  Makes zero sense to me.   ???
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Online yankee

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If service is really lousy I might leave a buck so that they know damn well I was not happy.  Why would anyone tip 15% for lousy service?  Makes zero sense to me.   ???

You do realize that there base pay is very low?
What is worse than not being able to get what you don't even want?


Online Markje

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If service is really lousy I might leave a buck so that they know damn well I was not happy.  Why would anyone tip 15% for lousy service?  Makes zero sense to me.   ???

You do realize that there base pay is very low?
And? thats not our problem that their employer is a prick who doesn't pay normal wages.

It should be a good incentive to do better next time.

I usually tip 0 if service is bad enough.
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Online yankee

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If service is really lousy I might leave a buck so that they know damn well I was not happy.  Why would anyone tip 15% for lousy service?  Makes zero sense to me.   ???


You do realize that there base pay is very low?
And? thats not our problem that their employer is a prick who doesn't pay normal wages.

It should be a good incentive to do better next time.

I usually tip 0 if service is bad enough.
their very low pay it what most if not all waiters/waitress get paid by most if not all.

if the service is incredibly bad I would consider not paying tip. 
Question for you.  If the food is bad do you refuse to not pay?  Think about it.
What is worse than not being able to get what you don't even want?

Offline Gipsy

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If service is really lousy I might leave a buck so that they know damn well I was not happy.  Why would anyone tip 15% for lousy service?  Makes zero sense to me.   ???


You do realize that there base pay is very low?
And? thats not our problem that their employer is a prick who doesn't pay normal wages.

It should be a good incentive to do better next time.

I usually tip 0 if service is bad enough.
their very low pay it what most if not all waiters/waitress get paid by most if not all.

if the service is incredibly bad I would consider not paying tip. 
Question for you.  If the food is bad do you refuse to not pay?  Think about it.

I do not have a "leg to hump" in this argument, but,

If I go to a restaurant for a meal, I go for the meal, and NOT to give some service person a living wage.

If the food is Bad, I would, and have refused to pay, and will not set foot in such a place again, and will continue to do so..

The cost of the food should cover the overheads, salaries, materials and profits of the place.

In such places, I expect the highest standard of customer service.

I do not ever wish to be put into a position where I am obliged to give a "Tip".

If I do leave a tip, its because I wish to reward the service I received, nothing else, that's what tips are for.

If the mighty US of A is incapable of ensuring that workers receive adequate remuneration for their services, That is a truly sad affair...

Offline treadmilldude

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If service is really lousy I might leave a buck so that they know damn well I was not happy.  Why would anyone tip 15% for lousy service?  Makes zero sense to me.   ???

Because they are people, same as you and I, and just like you and I they have bills to pay, children to feed and clothe and take to the Doctor. It is not easy to live on a waitress's $2.13/hour sub-minimum wage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9FmOc0ofGc
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Offline Gipsy

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If service is really lousy I might leave a buck so that they know damn well I was not happy.  Why would anyone tip 15% for lousy service?  Makes zero sense to me.   ???

Because they are people, same as you and I, and just like you and I they have bills to pay, children to feed and clothe and take to the Doctor. It is not easy to live on a waitress's $2.13/hour sub-minimum wage.

Because they are people, they should be paid a Living wage by their employers, and not rely on handouts from customers, that's akin to being a beggar..

There is something seriously wrong with your country if you allow this situation to continue..

Online B.B.

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You do realize that there base pay is very low?

That would be an incentive not to suck.

When I go out I typically expect to tip 20%.  If service is exceptional that number will go up, and if it is poor, that number will go down.  Most waiters/bartenders understand the game, and behave accordingly.  Locally, I frequent places where I am a "known guy" and the staff understand that I reward proper service, do not create problems, etc. 

If the mighty US of A is incapable of ensuring that workers receive adequate remuneration for their services, That is a truly sad affair...

The difference b/w having a dynamic economy and a collection of sclerotic, socialist ones is that folks do not go into low-wage jobs with the intention of staying there for the rest of their careers.  Thus, food service, in its various forms, is often a transient field of work for folks here. 

You do have some folks who, for various reasons are "lifers" but those folks also tend to do very well, b/c they know their business.  Back in the 90s, I knew a guy who ran a fine dining place who told me his top waiter cleared $50K a year, which, at that time an place, was a shit-ton of money.  Guys who are pros do quite well here.

If service is really lousy I might leave a buck so that they know damn well I was not happy.  Why would anyone tip 15% for lousy service?  Makes zero sense to me.   ???

Because they are people, same as you and I, and just like you and I they have bills to pay, children to feed and clothe and take to the Doctor. It is not easy to live on a waitress's $2.13/hour sub-minimum wage.

Then clearly that waitress should either improve or she should find another field.  Why am I, as a customer, running a welfare program for people who suck at their jobs?

Because they are people, they should be paid a Living wage by their employers, and not rely on handouts from customers, that's akin to being a beggar..

There is something seriously wrong with your country if you allow this situation to continue..

People have what is known as "free choice".  People will often choose waitering because of low barriers to entry and the ability to do well, comparatively, based on their skill set.  There has been something of a movement to eliminate tipping here, but from what I understand, it's basically a wash for waitstaff and customers, but the kitchen help does a bit better.  I don't have a problem with it, either way.  Per Se has eliminated tipping and the guy who founded Shake Shack (as I understand it he also owns a number of sit-down/table service places) has also.  Whatever works best for people.

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Offline Manny

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Some old topics about tipping in the FSU:

http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/topic,10301.0.html

http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/topic,16332.0.html

The bottom line is, when in the FSU, Americans, please stop with the automatic heavy tipping.  :money:

Offline Manny

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Would quality of service improve or diminish if we abolished tipping and just added a flat 18% surcharge onto the cost of food at restaurants?

Some places here like to add a tip on the bill, I usually take it off unless really impressed - which is seldom.

As with any staff, if you remove the requirement to perform, and reward everything - including mediocrity and poor performance - the same, the incentive to do well is removed. The good service you enjoy in the US will plummet to European levels.

Offline treadmilldude

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I respect what you are saying Manny. But I also know waitresses in Ukraine make very little money, as I have skyped with a couple girls who are waitresses. I do not have Donald Trump's bank account, HAHA, but I am not poor either, I have worked hard in my life and I am, I guess you might say comfortable. When I go to Ukraine, even when I am with my lady, I will still tip generously (20-25%). I would feel pretty guilty if I did not. Those waitresses need the money a lot more than I need it. Leaving/not leaving a 25% tip is not going to make a difference between me being able to afford that month's car payment or not being able to afford it. But it could certainly be of benefit to a young Ukrainian waitress who needs to buy her Mom, who is on a pension of $60 per month, some medicine at the pharmacy because she is sick.

And I will not appreciate it if the Ukrainian girl I am courting gets upset with me for leaving a good tip....I will not appreciate it if she behaves the way Mendeleyev's Wife behaves when he tries to leave a good tip. I find it kind of hard to believe and insulting, just a little bit, that a Ukrainian woman thinks she has any right to get mad at a foreign man who has flown to visit her, and is kind enough to buy her a nice dinner and wants to leave their waitress a good tip. Makes no sense at all to me why the girl I am buying dinner for would get upset with me for tipping generously. That is one element of FSU womens' psyche I just accept I will probably never understand and probably do not even want to understand.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9FmOc0ofGc
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Online andrewfi

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That a job is not well paid does not mean that you should go round showering people with your money.

Pretty much anyone you come across in Ukraine is going to be paid, by your standards, very poorly.

Do you plan on tipping everyone you come across because they don't earn much? Of course not.

What is happening to you right now, in all probability, is that you are being set up as a mug. The poor, poor waitress who needs your help just to survive. Ah diddums, she! Next she will be telling you about how her granny has had a terrible car accident and needs help to pay the doctor and, in guilt, you will pay up.


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Offline treadmilldude

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Andrew, neither of the 2 girls I am communicating with right now are waitresses. I was referring to a couple girls I communicated with over a year ago.

I do not consider leaving a fair tip showering a woman with money. On the contrary, I consider it the humane thing to do. Karma...Good Kharma is never a bad thing.

"Ah, diddums she!". This is one of the things I enjoy most about this board. (smile) The idioms you British "Blokes" (before I came to RUA I had no idea what the term "bloke" meant, had never even heard the term used in my life) use often do not correlate at all with the idioms we "Yankees" from across the pond use. I have found myself quite a few times having to google idioms that the Brits here on RUA use, as I have no clue what some of them mean.

Speaking of American English idioms, I am enjoying teaching Alisa a fair amount of them whenever we skype. She enjoys learning them too, always has a smile on her face when I teach her a new one.  :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9FmOc0ofGc
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Online andrewfi

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OK, THEY won't ask you for money. However I hope that you get the point I am making about money and how to use it?

Simply put, tipping is a cultural thing, the rules vary according to the local market. In the US bar and restaurant staff do not get paid a living wage and tips are their remuneration.
Over here, in civilisation, even though in some places wages on the whole, are low, the wage is set with the expectation that staff members live off the money they earn. A tip is a gratuity, extra money, over and above the wage and is a reward for a job done to a higher standard than the expectation. CLICK HERE!

When people from over there come here and start splashing money around by tipping excessively, or where not required, they tend to alter expectations, particularly for other 'rich Americans' who may find themselves embarrassed when they try to follow local customs.

When you come over here you will find that there are some places where tipping is more customary, you will probably find a lot of your countrymen doing their very best to NOT fit in. Jobs in such places are very highly sought after but you won't necessarily get better service by frequenting them, you'll just pay more for whatever you do get.

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