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Poll

Should The United Kingdom stay in the EU or leave?

Yes- the UK should stay
No-the UK should leave
I don't know - I am an unthinking RUA member
I don't care - it makes little difference to me
I am Moby

Author Topic: Brexit  (Read 48173 times)

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Online Steveboy

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #2355 on: February 06, 2018, 05:56:09 AM »
Any way did they ever return all the Gold ??  ;D
I support no government anywhere, ever, never. No institution, No religion!!

Offline Ste

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #2356 on: February 06, 2018, 06:03:36 AM »
Any way did they ever return all the Gold ??  ;D

I suspect its in ‘neutral’ Switzerland bank vaults hence CH being one of the richest countrues in the World despite just making Cuckoo clocks. And predominately German-speaking...




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O pointy birds, o pointy pointy, Anoint my head, anointy-nointy.

Online Steveboy

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #2357 on: February 06, 2018, 06:40:53 AM »
Any way did they ever return all the Gold ??  ;D

I suspect its in ‘neutral’ Switzerland bank vaults hence CH being one of the richest countrues in the World despite just making Cuckoo clocks. And predominately German-speaking...




.

Ok thats the Swiss off my list then! Its just that the Nazis stole some of my relatives silver and never returned that! Im a Scorpio so do not forget things easy... :laugh:
I support no government anywhere, ever, never. No institution, No religion!!


Online Confederate

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #2358 on: February 06, 2018, 11:07:48 AM »
Should Britain return the Elgin Marbles? The Star of India?


.

NO of course not!!!! That was a long time ago!! Should Italy give back loot they stole in the Roman days! That was years ago when humans were not so civilised   :ROFL:

The Germans were incinerating people JUST a few years back! Supposed to be a  civilised world now..and it was only a FEW years ago their war debt was written off.

As far as I'm concerned there should be no Germany, the country should of been divided up and given to the neighbours ..


Using that logic there should be no Russia!

How many Millions did the Bolsheviks murder? 20 Million in 1917 and 1918 alone? 30 Million? 40 Million? 50 Million all together?


Online rosco

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #2359 on: February 07, 2018, 06:08:02 AM »
So there’s a cut off time for when it becomes acceptable?

As hard as it may be to understand, yes. The cut off time isn't definitive but you can apply a bit of common sense. Chasing down lost civilisations for plundered wealth isn't a good idea but seeking justice from a country or individual who's only a generation or so older than us, would work.

Let me flip it on its head Ste, are you suggesting its too difficult to use reasonable accountability so we should just let everyone off the hook, just because?

Offline Ste

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #2360 on: February 07, 2018, 06:30:40 AM »
So there’s a cut off time for when it becomes acceptable?

As hard as it may be to understand, yes. The cut off time isn't definitive but you can apply a bit of common sense. Chasing down lost civilisations for plundered wealth isn't a good idea but seeking justice from a country or individual who's only a generation or so older than us, would work.

Let me flip it on its head Ste, are you suggesting its too difficult to use reasonable accountability so we should just let everyone off the hook, just because?

Well no not really, i was just purporting the theory that maybe its not fair that people A should have their country divvied up because of the actions of political ideology B.

Its like when Blair apoligied for our part in slavery, its nothing to be proud of but i didnt do it.


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Online rosco

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #2361 on: February 07, 2018, 07:12:16 AM »
So there’s a cut off time for when it becomes acceptable?

As hard as it may be to understand, yes. The cut off time isn't definitive but you can apply a bit of common sense. Chasing down lost civilisations for plundered wealth isn't a good idea but seeking justice from a country or individual who's only a generation or so older than us, would work.

Let me flip it on its head Ste, are you suggesting its too difficult to use reasonable accountability so we should just let everyone off the hook, just because?

Well no not really, i was just purporting the theory that maybe its not fair that people A should have their country divvied up because of the actions of political ideology B.

Its like when Blair apoligied for our part in slavery, its nothing to be proud of but i didnt do it.


.

That I agree with but you and Steve were discussing the 'missing gold', not divvying up countries. You suggested Britain should then maybe give up The Elgin Marbles from the 1800 or The Star of India from the 1900. And then it started to all get silly.

Holding a nation or person to account financially, for what they did in the last 60 years isn't actually that difficult, if not for the white "we did bad stuff too....we'll actually the people who lived in my country many hundreds of years ago....guilt".

Lily Allan apologising on behalf of the UK to african economic migrants, Tony Blair for slavery and UK Fuzzy Leftists feeling arrogant enough to denounce Trump on behalf of a nation, just makes them arseholes.

Online msmoby

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #2362 on: February 08, 2018, 02:31:02 AM »
Constantly perplexed at why some folk think it's 'lefty' to appreciate the wrongs committed by our respective nations - esp. the colonial ones.

I don't feel 'guilt' - just an appreciation of how we might be regarded - by unthinking folks from those formerly shafted nations

Online Steveboy

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #2363 on: February 08, 2018, 10:52:22 AM »
Should Britain return the Elgin Marbles? The Star of India?


.

NO of course not!!!! That was a long time ago!! Should Italy give back loot they stole in the Roman days! That was years ago when humans were not so civilised   :ROFL:

The Germans were incinerating people JUST a few years back! Supposed to be a  civilised world now..and it was only a FEW years ago their war debt was written off.

As far as I'm concerned there should be no Germany, the country should of been divided up and given to the neighbours ..


Using that logic there should be no Russia!

How many Millions did the Bolsheviks murder? 20 Million in 1917 and 1918 alone? 30 Million? 40 Million? 50 Million all together?


And ?? Im a hypocrite ...  :laugh:




I support no government anywhere, ever, never. No institution, No religion!!

Online leslied

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #2364 on: March 03, 2018, 03:56:50 AM »
MODERATOR COMMENT

The arguments with MsMoby have been moved to a thread on the "Off Topic" board.

In future please keep this stuff off the public boards which can be seen by visitors.


Online Wiz

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #2365 on: March 06, 2018, 01:43:55 AM »
MODERATOR COMMENT

The arguments with MsMoby have been moved to a thread on the "Off Topic" board.

In future please keep this stuff off the public boards which can be seen by visitors.

The post I made yesterday was not an argument with Moby and was deleted...... :(

In actual fact was an article regarding some LEGAL comments regarding the rights of EU citizens in the UK, after Brexit.

I was only asking Moby to read it.......as it may help on his plans to bring SC to UK.

Never mind..... you know when you are not welcome...... ! tiphat
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Online Markje

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #2366 on: March 07, 2018, 01:27:00 AM »
It is good to remember the reasons behind Brexit:

A facebook post of myself in 2016.

why I want Netherlands to leave the EU:

- Throwing money away by the millions with the monthly relocation from/to brussels/strassbourgh
- Throwing money away by the millions by offering higher pay (mostly 100% higher) than anyone with the same job in a local setting. (IT contractors get payed double compared to IT contractors in businesses and triple compared to local-gov't IT)
- Throwing money away by the millions by sustaining failed economies
- Throwing money away by the millions by sustaining policies nobody wants.

And thats the economic side

Politically:
- Making rules and regulations that go far above and beyond local laws , even if local laws used to work better and had a positive impact for countries.
- No democracy, you can't vote for the people in power.
- No indirect Democracy. You can't vote for politicans of other countries, only your own.
- No 2nd indirect democracy. You even can't vote for most of the important bodies that create the laws & agreements.
- Politicans are too easily bribed in the EU by corporations (although they call it lobbying).
- Border control is a joke, it is open-season for any and all economic immigrants too.

Expansion:
- Nobody in the EU cares what people think, the politicans just keep adding countries the people wouldn't ever want in.
- Nobody in the EU cares for the consequences of uniting countries with vastly different norms and values, religions and social systems.
- Nobody in the EU stops to think what this unification will cost, not only in monetary terms, but also in political, social and other demographics.

I can think of a lot more, but these are the most important things why I would vote out of EU asap if NL gets a chance.
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Online rosco

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #2367 on: March 07, 2018, 02:05:48 AM »
This is both hilarious and damaging for the EU, at a key time in Brexit negotiations.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/928226/italian-election-5-star-movement-northern-league-eu-brexit

Italy’s new political parties have demanded the EU give the UK a fair deal. The obvious point being that the U.K. buys more than it sells and Italy risks losing out big time because of the EU wanting to punish the U.K. and stop further countries uprising.

Now we knew this was the case all along except fuzzy thinking lefties constantly tell us that the U.K. will be broken after Brexit, whilst the EU thrives. Instead people like Moby back an EU state who watches 900 people in Catalonia get violently attacked by the Spanish government having gone out on a Sunday morning to show an opinion.

They did nothing because the current Spanish government is pro EU. Yet they go after Hungary & Poland for challenging the madness.

Bring on the common sense, bring on reality & bring on more populist government!  :)

Online msmoby

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #2368 on: March 07, 2018, 02:39:14 AM »


Now we knew this was the case all along except fuzzy thinking lefties constantly tell us that the U.K. will be broken after Brexit, whilst the EU thrives. Instead people like Moby back an EU state who watches 900 people in Catalonia get violently attacked by the Spanish government having gone out on a Sunday morning to show an opinion.

The more observant poster would have noted I started a thread on the weakness of the EU re Catalonia and the heavy-handedness of Madrid !

Our Rosco, might try to convince himself that I think the EU is perfect - far from it ..   

On balance it's better to be in and influencing than out and being a mini player in a macro world


Online Markje

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #2369 on: March 07, 2018, 02:55:45 AM »

Bring on the common sense, bring on reality & bring on more populist government!  :)

I will quote a new and upcoming party (FVD) with how politics in NL nowadays works.

Radio-1 a mainstream-media state owned radio station wants a "debate" between D66 (currently in government) with the new FVD (2 seats in opposition, but growing fast). Apparently, they want a debate with them on the topic of "Discrimination" , because the FVD is apparently racist and discriminatory party.

Read the reply, which is spot-on.


Its google-translated from Dutch but still very readable:

Quote from: Thierry Baudet
"You are a thief!"

    'No that is not me'

"You are a thief!"

    'Again, I am not'.

"Thief! Thief! Thief!"

No matter how unfounded the accusation is, inevitably she quickly becomes stuck in the hearts and minds of the listeners. Doubt strikes. And then the headlines come: "The accused denies being a thief!" The talk shows organize discussion tables. "Is the accused a thief?" Opponents and opponents are invited. Because the truth - is it always in the middle?

After some time, the accused will, in any case, remain 'a mood'. A sense of 'where there is smoke is fire'. People will wonder where those accusations always come from. "That is not called just anyway?" In no time at all, one can plainly write that you have been "accused of being stolen several times" and that in any case you are 'not undisputed'.

Journalists wash their hands in innocence. They have only paid attention to 'current events'? The fact that they hardly focused on much more serious themes - the politics of a politician with Ukrainian oligarchs, a privately donated penthouse, failed policy in Amsterdam - nobody would deny it because there was less 'social commotion' about it (precisely because those journalists barely attention). This is how established parties and established media maintain each other.

It is a well-known strategy. Demonstration: such a stacking of unfounded accusations that someone is ultimately pushed out of order. Such a focus on certain issues - however small and insignificant they may be - that they will automatically hang large and threatening above the market. And then one can say with astonishment: 'Why is the accused so obsessed with the theme of theft? Why is he always starting to steal stuff? "(While you do not do that at all - you only defend yourself because others are constantly starting to talk about it!).

Smearing is being watched by the established players. It is a tried and tested recipe that only few political newcomers survive. And it is precisely this assassination - premeditated - that D66 leader Alexander Pechtold is trying to use in the wake of Minister Kajsa Ollongren at Forum for Democracy with his barrage of endless 'racism' accusations at my address.

We saw it in countless other democratic renewal movements. Who stands for controlled immigration, for the restoration of sovereignty, for the real influence of the population, is mocked by unsubstantiated allegations that ad nauseam are repeated and eagerly picked up in the mainstream media. 'Xenophobic', 'populist', 'racist', 'hate sower', 'discordant bringer', 'rat catcher': they are the same words that mean nothing but playing the underbelly of the audience - exactly the gut that these claiming self-proclaimed moral knights in such a way. Exactly the underbelly they want to tame with their 'reasonableness'.

And we are completely done with it.

We want to talk about the content of our plans. About the real problems that people in the Netherlands experience every day. The deteriorating education, the insecurity on the streets, the bureaucracy in healthcare. SMEs and freelancers who are being bothered by a rule-making government. The massive immigration from Islamic countries that has put our culture, our welfare state and our peace of mind under great pressure in recent decades. The European Union, which threatens our money, our freedom and our democracy.

We do not want anything to do with racism, discrimination and other forms of exclusion. On the contrary: we want to think together with as many supporters as possible about solutions to the problems we face. Everyone who wants to strengthen the Netherlands is welcome and everyone has exactly the same rights.

But apparently Pechtold does not want to have that conversation. Last Sunday at WNL he made it clear for the umpteenth time that he only wants to demonize. Want to sprinkle with cries. Use faint one liners to create an atmosphere.

Now Pechtold wants to discuss with Radio1 on the statement: 'For discrimination there is no place in our municipalities'. It is a statement that I fully agree with for the full hundred percent. A statement with which the FVD party program is in complete agreement. A statement that in no way invites a serious, substantive exchange of views, but is only meant to express all sorts of idiotic reproaches and suspicions up to the end of the quotes from years ago - to go back and forth with the accusatory finger cry: "You are a thief! A thief! A thief!'

I thank you for that. I grant Pechtold the full air time reserved for that 'debate' to spit out his hatred towards me and against FVD. The scornful, hand-wringing journalists should make whatever they want. But I will no longer participate. I am not going to keep pressing the suspect bench constantly and I am not going to give the media the chance to see 'noise' again and to shout loudly that 'Baudet has reacted strongly to accusations'. No. Once again - for the umpteenth time - we renounce all forms of racism and discrimination. There is nothing about this in our party program, nothing like that we have ever proposed in the Lower House, none of which we will ever defend.

We are always open to a substantive debate about our plans with the Netherlands. In the coming weeks, we will once again enter the halls with voters to discuss what else can and should be done. But against the hollow cries of Pechtold, the transparent demonization and, above all, the hate mongering towards myself and FVD, we are no longer going to defend ourselves endlessly. It is time that Alexander Pechtold comes to his senses. Until that time, having a 'debate' makes no sense.

Thierry Baudet
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