The World's #1 Russian, Ukrainian & Eastern European Discussion & Information Forum - RUA!

This Is the Premier Discussion Forum on the Net for Information and Discussion about Russia, Ukraine, Eastern Europe and the Former Soviet Union. Discuss Culture, Politics, Travelling, Language, International Relationships and More. Chat with Travellers, Locals, Residents and Expats. Ask and Answer Questions about Travel, Culture, Relationships, Applying for Visas, Translators, Interpreters, and More. Give Advice, Read Trip Reports, Share Experiences and Make Friends.

Author Topic: Will the Dutch crush Kiev's EU, dreams?  (Read 8436 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline msmoby

  • BANNED
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11242
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • BANNED
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Will the Dutch crush Kiev's EU, dreams?
« Reply #25 on: January 25, 2016, 02:27:17 AM »

And both of you are wrong.

Whereupon Markje tells us an 'interesting' conclusion to 'history'..



Crimea used to belong to Kievan Rus, the founder of both Ukraine and Russia, but they lost it after a huge war with the Mongolian Horde. (ooooh reallly) in the middle ages (around 1500).


Long before that it was part of the Byzantine Empire - hence some of the names in Crimea / Kherson and other areas of the Black Sea are Greek in origin.

Don't make the mistake of confusing the Rus part for Russian - as if you check - it is much closer to modern day Ukrainian than Russian

So you could say it was ALWAYS Russian starting back to the foundation of Russia/Ukraine.

You might - if you wish to warp history, to suit a point and the Ruthann and others in between - esp. the descendant of the Horde..The Tatars ...

So it was the Crimean Khanate (I.E. Tatars) who were the invaders, Russia stole it back from them in 1783.

Sighs, I knew you'd think the Rus part meant Russia  :dh:

Differences

1/ The British started the process LONG before the Russians - Ireland was not a nation - rather a collection of warring fiefdoms
Wrong again.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Ireland

''
The Irish Parliament was abolished from 1 January 1801 in the wake of the republican United Irishmen Rebellion and Ireland became an integral part of a new United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland under the provisions of the Acts of Union 1800.
this is later than Russia whom started to acquire Crimea again after having lost it to the Tatars/Mongols in 1500.''

Oh dear ... The 'danger' of a Dutchman trying to teach someone born on the island of Ireland 'history' .. :laugh:


''The history of Ireland from 1169–1536 covers the period from the arrival of the Cambro-Normans[1] to the reign of Henry VIII of England, who made himself King of Ireland. After the Norman invasions of 1169 and 1171, Ireland was under an alternating level of control from Norman lords and the King of England. Previously, Ireland had seen intermittent warfare between provincial kingdoms over the position of High King. This situation was transformed by intervention in these conflicts by Norman mercenaries and later the English crown. After their successful conquest of England, the Normans turned their attention to Ireland. Ireland was made a Lordship of the King of England and much of its land was seized by Norman barons''

Source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Ireland_(1169–1536)

Let's deal with your second attempt at an 'excuse'


Quote from: msmoby
2/ The Russians have signed TWO major treaties re who 'owns Crimea and broke them both

Now comes the deflection ..

If you count only the last 70 years or so, NATO signed numerous treaties supposedly to respect countries integrity and other major rights and broke them all on half the north-african continent + middle east. I think Russia took their example  :drunk:

example, please .... ? it's just that the last Soviet foreign minister - sadly no longer with us  - has put it in writing that no treaty was agreed re NATO expansion  ..NATO has over four years to go to it's 70th birthday..


And look how happy their citizens are, as opposed to Crimeans who are still happy about the outcome.

'funny' -  but did you notice there is a queue of nations who wish to join this 'unhappy' club  ?...Mostly due to the actions of the nation that moans about NATO expansion - whilst handing out Russian passports to areas it was mandated to 'peace-keep ' - not take sides / absorb the territory ..

Quote from: msmoby
Yes, Ireland is an Island and Crimea a peninsula - but from Russia  - one needs a ferry to get there and hence the necessity to build a long bridge link  - so, it is effectively an island.... :coffeeread:

Hair splitting, a peninsula is attached to land and an Island isn't. Crimea isn't an island and unless major earthquakes destroy its land bridge , it will never be.

Mark.

'hair-splitting, eh  ? ... Tell us how to access Crimea via land - without leaving Russian territory  ? [ question posed on 25/1/16 - in case the Kremlin decide to further redraw the frontiers of Ukraine....]



I have never claimed to be a Blue Beret

Spurious claims about 'seeing action' with the Blue Berets are debunked >here<

Here is my Russophobia/Kremlinphobia topic

Offline Gipsy

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2748
  • Country: 00
Re: Will the Dutch crush Kiev's EU, dreams?
« Reply #26 on: January 25, 2016, 05:03:55 AM »
Thanks for confirming that both N. Ireland and Crimea had populations planted and suffered ethnic cleansing
And both of you are wrong.

Crimea used to belong to Kievan Rus, the founder of both Ukraine and Russia, but they lost it after a huge war with the Mongolian Horde. (ooooh reallly) in the middle ages (around 1500).
So you could say it was ALWAYS Russian starting back to the foundation of Russia/Ukraine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Crimea
Quote
In the mid-10th century, the eastern area of Crimea was conquered by Prince Sviatoslav I of Kiev and became part of the Kievan Rus' principality of Tmutarakan. In 988, Prince Vladimir I of Kiev also captured the Byzantine town of Chersonesos (presently part of Sevastopol) where he later converted to Christianity. An impressive Russian Orthodox cathedral marks the location of this historic event.
Followed by later:
Quote
In the medieval period, it was acquired partly by Kievan Rus', but fell to the Mongol invasions as part of the Golden Horde. They were followed by the Crimean Khanate and the Ottoman Empire, which conquered the coastal areas as well, in the 15th to 18th centuries.
So it was the Crimean Khanate (I.E. Tatars) who were the invaders, Russia stole it back from them in 1783.

Differences

1/ The British started the process LONG before the Russians - Ireland was not a nation - rather a collection of warring fiefdoms
Wrong again.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Ireland

Quote
The Irish Parliament was abolished from 1 January 1801 in the wake of the republican United Irishmen Rebellion and Ireland became an integral part of a new United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland under the provisions of the Acts of Union 1800.
this is later than Russia whom started to acquire Crimea again after having lost it to the Tatars/Mongols in 1500.

Quote
2/ The Russians have signed TWO major treaties re who 'owns Crimea and broke them both
If you count only the last 70 years or so, NATO signed numerous treaties supposedly to respect countries integrity and other major rights and broke them all on half the north-african continent + middle east. I think Russia took their example  :drunk:

And look how happy their citizens are, as opposed to Crimeans who are still happy about the outcome.

Quote
Yes, Ireland is an Island and Crimea a peninsula - but from Russia  - one needs a ferry to get there and hence the necessity to build a long bridge link  - so, it is effectively an island.... :coffeeread:
Hair splitting, a peninsula is attached to land and an Island isn't. Crimea isn't an island and unless major earthquakes destroy its land bridge , it will never be.

Mark.

Unless the Ukrainian Tatars dig a channel, and put into it their Naval blockade.

 ;D

Bridge is a lot like sex, either you need a good partner, or a decent hand... Woody Allen

Online Markje

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8552
  • Country: nl
  • Gender: Male
  • MCMLXXIV
    • Mark's unix pages
  • Spouses Country: Crimea
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Will the Dutch crush Kiev's EU, dreams?
« Reply #27 on: January 25, 2016, 05:21:55 AM »
Unless the Ukrainian Tatars dig a channel, and put into it their Naval blockade.

 ;D

That would be a huge dig then :) How wide/deep would such a channel need to be before something is considered an 'island'
OO===[][]===OO
My first trip to my wife: To Evpatoria!
My road trip to Crimea: Roadtrip to Evpatoria


Offline Gipsy

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2748
  • Country: 00
Re: Will the Dutch crush Kiev's EU, dreams?
« Reply #28 on: January 25, 2016, 05:37:27 AM »
Unless the Ukrainian Tatars dig a channel, and put into it their Naval blockade.

 ;D

That would be a huge dig then :) How wide/deep would such a channel need to be before something is considered an 'island'

I really couldn't say.

Ask Moby, he seems to be the Ireland specialist, he certainly has the "Gift of the gab"..   :bow:
Bridge is a lot like sex, either you need a good partner, or a decent hand... Woody Allen

Online andrewfi

  • Supporting Member
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 20730
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Articles About Almost Anything!
Re: Will the Dutch crush Kiev's EU, dreams?
« Reply #29 on: January 25, 2016, 05:46:57 AM »
I doubt that was a serious suggestion. Ukraine can not afford to dig a ditch and string a fence at this time.
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

Offline Wiz

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5131
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Will the Dutch crush Kiev's EU, dreams?
« Reply #30 on: January 25, 2016, 05:50:15 AM »
Dear Wiz,

Thanks for confirming that both N. Ireland and Crimea had populations planted and suffered ethnic cleansing

Nobby

I have warned you NOT to twist my statements, as I have not said or confirmed anything about Crimea having Settlers planted like in N. Ireland!

In actual fact that is what I said: “Crimea and N. Ireland are NOT Similar cases,”

I will be very happy to give you a letter of introduction for the “Mental Hospital in Corfu,” because that is where you belong to, having escaped from the one in N. Ireland!

If you try again, a stupid trick like that, I will stop entertaining your insatiable appetite to prove that you are a Mental case and you are crying for help!

Markje

My comments about Crimea were referring to Modern History of Crimea but if you wish to go back to Antiquity, then you better copy the whole intro in Wikipedia.

Quote
from Wikipedia:

The recorded history of the Crimean Peninsula, historically known as Tauris or Tauric Chersonese(Χερσόνησος Ταυρική "Tauric Peninsula"), begins around the 5th century BC when several Greek colonies were established along its coast. The southern coast remained Greek in culture for almost two thousand years as part of the Roman Empire (47 BC -330 AD), and its successor states, the Byzantine Empire (330 AD - 1204 AD), the Empire of Trebizond (1204 AD - 1461 AD), and the independentPrincipality of Theodoro (ended 1475 AD)….. etc


The Modern History of Crimea begins with the annexation by the Russian Empire in 1783. In 1921 theCrimean Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic was created. This republic was dissolved in 1945, and the Crimea became an oblast first of the Russian SSR (1945-1954) and then the Ukrainian SSR (1954-1991). Since 1991 the territory was covered by the Autonomous Republic of Crimea and Sevastopol City within independent Ukraine. During the 2014 Crimean crisis, the peninsular was illegally occupied by Russian forces and (That is a lie) a referendum on whether to join Russia was held. The peninsula subsequently was annexed by theRussian Federation as two federal subjects—the Republic of Crimea and the federal city of Sevastopol.

 :coffeeread:


Why the sun does not shine on the Ex- British Empire Anymore? Because God never trusted an Englishman in the dark!

Offline yankee

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1547
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Married
Re: Will the Dutch crush Kiev's EU, dreams?
« Reply #31 on: January 25, 2016, 06:05:12 AM »
Unless the Ukrainian Tatars dig a channel, and put into it their Naval blockade.

 ;D

That would be a huge dig then :) How wide/deep would such a channel need to be before something is considered an 'island'

I have always wondered about the cape code land mass.  So ever since the cape code canal was built it is now an island?  Don't think so.
What is worse than not being able to get what you don't even want?

Online Markje

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8552
  • Country: nl
  • Gender: Male
  • MCMLXXIV
    • Mark's unix pages
  • Spouses Country: Crimea
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Will the Dutch crush Kiev's EU, dreams?
« Reply #32 on: January 25, 2016, 06:34:45 AM »
Markje

My comments about Crimea were referring to Modern History of Crimea but if you wish to go back to Antiquity, then you better copy the whole intro in Wikipedia.

 :coffeeread:
Sorry, I don't go back further than 10 Generations of us Humans. Otherwise the wars of who did what will never end  :-X
OO===[][]===OO
My first trip to my wife: To Evpatoria!
My road trip to Crimea: Roadtrip to Evpatoria

Offline Tom Cat

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5383
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Just Looking
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Will the Dutch crush Kiev's EU, dreams?
« Reply #33 on: January 27, 2016, 09:43:47 AM »
Don't shoot the messenger, links to articles posted, don't necessarily reflect my personal opinion.

Offline Gipsy

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2748
  • Country: 00
Bridge is a lot like sex, either you need a good partner, or a decent hand... Woody Allen

Offline Anteros

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7186
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Just Looking
  • Trips: 1-5
Re: Will the Dutch crush Kiev's EU, dreams?
« Reply #35 on: January 27, 2016, 11:34:35 AM »
Dear Wiz,

Thanks for confirming that both N. Ireland and Crimea had populations planted and suffered ethnic cleansing

The Modern History of Crimea begins with the annexation by the Russian Empire in 1783. In 1921 theCrimean Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic was created. This republic was dissolved in 1945, and the Crimea became an oblast first of the Russian SSR (1945-1954) and then the Ukrainian SSR (1954-1991). Since 1991 the territory was covered by the Autonomous Republic of Crimea and Sevastopol City within independent Ukraine. During the 2014 Crimean crisis, the peninsular was illegally occupied by Russian forces and (That is a lie) a referendum on whether to join Russia was held. The peninsula subsequently was annexed by theRussian Federation as two federal subjects—the Republic of Crimea and the federal city of Sevastopol.

 :coffeeread:

It's a lie that Crimea was illegally occupied by Russian forces, or it's a lie that the peninsula was subsequently annexed by the Russian Federation?

 :popcorn:
Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

Online andrewfi

  • Supporting Member
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 20730
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Articles About Almost Anything!
Re: Will the Dutch crush Kiev's EU, dreams?
« Reply #36 on: January 27, 2016, 02:02:20 PM »
Yu duzzint reed to gud, eh Ant?  :'(

Try sounding out the words one syllable at a time.
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

Offline Wiz

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5131
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Will the Dutch crush Kiev's EU, dreams?
« Reply #37 on: January 27, 2016, 05:39:55 PM »
Dear Wiz,

Thanks for confirming that both N. Ireland and Crimea had populations planted and suffered ethnic cleansing

The Modern History of Crimea begins with the annexation by the Russian Empire in 1783. In 1921 theCrimean Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic was created. This republic was dissolved in 1945, and the Crimea became an oblast first of the Russian SSR (1945-1954) and then the Ukrainian SSR (1954-1991). Since 1991 the territory was covered by the Autonomous Republic of Crimea and Sevastopol City within independent Ukraine. During the 2014 Crimean crisis, the peninsular was illegally occupied by Russian forces and (That is a lie) a referendum on whether to join Russia was held. The peninsula subsequently was annexed by theRussian Federation as two federal subjects—the Republic of Crimea and the federal city of Sevastopol.

 :coffeeread:

It's a lie that Crimea was illegally occupied by Russian forces, or it's a lie that the peninsula was subsequently annexed by the Russian Federation?

 :popcorn:

As it happens, you are incapable to read plain English and continue making stupid comments, I suggest you read this article from the Zionist run BBC, learn something and shut up with the LIES and the American BS.

Why is Crimea so important?

"The majority of Crimea's 2.3 million population identify themselves as ethnic Russians and speak Russian - a legacy of Russia's 200-year involvement in the region.

Russia's Black Sea Fleet has its historic base in the Crimean coastal city of Sevastopol - a continuing source of tension. After Ukraine gained independence, a leasing agreement was drawn up to allow the fleet to continue operating from there.

In 2010, this lease was extended to 2042 in exchange for Russia supplying discounted natural gas
."




This clarify your BS that the Russian Army illegally occupied Crimea.

Whatever your propaganda will spin out against Russia and Putin, the fact remains that he stuck up your President's back side a huge rocket.... and it hurts him like hell!

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Why the sun does not shine on the Ex- British Empire Anymore? Because God never trusted an Englishman in the dark!

Offline Anteros

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7186
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Just Looking
  • Trips: 1-5
Re: Will the Dutch crush Kiev's EU, dreams?
« Reply #38 on: January 27, 2016, 06:34:03 PM »
Dear Wiz,

Thanks for confirming that both N. Ireland and Crimea had populations planted and suffered ethnic cleansing

The Modern History of Crimea begins with the annexation by the Russian Empire in 1783. In 1921 theCrimean Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic was created. This republic was dissolved in 1945, and the Crimea became an oblast first of the Russian SSR (1945-1954) and then the Ukrainian SSR (1954-1991). Since 1991 the territory was covered by the Autonomous Republic of Crimea and Sevastopol City within independent Ukraine. During the 2014 Crimean crisis, the peninsular was illegally occupied by Russian forces and (That is a lie) a referendum on whether to join Russia was held. The peninsula subsequently was annexed by theRussian Federation as two federal subjects—the Republic of Crimea and the federal city of Sevastopol.

 :coffeeread:

It's a lie that Crimea was illegally occupied by Russian forces, or it's a lie that the peninsula was subsequently annexed by the Russian Federation?

 :popcorn:

....I suggest you read this article from the Zionist run BBC, learn something and shut up with the LIES and the American BS.


Here's something your feeble mind will likely latch on to, you old geriatric windbag.


http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/27/middleeast/israel-vulture-lebanon-spy/index.html
Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

Online Markje

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8552
  • Country: nl
  • Gender: Male
  • MCMLXXIV
    • Mark's unix pages
  • Spouses Country: Crimea
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Will the Dutch crush Kiev's EU, dreams?
« Reply #39 on: January 28, 2016, 01:40:49 AM »
It's a lie that Crimea was illegally occupied by Russian forces, or it's a lie that the peninsula was subsequently annexed by the Russian Federation?

 :popcorn:
The first is a lie, the second depends on how you define the word "annexed".

By pure definition it is normal and true:

(dictionary.com , annexed)

to incorporate (territory) into the domain of a city, country, or state:

If you however mean illegally , by force or other such terms ,thats a lie too.
OO===[][]===OO
My first trip to my wife: To Evpatoria!
My road trip to Crimea: Roadtrip to Evpatoria

Offline Wiz

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5131
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Will the Dutch crush Kiev's EU, dreams?
« Reply #40 on: January 28, 2016, 06:08:39 AM »
Mark

I think it’s about time not to entertain the “members of the Zionist infantile intellectual school reserve team”, by replying to them, for such important subjects.

Looking at his public Avatar stating, “Just looking” it’s enough to understand that they are “Zionist infantile Trolls” in an organised mission to disrupt and derail all serious conversations and I wonder why the Moderates do not take a more serious approach to their ”personal rude remarks” who target, us, we take part in all our serious conversations.

So from now on I will ignore all the comments of the “members of the Zionist infantile intellectual school reserve team”.

I hope the admin read our comments.
Why the sun does not shine on the Ex- British Empire Anymore? Because God never trusted an Englishman in the dark!

Offline Tom Cat

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5383
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Just Looking
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Will the Dutch crush Kiev's EU, dreams?
« Reply #41 on: April 01, 2016, 10:13:07 AM »
Dutch referendum on Vladimir Putin

Russia looms large in the coming vote on EU-Ukraine agreement.http://www.politico.eu/article/dutch-referendum-vladimir-putin-geenpeil-ukraine-accession-russia-netherlands/
Don't shoot the messenger, links to articles posted, don't necessarily reflect my personal opinion.

Offline Wiz

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5131
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Will the Dutch crush Kiev's EU, dreams?
« Reply #42 on: April 02, 2016, 01:35:29 AM »
Total Dutch and EU hypocrisy!

From the link posted by Tom Cat
Quote
“If there is a valid vote against the treaty, the Dutch parliament said it would accept the verdict, while the government has only said it will “reconsider” the treaty. It may ask for an opt-out, as 27 out of 28 member countries have ratified the agreement, which has also received the backing of the Dutch parliament. No one expects the referendum to scrap the treaty, which has been provisionally in force since the beginning of the year.

The political impact would be greater. For the Dutch government, currently holding the rotating EU presidency, a No vote would be an embarrassment and an unwanted problem to solve in a period of multiple crises.

European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker said in early January that Russia would “pick the fruits of an easy victory,” if the association agreement is rejected.

The kiev government is dominated by the Right Sektor (neo-Nazis),  American stooges and Poroshenko is a vicious genocide criminal.

Every prominent Ukrainian politician is a gangster, bent on looting Ukraine and stashing their funds in offshore banks. Neither the U.S., who created the current mess, nor the EU, nor the Ukrainian leaders themselves care in the least about the fate of ordinary Ukrainians. While the neo-Cons in Washington DC are busy attacking and blaming Putin (for everything), for a disaster Washington itself created, the truth is that Washington has the blood of the Ukrainian people, over 7000 innocent civilians were killed, on its hands.

The European parliament president, Martin Schulz, a fascist, claims that “the EU is in an ideological battle between two worlds – one based on democracy, human rights and the rule of law, and the other on fear, intimidation and oppression". The evidence suggests that the EU is on the side of fear, intimidation and oppression and against democracy, human rights and the rule of law in Ukraine.


All member states in the EU have lost their National Sovereignty and are governed by an unelected corrupt junta in Brussels, lead by Germany, which follows the orders of the Washington’s Neocons fascists.

1.The EU backed the coup against a democratically elected government and the overthrow of Ukraine's constitutional order. That is the opposite of the rule of law and democracy.

2. The EU supported the use of the Ukrainian army and nationalist thugs in the National Guard to crush opposition to the coup by using heavy weapons against civilians. That is the use of fear, intimidation and oppression.

3. The EU has supported war crimes and large scale human right violations that have caused nearly a million refugees to flee into Russia.


During the Cold War you could tell who was really using fear, intimidation and oppression by the direction of the flow of refugees. The fact that the refugees are fleeing from the people the EU is supporting is strong evidence that the EU's real motives are not what Mr. Schulz is claiming.



This is a sordid US geopolitical battle with Russia rather than an ideological one.
We are back to the old 19th-century stance.
Russia's to be kept weak, poor, and if possible, eventually colonised.

 
Why the sun does not shine on the Ex- British Empire Anymore? Because God never trusted an Englishman in the dark!

Offline Tom Cat

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5383
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Just Looking
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Will the Dutch crush Kiev's EU, dreams?
« Reply #43 on: April 02, 2016, 11:05:59 AM »

5 EU states block Ukraine’s membership prospects – report

https://www.rt.com/news/338095-eu-oppose-ukraine-membership/
Don't shoot the messenger, links to articles posted, don't necessarily reflect my personal opinion.

Online Markje

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8552
  • Country: nl
  • Gender: Male
  • MCMLXXIV
    • Mark's unix pages
  • Spouses Country: Crimea
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Will the Dutch crush Kiev's EU, dreams?
« Reply #44 on: April 03, 2016, 02:57:25 AM »
Feeling depressed after reading this:

http://www.geenstijl.nl/mt/archieven/2016/04/toedeledokoshenko___93_miljard.html#more

And still people want to vote yes.
OO===[][]===OO
My first trip to my wife: To Evpatoria!
My road trip to Crimea: Roadtrip to Evpatoria

Offline msmoby

  • BANNED
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11242
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • BANNED
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Will the Dutch crush Kiev's EU, dreams?
« Reply #45 on: April 03, 2016, 03:39:43 AM »
Feeling depressed after reading this:

http://www.geenstijl.nl/mt/archieven/2016/04/toedeledokoshenko___93_miljard.html#more

And still people want to vote yes.

Never though UA stood a chance of joining in the near future...but it is mildly amusing - an instructive -  to see the Kremlin backed media's stance - just like they wanted the Scots to vote yes to leaving the UK...PETULANCE
I have never claimed to be a Blue Beret

Spurious claims about 'seeing action' with the Blue Berets are debunked >here<

Here is my Russophobia/Kremlinphobia topic

Online Markje

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8552
  • Country: nl
  • Gender: Male
  • MCMLXXIV
    • Mark's unix pages
  • Spouses Country: Crimea
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Will the Dutch crush Kiev's EU, dreams?
« Reply #46 on: April 05, 2016, 03:42:35 AM »
So, I am afraid we no longer live in a Democracy.

* Voting ballots have not been sent out, at least 40.000 voters have reported to newspapers they have not been sent their voting ballot. How many did not report, one wonders.
* Introductory letters accompanying the voting ballots took a strong pretext to vote 'yes' instead of a neutral stance as is common.
* Some voting ballot instructions would lead to an 'invalid' vote, meaning you didnt vote at all. Questions again being asked by concerned press are being ignored.
* The government made sure that some people (elderly 65+ without cars living in rural villages) have to travel more than 10 miles to reach a voting station, of course this fact had not been shared with them. Newspaper shock/blog geenstijl already promised bus-service from and to this villages voting station as previous turnouts used to be 92% in this voting district when the booth was present nearby, no matter how insignificant the vote was. (they even turned up en masse to vote for some local water-station).
* The government says that voting "yes" means voting against putin as their strongest argument (really?) and that voting no means you believe the putin-lies. (really now).
* the blog Geenstijl also asked the OSCE to monitor the voting process. First they said the request had to come through official channels. Geenstijl arranged that by means of using an opposition-chamber minister, and then they said they were too busy after discussion with DutchGov. (riiiight).
* The government lies about the content of this agreement (it does contain provisions of military , financial and other aid whilst gov't denies it).
* The government interviewed by press, apparently never even read the agreement, because they stare blandly into space when confronted about its content,  but still votes 'yes' because it must be a good idea.
* They hire Ukrainian known people in Netherlands to campaign for yes, whilst most common people see through that easily (Klitschko, koblenko, etc.).

And I duly wonder , if we do vote no and 30% is made, will they change the vote to 'yes' as is common in some corrupt regimes. Or will they come out and say it was no, but we're going to ignore it cause its only an advisory referendum and non-binding.

Though it was cool to see nigel talk in Volendam about this referendum. (action starts at 1 hr 29 min):

Mark.
OO===[][]===OO
My first trip to my wife: To Evpatoria!
My road trip to Crimea: Roadtrip to Evpatoria

Online andrewfi

  • Supporting Member
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 20730
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Articles About Almost Anything!
Re: Will the Dutch crush Kiev's EU, dreams?
« Reply #47 on: April 05, 2016, 05:50:02 AM »
So, I am afraid we no longer live in a Democracy.

Sweet man! You really thought that we (you) lived in a democracy?  :biggrin:
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

Online Markje

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8552
  • Country: nl
  • Gender: Male
  • MCMLXXIV
    • Mark's unix pages
  • Spouses Country: Crimea
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Will the Dutch crush Kiev's EU, dreams?
« Reply #48 on: April 05, 2016, 05:57:30 AM »
So, I am afraid we no longer live in a Democracy.

Sweet man! You really thought that we (you) lived in a democracy?  :biggrin:

I had my hopes, but after the Crimean Referendum , that hope was reduced tenfold!
OO===[][]===OO
My first trip to my wife: To Evpatoria!
My road trip to Crimea: Roadtrip to Evpatoria

Offline Wiz

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5131
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Will the Dutch crush Kiev's EU, dreams?
« Reply #49 on: April 05, 2016, 09:06:33 AM »
So, I am afraid we no longer live in a Democracy.
.................
And I duly wonder , if we do vote no and 30% is made, will they change the vote to 'yes' as is common in some corrupt regimes. Or will they come out and say it was no, but we're going to ignore it cause its only an advisory referendum and non-binding.


Though it was cool to see nigel talk in Volendam about this referendum. (action starts at 1 hr 29 min):

Mark.

Welocome to the club of countries with corrupt and undemocratice Governments.

Reading your long list of comments, against the actions of your Government I undertsand you feel gutted.

Not one of the best performans of Nigel but he brought home the reasons why the EU is not what they have promised to us and as I said many times over it's becoming a dictatorship led by a German Nazi regime, using not guns but financial measures to enslave the whole continent to the American corporations, by signing the TTIP. When it's signed this agreement by the EU 450 million people of Europe, will be enslaved.

It is obvious if you vote NO tommorrow, your government will ignore it, like the Greek one did, when 62 % voted "NO" but they changed to "Yes". See the results of that decision.

Why the sun does not shine on the Ex- British Empire Anymore? Because God never trusted an Englishman in the dark!