Ethical Fur. Where to Buy? Canada?

[Manny]

So wifey is thinking about a new fur coat.

As the learned will know, Russians often travel to places like Greece to buy fur cheaper than it is in Russia. But much of it comes in from China and other places where animal welfare is hardly top notch.

If someone wants to wear fur (and I am not interested in half-arsed arguments from two-faced 'anti fur' people who eat meat and wear leather shoes here - so don't bother) but they would like to know it was produced in a reasonably ethical manner, where does one buy it?

My wife suggested Canada, as it is cold there, so people [she assumes] must wear fur there. And as a country that probably has more stringent animal welfare rules than Greece, China or Russia, she may have a point if that is the case. As we have many Canadians here, I reckon they are the folks to ask this.

But I put the question out generally too: one can buy fur of unknown or dubious origin in many places. But if one wants to buy it from somewhere it is produced ethically, perhaps with some kind of certification to back that up, and not in US Dollars, where is that?

[andrewfi]

You got something against US dollars?  You're de-dollarising?

[TomT]

 I doubt that you will find a furrier that anesthetizes the animals before they are skinned alive. It's like trying to find some non-alcoholic cognac.

[Annushka]

So wifey is thinking about a new fur coat.

As the learned will know, Russians often travel to places like Greece to buy fur cheaper than it is in Russia. But much of it comes in from China and other places where animal welfare is hardly top notch.

If someone wants to wear fur (and I am not interested in half-arsed arguments from two-faced 'anti fur' people who eat meat and wear leather shoes here - so don't bother) but they would like to know it was produced in a reasonably ethical manner, where does one buy it?

My wife suggested Canada, as it is cold there, so people [she assumes] must wear fur there. And as a country that probably has more stringent animal welfare rules than Greece, China or Russia, she may have a point if that is the case. As we have many Canadians here, I reckon they are the folks to ask this.

But I put the question out generally too: one can buy fur of unknown or dubious origin in many places. But if one wants to buy it from somewhere it is produced ethically, perhaps with some kind of certification to back that up, and not in US Dollars, where is that?

Hi, Стюарт! I'm sorry, I did not improve my English, so I am available in Russian. I very much hope that your little child will make the correct translation.

Снова вас вводят в заблуждение. Греция - это пережиток прошлого века! Я носила в свое время греческие шубки. Последняя была из норки: кожа порвалась, некачественная выделка. Так как я живу на юге России, и у нас на Новый год преобладает дождь, а не снег. Я с моим мировоззрением решила просто эту проблему. Я перешла на кожаные изделия из Турции. Это была главная причина, почему я туда поехала на отдых. Я смоталась в Турцию и приобрела кожаные изделия по смешной цене. ДУБЛЕНКА!!!Россияне покупают шикарные и качественные меха в ПЯТИГОРСКЕ!!!
Отличная меховая фабрика, в соответствии с ГОСТами!!!
Я даже привозила подруге визитки. Извини, позже сделаю сканер (внуки атаковали ( а почему не мужчины?))) без проблем, я сканер вновь подключила к компьютеру) и будут реальные координаты от изготовителя!!!

[Maxx]

http://www.furhatworld.com  is a Canadian outfit.

[Donhollio]

As we have many Canadians here, I reckon they are the folks to ask this.

But I put the question out generally too: one can buy fur of unknown or dubious origin in many places. But if one wants to buy it from somewhere it is produced ethically, perhaps with some kind of certification to back that up, and not in US Dollars, where is that?

http://www.beautifullycanadian.com/art_of_fur_video.aspx

 Back in the early 90's a friends uncle was a mink rancher. His business was on the rocks and in fact was one of only a few left in the province I was told. With the fall of the CCCP, demand skyrocketed as the mobsters wanted fine furs for their many women.
 Fur fashion in Canada fell off a cliff in the 90's, with the stupid clubbing of infant seals on ice flows making it on to TV, the entire industry took a hit, and never recovered.
 Ethics rest on the person wearing the fur. Personally I don't have a problem wearing a ranched fur, but I would not be wanting to wear multiple animals that were killed on some trap line.  Beaver fur is amazing to run your fingers through, although they smell of Aspen. But they are drowned and that doesn't sit well with me at all. 
  Fur from China could range from rat on up the chain, including ones pet dog or cat. It's not uncommon they found out that many fur trims on Chinese made garments are done in pet fur.

[NS1]

Not sure, my wife bought hers in Ukraine.
Some are raised on farms, some are trapped.
I doubt you want to know the real details.
I would be more concerned of the quality
of the fur and manufacture.

Edit: We were in a fur store in Montreal last month.
        But did not ask many questions as we were only looking.
        Montreal would likely give you the biggest selection in Canada.
     

[AvHdB]

My Julia has also hinted at wearing some dead animals.

I started to read up on this and there is one shopping center in downtown Kiev with a strong selection of furriers. I received an education, sometimes in Russian.

The most expensieve fur is sable and it only comes from Russia. The animals can not be raised in captivity. The fur is amazing.

The next most expensieve fur is mink, quite nice I might add. Raised on farms across the Northern Half, as well as trapped in the wild, the top furs are wild from Russia. Canadian farmed mink is very very good.

The one shop had an example from China, and I have no reference but the quality was extremely low.

In another shop, they had a wide array of pelts. I was amazed by ermine. Julia studied them for a moment and she quickly left. Outside I asked what was wrong and she admitted that she was upset to see that they were animals. Oh the logic of women.

I would suggest checking which animal furs are allowed into countries that your partner wants to wear the coat in. I saw both leopard and ocelot furs plus some other cat furs, I would suspect you have a rather limited list of countries that you can wear said furs in. I also suspect that there are steep discounts in the late spring on fur coats across the board.

[Maxx]

There is something about the tactile feel of putting your arms around a woman wearing a fur coat.

[Chris]

Why not buy from the UK also here   Origin Assured!

[AvHdB]

Отличная меховая фабрика, в соответствии с ГОСТами!!!

While I do not know many of the GOST (ГОСТ) standards and certifications I sort of doubt they will apply to furs. Even if yes they exist they will not be of much value beyond the CIS.

[AvHdB]

There is something about the tactile feel of putting your arms around a woman wearing a fur coat.

Usually it gets even more tactile when you get her out of the fur coat.

[andrewfi]

Actually there are GOST standards that apply to fur production.

You are right that they probably have little impact, at least directly, outside of the Russian trade zone. Often though there is a form of 'translation' to equivalent European standards. The lack of comprehensive translatability is, of course, at the heart of Ukrainian travails in its dealings with the EU. The point that Russians have been making for some time and which was at the heart of the previous legitimate state of Ukraine's desire to seek EU assistance prior to signing the EU Association Agreement.

[Anteros]

So wifey is thinking about a new fur coat.

As the learned will know, Russians often travel to places like Greece to buy fur cheaper than it is in Russia. But much of it comes in from China and other places where animal welfare is hardly top notch.

If someone wants to wear fur (and I am not interested in half-arsed arguments from two-faced 'anti fur' people who eat meat and wear leather shoes here - so don't bother) but they would like to know it was produced in a reasonably ethical manner, where does one buy it?

My wife suggested Canada, as it is cold there, so people [she assumes] must wear fur there. And as a country that probably has more stringent animal welfare rules than Greece, China or Russia, she may have a point if that is the case. As we have many Canadians here, I reckon they are the folks to ask this.

But I put the question out generally too: one can buy fur of unknown or dubious origin in many places. But if one wants to buy it from somewhere it is produced ethically, perhaps with some kind of certification to back that up, and not in US Dollars, where is that?

The highest quality mink is produced in the state of Wisconsin.  The most famous maker Worldwide is Zimbal. 


http://furcommission.com/wisconsin-still-number-one-in-mink-production/


http://zimbalmink.com/


excerpt
Zimbal Story
 
Written by: Elena Neverovskaya

What Becomes a Legendary Coat?

Behind the scenes of Blackglama.

“Don’t focus on the mink, but on what’s in it.” Jane Trahey

http://zimbalmink.com/about/press/zimbal-story/

[Annushka]

Sites of fur factories, Pyatigorsk.

http://www.mex-annushka.ru/

http://www.edita-kmv.ru/

https://karolina.myfur.ru/

http://alefmex.ru/

[Manny]

Thanks to all for the replies up to now. Other thoughts most welcome. 

[AvHdB]

Actually there are GOST standards that apply to fur production.

. . . they probably have little impact, at least directly, outside of the Russian trade zone. Often though there is a form of 'translation' to equivalent European standards. The lack of comprehensive translatability is, of course, at the heart of Ukrainian travails in its dealings with the EU. The point that Russians have been making for some time and which was at the heart of the previous legitimate state of Ukraine's desire to seek EU assistance prior to signing the EU Association Agreement.

Since I assume Manny is not going to branch off into dealing in dead animals, the GOST standards have no bearing on what you have on your back in the way of fur.

What will be important is the CITES Treaty or the so-called Washington Convention. Over 50 years old, it is one of the very few treaties that is signed by every nation. CITES governs the trade in Endangered Species. While Mrs Manny does not tell us what fur she is hunting. Looking through carefully, all the felines are forbidden by CITES, every wild cat is either in Appendix I and a few in Appendix II, where a limited and highly monitored amount of trade is allowed. Some countries have been given exceptions, Canada for the so-called Bob Cat allows the harvesting of a limited number of pelts. The Bob Cat ranges to Mexico and ranchers there are allowed to shoot them. These are most likely the pelts that one sees available in Slavic countries.

A quick perusal and it seems minks, sables, otters and other such animals are not listed anywhere. Some countries though have a higher standard and impose there own rules. It would be worth checking if one wanted to travel to say the Netherlands with the coat.

[andrewfi]

AvHdB, again you are wrong.

Google is your friend here. There are regulations within GOST that directly and specifically outline standards for the production of fur that is used to make clothing.

CITES is a different thing and you bring that up, not I. I simply pointed out that you had gotten something else wrong. 

GOST is a much broader set of standards than a USAIan or even European would be accustomed to.

[AvHdB]

. . . the GOST standards have no bearing on what you have on your back in the way of fur.

Since reading is a challenge for you please tell me where I am wrong. GOST has its founding going back to the Soviet period and is a set of standards and parameters for a variety of primarily industrial and mechanical equipment as well vessels, (not the ones in your bathtub) and city planning are part of its scope of activity. They are the Russian member organization to ISO and like ISO they do not get involved in clothing, art, music (except the technical standards by which CD's are produced) or the shape of female breasts. Do you see the difference?

AvHdB, again you are wrong.

Google is your friend here. There are regulations within GOST that directly and specifically outline standards for the production of fur that is used to make clothing.

CITES is a different thing and you bring that up, not I. I simply pointed out that you had gotten something else wrong. 

GOST is a much broader set of standards than a USAIan or even European would be accustomed to.

Andrew, Mrs. Manny wants to wear a fur across borders. In this situation GOST is often like your opinions ~ not worth anything. The only issue that one needs to be careful of is the said animal 'clean' with regards to Rules and Appendixes of CITE. Do you need me to explain or quote the CITE regulations?

Perhaps I am mistaken but in that you maintain there are standards from GOST for fur please point us to them. I do not see them on the web site of GOST. For that matter point us towards standards regarding clothing in general from GOST. (Russian will be fine).

But I sort of know your BS style, you will reply with, do your own research, 'because I know this stuff.' So be it, I would not expect more from you.

To make everything a little less challenging for you (I gather most things are a challenge) here are the web sites of GOST & CITES.

http://gostperevod.com/ (in English) this is in itself worth a read because it describes the scope of what GOST is about.

https://cites.org/ again in English but if you want the Russian side I would happy to supply it.

[TomT]

The fur is coming to you:

http://www.superstarlifestyle.com/incredibly-rare-black-fox-has-been-spotted-in-the-uk/?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=postplanner&utm_source=facebook.com

[MBS01]

In Canada one expects that "HBC" would be the main provider of such coats.  After all it started doing this back in 1670!  Today they own HBC (Hudson's Bay Company) stores in Canada; Lord and Taylor as well as Saks in the USA and most recently some department store chain in Germany.  If you instead want to own the company it is listed on the TSX (Toronto Stock Exchange).

Now back to the question they do carry a vast selection of fur coats.  Also provide Summer storage for you so it stays fresh and ready to wear again in the Winter.  They do have a special annual sales event as well each year.  At one time the headquarters was in Winnipeg; until they bought out "Robert Simpson" and then moved the head office to Toronto.  Now part of it is being converted into a new "Saks" store as part of a deal with the Toronto Eaton Centre here.

One expects our Brit friends can read up on history as to the beginning of "HBC" in 1670 as it does trace its long history back to the UK.  At one time it legally owned and controlled most of the land mass that is now Canada and the USA. 

Thus this is still a major source of the world's natural fur industry.  The "North West Company" its main North American rival also still exists, but no idea if it still sells furs too or not.

[andrewfi]

Oh, I just saw this. AvHdB, why, oh why...?

Google is your friend, you can do this, just do a search on GOST and fur or fur production. I do not know which of your less well educated acquaintances gave you your misunderstanding of what GOST standards are or of their breadth but he did you no favours. One of the first results that you will see in respect of GOST and fur is about the preparation of furs destined for use in clothing.

And yes, if you want to pay me to do your research then economise on your toping and get in touch. I'd not recommend doing so though because it is evident that your issues with knowledge come because you don't bother learning for yourself, preferring to rely upon 'experts'.

[Manny]

In Canada one expects that "HBC" would be the main provider of such coats.  After all it started doing this back in 1670!  Today they own HBC (Hudson's Bay Company) stores in Canada; Lord and Taylor as well as Saks in the USA and most recently some department store chain in Germany.  If you instead want to own the company it is listed on the TSX (Toronto Stock Exchange).

Now back to the question they do carry a vast selection of fur coats.  Also provide Summer storage for you so it stays fresh and ready to wear again in the Winter.  They do have a special annual sales event as well each year.  At one time the headquarters was in Winnipeg; until they bought out "Robert Simpson" and then moved the head office to Toronto.  Now part of it is being converted into a new "Saks" store as part of a deal with the Toronto Eaton Centre here.

One expects our Brit friends can read up on history as to the beginning of "HBC" in 1670 as it does trace its long history back to the UK.  At one time it legally owned and controlled most of the land mass that is now Canada and the USA. 

Thus this is still a major source of the world's natural fur industry.  The "North West Company" its main North American rival also still exists, but no idea if it still sells furs too or not.

Good info for investigation there, thanks.