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Author Topic: WADA: Doping in Sports in Russia  (Read 8010 times)

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Offline yankee

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Re: WADA: Doping in Sports in Russia
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2015, 09:52:07 AM »

How can Russia ever win if the CIA is so powerful that it can manipulate agencies like WADA so easily? Image what Russia will think if they're banned from the 2016 Olympics?

What will the world's top athletes think if they cannot compete against many of the Russian athletes at the Olympics?

Remember Jimmy Carter banning the US from the Olympics?
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Offline msmoby

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Re: WADA: Doping in Sports in Russia
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2015, 10:07:14 AM »
Hey Westy

ever get the feeling that certain folk regard it as 'sport' to shoot the messenger rather than dealing with the evidence   ? :chuckle:
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Online andrewfi

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Re: WADA: Doping in Sports in Russia
« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2015, 10:21:11 AM »
Win what, Westcoast?

Over US foreign policy and influence.

I am not entirely sure that what you wrote makes any sense.
Is there a competition?
What are the standards by which 'victory' is judged?

If you more accurately mean something like 'Is Russia attaining its foreign policy goals' then it would be hard to argue or demonstrate that they were not. I'd be interested to see an objective critique of Russian foreign policy with a comparison between their stated goals, as understood by yourself, and their attainment of those goals.
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Offline WestCoast

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Re: WADA: Doping in Sports in Russia
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2015, 10:31:53 AM »

How can Russia ever win if the CIA is so powerful that it can manipulate agencies like WADA so easily? Image what Russia will think if they're banned from the 2016 Olympics?

What will the world's top athletes think if they cannot compete against many of the Russian athletes at the Olympics?

Remember Jimmy Carter banning the US from the Olympics?

Some of the world's top athletes already can't compete against Russian athletes. For instance, some top events like marathons in the US aren't allowing top Russian athletes to enter because of doping in Russia.

The Russian athletes are pissed because prize money for the NYC marathon is $100,000.

Jimmy Carter only withdrew the US from the 1980 Olympics in Moscow, not from events elsewhere in the world. Of course because of the boycott of the 1980 Olympics in Moscow by the US and other countries, the Soviets led a boycott of the 1984 Olympics. If Russia is banned from the 2016 Olympics maybe they will in retaliation refuse to participate in the 2020 Olympics?

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/01/sports/new-york-city-marathon-road-runners-russia-doping.html
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That means I'm a subject matter expert on all things Russia, Ukraine and UK.

Offline WestCoast

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Re: WADA: Doping in Sports in Russia
« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2015, 10:40:53 AM »
Win what, Westcoast?

Over US foreign policy and influence.

I am not entirely sure that what you wrote makes any sense.
Is there a competition?

Of course there is. Remember how fiercely the USSR held onto the Warsaw Pact? Now Russia is claiming the US/NATO alliance is trying to break Russia. Yet Russia's neighbours say they are escaping rule by Russia by joining NATO and the EU.

What are the standards by which 'victory' is judged?
Possibly by which country has the most allies? The US, Russia and China have their own criteria I'm sure. The public will never know the  truth.


If you more accurately mean something like 'Is Russia attaining its foreign policy goals' then it would be hard to argue or demonstrate that they were not. I'd be interested to see an objective critique of Russian foreign policy with a comparison between their stated goals, as understood by yourself, and their attainment of those goals.

I'd like to see the true foreign policy goals of both Russia and the US. Do you really think either Russia or the US would release their true foreign policy goals?
andrewfi says ''Proximity is almost no guarantee of authority" and "in many cases, distance gives a better picture with less emotional and subjective input."

That means I'm a subject matter expert on all things Russia, Ukraine and UK.

Offline WestCoast

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Re: WADA: Doping in Sports in Russia
« Reply #30 on: November 11, 2015, 10:41:54 AM »
Hey Westy

ever get the feeling that certain folk regard it as 'sport' to shoot the messenger rather than dealing with the evidence   ? :chuckle:

Someone has to educate them.  :laugh:
andrewfi says ''Proximity is almost no guarantee of authority" and "in many cases, distance gives a better picture with less emotional and subjective input."

That means I'm a subject matter expert on all things Russia, Ukraine and UK.

Offline msmoby

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Re: WADA: Doping in Sports in Russia
« Reply #31 on: November 11, 2015, 01:42:07 PM »
Latest news: The Russians are pointing out that the medals that Russian athletes won at the 2012 games were tested by the British  - using their methods..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/34785562
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Offline Tom Cat

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Re: WADA: Doping in Sports in Russia
« Reply #32 on: November 11, 2015, 04:45:25 PM »
The big man himself admitted today Russia has a doping problem and will cooperate in efforts to get it under control.
Don't shoot the messenger, links to articles posted, don't necessarily reflect my personal opinion.

Offline Tom Cat

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Re: WADA: Doping in Sports in Russia
« Reply #33 on: November 11, 2015, 04:50:22 PM »
Russian president Vladimir Putin orders action over WADA commission's explosive doping claims

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-12/russian-president-vladimir-putin-orders-action-over-wada-doping/6933746
Don't shoot the messenger, links to articles posted, don't necessarily reflect my personal opinion.

Offline rosco

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Re: WADA: Doping in Sports in Russia
« Reply #34 on: November 12, 2015, 02:29:58 AM »
I knew Westy would get a semi over this!  (:)

I want the athletes to take drugs. I mean, do you want to see someone shave a hundredth of a second off the 100m record, or do you want to see them run it in 3 seconds? I don’t want to see Dwaine Chambers running on steroids; I want to see him running with the legs of a kangaroo and the heart of a leopard. I want to see him run so fast that half-way through the race, he disappears, like the car from Back to the Future, reappears at the finish line as an old man, shouts “BEWARE CHINA”, and crumbles into  :censored: ing dust! - Frankie Boyle

Didn't know who Frankie Boyle is so I looked him up. Idiot Brit comedian who despised by a great number of his countrymen. Sounds about right for rosco.

Not sure I would describe Frankie as an idiot. In fact, he's an extremely intelligent bloke but his humour does push the boundaries at times. You'll find he has quite a following too although few with positions of authority welcome being challenged. He is in fact incredibly popular with his countrymen so I guess yet again, this conveys to us how you read something and then get it all wrong?

I'd describe him as an anti establishment type who sees things for what they are, be it US bombing campaigns around the world or government cover ups and banking scandals. People abusing positions of authority and use media to justify the unjustifiable until people like Frankie come along and point out the facts. So it's OK you think these types are unpopular idiots. You're the type of guy who prefers to live under a mushroom and be spoon fed crap and regurgitate it with like minded fools. I guess life is safer for you that way.

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Re: WADA: Doping in Sports in Russia
« Reply #35 on: November 12, 2015, 03:55:07 AM »
Some of the world's top athletes already can't compete against Russian athletes. For instance, some top events like marathons in the US aren't allowing top Russian athletes to enter because of doping in Russia.
Yet nobody is complaining you can't beat the Dutch in ice-skating. Check out the sochi-stats for the world winter olympics last time. That was almost a disgrace.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Winter_Olympics_medal_table#/media/File:Men%27s_5000m,_2014_Winter_Olympics,_Podium.jpg

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Offline msmoby

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Re: WADA: Doping in Sports in Russia
« Reply #36 on: November 12, 2015, 04:11:01 AM »

Yet nobody is complaining you can't beat the Dutch in ice-skating. Check out the sochi-stats for the world winter olympics last time. That was almost a disgrace.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Winter_Olympics_medal_table#/media/File:Men%27s_5000m,_2014_Winter_Olympics,_Podium.jpg

Mark.

How is it a 'disgrace' ?

are you suggesting they all doped ?
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Offline msmoby

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Re: WADA: Doping in Sports in Russia
« Reply #37 on: November 12, 2015, 02:17:05 PM »
Are the Beeb jumping the gun ?

''Athletics doping scandal: Russian federation to admit some charges''

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/34801325

''The Russian federation's acting president Vadim Zelichenok says it will "admit some things" in its response.

"We admit some things, we argue with some things, some are already fixed - it's a variety," Zelichenok told the Associated Press.''
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Offline msmoby

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Re: WADA: Doping in Sports in Russia
« Reply #38 on: November 13, 2015, 02:29:56 PM »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/34814491

Athletics doping scandal: Russia ready to co-operate, says minister

Sports Minister Vitaly Mutko.'' Russia is willing to do "whatever the IAAF says".

"I guarantee - in the name of the state - that we will co-operate in any way to sort out the athletics federation in the shortest possible time," he said.

"If we need to change everyone there - we will do it''

As I surmised - there'll be scapegoats....  what ever happened to the report's findings being groundless  ?


I am hopeful that those athletes / coaches who are clean will not be tarnished by those who sought to win at any cost
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Offline msmoby

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Re: WADA: Doping in Sports in Russia
« Reply #39 on: November 13, 2015, 02:35:10 PM »
now from the Russian perspective..

The headline is that the IAAF has to get it's house in order ...

https://www.rt.com/sport/321866-iaaf-credibility-tatters-mutko/



Well, that's also true - but nice try at deflecting one's own sins in the whole scandal ...


Amazing, to read the same subject and it to be reported so differently
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Offline msmoby

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Re: WADA: Doping in Sports in Russia
« Reply #40 on: November 13, 2015, 02:45:33 PM »
wow, can't keep up

Russia's been suspended, provisionally by the IAAF

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/34811896

Nothing from Russia Today, yet..

I seriously hope that the clean athletes can complete in Rio next year.

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Offline WestCoast

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Re: WADA: Doping in Sports in Russia
« Reply #41 on: November 13, 2015, 09:50:25 PM »
It just got worse. Sabestian Coe president of the IAAF said Russia will be banned from next year's Olympics unless it convinces the world it has cleaned up its act on doping.

The move bars Russia from all international track and field competition for an indefinite period, including the 2016 Olympics in Rio de Janeiro, until the country is judged to have fixed its problems and fallen into line with global anti-doping rules.

Will Putin bow to the will of the IAAF and clean up doping in Russia or will he just say Russia's done nothing wrong and dare the IAAF to uphold Russia's suspension from the 2016 Olympics and international events in general?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/russia-banned-olympics_56468696e4b0603773492aed?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/2015/11/13/russia-track-suspension-doping-iaaf-rio-olympics/75722032/

http://nypost.com/2015/11/13/russias-track-team-may-miss-olympics-after-historic-doping-ban/
andrewfi says ''Proximity is almost no guarantee of authority" and "in many cases, distance gives a better picture with less emotional and subjective input."

That means I'm a subject matter expert on all things Russia, Ukraine and UK.

Offline Wiz

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Re: WADA: Doping in Sports in Russia
« Reply #42 on: November 14, 2015, 05:22:49 AM »
Analysis: BBC athletics correspondent Mike Costello

"This feels like a moment when the cynicism of athletes and others inside the sport is shown to be justified and the sport's leaders are forced, finally, into a constructive response. The vote in favour of suspension was more emphatic than many had predicted and serves as a clear signal to Russia that the era of winning dirty is over. The Russian authorities say they are ready to change the culture of corruption and cover-up."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/34811896

also.. Athletics doping: Lord Coe has been naive, says Martyn Rooney

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/34805687

Athlete Martyn Rooney has questioned whether IAAF president Lord Coe knew of problems at athletics' governing body or had his "head in the sand".

Coe indicated "rogue elements" may have infiltrated the IAAF, where he was vice-president for eight years.

"It is pretty disrespectful to believe the vice-president did not know what was going on within IAAF," said Rooney.

"That is his job and if he believes he did not know what was going on he has not been doing his job properly," he added.

UK anti-doping system worse than Russia's, says Russian  minister

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/34785562

Referring to the 2012 Olympics, he added: "It was Britain's anti-doping organisation under the leadership of the International Olympic Committee.

"Each medal winner was tested for doping and received their medal only after having tested negative."

List of doping cases in athletics
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases_in_athletics

The use of performance-enhancing drugs (doping) is prohibited within the sport of athletics. Athletes who are found to have used such banned substances, either through a positive drugs test, the biological passport system, an investigation or public admission, receive a competition ban for a length of time which reflects the severity of the infraction.

I read through this very long list of “Banned Athletes for doping” and it is just amazing to see that NOT A SINGLE USA ATHLETE included in the list! UMBELEIVABLE!   :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:

WestCoast, you have relentlessly pursuit the western propaganda emanating from Washington and Langley(CIA) against Russia and Putin, I guess you never visited Russia and so far you have shown yourself to be nothing more than an obsessed troll (probably paid one), a clown and nothing more. Your only achievement was to increase the post counter of this board, irritate the good and valuable members on the board with your inane posts and present yourself as a complete baffoon. You obviously think or were told, the more you repeat a lie, under various cover stories,  mud will stick to Russia and Putin but for your luck you come across belonging to the last choice from the 3 choices given earlier in another post to Moby. Well done Westy!  :dh:

Take a look at this short clip from an old film,  “The Russian House” and despite the missing dialogue and description about the USA, by Sean Connery,  still the rest of the dialogue  applies accordingly to you and your beloved propaganda.


Finally, another nail in the coffin and failure of the American Diplomacy!

As many as 111 countries recognized the independence of the Serbian province of “Kosovo”.  However, only 92 countries supported Kosovo's bid for UNESCO membership, whereas 50 delegations voted against it. The voting marked an unexpected victory for Serbia and Russia that opposed the unilateral declaration of Kosovo's independence.

http://www.pravdareport.com/world/europe/10-11-2015/132554-kosovo_unesco-0/

Is there anything in your Media about it?

 :coffeeread:
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Offline msmoby

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Re: WADA: Doping in Sports in Russia
« Reply #43 on: November 14, 2015, 06:19:33 AM »
Dear Wiz,

You seem to need my help

if you needed to learn of doping USA athletes, why not go to the horses mouth  ?

http://www.usatf.org/about/legal/antidoping/suspensions.asp

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Offline msmoby

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Re: WADA: Doping in Sports in Russia
« Reply #44 on: November 14, 2015, 06:24:23 AM »
Wiz

if you want to post stuff about Kosovo and learn something - let's ask the mods to move the part of your off-topic 'rant' and you can speak to a poster who's been to both Kosovo and 'Abkhazia' - the Kremlin's [ petulant  ?] response to the former's recognition..

You can tell us there how many nations recognise 'Abkhazia' - some of those nation even withdrew their recognition ....
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Offline WestCoast

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Re: WADA: Doping in Sports in Russia
« Reply #45 on: November 14, 2015, 09:37:49 AM »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases_in_athletics

The use of performance-enhancing drugs (doping) is prohibited within the sport of athletics. Athletes who are found to have used such banned substances, either through a positive drugs test, the biological passport system, an investigation or public admission, receive a competition ban for a length of time which reflects the severity of the infraction.

I read through this very long list of “Banned Athletes for doping” and it is just amazing to see that NOT A SINGLE USA ATHLETE included in the list! UMBELEIVABLE!   :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:

Wiz you're telling me that you read with the Wikipedia list of athletes banned for doping and couldn't find a single American athlete banned for doping? I read through the same list and stopped counting at 50 American athletes banned for doping.


WestCoast, you have relentlessly pursuit the western propaganda emanating from Washington and Langley(CIA) against Russia and Putin, I guess you never visited Russia and so far you have shown yourself to be nothing more than an obsessed troll (probably paid one), a clown and nothing more. Your only achievement was to increase the post counter of this board, irritate the good and valuable members on the board with your inane posts and present yourself as a complete baffoon. You obviously think or were told, the more you repeat a lie, under various cover stories,  mud will stick to Russia and Putin but for your luck you come across belonging to the last choice from the 3 choices given earlier in another post to Moby. Well done Westy!  :dh:

Wiz, I told you I work for the CIA. Currently I'm at home in an apartment in Arlington, VA.

Take a look at this short clip from an old film,  “The Russian House” and despite the missing dialogue and description about the USA, by Sean Connery,  still the rest of the dialogue  applies accordingly to you and your beloved propaganda.


Seen the movie, not one of Sean Connery's best works.


Finally, another nail in the coffin and failure of the American Diplomacy!

As many as 111 countries recognized the independence of the Serbian province of “Kosovo”.  However, only 92 countries supported Kosovo's bid for UNESCO membership, whereas 50 delegations voted against it. The voting marked an unexpected victory for Serbia and Russia that opposed the unilateral declaration of Kosovo's independence.

http://www.pravdareport.com/world/europe/10-11-2015/132554-kosovo_unesco-0/

Is there anything in your Media about it?

 :coffeeread:

Wiz, how many countries have recognised Russia's annexation of Crimea? Want to bet it's far far less than 50?
andrewfi says ''Proximity is almost no guarantee of authority" and "in many cases, distance gives a better picture with less emotional and subjective input."

That means I'm a subject matter expert on all things Russia, Ukraine and UK.

Offline Wiz

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Re: WADA: Doping in Sports in Russia
« Reply #46 on: November 15, 2015, 03:13:50 AM »

a) Wiz you're telling me that you read with the Wikipedia list of athletes banned for doping and couldn't find a single American athlete banned for doping? I read through the same list and stopped counting at 50 American athletes banned for doping.

b) Wiz, I told you I work for the CIA. Currently I'm at home in an apartment in Arlington, VA.

c) Seen the movie, not one of Sean Connery's best works.

d) Wiz, how many countries have recognised Russia's annexation of Crimea? Want to bet it's far far less than 50?

a) I can't help you missing the sarcasm.....you may need a pair of new glasses.....

b) That is probably true, filing this board with all that crap.

C) You know the song: "I say Tomato and you say Potato" .....you must be deaf or as you stated previously.... a spammer and troll working for the CIA, which leads me to beleive you were not a good Bankster and economic assassing, so you been given the Troll job and not good at it either!

D) Crimea is legally a part of Russia and do not need recognision from anybody. I expect you read the UN charter, pointed out to you previously.

Lastly, as Sean Connerey said in his last reply ........ I do not give a F.... if you like my views or not!

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Re: WADA: Doping in Sports in Russia
« Reply #47 on: November 15, 2015, 08:13:58 AM »
Finally, another nail in the coffin and failure of the American Diplomacy!

As many as 111 countries recognized the independence of the Serbian province of “Kosovo”.  However, only 92 countries supported Kosovo's bid for UNESCO membership, whereas 50 delegations voted against it. The voting marked an unexpected victory for Serbia and Russia that opposed the unilateral declaration of Kosovo's independence.

http://www.pravdareport.com/world/europe/10-11-2015/132554-kosovo_unesco-0/


You truly are challenged, we are speaking on this thread about using performance enhancing drugs and Russia's systemic use and abuse.

For the good order this not about a group of Slavs in the South.
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Re: WADA: Doping in Sports in Russia
« Reply #48 on: November 15, 2015, 11:34:14 AM »
Finally, another nail in the coffin and failure of the American Diplomacy!

As many as 111 countries recognized the independence of the Serbian province of “Kosovo”.  However, only 92 countries supported Kosovo's bid for UNESCO membership, whereas 50 delegations voted against it. The voting marked an unexpected victory for Serbia and Russia that opposed the unilateral declaration of Kosovo's independence.

http://www.pravdareport.com/world/europe/10-11-2015/132554-kosovo_unesco-0/


You truly are challenged, we are speaking on this thread about using performance enhancing drugs and Russia's systemic use and abuse.

For the good order this not about a group of Slavs in the South.

It is exceedingly dangerous for Americans to remain so ignorant of world affairs but their lack of knowledge is a direct result of media complicity with the state. One day we’re told that Russia has too much ice, the next that it has no right to help Syria and its actions are "premature", or that Putin’s spokesman is wearing an expensive watch.

Every day (today is athletics) another attack and every report is intended to belittle or demonize Russia and make it easier for the United States government to do what it wants without risking resistance. Any nation strong enough to counter American imperialism must be vanquished and that is much easier if it is feared and or hated.

The United States is represented by a man of not one achievement, unless you count instituting an industrial-scale system of extrajudicial killing, sending missiles against women and children and mere suspects, a man who serves the American military-intelligence complex as doggedly as George Bush, surely the most ignorant and cowardly man ever to be called President.
Why the sun does not shine on the Ex- British Empire Anymore? Because God never trusted an Englishman in the dark!

Offline Tom Cat

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Re: WADA: Doping in Sports in Russia
« Reply #49 on: November 16, 2015, 07:34:04 AM »
Russians are still competing,in international competition.
Wonder how long before accusations of doping will overshadow Kulizhnikov's world record performance?

Russian speed skater Pavel Kulizhnikov breaks world record

http://rbth.com/sport/2015/11/16/rusian-speed-skater-pavel-kulizhnikov-breaks-world-record_540953
Don't shoot the messenger, links to articles posted, don't necessarily reflect my personal opinion.