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Author Topic: Be carful not to be deported whilst living in Russia  (Read 1198 times)

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Online Steveboy

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Be carful not to be deported whilst living in Russia
« on: November 03, 2015, 09:32:22 AM »
Recently it has become very easy to be denied entry into Russia after a short trip out even for the smallest offence. A friend of mine received a ticket for J walking last week , the fine 500 roubles about £5.00 but it took three long days going back and forth trying to pay this fine.
Its the same for driving, two tickets and you will be denied entry back into Russia. I always seemed to collect tickets in the UK for a past time , usually speeding or going through a red light   :hidechair:. I was kind of refused entry into the US  once as I went through a red light whilst in LA and had an out standing ticket. I was surprised to have a court summons appear in the post from the sherifs department $188.00 to pay before I could arrive in the US again  :) Of course in Russia you can always offer the policeman a little something if your confident enough to do it :)

Always stay within the law and if you do find yourself with some small fine sort it out fast!

Offline Maxx

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Re: Be carful not to be deported whilst living in Russia
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2015, 11:10:31 AM »

There seems to be a real effort lately by governments to extend their international reach and enforcement.  We are probably living in the last few years of having somewhat freedom when living abroad.

Online andrewfi

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Re: Be carful not to be deported whilst living in Russia
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2015, 11:40:58 AM »
You are probably correct.

The big driver for this is and will be taxation.

While Les is right about living 'under the radar' the definition of living well varies considerably but the totals of lost revenue add up.

Oddly enough it is not always the 'new' country that is bothered about the tax but rather the old one. USAians are familiar with this but the idea of collecting taxes off us no matter where we live is too attractive to cash strapped states for them to be able to give up on it.

"For what else is the life of man but a kind of play in which men in various costumes perform until the director motions them offstage?" -Erasmus


Offline Maxx

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Re: Be carful not to be deported whilst living in Russia
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2015, 11:49:59 AM »

I understand I can open a bank account it Georgia quite easily. However I hesitate to do so because of FACTA. Not because I would do anything wrong but in the eyes of government it could be a red flag for them. I like to be left alone as much as possible.

Online Markje

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Re: Be carful not to be deported whilst living in Russia
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2015, 12:33:37 PM »

I understand I can open a bank account it Georgia quite easily. However I hesitate to do so because of FACTA. Not because I would do anything wrong but in the eyes of government it could be a red flag for them. I like to be left alone as much as possible.

Maxx, if you plan on moving permanently, why not transfer all your assets to the Georgian bank and then rescind your USA citizenship and keep georgian only. If I am correct, that will mean you no longer have FACTA and sillyness to worry about. (But also no benefits from USA if you still have em).
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Offline Maxx

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Re: Be carful not to be deported whilst living in Russia
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2015, 12:54:47 PM »

I understand I can open a bank account it Georgia quite easily. However I hesitate to do so because of FACTA. Not because I would do anything wrong but in the eyes of government it could be a red flag for them. I like to be left alone as much as possible.

Maxx, if you plan on moving permanently, why not transfer all your assets to the Georgian bank and then rescind your USA citizenship and keep georgian only. If I am correct, that will mean you no longer have FACTA and sillyness to worry about. (But also no benefits from USA if you still have em).

I reject that for a variety of reasons. One of them is it could affect my retirement funds that come from the government.

Online andrewfi

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Re: Be carful not to be deported whilst living in Russia
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2015, 01:01:00 PM »

I understand I can open a bank account it Georgia quite easily. However I hesitate to do so because of FACTA. Not because I would do anything wrong but in the eyes of government it could be a red flag for them. I like to be left alone as much as possible.

Georgia is a small country. I bet that living there without a local bank account would be rather hard.
Short term you will be fine, longer term it'll start to get less convenient.

"For what else is the life of man but a kind of play in which men in various costumes perform until the director motions them offstage?" -Erasmus

Offline Maxx

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Re: Be carful not to be deported whilst living in Russia
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2015, 05:18:46 PM »

I understand I can open a bank account it Georgia quite easily. However I hesitate to do so because of FACTA. Not because I would do anything wrong but in the eyes of government it could be a red flag for them. I like to be left alone as much as possible.

Georgia is a small country. I bet that living there without a local bank account would be rather hard.
Short term you will be fine, longer term it'll start to get less convenient.

I believe that as long as less than 10K a year is run through it I do not have to report it. I can use ATM cards for all the rest.

Online andrewfi

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Re: Be carful not to be deported whilst living in Russia
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2015, 12:33:31 AM »
It ain't you, it's the bank.

FATCA implementation is down to the bank and they have no idea what you will do with the account. That's why many banks turn away blue passport holders.

The reason why I mentioned Georgia as a small country is that round here it is small countries that have gone furthest with electronic payments and ID. I just did a really quick check and confirmed that Georgia is similar to Estonia in this regard.

Paying for utilities is mostly electronic, for example, in Estonia I have no idea how one would pay a utility bill without a bank account - indeed, one could not get utilities without a bank account. Georgia looks similar.

We don't have cheques here and many businesses use bank payments, not credit cards, for online payments. Unless you have found a credit card or debit card in the US without charges for foreign use then using your plastic will quickly become uneconomic.

You can get round some of this stuff. Your apartment manager may include some utilities in your rent, but that also means that you will be overpaying in most cases. That's what is done with short term lets. When one has friends who trust one then they might set up accounts for phones, TV, Internet etc in their names - making themselves responsible for your debts, but that's not going to happen overnight, and you will have to pay them so that they can pay the bills.

"For what else is the life of man but a kind of play in which men in various costumes perform until the director motions them offstage?" -Erasmus

Offline Manny

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Re: Be carful not to be deported whilst living in Russia
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2015, 01:09:47 AM »
That's why many banks turn away blue passport holders.

And ones that don't make you sign a slew of forms allowing them to bypass national laws and report all your financial dealings to the US government. Although, despite that info exchange, the IRS is unlikely to be too interested in a non-resident bloke spending his legitimately gained income. There is no meat on that bone for them.

Online Markje

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Re: Be carful not to be deported whilst living in Russia
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2015, 01:19:59 AM »
Paying for utilities is mostly electronic, for example, in Estonia I have no idea how one would pay a utility bill without a bank account - indeed, one could not get utilities without a bank account. Georgia looks similar.
Its like that in most European countries I have been (which is most of western Europe and part of east-europe, except the baltics)

I think having a bank-account is mandatory in Netherlands, if you plan to live here more than 6 months. Doesn't have to be a dutch/local bank, but you will be paying far too much in transit-fee's if you don't.
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Online andrewfi

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Re: Be carful not to be deported whilst living in Russia
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2015, 01:49:19 AM »
Manny, you are right about the 'meat on the bone' except that as the info is now processed electronically there is only a negligible marginal cost for dealing with each search query. That means that the scraps of meat that are not worth chasing get smaller and smaller.

The forms and stuff - that's FATCA.

The reason many banks don't accept US clients is because they chose to avoid the expense incurred in dealing with USAians with negligible money. The cost of the administration and compliance systems is much greater than the profits to be derived from those USAians.

Bottom line, as a visitor to Georgia Maxx will likely have no problems with life - he will just overpay for everything. Later on, he will notice the cost and, as he is no longer a 'guest', will need to sort stuff out for himself - jumping through those hoops as an illiterate member of the unbanked community will not be a cakewalk.

That's the process, that's how it works. ;)

"For what else is the life of man but a kind of play in which men in various costumes perform until the director motions them offstage?" -Erasmus

Offline Maxx

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Re: Be carful not to be deported whilst living in Russia
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2015, 02:18:11 AM »

It's almost 3 AM as I am about to write this. I just woke up but will be back to sleep when I post this.

My understanding of the issues are these. It is easy for a US citizen to open a bank account in Georgia. It only takes an hour or so. (I'll see). There are bill pay machines everywhere as there are ATMs. The ATMs pay both in Georgian Lari and US dollars. I do have a new (as of a few weeks ago) Charles Schwab checking account that has no monthly minimums, no service fees and reimburses all ATM and international wire fees at the end of the month.

 The reporting of bank accounts to the Department of Treasury is required if the aggregate total exceeds $10K a year. Otherwise I could face a $10,000 a year fine. I think I can pay rent and utilities for less than that and use cash for all other expenses.

The problem I have not resolved yet is I just noticed I have a notification from Charles Schwab that I need to provide them some additional documentation. That is odd because I have made a deposit into my account there and they did mail me a deposit slip. But the problem probably is they need this to link my other bank to them. 

The other problem I have with them is I haven't got my ATM card yet. I do have a debit card from my main bank and that bank knows I will be in Georgia for an indefinite amount of time. I sat in the office of the bank president and I seen him enter it into the bank computer.

I'll check with my local C.S. contact later today about the request for additional information and where my ATM card is. I leave in 21 days.

Online Steveboy

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Re: Be carful not to be deported whilst living in Russia
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2015, 04:22:33 AM »
Blimmey!!!! The US really does run a Nazi regime!! I guess they will be barcoding you at birth soon to keep track of you and probably putting a chip in your head :laugh:


Online andrewfi

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Re: Be carful not to be deported whilst living in Russia
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2015, 06:00:25 AM »
Blimmey!!!! The US really does run a Nazi regime!! I guess they will be barcoding you at birth soon to keep track of you and probably putting a chip in your head :laugh:

They and, I think just one other country, are the only two places that tax one on one's worldwide income even if non-resident in the US.

This FATCA system is a US system and is designed to enable the IRS to track this income from anywhere in the world.

Don't joke about the chip and bar-code stuff. Apparently the UN is looking into some form of universal identification for all humans for implementation in the next decade or two. The time of the mark of the beast is nearly nigh.

And, yes, Maxx. All Georgian banks will happily report all your financial doings to the IRS for you. They have signed up to FATCA. CLICK HERE!
So, you might as well get yourself a Georgian bank account the moment you step off the plane. ;)

The 10K limit is unconnected to FATCA. The reporting threshold is about your liability to report to the relevant authorities in your country. Under FATCA your bank will report your holdings without reference to that threshold.

I find myself wondering whether the agreement between Georgia and the US now means that some Georgian banks will be refusing to accept US clients as I noted above or whether all banks have agreed to implement reporting. The linked article is not completely clear but the implication is that all banks are taking part. Time will tell I guess.

"For what else is the life of man but a kind of play in which men in various costumes perform until the director motions them offstage?" -Erasmus