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Author Topic: Living off stock returns in the FSU - What do I need to be aware of?  (Read 1648 times)

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Offline Robert1974

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I am considering moving somewhere in Eastern Europe and live off stock returns from my investments in my native country Sweden. I'm in the early stages of considering this and I haven't decided on a specific country to move to yet. However, I would like some general advice on what to think about if I decide to so. For example, would I be able to get a long term visa (maybe I could be considered a retired person and I could get a retiree's visa), would I need to set up some sort of local business that I would need to channel my earnings through, would I be taxed in my new country of resedence in addition to being taxed in Sweden, etc. I'm aware of the risks associated with relying on this type of income and I don't want those to be discussed in this thread. Rather, I'm interested in the visa, tax, and administrative issues involved. Thanks in advance for any input.

Online msmoby

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Re: Living off stock returns in the FSU - What do I need to be aware of?
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2015, 05:30:54 AM »
Robert

The question you've raised cannot easily be answered without more questions, first...

1/ Do wish to settle in a E.European nation that is in / might join the EU /EEA ?

2/ Have you visted this nations - as I - personally - need 'company' to enjoy living in a third nation.


Online Maxx

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Re: Living off stock returns in the FSU - What do I need to be aware of?
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2015, 03:06:56 PM »

In three weeks and three days I am moving to the Republic of Georgia. In the Expat section here there is a thread entitled, "Maxx's relocation to Tbilisi Georgia." In that thread I discuss that Georgia does not require a visa and allows 1 year stays (with easy renewals), easy place to open a bank account, easy place to start a business and as one financial writer dubbed it, "The Republic of Easy." http://nomadcapitalist.com/2014/12/03/georgia-one-capitalist-countries-world/  The Georgian government wants to integrate into the West. An example of that English is taught to school children from grade 1 on. 


Offline Robert1974

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Re: Living off stock returns in the FSU - What do I need to be aware of?
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2015, 12:31:23 PM »
Thanks for your replies.

1/ Do wish to settle in a E.European nation that is in / might join the EU /EEA ?
2/ Have you visted this nations - as I - personally - need 'company' to enjoy living in a third nation.

Yes, preferably I would like to choose an EU-country (Poland, Romania and the Baltics come to mind) because it would be easier from a visa point of view and the standard of living is higher there. The plan is to go somewhere where I'd be likely to find someone and if I don't find someone within, let's say 6 months, I'd move on to the next place. Since I am willing to live there I'm not limited to look for women who wants to emigrate.

I have visited all Eastern European countries except Russia, Azerbaijan, and Kazakhstan.



In three weeks and three days I am moving to the Republic of Georgia. In the Expat section here there is a thread entitled, "Maxx's relocation to Tbilisi Georgia." In that thread I discuss that Georgia does not require a visa and allows 1 year stays (with easy renewals), easy place to open a bank account, easy place to start a business and as one financial writer dubbed it, "The Republic of Easy." http://nomadcapitalist.com/2014/12/03/georgia-one-capitalist-countries-world/  The Georgian government wants to integrate into the West. An example of that English is taught to school children from grade 1 on.
Thanks for your tip, I will definitely look into Georgia.

Online Maxx

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Re: Living off stock returns in the FSU - What do I need to be aware of?
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2015, 12:41:11 PM »

I've heard Georgia is a difficult place to meet women. I'm not going there for that. When thoughts of a bride search come to mind I envision a short flight across the Black Sea and renting an apartment in Moldova or Ukraine. Flights are dirt cheap once you get there. Also there is the added benefit that if your lady has the impression Georgia is your permanent home she is less likely to size you up for a mule suit, as they used to say.

Online andrewfi

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Re: Living off stock returns in the FSU - What do I need to be aware of?
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2015, 01:44:15 PM »
Meeting people and making connections is an attitude of mind. With the right attitude you don't need to go further than your own environs.

Moldova is a great place to visit but I'd not get the idea, ahead of time, that you will not find all the company you need very close to you in Georgia (or Tallinn, or Paris, or Bristol, or...)

"For what else is the life of man but a kind of play in which men in various costumes perform until the director motions them offstage?" -Erasmus

Online msmoby

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Re: Living off stock returns in the FSU - What do I need to be aware of?
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2015, 05:43:11 PM »


Yes, preferably I would like to choose an EU-country .. because it would be easier from a visa point of view and the standard of living is higher there.

Hi Robert,

there are places -such as Sochi - in Russia where Iwould say the qulaity and std. of living is better than many EU nations..

Getting a visa to be there for six months isn't difficult-if you can demonstrate the ability to support yourself.



For sure, earning money there would be harder - but not impossible.


I've heard Georgia is a difficult place to meet women. I'm not going there for that.

I know 2tallbill suggested this and I applaud you for choosing the place and seeing how things pan out.


Online Maxx

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Re: Living off stock returns in the FSU - What do I need to be aware of?
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2015, 07:07:21 PM »
Yes, it's a Zen like thing. Concentrate too hard and you'll miss every time. 

Online leslied

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Re: Living off stock returns in the FSU - What do I need to be aware of?
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2015, 11:33:38 PM »
Robert

My comments relate to your tax position. 

1.  Whilst you remain tax domiciled in Sweden, you will pay taxes on any investments in Sweden.

2. If you earn an income in another country (say Poland), you will be taxed on that part of your income in Poland. Retain your tax receipt!  You must also declare this income on your Swedish tax return.  Submit the Polish tax receipt (or copy) so you will not be taxed twice. If your Swedish tax rate is higher than the tax charged you will be taxed on the difference. Say 30% in Poland but 50% in Sweden you will be charged the 20% tax on the Polish income. Nearly all the countries you are considering have double taxation agreements with Sweden.

3.  You need to live for 6 months in any EU country in order to change your domicile to that country.  (Please verify this with a Swedish Tax Accountant. I am NOT a Tax Professional).

4. Changing your tax domicile is a BIG step. You will definitely need two tax specialists one in Sweden, the other in the new domicile.  It will take more than a year.  Only do this if you plan to live in your new tax domicile for several years.

Good Luck !

Offline Steveboy

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Re: Living off stock returns in the FSU - What do I need to be aware of?
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2015, 06:30:40 AM »
I would find yourself a nice lady in Russia with her own apartment and a reasonable job marry her and move in :)

You will not need to even think about paying any tax for a long time whilst your sorting your green card out , live "Under the radar" as thousands of others do across the planet :smoking:

I always say keep well clear of "Tax specialists" or "Financial advisors" usually they are vermin :sick0012: Of course unless your bringing in the millions ;D


Online leslied

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Re: Living off stock returns in the FSU - What do I need to be aware of?
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2015, 07:59:55 AM »
The OP wants to live off the income from his investments, so taxation is inevitable.  Nearly all dividend income is subject to withholding tax.

Living under the radar is fine if you don't have much money.  If you do, it is stupid.

You only need tax advisers if you have money.  The more money you have the better quality tax adviser you need.

If you are fortunate enough to have millions only a partner specializing in Tax from PWC (or one of the big 5) will do.  :thumbsup:

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Re: Living off stock returns in the FSU - What do I need to be aware of?
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2015, 08:37:54 AM »

Income from stock returns leaves a paper trail. It is better to just pay the tax than get cute and not report it. What I think Steve is referring to is cash payments for English lessons.

Offline Steveboy

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Re: Living off stock returns in the FSU - What do I need to be aware of?
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2015, 09:15:47 AM »
Well tax advisors and financial advisors (I know this is slightly off topic) are the worst people on the planet!

When dealing with them you should always ask for their personal assets list and print out of their recent bank statements  :laugh:

If they have nothing other than a cheap suit a car and house on credit , who are they to advise you when they are penniless themselves. And most are  :laugh:


Offline Manny

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Re: Living off stock returns in the FSU - What do I need to be aware of?
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2015, 09:21:34 AM »
Quite a few Swedish guys live in the Baltics. Wouldn't it be simpler to utilise Swedbank (which is also in the Baltics), swallow the withholding taxes in Sweden, and be a 'tourist'?

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Re: Living off stock returns in the FSU - What do I need to be aware of?
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2015, 09:54:06 AM »
Well tax advisors and financial advisors (I know this is slightly off topic) are the worst people on the planet!

When dealing with them you should always ask for their personal assets list and print out of their recent bank statements  :laugh:

If they have nothing other than a cheap suit a car and house on credit , who are they to advise you when they are penniless themselves. And most are  :laugh:

This reminds me of a story I had about a conversation I had with a friend. The topic was bookkeepers and tax return specialists. I told him that bookkeepers do NOT work for us but rather the IRS. I told him that that the IRS intimidates these professions with removal of their licenses and possible prosecution that their job, as they see it, is to collect the maximum revenue for government and to cover their a$s. So they are hesitant about using deductions and certain business expenses and look into every nook and cranny for additional income. I told him I remembered my bookkeeper would send me e-mails on our conversations and what she done with delivery confirmed to her if I opened it. He thought it over for a while and later told me that I was absolutely right.

I've also read expats got to beware of other expats who befriend them in order to acts as informants to the tax collectors. There is percentage bounty offered to them. Now that is about as low as one can go.