Russian subs could take out the internet

[Tom Cat]

Really this is news. 

Here is the western side

Russian Ships Near Data Cables Are Too Close for U.S. Comfort

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/10/26/world/europe/russian-presence-near-undersea-cables-concerns-us.html?referer=&_r=0

Here is the Russian side.

The Next Russia Scare: Their Subs Sailing Too Close to Internet Cables

The Russians are after your internet!!

http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/next-russia-scare-their-subs-sailing-too-close-internet-cables/ri10746

[msmoby]

BBC series Spooks - series7 - episode 2 ... ''Split Loyalties''

There is a Russian submarine in British waters, and deduces its intention to carry out a cyber attack via a submarine communications cable

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split_Loyalties

[Manny]

Russian submarines and spy ships are aggressively operating near the vital undersea cables

One wonders how exactly a submarine might behave "aggressively" near a cable laid on the sea floor.

[Markje]

Russian submarines and spy ships are aggressively operating near the vital undersea cables

One wonders how exactly a submarine might behave "aggressively" near a cable laid on the sea floor.

The headlines are completely false when you read the article.

Apparently, the Yanks are scared the russians are trying to map the 'secret' cables for military intelligence that are not listed on any known internet-cable-plan.

Exactly what the USA did years ago and succesfully tapped the kremlins military net.

Propaganda much?

Mark.

[andrewfi]

Russian submarines and spy ships are aggressively operating near the vital undersea cables

One wonders how exactly a submarine might behave "aggressively" near a cable laid on the sea floor.

If it is a Russian submarine then aggressive behaviour occurs any time that the propellers turn.

Being in dry dock in Saint Petersburg is aggression upon NATO forces.

[Markje]

Russian submarines and spy ships are aggressively operating near the vital undersea cables

One wonders how exactly a submarine might behave "aggressively" near a cable laid on the sea floor.

If it is a Russian submarine then aggressive behaviour occurs any time that the propellers turn.

Being in dry dock in Saint Petersburg is aggression upon NATO forces.

I can just feel those cables being scared right here. Those subs, so close... darn. If the Russians really wanted trouble, they could just do it in the middle of the atlantic, where no american boats are there to observe them....  Cut all 3 of them in the atlantic, and America's internet would grind to service other continents. That means OH NO!!! FACEBOOK WOULD BE DOWN... to WAR!

[andrewfi]

Back in the days when I worked on a newspaper, not as a reporter, sometimes we'd see that there was an effort to maintain a story, to keep it in the public eye. This was before the WWW, although the Internet existed in some universities.

Anyway, when the editorial team wanted to keep a story alive they'd publish something, anything, that allowed them to use the key words and phrases that applied to the ongoing story. Often the stories were nothing, puff pieces, but they allowed the use of the phrases and allowed the story to have space in front of readers' eyeballs.

That's what is happening here. The news/entertainment media have only had nothingness for a few days - there's not a lot being published about US exploits in the Middle East, Ukraine is on the back burner while Poroshenko decides how to further eviscerate the country that he is, nominally, the leader of and sure as shit nobody in the West wants to lead with stories about how Syria is rolling back the rebel alliance across its deserts.

So, we get rubbish pieces that enable writers and thought leaders to keep the tension up among their audiences, audiences who will demonstrate their lack of critical analysis skills by swallowing these stories.

Later today we will probably start to see the reports of the valiant crew of the Lassen as they skirted, but never crossed the 12 mile limit around the artificial islands in the South China Sea. Memoryholed will be the stories of mighty USA imposing its will upon the evil yellow menace that lurks there.

On that topic it was interesting to see the story getting walked back over the course of the late US news cycle running into today. Yesterday we had the mighty US Navy imposing its will upon the Chinese, demonstrating that they could go anywhere at any time. Then we had the Chinese saying (and quite obviously meaning it) that if the US Navy were so silly as to go within 12 miles that they'd experience a world of hurt.
Now, this morning, Europe time, we have the reality. The US stayed outside the 12 mile limit; the Chinese huffed and puffed, but did nothing, and to top it off the US are now saying that they will be doing the same around Vietnamese and Philippine artificial islands and reefs.

I wonder at what time the order went out to NOT infringe upon the 12 mile limit?

Whether I approve or not of the Chinese and USAian positions in this regard is immaterial; but for sure the standing of the US just took another shoeing to the nuts overnight.
Guys, learn from the Russians - don't say it unless you will do it! Right now the world sees the US as having blinked AGAIN!

***Well, it seems that there is conflicting information about the activities of the Lassen and her escorting aircraft. WSJ is now saying that the Lassen did go within 12 nautical miles of one of the islands. Let us see what happens. For the US to NOT infringe upon China's limit would be a certain sign of weakness and hence, from the USAian perspective, not at all good - as I noted above. After recent embarrassments in the Middle East to not have followed through on her commitment would have been a political disaster for the US. However, if the Lassen has gone within China's limit then there will be a price to pay for the US - probably not a tit for tat retaliation but an asymmetric and possible disproportionate reply - China's leadership needs to do that for its internal strength.

[msmoby]

The US stayed outside the 12 mile limit...


Guys, learn from the Russians - don't say it unless you will do it! Right now the world sees the US as having blinked AGAIN!

Could we have a source, for your news, please  ?

I ask as RT, al-Jazeera, and even Chinanews agencies seem to differ..and the US State Dept used the words ' within' ...

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-10/27/c_134755011.htm

''BEIJING, Oct. 27 (Xinhua) -- A U.S. warship sailed within 12 nautical miles of Chinese islands in South China Sea on Tuesday in a flagrant -- and baseless -- provocation against China's legitimate rights in the body of water.''

[Tom Cat]

South China Sea tensions: US declares right to fly, sail anywhere intl law allows

https://www.rt.com/news/319888-us-china-sail-anywhere/

[andrewfi]

Moby, if you are going to ask a question or try to make a point it might really help you if you bother to read my post from start to finish.

Sometimes even your trolling is as lazy as it is dishonest. 

[Tom Cat]

This CNN article explains the reason for the alarm. 
(Quote)
officials said. While the Russians have insisted the Yantar is not a spy ship, U.S. naval intelligence believes it has one significant and unsettling capability: small underwater vehicles that can cut vital undersea cables carrying vast amounts of commercial and military data, voice communications and Internet service between the U.S. and Europe

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/28/politics/russian-submarine-expansion-atlantic/

[andrewfi]

This CNN article explains the reason for the alarm. 
(Quote)
officials said. While the Russians have insisted the Yantar is not a spy ship, U.S. naval intelligence believes it has one significant and unsettling capability: small underwater vehicles that can cut vital undersea cables carrying vast amounts of commercial and military data, voice communications and Internet service between the U.S. and Europe

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/28/politics/russian-submarine-expansion-atlantic/

So, again, unnamed 'officials' making unproveable claims, relying upon an unlinked second hand report from a third party for corroboration. The only named personnel quoted had no connection to the story or relevance to it.

From the information provided in this piece it could be entirely a work of fiction.

I have been using the term news/entertainment media, I should maybe update to entertainment/news.

[msmoby]

In relation to andrew suggesting the USN vessel did NOT sail within the PRC's '12 mile limit'

Moby, if you are going to ask a question or try to make a point it might really help you if you bother to read my post from start to finish.

andrewfi - rather than suggest 'trolling' - why don't you simply show us where I'm 'wrong' in suggesting your claim that the US, China et all are 'dishonest' is stating how close the vessel sailed to the Spratleys ?.....

[Markje]

In relation to andrew suggesting the USN vessel did NOT sail within the PRC's '12 mile limit'

Moby, if you are going to ask a question or try to make a point it might really help you if you bother to read my post from start to finish.

andrewfi - rather than suggest 'trolling' - why don't you simply show us where I'm 'wrong' in suggesting your claim that the US, China et all are 'dishonest' is stating how close the vessel sailed to the Spratleys ?.....

In the last paragraph, just as andrew stated.

***Well, it seems that there is conflicting information about the activities of the Lassen and her escorting aircraft. WSJ is now saying that the Lassen did go within 12 nautical miles of one of the islands. Let us see what happens. For the US to NOT infringe upon China's limit would be a certain sign of weakness and hence, from the USAian perspective, not at all good - as I noted above. After recent embarrassments in the Middle East to not have followed through on her commitment would have been a political disaster for the US. However, if the Lassen has gone within China's limit then there will be a price to pay for the US - probably not a tit for tat retaliation but an asymmetric and possible disproportionate reply - China's leadership needs to do that for its internal strength.

[andrewfi]

Markje, if we keep on pandering to moby's foibles then he is never likely to improve his behaviour.

He could have read for himself; although I rather think he already knew he was in the wrong but simply chose dishonesty as a practiced and customary behaviour pattern.

[msmoby]

In the last paragraph, just as andrew stated.

***Well, it seems that there is conflicting information about the activities of the Lassen and her escorting aircraft. WSJ is now saying that the Lassen did go within 12 nautical miles of one of the islands. Let us see what happens. For the US to NOT infringe upon China's limit would be a certain sign of weakness and hence, from the USAian perspective, not at all good - as I noted above. After recent embarrassments in the Middle East to not have followed through on her commitment would have been a political disaster for the US. However, if the Lassen has gone within China's limit then there will be a price to pay for the US - probably not a tit for tat retaliation but an asymmetric and possible disproportionate reply - China's leadership needs to do that for its internal strength.

Markje,

Please note what andrewfi claimed - his 'lecturing' me when I asked for his 'source' and the timing of his climb down..



Even if the Chinese say otherwise .... as andrewfi said, ''don't say it unless you will do it! Right now the world sees the US as having blinked AGAIN!''

Of course he tells us he is never 'wrong' ....... Now he'll blame his 'sources' ...

[msmoby]

Now the Brits ... who have no maritime search aircraft - are relying on allies to look for a Submarine spotted off Scotland



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34896956


RAF search after 'Russian submarine spotted off Scotland