Being Russian is not just a matter of where one is born

[GuppyCaptain]

The way I see it is she chooses to remember the good times. She chooses to present them to yankee that way. But she probably can recall standing in a line for T.P.

I am about make a trip report (in 5 weeks 5 days). I am thinking of making two. One that emphases all the good aspects of Georgia and the other that gets into the nitty gritty of the negative aspects of the place. I wouldn't see that the later makes the former dishonest. Frankly it makes for good mental heath to concentrate on the good and push off the bad and keep them separate in mind and word.

She never had to stand in line nor her mother.

Then her family was part of the very small "elite" minority. For most of us under communism the situation was vastly different. Certainly my family's was.

[Orchid]

Finally you will agree that other people may have life experiences that are different than you.  You seem to have modified your opinion from "very small "elite" minority" to "the upper echelon of society".  Still don't know what you define as the upper echelon is.  Perhaps you mean educated?

He definitely knows what he is talking about. I understand him clearly.
"Very small "elite" minority" and "the upper echelon of society" was a top of communist's party throughout the country .
They had special food delivery when the rest of SU was spending a half of day(every day!) in line for one kg of "kolbasa".
They had separate hospitals and rehabilitation centers in the South when the rest was struggling to get "free" healthcare.
They had government cars when the majority could not afford it.
For example, to apply for MD program you would need to have local Communist party approval. The same was for lawyers and historians.
Many books were prohibited. They were in special section in libraries. To get permission from communists to read them was almost impossible.
For reading those books without permission you would be in jail.
Scientists were in poverty with exception who worked for space and military purpose.
I could continue this list, but I was afraid you would get tired.....

[yankee]

Finally you will agree that other people may have life experiences that are different than you.  You seem to have modified your opinion from "very small "elite" minority" to "the upper echelon of society".  Still don't know what you define as the upper echelon is.  Perhaps you mean educated?

He definitely knows what he is talking about. I understand him clearly.
"Very small "elite" minority" and "the upper echelon of society" was a top of communist's party throughout the country .
They had special food delivery when the rest of SU was spending a half of day(every day!) in line for one kg of "kolbasa".
They had separate hospitals and rehabilitation centers in the South when the rest was struggling to get "free" healthcare.
They had government cars when the majority could not afford it.
For example, to apply for MD program you would need to have local Communist party approval. The same was for lawyers and historians.
Many books were prohibited. They were in special section in libraries. To get permission from communists to read them was almost impossible.
For reading those books without permission you would be in jail.
Scientists were in poverty with exception who worked for space and military purpose.
I could continue this list, but I was afraid you would get tired.....

I don't argue with what you say nor do I deny it.  It is from your experiences that you relate to.  So you should allow other people to express their opinions even if they differ from yours.

[Orchid]

I don't argue with what you say nor do I deny it.  It is from your experiences that you relate to.  So you should allow other people to express their opinions even if they differ from yours.

I am not a moderator. You can say what ever you want.
I have no power to remove your posts or words from your post.
But, like GC, I'm not holding my breathe anymore.

[Volshe]

I have a better idea for a best seller Volshe.  You can make a photo calendar of yourself.  We can call it twelve months with Stefanovich.  Shall we provide the audience with an illustration?   

Thanks for following me on social media (i guess)

[Volshe]

Volshe, Omega1982 and Justmd have valid points. If you want to include only those who have personal experience of Russia/FSU (and satellites) past than that would include you and Guppy Captain. Andrew has no personal experience, not even a significant other so he literally, like myself, has no personal experience with Russia/FSU's past. Manny, Moby, leslied and Markje are all connected to Russia/FSU only by wives or significant others. Again they can't speak from personal experience about Russia/FSU's past.

So by all means lets restrict the conversation to just those with personal experience of Russia/FSU's past. Everyone will leave you and GuppyCaptain alone to speak. Perhaps Orchid will drop by, or has it been decided she's not from Russia or the FSU (discussion from another thread)?

I stood in lines in FSU. I didn't mind. (My first long stay there without my family, as an exchange student was during those times when there were lines.)
You know, Westy, life is mostly NOT a 70+ y old coffee brake, at least not for majority of humanity. And? So, i stood in lines on -20 C to get to post office or to buy something or whatever the line was for. I could have opted out, very simply (by calling anyone from our Embassy to get me to diplomatic shops, i had dipl. passport and enough money), but i didn't want to, i wanted to live as an average student from FSU... Guess what, it didn't kill me, it gave me stuff to think about and to write about. You are right though, it's one person's experience, i believe a single mother of 2-3 with full time job wasn't so keen on social experimenting, but,  i can only speak for myself and of my own experience. 

[Volshe]

Finally you will agree that other people may have life experiences that are different than you.  You seem to have modified your opinion from "very small "elite" minority" to "the upper echelon of society".  Still don't know what you define as the upper echelon is.  Perhaps you mean educated?

He definitely knows what he is talking about. I understand him clearly.
"Very small "elite" minority" and "the upper echelon of society" was a top of communist's party throughout the country .

Not only. Everyone who was well-positioned.  It could be anyone working at warehouse, a butcher, a doctor, an actor/actress... Anyone whose services were in demand by many and who could in return ask those others for favors of all kinds. If you extract money from any given today's society - the principle is the same. Some sell/ trade looks, some sell books... I guess an ideal society would be different, but such society would require (almost) ideal people 

Also, Orchid, i get it that probably you compare FSU with modern-day USA... Not to forget that the former was the last country in Europe to abolish slavery/serfdom, and we are speaking in that discourse, where a female grand-child of a (literally) slave with zero rights in tzarist Russia in SSSR had right to education, work, free medicine and so on... It is a giant leap forward. I think it was far from perfect, but in those terms, for majority, it was progress. One more generation and you are pretty much free to do whatever you want, including relocating to USA  (And i get it that everyone is fixated on whatever they individually perceive as their personal lack, but if we look at things from philosophical distance... It ain't that bad, to the contrary )

p.s. люблю тебя, не обижайся, что у меня немного другое мнение, ладно?

[leslied]

MODERATOR COMMENT

I tried a gentle approach to bring civility to this thread.  It did not work.

Now the offensive posts since my last comment are deleted. 

People have different recollections of life in Soviet times.  ALL those recollections are valid.

Please post on topic from now on and no personal insults.

Otherwise I will close this thread.

[Justmd]

One evening while in Kazakhstan having dinner with my wife and her Russian mother, I asked her what it was like for her to live under the former USSR (my wife had to translate since she spoke no english) I told her I only asked because history is interesting to me....she said it was very difficult. I asked again why (the wife translated) she said food and work was hard to find but the military had the best of everything. She then said to me that I should not ask such questions and concern myself with taking care of her oldest daughter and her grandson.

True Russian reply.

They both made Meatball soup that evening...was crazy good!

[DJ_Fresh]

Totally agree with the above points. My girlfriend was born in Almaty but she's more Russian than Kazakh.

[msmoby]

Sadly, all too often Russians can be heard to observe that 'Russians' from the Stans and even Baltic states are not truly Russian - I suspect the tide of nationalistic fervour has reduced this - especially if you look Slavic...