Russian Interest Rates and Economy

[NS1]

Only Andrew can insult our female members without consequences.
Gotta love it, for all of the changes, somethings never change

[Steveboy]

Orchid, I think you are not Russian.

And who the hell you are to decide my nationality???
Think about yours, Пустомеля !!!

  Ooooo a fight coming up

[andrewfi]

No, there's no fight.

Orchid simply has been very badly misinformed to the extent that it makes one question her basic knowledge of the country from which she tells us she comes.

For example, Steve, you have not lived in the UK for a while, but you are aware of the existence of the NHS, yes?
You do understand that UK citizens don't pay to see the doctor, yes?

Well, Orchid is making claims, as you have read, that are along the lines of you telling us that the NHS closed down and was replaced by a private health system.

I am sure that if you told us something of that sort you would expect to be queried about it, yes?

I am interested to learn from Orchid about these changes to the Russian pension and health system.

[Annushka]

I bring to your attention the recent changes to the Criminal Code of Russia.
I would highly recommend to remove the word "dictator" from your vocabulary.
In accordance with the new trends, you will face, at best, a heavy fine.

[Personal insult removed]
All you both can do is to intimidate!!!
Nobody afraid of your new old trend.
It is crystal clear that this trend will bring Russia to isolation from the world.
It is already half way done.

О, как вас понесло, my dear!

Unlike you, I regularly read Twitter feed. And, accordingly, watch for changes in the legislation of the Russian Federation.
However, you should keep in mind the Constitution of Russia. I can assure you: the main law operates in Russia!

http://constitution.kremlin.ru/

Статья 38
1. Материнство и детство, семья находятся под защитой государства.

2. Забота о детях, их воспитание — равное право и обязанность родителей.

3. Трудоспособные дети, достигшие 18 лет, должны заботиться о нетрудоспособных родителях.

Статья 39
1. Каждому гарантируется социальное обеспечение по возрасту, в случае болезни, инвалидности, потери кормильца, для воспитания детей и в иных случаях, установленных законом.

2. Государственные пенсии и социальные пособия устанавливаются законом.

3. Поощряются добровольное социальное страхование, создание дополнительных форм социального обеспечения и благотворительность.

Статья 40
1. Каждый имеет право на жилище. Никто не может быть произвольно лишен жилища.

2. Органы государственной власти и органы местного самоуправления поощряют жилищное строительство, создают условия для осуществления права на жилище.

3. Малоимущим, иным указанным в законе гражданам, нуждающимся в жилище, оно предоставляется бесплатно или за доступную плату из государственных, муниципальных и других жилищных фондов в соответствии с установленными законом нормами.

Статья 41
1. Каждый имеет право на охрану здоровья и медицинскую помощь. Медицинская помощь в государственных и муниципальных учреждениях здравоохранения оказывается гражданам бесплатно за счет средств соответствующего бюджета, страховых взносов, других поступлений.

2. В Российской Федерации финансируются федеральные программы охраны и укрепления здоровья населения, принимаются меры по развитию государственной, муниципальной, частной систем здравоохранения, поощряется деятельность, способствующая укреплению здоровья человека, развитию физической культуры и спорта, экологическому и санитарно-эпидемиологическому благополучию.

3. Сокрытие должностными лицами фактов и обстоятельств, создающих угрозу для жизни и здоровья людей, влечет за собой ответственность в соответствии с федеральным законом.

Статья 42
Каждый имеет право на благоприятную окружающую среду, достоверную информацию о ее состоянии и на возмещение ущерба, причиненного его здоровью или имуществу экологическим правонарушением.

Статья 43
1. Каждый имеет право на образование.

2. Гарантируются общедоступность и бесплатность дошкольного, основного общего и среднего профессионального образования в государственных или муниципальных образовательных учреждениях и на предприятиях.

3. Каждый вправе на конкурсной основе бесплатно получить высшее образование в государственном или муниципальном образовательном учреждении и на предприятии.

4. Основное общее образование обязательно. Родители или лица, их заменяющие, обеспечивают получение детьми основного общего образования.

5. Российская Федерация устанавливает федеральные государственные образовательные стандарты, поддерживает различные формы образования и самообразования.

Статья 44
1. Каждому гарантируется свобода литературного, художественного, научного, технического и других видов творчества, преподавания. Интеллектуальная собственность охраняется законом.

2. Каждый имеет право на участие в культурной жизни и пользование учреждениями культуры, на доступ к культурным ценностям.

3. Каждый обязан заботиться о сохранении исторического и культурного наследия, беречь памятники истории и культуры.

Статья 45
1. Государственная защита прав и свобод человека и гражданина в Российской Федерации гарантируется.

2. Каждый вправе защищать свои права и свободы всеми способами, не запрещенными законом.

Статья 46
1. Каждому гарантируется судебная защита его прав и свобод.

2. Решения и действия (или бездействие) органов государственной власти, органов местного самоуправления, общественных объединений и должностных лиц могут быть обжалованы в суд.

3. Каждый вправе в соответствии с международными договорами Российской Федерации обращаться в межгосударственные органы по защите прав и свобод человека, если исчерпаны все имеющиеся внутригосударственные средства правовой защиты.

[NS1]

No, there's no fight.

Orchid simply has been very badly misinformed to the extent that it makes one question her basic knowledge of the country from which she tells us she comes.

For example, Steve, you have not lived in the UK for a while, but you are aware of the existence of the NHS, yes?
You do understand that UK citizens don't pay to see the doctor, yes?

Well, Orchid is making claims, as you have read, that are along the lines of you telling us that the NHS closed down and was replaced by a private health system.

I am sure that if you told us something of that sort you would expect to be queried about it, yes?

I am interested to learn from Orchid about these changes to the Russian pension and health system.

Andrew, Yes free health care, same also in Ukraine.
See this is where not going, dating or being directly involved with someone,
gives you less understanding. Same as free school for kids
You get quicker, better care when you pay for it.
Or you can lay in a bed in hallway for several weeks in pain waiting for surgery.

You also pay for many things to do with a child's education, that
is paid for in the west.

[Orchid]

The ancient icons on the market you can buy for 1000 rubles. It's about $15.
19th century samovar in excellent shape costed 6000 rubles.
The cheapest ticket for ballet and opera was 300 rubles. It's about $4.
It says that history is not valued.
I do not understand how theater can survive with prices like this.
But I bought grocery and alcohol to invite couple friends for dinner and spent 4000 rubles.

[Orchid]

Andrew, Yes free health care, same also in Ukraine.
See this is where not going, dating or being directly involved with someone,
gives you less understanding. Same as free school for kids
You get quicker, better care when you pay for it.
Or you can lay in a bed in hallway for several weeks in pain waiting for surgery.

You also pay for many things to do with a child's education, that
is paid for in the west.

Instead of saying the truth and openly discuss the problems Russians praise the president and curse America and Germany.
I saw something like this only during soviet time. Clear sign of dictatorship.
I wanted to buy a stacking doll with American presidents. I bought some five years ago. It was a real fun!
When I was asking for this stacking doll, the sellers looked scared and asked me if I am crazy.
By the way.... many young Russian women asked me how to find a husband abroad.
Looks like they are more ready now to leave the country.

[GuppyCaptain]

Andrew, Yes free health care, same also in Ukraine.
See this is where not going, dating or being directly involved with someone,
gives you less understanding. Same as free school for kids
You get quicker, better care when you pay for it.
Or you can lay in a bed in hallway for several weeks in pain waiting for surgery.

You also pay for many things to do with a child's education, that
is paid for in the west.

Instead of saying the truth and openly discuss the problems Russians praise the president and curse America and Germany.
I saw something like this only during soviet time. Clear sign of dictatorship.
I wanted to buy a stacking doll with American presidents. I bought some five years ago. It was a real fun!
When I was asking for this stacking doll, the sellers looked scared and asked me if I am crazy.
By the way.... many young Russian women asked me how to find a husband abroad.
Looks like they are more ready now to leave the country.

Tell them you know of a handsome (very questionable) and charming man from Pennsylvania that is open to the idea of an international marriage. 

[Steveboy]

Andrew, Yes free health care, same also in Ukraine.
See this is where not going, dating or being directly involved with someone,
gives you less understanding. Same as free school for kids
You get quicker, better care when you pay for it.
Or you can lay in a bed in hallway for several weeks in pain waiting for surgery.

You also pay for many things to do with a child's education, that
is paid for in the west.

Instead of saying the truth and openly discuss the problems Russians praise the president and curse America and Germany.
I saw something like this only during soviet time. Clear sign of dictatorship.
I wanted to buy a stacking doll with American presidents. I bought some five years ago. It was a real fun!
When I was asking for this stacking doll, the sellers looked scared and asked me if I am crazy.
By the way.... many young Russian women asked me how to find a husband abroad.
Looks like they are more ready now to leave the country.

Tell them you know of a handsome (very questionable) and charming man from Pennsylvania that is open to the idea of an international marriage. 

Lots are more than willing to leave the country, but less than you think. BUT unfortunately  most realise after they start communicating with foreigners , that the best option is to stay in Russia   

[andrewfi]

Orchid, nobody, least of all me, expects you to be criticizing the place that you now call home but to be mistakenly writing stuff that is untrue about where you came from does you no favors and helps nobody.

NS1, it is usual to get better, faster, when you pay for it - I have private health care, I can afford it and I like the convenience but that does not mean that the National Health Service in the UK charges its patients, no more than in Russia. However, that is not the point. Orchid was making a claim, well several of them, that are simply not true.

I am wiling to give her the benefit of the doubt and suggest that she was very poorly informed about how money works and forgetful when it comes to certain other matters. However, there is no need for she, or anyone else to get bolshy with me because SHE was getting her facts wrong.

[GuppyCaptain]

Andrew, Yes free health care, same also in Ukraine.
See this is where not going, dating or being directly involved with someone,
gives you less understanding. Same as free school for kids
You get quicker, better care when you pay for it.
Or you can lay in a bed in hallway for several weeks in pain waiting for surgery.

You also pay for many things to do with a child's education, that
is paid for in the west.

Instead of saying the truth and openly discuss the problems Russians praise the president and curse America and Germany.
I saw something like this only during soviet time. Clear sign of dictatorship.
I wanted to buy a stacking doll with American presidents. I bought some five years ago. It was a real fun!
When I was asking for this stacking doll, the sellers looked scared and asked me if I am crazy.
By the way.... many young Russian women asked me how to find a husband abroad.
Looks like they are more ready now to leave the country.

Tell them you know of a handsome (very questionable) and charming man from Pennsylvania that is open to the idea of an international marriage. 

Lots are more than willing to leave the country, but less than you think. BUT unfortunately  most realise after they start communicating with foreigners , that the best option is to stay in Russia 

Wow! You're on a roll today. Can you get anymore negative towards foreigners, westerners, Americans? I sense a lot of pent up tension and hostility there, Stevie Boy.

[Manny]

The ancient icons on the market you can buy for 1000 rubles. It's about $15.

Fake ones cost that. Originals cost much more. I used to import some icons.

19th century samovar in excellent shape costed 6000 rubles.

This must be a rural place. Even old electric samovars cost more than that now.

But I bought grocery and alcohol to invite couple friends for dinner and spent 4000 rubles.

That seems about right.

[AvHdB]

I am wiling to give her the benefit of the doubt and suggest that she was very poorly informed about how money works and forgetful when it comes to certain other matters. However, there is no need for she, or anyone else to get bolshy with me because SHE was getting her facts wrong.

The only contributer to this thread that is "bolshy" is you Andrew.

Man up and make amends, not half ass excuses for your ignorance. Personally I doubt you have even half the gonads to do this.

I will not hold my breath.

[AvHdB]

The ancient icons on the market you can buy for 1000 rubles. It's about $15.

Fake ones cost that. Originals cost much more. I used to import some icons.

Manny is correct, understand an icon has a prototype that dates back centuries. It is a copy of a copy done mostly by monks.

The forgeries are amazing and scary. I have a very hard time telling the difference and do not deal in this field.

[Manny]

Also on healthcare, both are right.

Yes, its designed to be free at the point of delivery like the NHS. Quality varies greatly, as does the necessity for bribes to get anything done. Its very much the luck of the draw. In many places you still have to bribe the doctors to do what they are paid for, but not all. My MIL had an illness some time back, we made funds available for any backhanders that were necessary to get her treatment. As it goes, it never cropped up. Her treatment - if a tad archaic by western standards - went OK and she got better. No big delays, no big bribes, just the odd box of chocolates or something here and there.

But I do know if you are unlucky, you will be bled dry from bribes to get heathcare. Its simply a lottery in that regard. Andrew is speaking about how it is designed to be, Orchid on how it is in where she is from. But not all Russia is like that. It is slowly changing.

[andrewfi]

Manny, I understand your attempt to be a mediator.

However, the fact that bribes are still, but less commonly, paid is not germane. A claim of fact was made: that it costs certain amounts of money to get treatment for certain illnesses. That is not true.

The claims made by Orchid, that I checked, were factually incorrect. That's not a matter of opinion, but of verifiable fact.

If she had made a point about folks paying bribes then, yes, quite a few, but not all, give gifts or pay extras. The payments are not necessary to get treatment and most importantly are NOT part of the system. Her post gave a very misleading picture; querying and correcting it was a sensible thing to do.

Her claims about pensions were factually incorrect in several points.

And, well, she is very lucky to be getting the interest rates on deposits that she is getting because punters in real banks ain't getting those incredible figures.

[Orchid]

The ancient icons on the market you can buy for 1000 rubles. It's about $15.

Fake ones cost that. Originals cost much more. I used to import some icons.

19th century samovar in excellent shape costed 6000 rubles.

This must be a rural place. Even old electric samovars cost more than that now.

But I bought grocery and alcohol to invite couple friends for dinner and spent 4000 rubles.

That seems about right.

I do not have much time to do thorough research. I am giving you these links to take a look. It is a sale on-line. You will find different prices.
On the open air market prices are very low because people want money now.

Samovar 5000 R
https://www.avito.ru/rostov-na-donu/kollektsionirovanie/samovary_starinnye_607596132

Icon for 6000 R
https://www.avito.ru/rostov-na-donu/kollektsionirovanie/starinnaya_ikona_isus_hristos_495170097

Icon for 3000 R
https://www.avito.ru/rostov-na-donu/kollektsionirovanie/starinnaya_ikona_214491371

[andrewfi]

I am wiling to give her the benefit of the doubt and suggest that she was very poorly informed about how money works and forgetful when it comes to certain other matters. However, there is no need for she, or anyone else to get bolshy with me because SHE was getting her facts wrong.

The only contributer to this thread that is "bolshy" is you Andrew.

Man up and make amends, not half ass excuses for your ignorance. Personally I doubt you have even half the gonads to do this.

I will not hold my breath.

Please, show me where I am factually incorrect. We have been down this road before remember. You know what happens - I don't post this stuff unless I am right.
You can check for yourself, this is not a secret, you can even do the reading in English.

Get back to me with your apology later.

[Manny]

However, the fact that bribes are still, but less commonly, paid is not germane. A claim of fact was made: that it costs certain amounts of money to get treatment for certain illnesses. That is not true.

It is not so black and white.

It is true if you are in the wrong town or the wrong hospital, you will pay the bent doctor or die. If you are lucky, it will cost £0 and it will feel like the NHS in the UK. She isn't wrong if she is citing her experience. Dig out an old (circa 2006/2007) topic here by Gorky Guy to see the worst. We were lucky that my MIL did OK. But both extremes *do* exist.

The payments are not necessary to get treatment and most importantly are NOT part of the system. Her post gave a very misleading picture; querying and correcting it was a sensible thing to do.

In some places, the payments/bribes are necessary to get treatment. Dont pay? Die. Simples. If that is part of the official system is irrelevant.

Someone like Moby, who is like a dog with a bone, would exert great effort on principle, bypass it and expose it, and get it fixed (as he did with Ford). Russia changes because of people who do that. But the average Russian? He will just pay. Coz that is how life can be there.

Many who fight that system will be the most principled bloke in the morgue.

When MIL got sick, wifey explained to me in great depth what may happen with the system in Russia if we were unlucky, and how it worked. As it goes, MIL got lucky and encountered honest doctors who were happy to do their job. Had it have gone the other way, paying them off to fix her would have been cheaper than importing her to the UK to get fixed. My choices would have been import MIL to the UK @ £10k+ or bribe the Russian ones @ circa £2k. The bribe would have been cheaper and faster. As it goes, we got lucky and paid £0.

And, well, she is very lucky to be getting the interest rates on deposits that she is getting because punters in real banks ain't getting those incredible figures.

Which interest rate? The 3%?

[andrewfi]

Manny, I can not sit here and honestly write that there are NO doctors in Russia who will let a patient die because they don't pay money. I can say that I know it is not general practice.

However, that was not what she was saying though is it?
Orchid was going on about a hospital system where treatment was in a payment basis and she gave us a scale of fees.

That is simply not correct.

Orchid did not tell us about paying bribes she told us how much money it costs for treatment.
Treatment in Russia costs NOTHING!
But some people feel they need to pay bribes, they are paying bribes, not paying for treatment.

What you have us a system that like the UK is free at the point of delivery (there may be exceptions as in the UK but that's not the point here). In Russia you have some corruption of the system.

You know something, here in Estonia some people still think it necessary to pay money, give gifts to doctors. I am certain that some welcome the gifts, some, I know, refuse them. But the habit of giving is an historic one that will take generations to die out. However, I know, from experience, that if I suggest that giving 'gifts' is unnecessary that I will be told that death or other misfortune is the result of not doing so. But not everyone pays these, well, bribes is the wrong word because one gets nothing for the payment or gift.

The interest rates to which I referred to were the 3% and 12% available for savers in dollars and rubles respectively.

[Manny]

I do not have much time to do thorough research. I am giving you these links to take a look. It is a sale on-line. You will find different prices.
On the open air market prices are very low because people want money now.

Samovar 5000 R
https://www.avito.ru/rostov-na-donu/kollektsionirovanie/samovary_starinnye_607596132

Icon for 6000 R
https://www.avito.ru/rostov-na-donu/kollektsionirovanie/starinnaya_ikona_isus_hristos_495170097

Icon for 3000 R
https://www.avito.ru/rostov-na-donu/kollektsionirovanie/starinnaya_ikona_214491371

Thanks for the links.

On the Samovar, I'd be surprised to see that one with the figures at that money @ 5000 pyb. The ad is a little ambiguous to me if you get *that* samovar or other ones he has *from* 5000 pyb (unless I read it wrong). But that one at that money, from Rostov, buy it, I'll pay tracked shipping to the UK and £25 on top. 

On the icons, the one of Jesus is a recent art student fake. That particular image you don't really see in Orthodox icons.

The one with the metal relief, I'd need to see closer and the photo doesn't blow up. Its doubtful it is 19th century and more likely a fake at the money.

Icons are a fake industry akin to handbags or Rolexes. There is cheap crap and some really good stuff out there that fools experts. Russia is really good at fake icons. REALLY good. Every man and his dog has supposedly real ones. They are so numerous that the better fakes carry an elevated value simply as good pieces of art.

In the early 00's I watched a chap I know import three "Russian" ones he paid £40 each for from Estonia, with Ministry of Whatever export paperwork (£20), and he put them in Sothebys in London to suck it and see. The icon "experts" there were unsure. One did over a grand. The other two over £500 each. I think all were fake. When asked, the bloke they came from shrugged, and said, "good, no?"

[AvHdB]

Please, show me where I am factually incorrect. We have been down this road before remember. You know what happens - I don't post this stuff unless I am right.
You can check for yourself, this is not a secret, you can even do the reading in English.

Get back to me with your apology later.

Ever right Andrew. Your arrogance only proceeds your ignorance of the English language.

Admitted "bolshy" is perhaps not a common "English" word. It goes back in etymology* to Bolshevik  so it has a wonderful Russian foundation to your comments. And you are something of the communist in attitude.

So no apology for your ill bred behavior is forthcoming, but please feel free to take a long walk on a short pier.

* Because some words confuse Andrew and leave him befuddled; FYI etymology is the study of words and how the meaning changes over time.
 

[Tom Cat]

Manny, I can not sit here and honestly write that there are NO doctors in Russia who will let a patient die because they don't pay money. I can say that I know it is not general practice.

However, that was not what she was saying though is it?
Orchid was going on about a hospital system where treatment was in a payment basis and she gave us a scale of fees.

That is simply not correct.

Orchid did not tell us about paying bribes she told us how much money it costs for treatment.
Treatment in Russia costs NOTHING!
But some people feel they need to pay bribes, they are paying bribes, not paying for treatment.

What you have us a system that like the UK is free at the point of delivery (there may be exceptions as in the UK but that's not the point here). In Russia you have some corruption of the system.

You know something, here in Estonia some people still think it necessary to pay money, give gifts to doctors. I am certain that some welcome the gifts, some, I know, refuse them. But the habit of giving is an historic one that will take generations to die out. However, I know, from experience, that if I suggest that giving 'gifts' is unnecessary that I will be told that death or other misfortune is the result of not doing so. But not everyone pays these, well, bribes is the wrong word because one gets nothing for the payment or gift.

The interest rates to which I referred to were the 3% and 12% available for savers in dollars and rubles respectively.

Being an American with a Russian wife, my experience might not be the norm, but free health care for many in next to none existent.

In Putin’s Russia, Universal Health Care Is for All Who Pay

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-13/in-russia-universal-health-care-is-for-all-who-can-afford-it

[Manny]

Orchid was going on about a hospital system where treatment was in a payment basis and she gave us a scale of fees.

That is simply not correct.

Orchid did not tell us about paying bribes she told us how much money it costs for treatment.
Treatment in Russia costs NOTHING!
But some people feel they need to pay bribes, they are paying bribes, not paying for treatment.

What you have us a system that like the UK is free at the point of delivery (there may be exceptions as in the UK but that's not the point here). In Russia you have some corruption of the system.

She told us what it *costs*.

She didn't say if the *cost* was an official cost or bribe.

A sensible person might have asked a non-native speaker that question, or asked her to clarify, rather than proclaiming "untruth" at the first opportunity.

You are familiar with non-native English speaking women I think. You know that small details sometimes get lost in translation, and they use words in their lexicon to frame their thoughts, and one must sometimes seek clarification.

[Manny]

The interest rates to which I referred to were the 3% and 12% available for savers in dollars and rubles respectively.

I only looked on Sberbank.

10% on Rubles: https://www.sberbank.ru/en/individualclients/deposits/fixedtermdeposits

2.55% on $ here: http://russia.deposits.org/deposits/sberbank/

Her numbers are not too far away. One may better that with other banks, so she is probably on the ball.