NATO Invites Montenegro to Join.

[WestCoast]

NATO has formally invited Montenegro to join the military alliance. Montenegro is a small mountainous country on the Adriatic. It was part of the former Yugoslavia until it declared its independence in 2006.

http://news.yahoo.com/nato-invites-montenegro-become-29th-member-alliance-073612102.html

Moscow is against any expansion of NATO in eastern Europe. From the article:

Moscow opposes any NATO extension to former communist areas of eastern and southeastern Europe, part of an east-west struggle for influence over former Soviet satellites that is at the center of the crisis in Ukraine.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said in September that any expansion of NATO was "a mistake, even a provocation". In comments to Russian media then, he said NATO's so-called open door policy was "an irresponsible policy that undermines the determination to build a system of equal and shared security in Europe."

RIA news agency cited a Russian senator as saying on Wednesday that Russia will end joint projects with Montenegro if the ex-Communist country joins the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation. The Adriatic state of 650,000 people is expected to become a member formally next year.

Viktor Ozerov, head of the Russian Federation Council's defense and safety committee, said the projects which could be axed included those in military areas, RIA reported.

Now that Montenegro has been invited to join NATO will Russia start some territorial dispute that will impede or cancel the official ceremony which could be months in the future?

[sparky114]

Interesting since its only 16 years ago that the Nato Alliance Bombed that country 

[Volshe]

Now that Montenegro has been invited to join NATO will Russia start some territorial dispute that will impede or cancel the official ceremony which could be months in the future?

No, they won't and they don't have the ground to do so either. What dispute? We are an independent, sovereign country, never were part of commie block or anything. We love Russians though (of course that doesn't necessarily mean our political goals coincide.)

Interesting since its only 16 years ago that the Nato Alliance Bombed that country 

Yep... As they say, if you can't beat them - join them

[AvHdB]

As I understand the largest investor by country in Montenegro (means Black Mountains) is Russia based investors.

[Volshe]

As I understand the largest investor by country in Montenegro (means Black Mountains) is Russia based investors.

False, it's Germany (since 2000 about 170 million e per year) and Hungary (260 million e invested in country's infrastructure.) That's from the top of my head, but you can find exact data online. We were extremely unlucky with investors from Russia (Deripaska's dealings turned out to be disastrous, and so did Sergej Polonski's, nothing in it for us, only for couple of corrupted politicians who are being prosecuted as of now - Marovic clan and others.)
British Cubus Lux also doesn't meet the basic criteria, but turns out it's more difficult to kick out investors from Monte than to attract them 

[AvHdB]

As I understand the largest investor by country in Montenegro (means Black Mountains) is Russia based investors.

False, it's Germany (since 2000 about 170 million e per year) and Hungary (260 million e invested in country's infrastructure.) That's from the top of my head, but you can find exact data online. We were extremely unlucky with investors from Russia (Deripaska's dealings turned out to be disastrous, and so did Sergej Polonski's, nothing in it for us, only for couple of corrupted politicians who are being prosecuted as of now - Marovic clan and others.)
British Cubus Lux also doesn't meet the basic criteria, but turns out it's more difficult to kick out investors from Monte than to attract them 

I thought I read that Porto Montenegro was controlled by Deripaska? Also I recall reading the Kastela Marina north of Split (Croatia) refused Russian development funds.

[Volshe]

I thought I read that Porto Montenegro was controlled by Deripaska?

It's Munk's (Peter Munk). 

[AvHdB]

I thought I read that Porto Montenegro was controlled by Deripaska?

It's Munk's (Peter Munk). 

Never doubt the wisdom of women, you are indeed correct.

[Volshe]

I thought I read that Porto Montenegro was controlled by Deripaska?

It's Munk's (Peter Munk). 

Never doubt the wisdom of women, you are indeed correct.

Thank you, Av  Lol, it sounds cool, but i fear 'tis not wisdom, in this case it's that country is tiny so we all kinda know these things   

[Manny]

This made me laugh.

https://twitter.com/INTHENOWRT/status/672427886695940096

[Volshe]

This made me laugh.

 Manny, with deep respect and grand personal admiration for you:   





 

[andrewfi]

This made me laugh.

https://twitter.com/INTHENOWRT/status/672427886695940096

Kewl!

[Volshe]

This made me laugh.

https://twitter.com/INTHENOWRT/status/672427886695940096

Kewl!

  At you too, darling: 

[andrewfi]

Well, it is probably better to actually join NATO than to simply be a passive host of NATO forces in occupation in your country.

[Volshe]

Well, it is probably better to actually join NATO than to simply be a passive host of NATO forces in occupation in your country.

Andy, another close and wise friend of mine (also a foreigner, but with Russian roots, and friendly towards my country too) wrote on my fb: "when invited to a dinner like that, make sure you are not on the menu." I replied ours was the only way for us to be certain we are in fact not being a part of the menu! 

[andrewfi]

Well, it is probably better to actually join NATO than to simply be a passive host of NATO forces in occupation in your country.

Andy, another close and wise friend of mine (also a foreigner, but with Russian roots, and friendly towards my country too) wrote on my fb: "when invited to a dinner like that, make sure you are not on the menu." I replied ours was the only way for us to be certain we are in fact not being a part of the menu! 

Having committed the faux pas of joining the EU, yes. Joining the EU and not NATO gives access to Montenegrin territory and military for NATO without getting any of the 'goodies' in return.

And, yes, I know that you think that the EU is the fount of all that is good in the world, but the wheels are falling off right now.

[Volshe]

And, yes, I know that you think that the EU is the fount of all that is good in the world,

Not really, but it's beneficial for us

 but the wheels are falling off right now.

Well, unless the EU itself falls apart by the time we actually join, it will be good  We'd think of something else eventually, such as restoring Balkan Federation or something.

[AvHdB]

And, yes, I know that you think that the EU is the fount of all that is good in the world,

Not really, but it's beneficial for us

 but the wheels are falling off right now.

Well, unless the EU itself falls apart by the time we actually join, it will be good  We'd think of something else eventually, such as restoring Balkan Federation or something.

You could create a union with Kosovo, and Macedonia. That would be a down right intimate ménage à trois.

[Volshe]

And, yes, I know that you think that the EU is the fount of all that is good in the world,

Not really, but it's beneficial for us

 but the wheels are falling off right now.

Well, unless the EU itself falls apart by the time we actually join, it will be good  We'd think of something else eventually, such as restoring Balkan Federation or something.

You could create a union with Kosovo, and Macedonia. That would be a down right intimate ménage à trois.

All ex-Yu republics + Bulgaria + Greece, alternatively + Romania + Turkey. (Not sure about ex autonomous regions ie. Kosovo, i don't remember was it included in the initial plan  Never mind, the more - the merrier )

[andrewfi]

I have a theory (OK a hypothesis for those who know the difference).

I have written about this idea before.

In essence the 'world' believes that our civilization (and there s only one global civilization now) is engaged in a process of unification. So, we have seen families form tribes then becoming villages, which then form alliances ad started to make small nations, which then became larger nations and 'countries'. Then we have 'empires' which may simply be civilizations dominant in one part of the world or another. Alongside the empires we have trading blocs and unions where the powers and individuality of people and groups are subsumed into one much larger and less distinctive group (the EU being the premier and most developed example of this).

The eventual result being a kind of 'world government', yet to be attained, where all countries and states subsume their individuality to the much larger and less distinctive group. Like the United Nations but with the power to raise taxes and a complete, or almost complete monopoly on the use of force to enforce its demands. (Being the two defining features of a state)

My belief (theory, hypothesis) and that this is not a process with an end point, but rather it is a cycle. Each group tends to get larger and larger (ultimate size being dependent upon quality and speed of communication) but at the same time as the group gets larger and more inclusive from the top down, from the bottom up come forces that tend to break the group down.

For example, in the EU, we have the UK, where the individual countries forming the union of the British Isles (one of the earliest such unions) are seeking to devolve power back to the individual nations forming the union. At some point Scotland will follow Eire and possibly Wales too (if that is economically possible). At the same time the UK is considering leaving the Union - if that happens the pressure for further counties to leave will increase hugely - nobody wants to be the last guest at a dinner party!


How far down the devolution goes in any scenario I don't know. My intuition is that, on the whole, it goes as far as the dominant states that comprise the union, but some areas may go further. I look here at the British Empire, when we closed that down IIRC almost all the constituent countries remained whole, apart from India (where the constituent states were already strong and economically discrete anyway.

Basically, if I am right, then the EU does not have long to go. The centripetal pressures forcing disunion are becoming stronger then the ties that bind us. That's why Schengen is a important symbol of unity right now and why the tabled legislation and proposals to weaken Schengen are so important.

However, even as the EU breaks down other groups will see benefits in combining their individual strengths, indeed they are already doing so, the EEU is just the latest of these.
In the ashes of the EU is another grouping, just as with the British Empire that gave birth to the British Commonwealth, today simply called The Commonwealth.

[AvHdB]

Andrew,

I have had musings along the same lines.

Perhaps if you still have that option. Start a new thread using the foundation of what you wrote.

Av

[andrewfi]

Why might I NOT have the option to start a thread. However I don't know if I can be arsed to do so. I am the lazy man.

[AvHdB]

Why might I NOT have the option to start a thread. However I don't know if I can be arsed to do so. I am the lazy man.

On a lazy meandering river.

[Volshe]

In the ashes of the EU is another grouping, just as with the British Empire that gave birth to the British Commonwealth, today simply called The Commonwealth.

Interesting. I was listening to a Croatian analyst (on Cro natioanl tv, a serious guy) who said, despite everything UK actually lost WWII, was forced to withdraw from all its' areas of interest and that US went there instead. He also called US imperial power, but pointed out it's a dying one. I don't necessarily agree or disagree, it was just interesting to hear a very different take to the one we are usually hearing. (If i concentrate, i can probably remember what was the guy's name and look up quotations, tad too lazy for that right now.)
I remember when we studied Huntington at the academy, the world renowned professor who thought it to us kinda laughed at me for taking particular interest in the book (it used to be Tudjman's fave book he said  ) , back in 2004 his theory of 'clash of civilisations' was widely considered to be paranoid and a relic of the long gone past. Fast forward to current situations with refugees and i am not so sure it is so. Anyway it is, myself i tend to 'always look on the bright side of life'...