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Author Topic: Crimean Tatars  (Read 1133 times)

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Online Markje

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Crimean Tatars
« on: September 12, 2015, 03:16:40 AM »
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The Crimean Tatars will start to blockade the roads to stop the trade. Ukrainians should be aware that it is immoral to have dealings with the aggressor, Refat Chubarov said.

Ah , the Crimean Tatar leader who was booted from Crimea by the Russians for starting Riots (even in the Pre-Russian era) and who was denied a visa so he should stay in Ukraine. They dropped him off neatly at the Crimean/Ukrainian border.

According to Posters here he's lucky to be alive, as Crimean Tatars got murdered regularly, especially Tatar thought leaders.

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Online andrewfi

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Re: Crimean Tatars
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2015, 05:02:24 AM »
I love the use of 'the' in respect of " the leader of Crimean Tatars". Always when a bloke pops up who is useful for a new facet of a narrative he becomes 'the' rather than 'a'.

Although he is styled President of the Worldwide Congress of Crimean Tatars he does not in fact represent all or even most Tatars in Crimea.

Seems kind alike I could style myself Emperor of the Universal Nation Of Fi In Estonia. I'd represent nothing and the title would be meaningless, except when rolled out for agitprop purposes by my handlers.

"For what else is the life of man but a kind of play in which men in various costumes perform until the director motions them offstage?" -Erasmus

Online Markje

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Re: Crimean Tatars
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2015, 09:08:01 AM »

Although he is styled President of the Worldwide Congress of Crimean Tatars he does not in fact represent all or even most Tatars in Crimea.
He does not represent the Crimean Tatars, only the Tatars that are unhappy with "the" government, doesnt matter who, Russia, Ukraine, etc... as long as its not a "crimean tatar" government which will never happen.
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Online andrewfi

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Re: Crimean Tatars
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2015, 01:03:25 PM »
Exactly, yes.

The odd thing is that he is now such a willing tool of the Ukraine government, the same people who were responsible for some fairly unpleasant stuff against the Tatars in Crimea over the past 25 years. He is a bought and paid for tool.
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Online Tom Cat

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Re: Crimean Tatars
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2015, 07:49:40 PM »
Must have been a seedy bunch of characters that did this. :chuckle:
Armed Russian farmers pillage Donbas farmers

http://zik.ua/en/news/2015/09/13/armed_russian_farmers_pillage_donbas_farmers_624019
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Online msmoby

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Re: Crimean Tatars
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2015, 12:05:17 AM »

He does not represent the Crimean Tatars, only the Tatars that are unhappy with "the" government, doesnt matter who, Russia, Ukraine, etc... as long as its not a "crimean tatar" government which will never happen.

Never say never, Markje... If the offspring of the forcibly displaced Tatars of Crimea even got together and moved back and called for another 'referendum' ....


I'd be really interested to know about Andrewfi's  Tatars who were 'oppressed' under Ukrainian rule....backed up with solid evidence in the form of a reputable source - like a respected Human Rights organisation

Online Markje

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Re: Crimean Tatars
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2015, 03:09:39 AM »

He does not represent the Crimean Tatars, only the Tatars that are unhappy with "the" government, doesnt matter who, Russia, Ukraine, etc... as long as its not a "crimean tatar" government which will never happen.

Never say never, Markje... If the offspring of the forcibly displaced Tatars of Crimea even got together and moved back and called for another 'referendum' ....
They already did, over the last 20 years.

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I'd be really interested to know about Andrewfi's  Tatars who were 'oppressed' under Ukrainian rule....backed up with solid evidence in the form of a reputable source - like a respected Human Rights organisation
Thats easy, just look for articles on Crimea before Russia took over.

Tatars aren't liked in Crimea, never were and in fact, their situation got better since now Tatar is an official language in Crimea and government documents will be issued in Tatar language.

Tatars got a huge boon from Putin in many ways, but the local Population still shuns them like Western-Europe shuns the roma-gypsies.

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Re: Crimean Tatars
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2015, 08:49:14 AM »
Markje... it is a little sad when the planted ones treat those that were there first with such contempt... but this is not unique to Crimea.

I did look for evidence of oppressed Tatars before the 'change' .... google throws up plenty of negatives post March 2014.

I am certain that you are correct..in that there were instances .. but I also feel that you are underplaying the dismay and worry felt, now.



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Online Markje

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Re: Crimean Tatars
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2015, 08:55:48 AM »
Markje... it is a little sad when the planted ones treat those that were there first with such contempt... but this is not unique to Crimea.
Thats because of WW-II when they behaved like animals raping, pillaging and being very 'unfriendly' to the other part of the population. When WW-II ended, they had to be deported to avoid being lynched on the spot.

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Offline TomT

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Re: Crimean Tatars
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2015, 09:38:36 AM »
https://twitter.com/den_kazansky/status/643482566717276160

The DUB who tweeted this expects his audience to believe that a separatist ammunition truck exploded and didn't leave any truck parts strewn about the area. (The crater shown in the image is more likely from an incoming artillery shell from the government side.)
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Re: Crimean Tatars
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2015, 05:12:30 PM »
Seems Putin wants the rebels to go to Syria.

Rebels jumping ship on large scale, media reports say

http://zik.ua/en/news/2015/09/18/rebels_jumping_ship_on_large_scale_media_reports_say_625540
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Re: Crimean Tatars
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2015, 09:55:25 AM »
First the separatists and now regular troops refusing to go to Syria. :coffeeread:


Russian servicemen refuse to go to Syria, threatened with state treason

http://zik.ua/en/news/2015/09/20/russian_servicemen_refuse_to_go_to_syria_threatened_with_state_treason_626028
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Re: Crimean Tatars
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2015, 05:36:03 PM »
Someone needs to get their stories straight.
Two articles saying soldiers won't go to Syria.
Now 200 will be on their way. :chuckle:

200 Russian mercenaries to be deployed to Syria from Donbas

The ‘DON’ battalion of Russian mercenaries in Donbas has been given orders to send 190 of its servicemen to Russia, Dmytro Tymchuk, a well-informed journalists and Rada lawmaker, writes in Facebook Sept. 21.

From Russia, the group will be sent to Syria, he says. “Only some commanding officers and a group of snipers will remain in Donbas,” Tymchuk writeshttp://zik.ua/en/news/2015/09/21/200_russian_mercenaries_to_be_deployed_to_syria_from_donbas_626214
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Re: Crimean Tatars
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2015, 03:31:16 AM »

Markje... it is a little sad when the planted ones treat those that were there first with such contempt... but this is not unique to Crimea.

Thats because of WW-II when they behaved like animals raping, pillaging and being very 'unfriendly' to the other part of the population. When WW-II ended, they had to be deported to avoid being lynched on the spot.

Markje,

I just noticed that this post of yours seemingly had gone uncontested

Explain for us how 8 hero of the Soviet Union Medals were handed out to Crimean Tatars and Russia condemned Stalin's act  - pointing out that the vast majority of Tatars had found against the Nazis - despite Slav freedom fighters refusing to let them join.

Sadly, history shows us that even then - certain influential Slav 'heroes' were prepared to use the indigenous people for their own ends against the Nazi occupiers. YES, some Tatars sided with the Nazis against the 'long term occupier' from Moscow. But that was a tiny minority.


Please research Amet-khan Sultan or the antics of Slav freedom fighters

Online Markje

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Re: Crimean Tatars
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2015, 04:45:51 AM »

Markje... it is a little sad when the planted ones treat those that were there first with such contempt... but this is not unique to Crimea.

Thats because of WW-II when they behaved like animals raping, pillaging and being very 'unfriendly' to the other part of the population. When WW-II ended, they had to be deported to avoid being lynched on the spot.

Markje,

I just noticed that this post of yours seemingly had gone uncontested
Why must the truth always be contested with you?
Is there some personal agenda here, to always want to 'win' ?

So:

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Explain for us how 8 hero of the Soviet Union Medals were handed out to Crimean Tatars
Like I said, 10% DID fight for the Russians. (see upthread for my original comment on this)

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and Russia condemned Stalin's act
So what was Stalin to do, allow all Tatars be elimitated? That would have gotten some unwanted attention.

Also the NKVD exported ALL tatars in just 1 day, doesn't that sound like an 'urgent' problem to you? A whole population of nearly 1,000,000 people re-based in 1 day. thats speed for you!

If it was done out of spite, or malice, or whatever other reason you can think up , I doubt the NKVD would have such cooperation that this feat would be done in 1 day only, but keep on dreaming your dreams about tatar injustice, Is SC a tatar by any chance?

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  - pointing out that the vast majority of Tatars had found against the Nazis - despite Slav freedom fighters refusing to let them join.
I would rather also not have people fighting beside me that would also like to shoot me in the back when I am caught off-guard. Sane decision, and since 90% of them did join the Nazi's , it was a wise choice. The tatars could have decided to fight alone against the Nazi's.

Quote
Sadly, history shows us that even then - certain influential Slav 'heroes' were prepared to use the indigenous people for their own ends against the Nazi occupiers. YES, some Tatars sided with the Nazis against the 'long term occupier' from Moscow. But that was a tiny minority.
If you call 90% a tiny minority that is your prerogative, I'd call it 'almost all'.

Quote
Please research Amet-khan Sultan or the antics of Slav freedom fighters
No. I have read the western propaganda of 2012 , and they seem unanimous on the misbehaving Tatars in WW-2 , but the 2014+ propaganda seems to have buried this.

Luckily I have babushka, who lives there and knows first-hand how the Tatars 'helped' the Slavs defeat the nazi's.

She still looks at the Tatars the same as my uncle who 'helps' germans park their car (which end up damaged almost always if they aren't paying attention to what my uncle is doing).

Mark.
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