Exceptional: Why the World Needs a Powerful America

[Manny]

I bet that title surprised you coming from me! 

Shakey sent me a gift in the mail that arrived today.



My reading it is proof indeed that I have an open mind contrary to what some here think. 

[shakespear]

You just spoiled Andrewfi's surprise

 

[Manny]

Sorry, has he got one too? 

[Anteros]

Sorry, has he got one too? 

Will you actually read the entire book with an open mind?  I will be very impressed if you do!   

[shakespear]

Sorry, has he got one too? 

There's one on the way.  I don't know if he's received it yet.

Both are genuine autographed by me copies   

[Manny]

Will you actually read the entire book with an open mind?  I will be very impressed if you do!   

I can try. I am currently sawing my way through Mein Kampf years after I last did, so as that is heavy going, I shall break off for this one. 

[NS1]

My bet is you are reading it as much to see what it says as you are to make fun of
it, open mind HAHAHAHA

[Manny]

My bet is you are reading it as much to see what it says as you are to make fun of
it, open mind HAHAHAHA

Buy it and give us your review. 

[andrewfi]

One can approach with an open mind but the very purpose of the document is to persuade and thereby close the mind. The trick is to finish reading with a mind as open as it was before starting.

Unless Cheney has undergone a Damacene revelation there is unlikely to  be any earthshattering insight to be found. He is unlikely to have found a rapprochement with Obama and is pretty likely to be justifying his take on foreign policy during his time in high office.

Had either of the first two cases occurred then i doubt we would need a book to know about it.

[Manny]

Its quite interesting up to now actually. It walks the reader through history as Cheney sees it first, starting off with the founding fathers and the usual stuff about freedom and liberty, and he dwells on the relationship between the US and Europe in the second world war somewhat.

Reading through the lines you start to see the changes in attitude from what started out as good sound principles of freedom and liberty to what we see today (not sure he intended that to show through as clearly as it does). From what I deduced, it was somewhere between the end of the Vietnam war and the arrival of Carter as president the US started to become noticeably aggressive and interventionist abroad.

The book implies that Reagan was single handedly responsible for bringing down the Berlin wall with his Brandenburg speech. 

It is an interesting read up to now for the non-American as it offers an insight into *why* Americans think as they do.

More later. 

[andrewfi]

Yes, I look forward to giving it a go. Thanks Shakespear. As yet I have not received the document. Buggers will likely send me a notice that I have to go collect it and pay €1 VAT or something.

Given Cheney's position it is hardly surprising that he writes as he does - what is there to hide? Justify, yes, but hide - no. After all his is the correct position, yes?

[shakespear]

It is an interesting read up to now for the non-American as it offers an insight into *why* Americans think as they do.

That's EXACTLY why I sent it to you guys.  So you could gain a little insight.  Walk a mile in the other man's moccasins.

[shakespear]

Yes, I look forward to giving it a go. Thanks Shakespear. As yet I have not received the document. Buggers will likely send me a notice that I have to go collect it and pay €1 VAT or something.

Don't think so, I listed the value as $10US, but perhaps my signature adds additional value.   

[Anteros]

Its quite interesting up to now actually. It walks the reader through history as Cheney sees it first, starting off with the founding fathers and the usual stuff about freedom and liberty, and he dwells on the relationship between the US and Europe in the second world war somewhat.

Reading through the lines you start to see the changes in attitude from what started out as good sound principles of freedom and liberty to what we see today (not sure he intended that to show through as clearly as it does). From what I deduced, it was somewhere between the end of the Vietnam war and the arrival of Carter as president the US started to become noticeably aggressive and interventionist abroad.

The book implies that Reagan was single handedly responsible for bringing down the Berlin wall with his Brandenburg speech. 

It is an interesting read up to now for the non-American as it offers an insight into *why* Americans think as they do.

More later. 

Great review!  I'm very impressed not only that you are reading it but that you've grasped the details of how many Americans believe and feel about the World.  FWIW I am generally not a fan of Cheney due to his actions leading up the the Iraq war however I am a patriot so I identify with that portion.  Many Republicans I know don't like the Bush Jr./Cheney Presidency as it was not fiscally conservative nor do we care for too much NSA crap nor did we agree with the Iraq war once we saw that we were clearly deceived by the neo-cons, key word being con.

[Manny]

What is disappointing in a way is how he described the principles the US was founded on and its early development (I suppose we all knew them anyway but they are well presented therein). He describes a country that anyone would want to live in.

What I see as an outsider (and occasional visitor), is how far wide of that mark and those intended standards the US has become, both with actions abroad and the influence of big media and business on the masses and the political decision making. But that happens anywhere.

I had no opinion on Cheney one way or another, so I can read his opinions without any particular bias against the guy. He seems to have a dim view of Obama, but then again, so do most Americans. 

[Anteros]

What I see as an outsider (and occasional visitor), is how far wide of that mark and those intended standards the US has become, both with actions abroad and the influence of big media and business on the masses and the political decision making. But that happens anywhere.

I had no opinion on Cheney one way or another, so I can read his opinions without any particular bias against the guy. He seems to have a dim view of Obama, but then again, so do most Americans. 

Our media is about 95% unthinking left-wing fuzzy feel good BS which is precisely how Obama came to power.  However now a major portion of the population has finally woken up to how severely incompetent Obama is but not only this a large percentage (the 20% who normally does not vote) are disgusted with political insiders in general and this is why Ben Carson, Carly Fiorina and Donald Trump have all surged in the polls.  The indications IMO are that I have a decent chance of winning my bet with Shakespear, but more importantly to myself and others is that a Republican landslide like never before in the history of this country is coming in 2016.   

[shakespear]

I consider this a truth -

When America becomes less involved with world affairs, the "bad guys" in the world take that as a sign of weakness and expand their sphere of influence to the detriment of the world in general.  This is why the world NEEDS a powerful America and America needs a leader who is not afraid to use that power. 

I submit the book titled above as proof of this statement.

Andrewfi, did you ever receive your copy via Estonia mail?

[Manny]

I am finding untruths and flawed thinking already. The bloke is the Neocon of Neocons.

He seems scornful of any president who didn't want to bail into any country all guns blazing at the drop of a hat. He thinks the Iraq war was a terrific idea. Obama and Clinton have had scorn up to now. He seems to like the Bushes.

It started out well but seems to be going downhill with his train of thought......

[andrewfi]

No book yet.

By the way,  just  in case any here were under the impression that I am in favour of a weak USA I'd refer you to any number of posts I have written stating the contrary. I do believe that a single superpower is bad for the world, I absolutely believe that the US has spent many years abusing it's position. In addition I know that the period of dominance is coming to an end.

A multipolar world in which no single state can,  with impunity,  seek to violently advantage itself to the detriment of all others,  which can call tself 'exceptional' and use that as justification for genuinely evil acts is better than the current state of affairs.

I have also noted that the inevitable change will itself be painful, although the USA has a part to play in ameliorating that disruption - current evidence suggests that no such attitude is present or likely to emerge.

A world in which the US becomes a second rate economy is not what we need to see,  although,  sadly, that seems to be the end game of current US policy, albeit that thus is not the intended outcome.

The current world leaders do not,  I am sure, wish to see the demise of the US and,  to repeat, neither do I.

You guys need to sort out the corruption inherent in your machinery of state because it is that corruption that will be the undoing of the Land of the Free.

[andrewfi]

I yesterday I received a notification to go and pick the book up, thanks. I should get it early next week.

[Manny]

What is disappointing in a way is how he described the principles the US was founded on and its early development (I suppose we all knew them anyway but they are well presented therein). He describes a country that anyone would want to live in.

What I see as an outsider (and occasional visitor), is how far wide of that mark and those intended standards the US has become, both with actions abroad and the influence of big media and business on the masses and the political decision making. But that happens anywhere.

I had no opinion on Cheney one way or another, so I can read his opinions without any particular bias against the guy. He seems to have a dim view of Obama, but then again, so do most Americans. 

I've finished it now and, well, what to say.   

As I said above, it started out well.

Then it gives a scary insight into the neocon mind. Example: Indignation that Assad didn't step down as Obama "instructed" him to do. Really! 

About a third of it is taken up with quotes from other neocons to support his worldview, with some commentary in-between.

Then follows page after page of quotes from Obama with him trying to rip it to bits. The thing was, after reading Obama's stuff, I am actually starting to like the bloke. 

Then he launches into the real out there stuff: Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Guantanamo, etc were all *super* ideas and they should have gone much, much further. 

He thinks Russia is still the USSR, and must be hemmed in and castrated at any cost. He has similar views of China.

Then there is page after page of what he thinks the next president should do, which basically is rule the world and start World War 3 to do it.

It rounds off with a cuffy-style General Cheeseburger rant about "exceptional", greatest country in the world, apple pie on Sunday, blah blah. 

I can only say its great that this old duffer was put out to grass. If one who thinks like him gets in the Whitehouse, there will be world war for sure.

All in all it was a disturbing journey into a disturbing mindset. After reading it, I am surer than I ever was of the need to contain American aggression around the world and de-dollarise. I came out of it - unintentionally - with a new-found fondness for some of Obama's ideas.

Exceptional: Why the World Needs a Powerful America

Should read:

Dangerous: Why the World Doesn't Need a Powerful America

Many people on Amazon agree.

[Maxx]

All in all it was a disturbing journey into a disturbing mindset. After reading it, I am surer than I ever was of the need to contain American aggression around the world and de-dollarise. I came out of it - unintentionally - with a new-found fondness for some of Obama's ideas.

Please don't come to that conclusion. Obama is just another choice of poison. We need Trump who says he thinks he can get along with Putin. Two real men working things out.

[shakespear]

I've finished it now and, well, what to say.   

I didn't expect you would change your opinions.

I wanted you to read it so you might better understand how Americans perceive themselves and our perspective on foreign policy.

We perceive ourselves to be the "good guys" and we get flustered when we hear people in other democratic countries think otherwise.   

[Manny]

I wanted you to read it so you might better understand how Americans perceive themselves and our perspective on foreign policy.

We perceive ourselves to be the "good guys" and we get flustered when we hear people in other democratic countries think otherwise.

I suppose how many of you think like that is the question.

If killing leaders of other nations and bombing hospitals makes you good guys, then I'm a monkey's uncle.

[Anteros]

All in all it was a disturbing journey into a disturbing mindset. After reading it, I am surer than I ever was of the need to contain American aggression around the world and de-dollarise. I came out of it - unintentionally - with a new-found fondness for some of Obama's ideas.

Please don't come to that conclusion. Obama is just another choice of poison. We need Trump who says he thinks he can get along with Putin. Two real men working things out.

He only likes Obama now because of Obama's epic weakness, which has allowed Russia to do what they are doing.  Do you really think that Putin would be on the rampage he's on if we still had George Bush Jr. or someone like him?